I don't "understand" it at all. I live it.
I have no doubts about that; reason being, that I can understand
what you exactly mean
Things can be understood, because their meaningful existence as things is dependent being distinguished from other things in ways that are useful to us.
Sure, and what the pointing may achieve is not useful?
In other words, our minds chop up and label in various ways and for various purposes. That is what thought is all about.
I donâ€™t agree. Our mind chops up nothing; it is the sense of the already chopped (the finite) that which is the â€œmindâ€ itself. Can you see that in a way you are implying the same thing asâ€¦. Let me find itâ€¦.. here it is...
â€œIt is generally agreed that idealism, on the other hand, suffers from even more grevious problems, none of which we will be able to give adequate treatment here. However, we might touch upon the most serious problems by asking "If all things reduce to mental constructs, what is the nature of the consciousness which gives rise to them?" All attempts to define "mind" meaningfully at this level of abstraction end in the appearance of another nebulous sort of "nothingness" not much different from the ultimate void of materialism, or else they require that we posit a "supreme being" of a conscious sort - i.e. "God." â€œ
â€˜Chopping upâ€™ essentially means the same as â€˜mental constructâ€™, which means that the finite is not really there.
However, the whole of existence is not a thing because there is nothing outside itself to distinguish it against.
Absolutely. The following is perfectly clear to meâ€¦"An infinite whole cannot possess finite qualities in and of itself. It may contain or encompass finite aspects within itself, but when taken as a totality, no finite qualities can be assigned to it. As a result, the only form which existence can take (in the ultimate sense) is the form of pure potential. Potential, unrealized, is infinite by nature - it is all possibilities with no defined outcomes. This unlimited potential, by necessity, brings about the constant change in form and structure we observe around us. This occurs due to the fact that the infinite must produce finite manifestations (such as our universe and its myriad forms), for if it were not so, there would be no true potential. Potential must be capable of actualizing, or it is not potential at all. If the ultimate sense of existence does not consist of pure potential, it consists of nothing at all, which constitutes non-existence, a violation of the second existential principle [establishing that non-existence cannot, by definition, exist]. Therefore, existence in the ultimate sense is not physical (for 'potential' is the opposite of 'actual'), but physicality must necessarily flow from it. This can be somewhat difficult to understand at first glance, but with due contemplation, the meaning becomes clear. The nature of existence is, by necessity, such that the infinite will always produce finite (physical) manifestations which are subject to the overriding principle of physicality, which can best be described as 'constant change.' This principle is most fundamental because if the finite (physical) were not subject to change, it would posess a quality of infinity and could no longer be called finite at all."
Therefore, â€¦â€¦â€¦it cannot be understood through thought. It can be experienced and pointed to, â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦but not conceptualized in an "Absolute" sense.
Do you not understand what the passage means that you have to add a â€˜thereforeâ€™? It was actually quite alright up until then.(did you write the above passage? Or is it someone else?) Do you not have the understanding of that particular knowledge? Is it not that understanding of that particular knowledge that you are living?
Forget the â€˜but not conceptualized in an â€œAbsolute senseâ€ â€˜ part. That is exactly what people keep grasping at â€“ Ultimate Absoluteness â€“ where there is none at all on the level of totality, existence, or infinity as describe in above. Our very ordinary sense can grasp that piece of knowledge without any introduction of Tao, emptiness, nothingness, etc., etc. Infinity and finite are more than enough to understand it, and they too are necessarily dependant on each other. Hence even â€œInfinityâ€ is not an absolute on its own in any sense. Nor does it actually â€œcreateâ€ the finite. They are necessarily dependant on each other, and neither â€œcreatesâ€ either in actuality. The finiteness in and of Infinity, IS Infinity itself. Carry water chop wood. End of story.
I tried to get at some of this in the show.
Good, it may help those that do not understand
, and want to understand
, through what you are trying to point
to; which in my opinion needs an understanding
of that which you are trying to point
in the first place. Otherwise youâ€™re pointing to meaninglessness, absolutely nothing at all.
We are simply complicating things with the introductions of un-conceptualizable â€œconceptsâ€ like Tao and such, whereas it is really quite simple, and all that it needs is clarity of thought, which comes gradually as understandings sink in as realizations. The same thing that has happened to You.
How one reaches such clarities does not really matter, but in my opinion, use of Buddhist terms complicate things further. And IF that rather simplifies, then we should have had Buddhas and enlightened people on every street corner.
You yourself admitted, that you have hardly met a single person who might embody the ideal you thing is necessary to reach perfection, so how much has the Tao and such really helped? How can there be a perfection in and of a finite thing, in and of infinity, when they both essentially depend on each other.
We can only see the unity in the dependency
only, and that too through thought, but that does not make the finite and infinite one and the same thing, ever.
ONLY on the level of totality, existence, could true perfection exist, if at all. Otherwise, all that can be achieved is perfection in though, nothing else essentially.
And that is exactly what makes you think or say that you live
it, which essentially means you understand
(In two days time I will be away for about 6~7 weeks, so discussions at length can happen after that only)