I should probably have put more effort into explaining the experience, since this seems to be of importance to you and others. Perhaps I was selfish or lazy in not doing so. Maybe I could describe it in a way that convinced you that it was fitting whatever qualities you put into the word “enlightment”, maybe not. How would you like to me put it into words?jupiviv wrote:The question isn't whether it was real but what you think made it an enlightened experience. The way you describe it makes it seem like a primarily emotional affair with not much rational thought/philosophy going on.Ztoneberg wrote:If the fact that it was possible to exit this state (involuntarily) means that it was not the "real deal" according to your definition that is absolutely fine.
The way I and a few others on this board define it, enlightenment is more about applying a flawless understanding of reality to every nook and cranny of our lives than about going through what are commonly labelled as altered/"spiritual" experiences.
It had an incredibly intensive rational thought/philosophy part, that was what "triggered" it, and something that persisted throughout although also containing intensive states of emotions as well. I guess a crude way of describing it would be as finally (and unexpectedly) reaching an intellectual orgasm after 37 years of intellectual sexual intercourse. (Yes, imagine the blue balls).
At the time I had no idea what had happened because it didn't fit into my previous world view. But through research I've come to realize that it fits exactly with what is described as satori, awakening or enlightenment. I didn't look for it, it just happened. After it ended I went looking for an explanation, and found it. Does that make the sequence of events clearer?
I am aware that past (memory) comes before future (fantasy) and that neither are real (since there's only now). Of course the end didn't make the state enlightened, just like the final whistle of a football game is not the game.jupiviv wrote:Ztoneberg wrote:No the 17:th of june was when it ended, not when it started. We were in this state from the 15:th of june. For my wife it ended with bodily death, for me it ended from a combination of unexpected, and I'd say maximum amount of, physical, emotional and psychological trauma. Just wanted to clear that up.
I don't intend to disparage the personal significance that those events might hold for you and you have my condolences for your loss. But the fact that you went through such a tragedy immediately after entering that "state", whatever it was, doesn't make it enlightened.
The only reason I mentioned the end is that if it hadn't ended I wouldn't be here discussing it. There would be no point since I would still be in it. But either way, why is it important to you whether it was “real” or not? I'm just text on a screen to you. I appreciate the condolences and sympathy, but that's not why I am here. And I am in no need of sympathy, I do not consider myself unlucky or unhappy, quite the opposite. I am here because according to the site charter, this is where I am supposed to be.
The personal significance of the events are actually not significant at all. The reason I came here was because I realized the opposite, that they're not personal, they are universal.