The Sexes
Re: The Sexes
No, he is just saying that the ego will create the subjective justification.
Is the greater good what your ego has learnt to be more beneficial to you or others or some combo thereof?
I think in relation to the future greater good for others is perhaps a zero sum game. Any good will incur unintended negative consequences.
For instance - Christian/leftie charity weakens everyone.
"Nietzsche's last man is tired of life, takes no risks, and seeks only comfort and security. The last man is the goal that European civilization has apparently set for itself. The lives of the last men are comfortable. There is no longer a distinction between ruler and ruled, let alone political exploitation. Social conflict is minimized.
Nietzsche said that the society of the last man would be too barren to support the growth of great individuals. The last man is possible only by mankind's having bred an apathetic creature who has no great passion or commitment, who is unable to dream, who merely earns his living and keeps warm. The last men claim to have discovered happiness, but blink every time they say so"
This quote reminds me of myself, and I blink, as I know it is not my true underlying masculine nature. In many ways he seems to be describing a post-peak evolution into Woman-ness. The quote is an accurate description of what women tend to seek and are, except in terms of materialism, and in such a world I doubt many would blink.
Really the only certain greater good can be your own greater "above-animal" consciousness by increasing your understanding of the nature of reality.
Is the greater good what your ego has learnt to be more beneficial to you or others or some combo thereof?
I think in relation to the future greater good for others is perhaps a zero sum game. Any good will incur unintended negative consequences.
For instance - Christian/leftie charity weakens everyone.
"Nietzsche's last man is tired of life, takes no risks, and seeks only comfort and security. The last man is the goal that European civilization has apparently set for itself. The lives of the last men are comfortable. There is no longer a distinction between ruler and ruled, let alone political exploitation. Social conflict is minimized.
Nietzsche said that the society of the last man would be too barren to support the growth of great individuals. The last man is possible only by mankind's having bred an apathetic creature who has no great passion or commitment, who is unable to dream, who merely earns his living and keeps warm. The last men claim to have discovered happiness, but blink every time they say so"
This quote reminds me of myself, and I blink, as I know it is not my true underlying masculine nature. In many ways he seems to be describing a post-peak evolution into Woman-ness. The quote is an accurate description of what women tend to seek and are, except in terms of materialism, and in such a world I doubt many would blink.
Really the only certain greater good can be your own greater "above-animal" consciousness by increasing your understanding of the nature of reality.
Last edited by Jamesh on Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: The Sexes
Thanks for that explanation.Jamesh wrote:No, he is just saying that the ego will create the subjective justification.
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Re: The Sexes
And the light goes on...Kunga wrote:Why do you say that ?Dan Rowden wrote:Violence is always justified.Kunga wrote:Yeah....sometimes violence can be justified.
Are you saying that violence is justified because it is the natural reaction of whatever provolked it ?
Yes.Do you think an adult beating a baby is justified ?
And the light goes back out...Just because a natural reaction (like thunder striking), is being caused, dosn't mean a human being is justified (for whatever reason),
for committing acts of violence, when he has the choice of controlling his actions....
I don't think violence is always justified. There is way too much unjustified, random, mindless acts of violence to comprehend.....
Re: The Sexes
Jamesh wrote:
Is the greater good what your ego has learnt to be more beneficial to you or others or some combo thereof?
What is good for the whole is good for me and vice versa ultimately, the whole is an extension of my ego.
I think in relation to the future greater good for others is perhaps a zero sum game. Any good will incur unintended negative consequences.
That doesn't mean that one shouldn't study or attempt for the best possible outcome.
Really the only certain greater good can be your own greater "above-animal" consciousness by increasing your understanding of the nature of reality.
I would agree.
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Re: The Sexes
Orenholt wrote:
We live in an age that celebrates the petty and the mundane. This situation works well for the “whole” by justifying their petty and mundane lives, but what of the individual who doesn’t share those same values? Are they to bow down and surrender to the whole to retain the status quo?What is good for the whole is good for me and vice versa ultimately, the whole is an extension of my ego.
Re: The Sexes
You cannot feed a child only candy.sue hindmarsh wrote:Orenholt wrote:We live in an age that celebrates the petty and the mundane. This situation works well for the “whole” by justifying their petty and mundane lives, but what of the individual who doesn’t share those same values? Are they to bow down and surrender to the whole to retain the status quo?What is good for the whole is good for me and vice versa ultimately, the whole is an extension of my ego.
Re: The Sexes
What is good in the eyes of the people is usually not what is actually good for the people.
Many will take that as anti-democratic arrogance, others, as wise compassion.
Many will take that as anti-democratic arrogance, others, as wise compassion.
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Re: The Sexes
Getoriks wrote:
Taking offence is a purely feminine trait. It comes from not being in touch with your own mind. When this is the case, anything can offend, and often does. No offence was done to Orenholt, but to protect her from some imagined threat - poof! - an offence appears. You can see how this psychology is very useful to woman, for anything that is said against woman appears to her as an offence, and in this way her innocence is retained.
"Nearly offended" is a strange term. Can someone really be 'nearly' offended? Offended or not offended - yes, but nearly...I actually think it was brave and masculine of Orenholt to admit that she was nearly offended.
Taking offence is a purely feminine trait. It comes from not being in touch with your own mind. When this is the case, anything can offend, and often does. No offence was done to Orenholt, but to protect her from some imagined threat - poof! - an offence appears. You can see how this psychology is very useful to woman, for anything that is said against woman appears to her as an offence, and in this way her innocence is retained.
I wish Orenholt the best with her development. Growth and maturity can take a long time, or it can happen in a moment, the idea is to be ever ready. Opening your mind, along with considering your thoughts prepares the ground for that development.I think she is actually trying to understand the psychology of why she became nearly offended, so that she can overcome it. You cannot overcome something by simply stopping all thinking of it -- that is not transcendence or growth or maturity, but simple blocking out or ignorance or unconsciousness.
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Re: The Sexes
Orenholt's 'affectivity' or passionate desire to fix or have things fixed is interrogated.
Sue,
how is this,
Sue,
how is this,
not coming from a sentimental place.I wish Orenholt the best with her development.
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Re: The Sexes
"The best" is all there ever is, so you could describe my wishes as redundant.
Orenholt's expressed need to have woman respected because, as a woman that would be nicer for her, isn’t to my mind her being very exploratory. Though it matters little at what way she approaches this subject, for the truth of the matter will always be the same: respect for woman is impossible.
Orenholt's expressed need to have woman respected because, as a woman that would be nicer for her, isn’t to my mind her being very exploratory. Though it matters little at what way she approaches this subject, for the truth of the matter will always be the same: respect for woman is impossible.
Re: The Sexes
Kunga wrote: Do you think an adult beating a baby is justified ?
Dan Rowden wrote:Yes.
Please explain.
I have a real hard time comprehending henious crimes & such. It's THE reason I gave up my belief in a creator God.
Re: The Sexes
It's not merely about some imagined "innocence" it's about my perception of the truth.sue hindmarsh wrote: Taking offence is a purely feminine trait. It comes from not being in touch with your own mind. When this is the case, anything can offend, and often does. No offence was done to Orenholt, but to protect her from some imagined threat - poof! - an offence appears. You can see how this psychology is very useful to woman, for anything that is said against woman appears to her as an offence, and in this way her innocence is retained.
If I think that I am a good person then of course I will react negatively toward the untruth of something bad being said about me.
If I think that I am a bad person then I will react neutrally toward something bad being said about me and I may even agree.
Are you saying that respect for biological females is impossible or are you saying that the effigy of woman is impossible to respect?sue hindmarsh wrote: respect for woman is impossible.
Also, you did not reply to my post on why it's inaccurate to name this effigy "woman".
And in addition to being merely "inaccurate", it's UNTRUTHFUL.Orenholt wrote:I don't mind some women being called unconscious, because some in fact are, but to make the word "woman" itself which already encompasses a certain group of people synonymous with unconsciousness when it doesn't apply to everyone within that group and actually applies to some people outside of the group is inaccurate.sue hindmarsh wrote:That's good. Now that you've got out of your own way we could discuss some of the issues you have with women being described as 'Woman'. Where do you want to start?
Who said that a creator god has to be good?Kunga wrote:
Please explain.
I have a real hard time comprehending henious crimes & such. It's THE reason I gave up my belief in a creator God.
Re: The Sexes
Well...that was my initial impression as a child. The "Father" in heaven that loves all his children b.s.Orenholt wrote:Who said that a creator god has to be good?
Then my views as a teen changed, as I realized it wasn't a loving God anymore....but one that must not care...the absent parent....
Then finally as an adult, I realized there couldn't possibly be a God, with all the incomprehensible, horrific shit that life dishes out.
Finally... the realization of the inseperable condition of the Universe....
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Re: The Sexes
Sue,
I wouldn't say a sage isn't making contact without experiencing emotion.
I would say afflictive emotions aren't present and felt experiences of serenity are.
A personality streaming from a wildly fluctuating emotional basis looks like an ameoba expanding and contracting according to the conditions.
puffing up and shrinking from moment to moment.
Fair enough."The best" is all there ever is, so you could describe my wishes as redundant.
Orenholt's expressed need to have woman respected because, as a woman that would be nicer for her, isn’t to my mind her being very exploratory. Though it matters little at what way she approaches this subject, for the truth of the matter will always be the same: respect for woman is impossible.
I wouldn't say a sage isn't making contact without experiencing emotion.
I would say afflictive emotions aren't present and felt experiences of serenity are.
A personality streaming from a wildly fluctuating emotional basis looks like an ameoba expanding and contracting according to the conditions.
puffing up and shrinking from moment to moment.
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Re: The Sexes
All actions are justified by the doer, violent or not. "Unjustified violence" is basically a silly term. What we mean is we don't agree with or accept the justification given for any particular act. What makes your justifications better than anyone else's? That's the question. That's where this has been heading.Kunga wrote:Kunga wrote: Do you think an adult beating a baby is justified ?Please explain.Dan Rowden wrote:Yes.
I have a real hard time comprehending henious crimes & such. It's THE reason I gave up my belief in a creator God.
Re: The Sexes
Dan Rowden wrote:All actions are justified by the doer, violent or not. "Unjustified violence" is basically a silly term. What we mean is we don't agree with or accept the justification given for any particular act. What makes your justifications better than anyone else's? That's the question. That's where this has been heading.Kunga wrote:Kunga wrote: Do you think an adult beating a baby is justified ?Please explain.Dan Rowden wrote:Yes.
I have a real hard time comprehending henious crimes & such. It's THE reason I gave up my belief in a creator God.
Don't you think being rational and logical, let alone compassionate, is reason enough to make a correct assessment of any situation and act accordingly ?
The doer could be a psychopath. Would you want a psychopath to make all your decisions for you or someone with a rational/logical mind ?
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Re: The Sexes
I may think so, yes, but I'm asking on what grounds I, or you, might assert that to another. What makes our values better than theirs? Just because it's us? I mean, in my case that works because I'm special and everything, but ...
Re: The Sexes
On the grounds that a psychopaths', or emotionally unstable persons' judgement to beat a baby, is wrong,Dan Rowden wrote:I may think so, yes, but I'm asking on what grounds I, or you, might assert that to another. What makes our values better than theirs? Just because it's us? I mean, in my case that works because I'm special and everything, but ...
As opposed to a sane, stable, rational,person judgement of the situation, would be to unharm a helpless being in their care
In other words, being rational and logical is correct behavior and irrational and illogical is incorrect behavior.
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Re: The Sexes
What makes rationality better than irrationality? How about we admit at this point that it's simply what we prefer and stop imagining there's an objective basis from which to argue such a preference? I say that because there simply isn't one.
Re: The Sexes
What about utilitarianism? The greatest good for the largest quantity.Dan Rowden wrote:What makes rationality better than irrationality? How about we admit at this point that it's simply what we prefer and stop imagining there's an objective basis from which to argue such a preference? I say that because there simply isn't one.
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Re: The Sexes
What about it? It's a preference like any other; a view, a perspective. Sometimes it makes sense (especially to the herdly) and other times it's totally destructive to the individual.
Re: The Sexes
But if it's REALLY the greatest good for the largest quantity wouldn't it necessarily been good for all in an ultimate sense?Dan Rowden wrote:What about it? It's a preference like any other; a view, a perspective. Sometimes it makes sense (especially to the herdly) and other times it's totally destructive to the individual.
And I know you can say something like "if you sacrifice a child for the entertainment of the masses they will be happy" but if we're looking for the GREATEST good it would not involve that and find an alternative.
Re: The Sexes
Dan Rowden wrote:What makes rationality better than irrationality? How about we admit at this point that it's simply what we prefer and stop imagining there's an objective basis from which to argue such a preference? I say that because there simply isn't one.
Would you want your brain surgery done by someone that was a self-taught moron ?
Or a experienced,intelligent, well renouned Brain Surgeon, who went to medical school ?
Re: The Sexes
He's obviously going to pick the renown brain surgeon unless he's totally suicidal.Kunga wrote:Dan Rowden wrote:What makes rationality better than irrationality? How about we admit at this point that it's simply what we prefer and stop imagining there's an objective basis from which to argue such a preference? I say that because there simply isn't one.
Would you want your brain surgery done by someone that was a self-taught moron ?
Or a experienced,intelligent, well renouned Brain Surgeon, who went to medical school ?
I think what he's really saying is that what one person considers "rational" another will not and it simply comes down to a matter of preference.