David Quinn wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:19 pm
jupiviv wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:02 am
There is no core illusion apart from specific illusions, just like there is no infinite apart from finite things.
You’re still not getting it.
Keep saying that and I'm sure it will naturally begin to permeate your life and eventually nudge you towards a deeply reasoned breakthrough into non-existence.
What the illusion of maya conceals is the fundamental nature of all things. This fundamental nature is the same everywhere. Whether it be a chair, or an electron, or a galaxy, or a banana, or a thought - they all exhibit the same fundamental nature.
In other words, the core illusion of maya is a specific illusion about all things.
A specific illusion cannot literally conceal all things anymore than a specific thing can literally contain all things. Specific illusions about specific things merge and interact with each other and the world, generating broader illusions, i.e. a consistent deluded attitudes towards things in general. There is no grand realisation of monism, either within or beyond a specific thing. Likewise, no grand illusion concealing that. The thing *is* all of reality so any talk of how it relates to or exhibits a monistic reality is utter nonsense. For that reason there is also no movement towards or away from an ideal or perfect realisation of oneness. It's already present in all instances of consciousness, even if obstructed by delusions or expressed equivocally.
What matters is
believing what we see. The ability to ascribe a short list of disparate and conventionally unrelated things to a univocal superstratum of "fundamental nature" doesn't quite cut it. Nobody should choose core "truths" over core illusions because both are illusions and excuses for blindness. The real choice is between the sun and an afterimage. Reason can neither enlightened us nor be transformed by us into an enlightened version of itself (there is none). Only a revolutionary reordering of our relationship to other things (including reason) can transform the stunted and self-serving "reason" and "truth" of humanity into something better. Better because
we want them to be so. Your conceited, brittle "absolute truth" is useless in that great and noble endeavour.
jupiviv wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:02 am
A core illusion in the literal sense would be
a reality concealed by lesser illusions, which makes no sense.
It makes perfect sense. Most people have no knowledge or awareness of the core illusion of maya because their minds are continuously being distracted by the more superficial illusions of their daily lives.
Illusions can't be more or less superficial, nor conceal other illusions. Those are flatly self-contradictory statements. What you should have said is:
most people spend a lot of time addressing illusions in isolation from each other, as convenient to their deluded needs and purposes.
jupiviv wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:02 am
David Quinn wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:32 amLike a stack of cards, once maya crumbles, the rest of the mind’s delusions also begin to crumble.
Minds are not inherently distinct from each other, either in time or space. If destroying some "core illusion" leads to the destruction of all others, the efforts of the original Buddha would have liberated the entire human race from delusion for all time.
Back here on planet earth, it doesn’t work like that. Maya is very subtle and hard to discern. It requires an intense inward focus to unearth it. Because of this, it is extremely difficult to convey its existence and meaning to others, even to those who are keen and bright.
No shit! Yes, it doesn't work like that except for completely different reasons than the ones you have given. Reasoning about things, even "deep" things like "core illusions" doesn't generate any "enlightened momentum" in multiple minds, whether through time in a single life or through space in other lives. If it causes change (for better or worse), other factors have to accounted for.
The difficulty of conveying a special enlightened type of reasoning is a non-issue precisely because such a thing doesn't exist. No act of reasoning can circumvent the web of motivations and material conditions underpinning it. And yet the simplest acts of reasoning applied to everyday things become wisdom in the service of an indomitable will to tear down the entire edifice. You know, like that thing with the fishes.
Imagine a person deciding to expose corruption taking place in a government department blah blah blah
OK boomer. I was giving a real world example to provide context for a simple question, not writing a novella. No idea why a) you asked me to flesh out my example b) you now insist on discussing a more trendy example, specifically the impeachment of the greatest US President since Washington.
But you still haven't answered any of my questions.