Discussing Reality is just as pointless as it is overrated

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.

Discussing Reality is just as pointless as it is overrated

Postby deathnotewithurname » Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:05 am

The more I read on these series of links, I seem to notice the common theme of "whatever" and how it's related to reality, and I have to ask myself...how I can prevent any of these people from ever serving on a jury. Just the fact that reality is such a hot topic worries me, because reality is nothing but ones perception of events. Now I realize that obviously, this "reality" effects our world constantly, but I would feel more secure in knowing that other persons who are analytically inclined, would make an effort to understand actuality. Actuality, basically what is really going on without personal issues coloring our reality of it, and how it all interacts with our world.
[size=150]It is what it is.size]
User avatar
deathnotewithurname
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:39 pm
Location: Federal Way, Washington

Re: Discussing Reality is just as pointless as it is overrated

Postby Trevor Salyzyn » Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:38 am

dnwun, this should probably be in the main forum, but anyway:
I have to ask myself...how I can prevent any of these people from ever serving on a jury.

Would you prefer to be judged by people who avoid thinking?

Just the fact that reality is such a hot topic worries me, because reality is nothing but ones perception of events.

Are you sure?

Now I realize that obviously, this "reality" effects our world constantly, but I would feel more secure in knowing that other persons who are analytically inclined, would make an effort to understand actuality.

Why did you make this distinction between reality and actuality? Are you sure that when people talk about reality, they aren't talking about actuality?

Actuality, basically what is really going on without personal issues coloring our reality of it, and how it all interacts with our world.

I see. You use the word "actuality" to argue an externalist view, and the word "reality" to simultaneously argue an internalist view. You do know, these views are incompatible. Playing with language doesn't change that: reality and actuality are the same.

Maybe you find it pointless to argue these things, but I'd rather be able to notice inconsistencies and uncertainties in your four sentences than not.
A mindful man needs few words.
User avatar
Trevor Salyzyn
 
Posts: 2397
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:52 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Discussing Reality is just as pointless as it is overrated

Postby Ryan Rudolph » Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:06 am

Discussing reality without any substance is indeed pointless, but if it is done correctly, it is the highest form of intellectual communication possible.

First of all, one must ask, what is meant by reality? In my opinion, to discuss 'reality' is to discuss the psychological and biological cognitive pitfalls that prevent one from seeing and thinking about reality in a clear, sane and rational manner.

Reality is essentially how we think about it, so reality is constructed by the mind. It is human thought that constructs the reality in which we live, so in order to find reality, we must have sound definitions, and a sound foundation to stand on. For instance: what people believe is worthwhile to pursue will affect if they have any relationship with reality or not. So ones well thought out moral values and abstract definitions are essential as a means to come up with solid conclusions and judgments as to what a logical life and logical mind consists of.

And such an attainment is the highest in my view
User avatar
Ryan Rudolph
 
Posts: 2489
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:32 am
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Re: Discussing Reality is just as pointless as it is overrated

Postby deathnotewithurname » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:03 pm

I'm not sure where this fits, and forgive me for not articulating very well, but I will try my best. I will admit that I do need help, so if anyone cares to do so, then please be my guest.

I am working under these rules:
1.A=A
2.The truth can be changed.
3. The only truth that cannot be changed is that we exist and then we die.

Ok, so god is everything and everyone, and everything and everyone is in turn god. And the existence of a person, when looked at as a drop of water has a ripple effect. The people immediately affected by this person's existence incorporate them into their reality, reacting to this person's actions accordingly. The actions resulting from the original action, create situations that didn't previously exist in the reality of the people they are effecting. So their truth was changed.

And this is where I start having trouble...

To the people now being effected, the original person does not exist as a part of their reality.

This is where I get stuck. I mean we are all interconnected. Can anyone really deny that just one's mere presence causes minute shifts in reality? The reactions to our actions that our so far removed from us that we are unaware of them, cause people to change their actions and at some point their actions in turn effect us.

Suddenly our reality is shifted, forcing an action. LoL I'm not sure, almost like the consequences of our actions so far removed from us could be construed by another as an act of God...

OUCH! Headache...
[size=150]It is what it is.size]
User avatar
deathnotewithurname
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:39 pm
Location: Federal Way, Washington

Re: Discussing Reality is just as pointless as it is overrated

Postby Steven Coyle » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:35 pm

Being able to consciously break apart and piece together the interconnectedness is a good start, via individual 'causality networks.'
Steven Coyle
 

Re: Discussing Reality is just as pointless as it is overrated

Postby Trevor Salyzyn » Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:27 am

deathnote,

The words "existence" and "reality" seem to change in meaning quite a bit.

When someone "exists and then dies", for instance, exists has a different meaning than in "the original person does not exist as a part of their reality." In the former, it means "lives"; in the latter, it means something far more abstract.

Also, reality has a dual meaning. Sometimes reality is a unique possession of one person ("their reality"), and in another it is larger and more inclusive ("shifts in reality").

These different definitions come from, as I said earlier, two conflicting views. In one, a person only exists to himself as long as he lives, and reality is not objective. In the other, there is some kind of static reality where things exist independently of people. As far as I can tell, your conflict is caused by trying to hold both these views as true. At some point, you will have to choose which is more likely... reality is strictly personal and internal, or reality transcends you, existing externally.

One thing about philosophy is that for every view, someone else has argued the opposite. It is not possible to believe both.
A mindful man needs few words.
User avatar
Trevor Salyzyn
 
Posts: 2397
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:52 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Discussing Reality is just as pointless as it is overrated

Postby deathnotewithurname » Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:11 am

Well I really don't like the word reality, but for myself, I would say that reality is a person's perception of what happens in the world. So, I would say that what happens in the world is actuality; facts or events that will not change no matter what.

Reality seems to be defined by each individuals morals, prejudices, mood and personality. Specifically, A depressed person will literally see the world in muted colors, where a person not depressed will not. Or how some days the time passes faster than on others.

I think what I am trying to grasp is the concept that one's reality causes one to act in a way that will effect another person's actuality, thus their reality.

Does that make sense? On second glance, I think this is my original post just cleaned up a bit. LoL

Awareness of, and striving to continuously live in actuality, while being able to treat one's own reality objectively is a goal of mine. I believe if this is possible, one would begin to shed the entrapment of society, the value system that is established in childhood and reinforced throughout life.

A person's reality allows for the perception of "All of a sudden...", while actuality does not. One would be acutely aware of the subtle signs that forecast an action, and be more prepared for to react accordingly.
Last edited by deathnotewithurname on Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
[size=150]It is what it is.size]
User avatar
deathnotewithurname
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:39 pm
Location: Federal Way, Washington

Re: Discussing Reality is just as pointless as it is overrated

Postby Trevor Salyzyn » Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:54 am

I still see the same double-use in the word "actuality".

1) "I would say that what happens in the world is actuality; facts or events that will not change no matter what."
2) "effect another person's actuality, thus their reality."

In the first one, actuality is an abstract state of affairs. In the second, it is something that someone possesses. Just from the grammatical change, I can tell that you are struggling with whether or not there is an objective reality at all.

So, can you prove that anything exists other than yourself?
A mindful man needs few words.
User avatar
Trevor Salyzyn
 
Posts: 2397
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:52 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Discussing Reality is just as pointless as it is overrated

Postby deathnotewithurname » Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:07 pm

I apologize for the lack of clarity. This forum is the only time I have ever attempted to articulate my thoughts.
[size=150]It is what it is.size]
User avatar
deathnotewithurname
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:39 pm
Location: Federal Way, Washington

Re: Discussing Reality is just as pointless as it is overrated

Postby Trevor Salyzyn » Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:48 pm

Well, I'm trying to help. Just keep writing stuff. I'm gradually getting a picture of the problem, and putting in my two cents as to where I think you could add some focus. I think when you can express it clearly, you'll have a good idea of what the answer is.

I'm thinking of tossing in the word "solipsism" as a philosophic position you might want to look into.
A mindful man needs few words.
User avatar
Trevor Salyzyn
 
Posts: 2397
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:52 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Discussing Reality is just as pointless as it is overrated

Postby deathnotewithurname » Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:05 am

Cool! I see how you might want to throw that at me, and thanks! I am gonna need to read up on it a little more before I can really make any kind of...mental shift...?

But I do have a problem with this...
the solipsist can attach no meaning to the supposition that there could be thoughts, experiences, and emotions other than his own. In short, the true solipsist understands the word "pain," for example, to mean "my pain." He cannot accordingly conceive how this word is to be applied in any sense other than this exclusively egocentric one.


I really do understand the pain of others, and recently had to train myself to say the word no. My own brother abused my kindness to the tune of 8 grand. I'm developing an idea, but I need to think on it a little more. Keep and eye out because I would like your opinion.
[size=150]It is what it is.size]
User avatar
deathnotewithurname
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:39 pm
Location: Federal Way, Washington

Re: Discussing Reality is just as pointless as it is overrated

Postby Carl G » Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:46 am

Right on!

________________________
[duh=89]I'm a doofus.duh]
User avatar
Carl G
 
Posts: 2659
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: Discussing Reality is just as pointless as it is overrated

Postby Shahrazad » Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:47 am

I like your signature, Carl. And where have you been?
User avatar
Shahrazad
 
Posts: 1813
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 7:03 pm

Re: Discussing Reality is just as pointless as it is overrated

Postby BMcGilly07 » Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:15 pm

Is there some way to prevent autobot spammers from registering here? Maybe after they sign up send a verification image in wavy letters telling them to post in the welcoming thread using a certain subject that is different for each subscriber and inside the distorted image.

Just seems there's a better way to avoid these spammers.
User avatar
BMcGilly07
 
Posts: 280
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:33 pm

Re: Discussing Reality is just as pointless as it is overrated

Postby Dan Rowden » Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:46 pm

The new breed of spammer is not a bot, but a real person, so the captcha system doesn't stop them. All we can do is delete them when they post; though, you can recognize many of them before they do so by noting the web address they put in their profiles - assuming you're paying attention to that sort of thing.
User avatar
Dan Rowden
 
Posts: 5463
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 8:03 pm

Re: Discussing Reality is just as pointless as it is overrated

Postby BMcGilly07 » Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:15 pm

Dan Rowden wrote:The new breed of spammer is not a bot, but a real person, so the captcha system doesn't stop them. All we can do is delete them when they post; though, you can recognize many of them before they do so by noting the web address they put in their profiles - assuming you're paying attention to that sort of thing.


In an ideal world they'd fade away when the fruits of their efforts remained unrealized because the modicum of intelligence of the average person was such that he would never fall for such a blatant spam. But then there wouldn't be any commercials either, and the Nigerians would all starve.
User avatar
BMcGilly07
 
Posts: 280
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:33 pm

Re: Discussing Reality is just as pointless as it is overrated

Postby Dan Rowden » Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:26 pm

Many of these new breed spammers come from specific nations. China is one of them. You know how it is - for every one of them you manage to dissuade, there's a billion more!
User avatar
Dan Rowden
 
Posts: 5463
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 8:03 pm

Re: Discussing Reality is just as pointless as it is overrated

Postby Unidian » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:33 pm

Discussing Reality is just as pointless as it is overrated

And yet, here you are doing it.
I live in a tub.
User avatar
Unidian
 
Posts: 1843
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:00 pm

Re: Discussing Reality is just as pointless as it is overrated

Postby |read| » Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:58 pm

But is he only doing it a little bit now to prevent it being done a lot more in the future? In which case, he has nonetheless contradicted his thesis: clearly, it's less pointless than it is overrated. :p
User avatar
|read|
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:16 pm

Re: Discussing Reality is just as pointless as it is overrated

Postby Dan Rowden » Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:22 pm

Hey |read|,

Still working in a sex shop?
User avatar
Dan Rowden
 
Posts: 5463
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 8:03 pm

Re: Discussing Reality is just as pointless as it is overrated

Postby |read| » Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:32 pm

I think you've confused me with one-time philosophy-forum regular MKULTRA, and if so, I'm flattered - he's smart guy. How you doing?
User avatar
|read|
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:16 pm

Re: Discussing Reality is just as pointless as it is overrated

Postby IJesusChrist » Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:17 am

People as a whole recognize objects. People as a whole want reality to be something.

They are in reality, but try to put it into a box, while staying outside the box. It's impossible both metaphorically and... in reality.

It will happen forever, because the fishy cannot understand the sea if she never leaves.
To think or not to think.
IJesusChrist
 
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:42 am

Re: Discussing Reality is just as pointless as it is overrated

Postby Pincho Paxton » Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:04 pm

Would you trust someone in a Jury who believes in God? That's my question. I mean, it is the most ridiculous thing to believe in, and is as far away from reality as you can get.
User avatar
Pincho Paxton
 
Posts: 1305
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:05 am

Re: Discussing Reality is just as pointless as it is overrat

Postby paco » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:15 am

Steven Coyle wrote:Being able to consciously break apart and piece together the interconnectedness is a good start, via individual 'causality networks.'


Gosh.

What ever happened?
I am illiterate[code][/code]
paco
 
Posts: 247
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:57 pm

Re: Discussing Reality is just as pointless as it is overrat

Postby mensa-maniac » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:19 am

deathnotewithurname wrote:The more I read on these series of links, I seem to notice the common theme of "whatever" and how it's related to reality, and I have to ask myself...how I can prevent any of these people from ever serving on a jury. Just the fact that reality is such a hot topic worries me, because reality is nothing but ones perception of events. Now I realize that obviously, this "reality" effects our world constantly, but I would feel more secure in knowing that other persons who are analytically inclined, would make an effort to understand actuality. Actuality, basically what is really going on without personal issues coloring our reality of it, and how it all interacts with our world.


Mensa says: I appreciate your expression. Reality is life as humanity individually sees it, we live life then we all die. That's reality, that's what humanity has in common, we all live unequal lives, and die our human life.
mensa-maniac
 

Next

Return to GENIUS FORUM

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest