GENIUS FORUMS

Dan Rowden wrote:Acually I was taking the piss, but nevermind......

Well without your magnifying glass....whats the point?

What's the point of anything?

hades wrote:So heres a pointer:

What's a pointer?

hades wrote:Its not the mind

What mind?

hades wrote:and its intellect,

Whos intellect?

hades wrote:nor is it the body

What body?

hades wrote:and its behavior.

Whos behavior?

Who's saying these things?

Who's asking these questions?

What's 2+2?

Am I here?

What...............

?

Dan Rowden wrote:What's the point of anything?

Up to you

Ok, I'll stop being glib for a moment and make my "point": one might well argue that there being no inherent self, no "you" there is therefore no attainment and no enlightenment to speak of. There is nothing that "possesses" such a thing. I'm not going to debate that, but simply observe that such a realisation does not just happen over a bowl of cornflakes. It is built on the careful use of concepts and mind-stuff. One cannot distinguish such a realisation from a mundane altered state without a sound conceptual basis from which to do so. Without that, the questions you pose and the reality they attempt to point to could just be complete nonsense.

Dan Rowden wrote:Ok, I'll stop being glib for a moment and make my "point": one might well argue that there being no inherent self, no "you" there is therefore no attainment and no enlightenment to speak of. There is nothing that "possesses" such a thing. I'm not going to debate that, but simply observe that such a realisation does not just happen over a bowl of cornflakes. It is built on the careful use of concepts and mind-stuff. One cannot distinguish such a realisation from a mundane altered state without a sound conceptual basis from which to do so. Without that, the questions you pose and the reality they attempt to point to could just be complete nonsense.

The need to distinguish doesn't arise.

Ok, so that essentially means you're not talking about anything at all. So many words for nothing.

Hades wrote:

DQ: So why did you start this thread and give those who are "close to enlightenment" a koan to meditate on?

H: Because the conditions were just right.

You thought the conditions were ripe to openly contradict your past beliefs?

DQ:I am merely imagining this thread?

H: Yes. As you imagine the various inferences you draw from my words.

Somehow, I don't think so, buddy.

DQ: The insincere and inauthentic thinking is coming straight from your brain. Instead of palming it off all the time, you need to own up to this reality and deal with it.

H: Who's brain?

Your brain. No one else's.

DQ: Then why did you say above: Those who don't want anything in particular, see what I point to instantly with no effort.

You're pointing again.

H: I try to point to the unpointable, and think the unthinkable so that some may see the futility in the idea of 'attaining' Enlightenment.

If that is the case, then why did you entitle this thread, "Some of you are close to Enlightenment"?

Indeed, why are you attempting to do what you previously declared is impossible to do in order to tell people who are close to enlightenment that enlightenment cannot be attained?

Does wisdom really consist of mangling together contradictions into an incoherent stew?

-

The title of the thread is ironic, obviously, you should have picked that up within seconds. You can call it a contradiction if you like, but I still hold the same view.

The pointer I used further indicates my previous view, that nothing you witness or think of, neither mind or the body, is the attainer of Enlightenment. Knowing this makes no difference either.

Truly, no one becomes enlightened.

No amount of reading sutras, collecting wisdom, or meditation will produce it. These habits may produce mental masturbation along with mental orgasms here and there...At which point people may call themselves wise or special. But this will pass, don't worry.

hades,

The title of the thread is ironic, obviously, you should have picked that up within seconds.

I thought it was stupidity, not irony, since according to your discussions earlier it seemed that you would have had to title it:

"All of you are identical with enlightenment"

Thanks for clearing up that you being idiotic, but ironic.

Trevor Salyzyn wrote:hades,

The title of the thread is ironic, obviously, you should have picked that up within seconds.

I thought it was stupidity, not irony, since according to your discussions earlier it seemed that you would have had to title it:

"All of you are identical with enlightenment"

Thanks for clearing up that you being idiotic, but ironic.

*Does the yapping motion with his hand*

Hades,

The title of the thread is ironic, obviously, you should have picked that up within seconds. You can call it a contradiction if you like, but I still hold the same view.

Which view is that? It is no longer possible to tell.

You are becoming skilled in evasion, which is a neat way to bamboozle people and play games on the internet. But it is only going to harm you in the long run.

No amount of reading sutras, collecting wisdom, or meditation will produce it. These habits may produce mental masturbation along with mental orgasms here and there...At which point people may call themselves wise or special. But this will pass, don't worry.

The fact that enlightenment eventually passes away (with death) isn't an argument against its reality. When a person climbs Mt Everest and surveys the view, his experience is very real. That he will soon climb down again makes no difference to that reality.

Similarly, when a person sees into his own nature, this seeing is real. The further question of whether this seeing, in the future, is going to be temporary or permanent makes no difference.

More importantly, seeing into one's nature takes one beyond time, beyond life and death. In a very real sense, one is transported to the very end of time and back. In the face of this, the question of whether or not this seeing will continue indefinitely into the future is irrelevant. That is simply the ego framing the question, not the soul.

-

The pointer I used further indicates my previous view, that nothing you witness or think of, neither mind or the body, is the attainer of Sexual Pleasure. Knowing this makes no difference either.

Truly, no one becomes sexually aroused.

No amount of reading Mills & Boon, collecting porn, or fantasising will produce it. These habits may produce physical masturbation along with physical orgasms here and there...At which point people may call themselves excited or satisfied. But this will pass, don't worry.

.

David Quinn wrote:
The fact that enlightenment eventually passes away (with death) isn't an argument against its reality. When a person climbs Mt Everest and surveys the view, his experience is very real. That he will soon climb down again makes no difference to that reality.

Thats the point, Enlightenment does not pass away, because it is not born. What you talk of is little enlightenment. A misnomer. Which can be a little mystical experience some people have, like you said, similar to climbing some mountain. Then it goes away, turns to a memory, and then fades into a dream. This is an orgasm of the mind. enlightenment... a lolipop.

More importantly, seeing into one's nature takes one beyond time, beyond life and death. In a very real sense, one is transported to the very end of time and back. In the face of this, the question of whether or not this seeing will continue indefinitely into the future is irrelevant. That is simply the ego framing the question, not the soul.

Your pseudo-enlightenment, can be put into the same category as having a mystical experience, getting high, having an orgasm, or climbing some mountain.
Which is fine, this is all nice and jolly!

But it has nothing to do with Enlightenment, the truly unconditional, the unborn state of being that is beyond concepts, experiences, categories, and death.

Funny how two people can use the same words and yet disagree. Must have something to do with the other words they use....

Dan Rowden wrote:Funny how two people can use the same words and yet disagree. Must have something to do with the other words they use....

Funny how your mom is so fat.

Leyla Shen wrote:The pointer I used further indicates my previous view, that nothing you witness or think of, neither mind or the body, is the attainer of Sexual Pleasure. Knowing this makes no difference either.

Truly, no one becomes sexually aroused.

No amount of reading Mills & Boon, collecting porn, or fantasising will produce it. These habits may produce physical masturbation along with physical orgasms here and there...At which point people may call themselves excited or satisfied. But this will pass, don't worry.

.

This is getting me aroused,


asl? ^_^

Yeah, it is, actually.

Hades said,

This is getting me aroused,

Uh-oh. Another incurable woman addict. What is this place coming to?

Sorry, guys. I tried, but I couldn't resist.

I was actually responding to Hades' statement: "Funny how your mom is so fat." but someone posted in between.

hades wrote: Your pseudo-enlightenment, can be put into the same category as having a mystical experience, getting high, having an orgasm, or climbing some mountain.
Which is fine, this is all nice and jolly!

But it has nothing to do with Enlightenment, the truly unconditional, the unborn state of being that is beyond concepts, experiences, categories, and death.

Hahah Hades!

Did you even go through the trouble of actually climbing any mountain at all? It seems you might not have left mum's house yet, or more likely: not left even her womb.

You think your understanding lies beyond death because you refuse to be born! Your almost incomprehensible baby-talk that one barely can hear through the womb's membrane, muffled as it is, mutters something about an 'unborn state' and big and small 'e'.

Sometimes one would wish for more birth control for sanity's sake!

Hades wrote:

DQ: The fact that enlightenment eventually passes away (with death) isn't an argument against its reality. When a person climbs Mt Everest and surveys the view, his experience is very real. That he will soon climb down again makes no difference to that reality.

H: Thats the point, Enlightenment does not pass away, because it is not born.

Again, that's Nature. No one uses the word "enlightenment" to mean Nature. Only you are doing that.

What you talk of is little enlightenment. A misnomer. Which can be a little mystical experience some people have, like you said, similar to climbing some mountain. Then it goes away, turns to a memory, and then fades into a dream. This is an orgasm of the mind. enlightenment... a lolipop.

That's altered states. What I mean by "enlightenment" is neither an altered state, nor Nature. It is undeluded consciousness which one can grow into. It is only temporary in the sense that it ends at death.

So between the two extremes of which you are conscious, lies a third one which you seem to have no inkling of, but it is where true wisdom dwells.

-