Quote:<hr> It seems you posit some clarity and vision that must be gotten from the mind that is not this(clear and with vision). So if this mind is not clear as you posit and as yours must have been once,,, then what I am asking is how can you know you are clear about Enlightenment? <hr>
Enlightenment itself provides this clarity. It is like turning on a light in a room after spending all your life in darkness. And it is via this light that you can determine that you are indeed enlightened.
Quote:<hr> As for you helping others to follow their own path this idea makes me smile. A path is a groove and can not lead to anything living. A path leads to a know thing, a dead thing and it seems that you have charged yourself with choosing what is best for others. Maybe this waking others up is useless and harmful to them. I wonder if you have asked if you are not doing it all for little old you and that Ego. <hr>
I have examined myself more thoroughly than you can possibly imagine.
The path to enlightenment is simply the path of clearing away delusion. People are free to reject this path if they want to, but they would only be kidding themselves if they thought that they were retaining a connection to truth and rationality.
Quote:<hr> DQ: "When I started taking philosophy seriously, I had no idea whether enlightenment existed or not, which is no surprise since I was still in a state of ignorance. Other people said it existed, which excited my interest, and I was dissatisfied with my ignorance enough to want to investigate it thoroughly."
NS: I think that is what I was saying. You could not have had any idea about it until some fool told you about it, as with everything else you claim to know. <hr>
Your entire critisism is premised on an article of blind faith - namely, that enlightenment is non-existent and that anyone who values it is a fool. I think you need to reexamine this culturally inhereted blind belief.
Quote:<hr> I will ask you again in a little different way. How could you, being in the state you claim you and others must have come from, how is it that you can be trusted first of all to choose and then to believe or ascertain that this idea that you must have been given was real.<hr>
It is basically a matter of chance. The person who starts off seeking the highest enlightenment initially has no idea where this enlightenment is or what it might consist of. At this point, he might stumble upon the right path or he might not - it all depends on the books he reads, the people he meets, the experiences he has, the quality of his reasoning, his level of insight, etc. If he does happen to stumble upon the right path, then his reasoning and his consciousness will gradually take over and he can begin to zero in on enlightenment in the same way that a smart bomb zeros in on a designated target. It no longer becomes a game of chance.
Quote:<hr> I wonder if you have ever really asked what it is that has you seeking this idea provided by the people who made the world what it is and the very ones who must have also played this cruel game on you of making you deluded and blind and now claim to use the same process to help you to escape it with a new idea supplied from the same source. It seems that many facts do not escape your grasp but this one surely has. Enlightenment is, was and never can be your idea so you are not on your path nor could you ever be. <hr>
I hate to be blunt, but it is evident that you have a limited understanding of what enlightenment is. Again, enlightenment is simply freedom from delusion and false thought. If you wish to call this a foolish path, then I am more than happy to be labelled a fool. It is far better than operating on blind faith, however, as you are currently doing.