Accidentally stumbling into enlightenment, and out again

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
Elizabeth Isabelle
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Re: Accidentally stumbling into enlightenment, and out again

Post by Elizabeth Isabelle »

Hello Z, it is a pleasure to meet you.

I know that you don't need sympathy, but I give you my condolences for your loss anyway.

Back to your original point... I too have experienced satori, and although I am not in it right now, I have changed for the experience. I have also gone through the hazing that you are getting right now, and if you can tough it out, you will find value in this site. I'll probably get another round of challenges and accusations for my statements here, but it is worth it to communicate with you.
Ztoneburg wrote: I really am at a loss to understand what is going on here. I feel like I somehow started a bar brawl without knowing it, and everyone is angry at me for some reason, but I'm the only one not fighting. I mean sure, I find it a bit amusing, but my impression of this forum is that there is some really strange psychodynamics going on here...
Deebs and some others here will never become enlightened despite much time and effort being poured into concepts taught here, and that can fuel some jealous behavior - though due to their embracing of concepts of enlightenment, they will not recognize themselves to be jealous. I have sympathy for them.

You have experienced the enlightened heart; now go on to finish acquiring the enlightened head. This place is good to help with that. Also meditate and practice mindfulness to fill out the enlightened spirit - then work on integrating them all.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Accidentally stumbling into enlightenment, and out again

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

  • Crazy females unite!
Ztoneburg
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Re: Accidentally stumbling into enlightenment, and out again

Post by Ztoneburg »

I'm out travelling now so I havent' been online for a few days, nice to see there is still some discussion going on. The weather in England is absolutely fantastic by the way, we're doing a good job of that ;)
Cahoot wrote:
Ztoneburg wrote: Got any words of advice for a newbie?
If shedding a significant chunk of ignorance doesn’t render you mute, then refrain from attempting to speak for awhile after the ignorance is shed, in order to acclimate to and function in a world where there is less of what you thought you were.
I do find it at times slightly frustrating to not have anyone nearby to discuss what I now think are interesting questions with or who have shared a similar experience. I'm suddenly very good at "small talk" since I just naturally empathize with the person I am speaking to, and it's pleasurable, but it would be nice to be able to bring up some ideas or concepts that most people would either simply not understand or just deem you crazy for.

The friend I am staying at is highly intelligent but (crazy coincidence) lost his son on the same day that I stumbled into satori. So his emotional state isn't terribly positive and I'm not appearing to have much of an effect on that. Most likely due to me trying to have an effect on it.

Today I had what I call a "mini-satori" which have been happening regularily. It's basically a built in "reward" that my brain seems to give me when I've passed certain "check points". I remember when I had the satori experience how my consciousness and ego sort of "compartmentalized" the insightsI had gotten in order to shield me from the impact of them. I think my organism once it came to a certain point just pulled the emergency brake and went "Ok, we're not ready for this. We have to start shutting this process down or it's going to break the system.". Today the piece I got back was what I've chosen to label the "Oh shit!" sensation when I finally reasoned myself to the "end". Very simmilar to Dennis previous description of the universe being set up as a joke, where the obvious reality is the serious bit and the ultimate reality is the punchline. This was the "Oh shit!" realization as I recall it.

It's kind of funny because I seem to be playing a game with myself, where I've locked away information in my brain (I remember the process but not the information) and am being fed parcels as I keep evolving and becoming more ready to assimilate it. It's always the same pattern, a sense of bliss, beauty and stillnes, and a sharp (but sometimes ambigious) parcel of remembrance. I think this was pretty much a way to make sure I didn't go insane (yeah, that didn't work out so well according to some here... ;)) or kill myself (that part is still working).

Things like this are obviously impossible to communicate to "normal" people, but since I don't really care about what people think I will sometimes bring up subjects close to it, to see if they are open to move forward. It's been some mixed results but since I'm foreign people probably just label me as eccentric (poor and disheveled people are crazy, well dressed and mannered people are eccentric).

I think I'm going to drop the idea of talking about it to others completely now, especially after reading your advice. I've also found a new and rewarding practise. I will observe people and mentally/emotionally sort "switch places" with them, meaning imagining and feeling like I am them. I tried as a form of meditation today and it gave some interesting and rewarding feedback.
Ztoneburg
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Re: Accidentally stumbling into enlightenment, and out again

Post by Ztoneburg »

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:Hello Z, it is a pleasure to meet you.

I know that you don't need sympathy, but I give you my condolences for your loss anyway.

Back to your original point... I too have experienced satori, and although I am not in it right now, I have changed for the experience. I have also gone through the hazing that you are getting right now, and if you can tough it out, you will find value in this site. I'll probably get another round of challenges and accusations for my statements here, but it is worth it to communicate with you.
Ztoneburg wrote: I really am at a loss to understand what is going on here. I feel like I somehow started a bar brawl without knowing it, and everyone is angry at me for some reason, but I'm the only one not fighting. I mean sure, I find it a bit amusing, but my impression of this forum is that there is some really strange psychodynamics going on here...
Deebs and some others here will never become enlightened despite much time and effort being poured into concepts taught here, and that can fuel some jealous behavior - though due to their embracing of concepts of enlightenment, they will not recognize themselves to be jealous. I have sympathy for them.

You have experienced the enlightened heart; now go on to finish acquiring the enlightened head. This place is good to help with that. Also meditate and practice mindfulness to fill out the enlightened spirit - then work on integrating them all.
.
Bummer. Had a much longer reply written but I'm on my new laptop and didn't use a word processor so the internet goblins ate it. Just wanted to thank you for your feedback and reiterate: I'm not experiencing any "hazing", as I said I don't see how that could possibly hurt me unless I wanted it to. I find their feedback useful as well, because it means I learn their point of view. And I will temporarily hold that point of view to try it out, then discard it since it doesn't work for me. Of course this would seem upsetting for some particular personality types, but it's not my problem that they are hazing themselves in their attempts to haze me. Hopefully they will also take a pause and see the amusing part. I mean it's never too late to develop a new point of view or a sense of humor, ist it? I'm guessing it is only if you think it is or if you don't want to ;)

Anyhow, looking forward to communicating more with you in the future. Do you have any practical tips or links regarding mindfullness by the way? I think my dopamine-dominant brain is making it a bit harder for me so am trying to approach it from as many angles as possible.
Elizabeth Isabelle
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Re: Accidentally stumbling into enlightenment, and out again

Post by Elizabeth Isabelle »

Ztoneburg wrote:Do you have any practical tips or links regarding mindfullness by the way?
Meditation helped me practice. One has to empty the mind before it can fill with the present, and the best way I've found to do that is to just keep practicing letting my mind empty as in meditation. When thoughts arise, just notice them and let them go.

There are also some other techniques that I'm sorry I don't remember but found helpful years ago in the free e-book Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha. I know that your reading list is already full, but this is worth it.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Accidentally stumbling into enlightenment, and out again

Post by Dennis Mahar »

The wonderfulness of satori.
a sense of wonder
an explosion of love
open to the world.
Spirit

pass the potato's please.
(:
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Cahoot
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Re: Accidentally stumbling into enlightenment, and out again

Post by Cahoot »

Ztoneburg wrote:I've also found a new and rewarding practise. I will observe people and mentally/emotionally sort "switch places" with them, meaning imagining and feeling like I am them. I tried as a form of meditation today and it gave some interesting and rewarding feedback.
You voice an affinity for Tonglen practice.

Also, with energizing and kind encouragement, Crossing the Road addresses the topics you initially raised in this thread.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Accidentally stumbling into enlightenment, and out again

Post by Dennis Mahar »

The question is how do you turn satori into an abiding satori or samadhi

its groundbreaking for subjectivity.

one's historicity breaks down or who one thought who one was.
the cultural norms are realised as groundless.

you are own your own
Very few people have got the remotest clue what you're talking about.

naysayers gather

kierkegaard suggests resoluteness in going forward to fend against creeping doubt.


Aristotle talks about anticipatoriness
anticipating a future born of it
Which tries to put ground under it and it devolves into a concept.

An always/already listening 'gets it'..

How concepts are a narrowing to fit into like a ball and chain

Ordinarily love is thought of as putting it out there to get it back.
as if the measure of it is the quantity of attention received
an entrapment patadigm

not that.
Ztoneburg
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Re: Accidentally stumbling into enlightenment, and out again

Post by Ztoneburg »

Cahoot wrote:
Ztoneburg wrote:I've also found a new and rewarding practise. I will observe people and mentally/emotionally sort "switch places" with them, meaning imagining and feeling like I am them. I tried as a form of meditation today and it gave some interesting and rewarding feedback.
You voice an affinity for Tonglen practice.

Also, with energizing and kind encouragement, Crossing the Road addresses the topics you initially raised in this thread.
Thank you for the link, it was a good read.

About this Tonglen...

So I'm in London today looking for a Zen buddhist centre, and every time I ask for direction I get pointed to a place that turns out to be a Tibetian Buddhist centre, not Zen at all. Finally I just travel back home to my friend and log onto the computer, and find out that this thing I thought I invented the other day turns out to be a Tibetan Buddhism practise. So I went looking for Zen, and found something I didn't think I was interested in, which turns out to be what I currently find most interesting once I decide to not check it out. Life is just fun on so many levels.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Accidentally stumbling into enlightenment, and out again

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Actually your life is a series of contentless moments... the nothing.

you have to throw yourself in to the world to get some content.....the something.

Meaning maker.

in order to for the sake of
SeekerOfWisdom
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Re: Accidentally stumbling into enlightenment, and out again

Post by SeekerOfWisdom »

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:
  • Crazy females unite!

Second that. Sounds like the mother, those bitches at work are just jealous of me!
Dennis Mahar wrote:a sense of wonder
an explosion of love
I hope you don't mean a love for people, that you love everyone.

I'm sure you mean something closer to 'a love for reality', which only comes out of an absence of imposed inherent quality on things, just reality, wonderful in itself.
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Kunga
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Re: Accidentally stumbling into enlightenment, and out again

Post by Kunga »

A Comic Orgasm dude.....like wow....
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Accidentally stumbling into enlightenment, and out again

Post by Dennis Mahar »

A Comic Orgasm dude.....like wow....
(:

oops, a posse of naysayers forming,
shit happens.
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Kunga
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Re: Accidentally stumbling into enlightenment, and out again

Post by Kunga »

Dennis Mahar wrote:
A Comic Orgasm dude.....like wow....
(:

oops, a posse of naysayers forming,
shit happens.


Nope.
I am serious.
Not Love Bashing.
Not Woman Bashing.
Intense Love.
REAL INTENSE.
REAL REAL REAL INTENSE !!!!!!!!!

LOVE

IT'S NOT HUMAN LOVE.

WTF
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Accidentally stumbling into enlightenment, and out again

Post by Dennis Mahar »

hush,hush,
the experts are still trying to figure it out.

you know, survival concerns,
what to pack and what not to pack for some big trip.
who to talk to and not to talk to,
getting the passport ready.
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Tomas
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Re: Accidentally stumbling into enlightenment, and out again

Post by Tomas »

Robert wrote:
Ztoneburg wrote:Actually, I spent a few hours reading threads on this forum and found several people who I am very interested in listening to. Dennis is one of them, the others are Pye, Being1 and Movingalways.
Diebert is right. You're not sane.
I concur.
Don't run to your death
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Accidentally stumbling into enlightenment, and out again

Post by Dennis Mahar »

I concur.
What's underneath that mask.
Ztoneburg
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Re: Accidentally stumbling into enlightenment, and out again

Post by Ztoneburg »

Dennis Mahar wrote:The question is how do you turn satori into an abiding satori or samadhi

its groundbreaking for subjectivity.

one's historicity breaks down or who one thought who one was.
the cultural norms are realised as groundless.
Yes. I've tried subjectivity for 37 years, I'd like to try the other perspective now ;)
Dennis Mahar wrote: you are own your own
Very few people have got the remotest clue what you're talking about.
Yes that is becoming very apparent. Some do though. Most are afraid to approach it I think. Fear of the unknown. Clinging to the ego. They don't seem to realise that only in giving everything you think you have up do you gain everything you have/are.
Dennis Mahar wrote: naysayers gather

kierkegaard suggests resoluteness in going forward to fend against creeping doubt.
Walking through a mist takes no extra effort, naysayers are just mist trying to cloud the way, not a barrier unless you want them to be. It's the inward walk that contains the obstacles. I'm in no hurry though because I don't think there is anyway I can't end up there, it all ends in exstacy one way or the other. And if it doesn't, that's fine too.
Dennis Mahar wrote: Aristotle talks about anticipatoriness
anticipating a future born of it
Which tries to put ground under it and it devolves into a concept.
Yes I've found this useful.
By saying, becoming. Put the future you in front of you and let him draw you into himself. Still useful, but will probably have to be abandoned in the end. Once the ”you” has filled it's purpose. Just guesswork though.
Dennis Mahar wrote: An always/already listening 'gets it'..

How concepts are a narrowing to fit into like a ball and chain

Ordinarily love is thought of as putting it out there to get it back.
as if the measure of it is the quantity of attention received
an entrapment patadigm

not that.
I find love flows naturally, where it finds something to flow into it flows, where it encounters obstacles, it rebounds.
Ztoneburg
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Re: Accidentally stumbling into enlightenment, and out again

Post by Ztoneburg »

Dennis Mahar wrote:Actually your life is a series of contentless moments... the nothing.

you have to throw yourself in to the world to get some content.....the something.

Meaning maker.

in order to for the sake of
Yes. Two days ago I made a beautiful summer day. Without me it would just have been a bunch of radiation.

All meaning is illusory, no "thing" or "event" has inherent value other than what we create. I like creating, playing, enjoying though. So obviously the "it" does too, through me, by me, with me or whatever. Every other me/we/us is free to create theirs, or keep writing their tragedies. Through me the universe is experiencing. Why not make it fun?
Ztoneburg
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Re: Accidentally stumbling into enlightenment, and out again

Post by Ztoneburg »

Kunga wrote:A Comic Orgasm dude.....like wow....
It's going on now, and most ”people” are missing it. Some don't know, some don't want to know, some know but can't experience it, some... are going Wow! I've had mine, but I'll stand in line for a while and see if I can get another. I suspect everyone gets one sooner or later, if they can only stay alive and pseudo-awake until they die. Wouldn't want anyone to leave before they got the punchline. Die first, then live, would be a good motto.

Kunga wrote:
Dennis Mahar wrote:
A Comic Orgasm dude.....like wow....
(:

oops, a posse of naysayers forming,
shit happens.


Nope.
I am serious.
Not Love Bashing.
Not Woman Bashing.
Intense Love.
REAL INTENSE.
REAL REAL REAL INTENSE !!!!!!!!!

LOVE

IT'S NOT HUMAN LOVE.
WTF
For me, the path was a woman. Don't understand the misogyny around. Micro-penis syndrome? Lack of hugs? Yin and Yang seems like a good match to me, and Yang and Yang (or is it Wang and Wang?) will probably work too. To each his own I say, help in any form appreciated!

To each my solitary misery and anger, they seem to scream. No thanks!

I can still feel the lips whos' kisses brought me there on my lips. I won't use mine to curse the gender of those lips, I'd rather build a temple to them. Lips in any form are appreciated.

2 Humans + Love + Curiosity + Communication = Satori in <2 years.

Beat that solitary masturbators, unless you're too busy beating yourselves. :P

Unneccessary impertinence Achievement unlocked!
Ztoneburg
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Re: Accidentally stumbling into enlightenment, and out again

Post by Ztoneburg »

Dennis Mahar wrote:hush,hush,
the experts are still trying to figure it out.

you know, survival concerns,
what to pack and what not to pack for some big trip.
who to talk to and not to talk to,
getting the passport ready.
And wherever you go, there you are! What are they expecting to find? What do they think they can take with them? Big luggage costs extra. Makes for cumbersome trip. Bring nothing and travel nowhere seems the easiest.
Ztoneburg
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Re: Accidentally stumbling into enlightenment, and out again

Post by Ztoneburg »

Tomas wrote:
Robert wrote:
Ztoneburg wrote:Actually, I spent a few hours reading threads on this forum and found several people who I am very interested in listening to. Dennis is one of them, the others are Pye, Being1 and Movingalways.
Diebert is right. You're not sane.
I concur.
I never claimed otherwise. What is needed for you to move on? Repeating the same statement over and over might be a useful mantra for you. After a while it will lose its meaning, as it has for me.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Accidentally stumbling into enlightenment, and out again

Post by Dennis Mahar »

There's an already/always 'listening' freely available.

it's to do with getting rid of the problem of nouning the verb and the anxiety that produces.
a whole new logic shows up around this that produces existential freedom for the most part.

love is a verb or a creative act.

To say 'I love you' has it arrested or contracted, locked up, and parties are held to ransom in a transaction that binds and because of transitoriness, what was once a desired object eventually falls to undesirable.
An inauthentic mode of being ensues where people are mouthing 'I love you' and not experiencing it.
A pretense that feeds on breadcrumbs thereby missing the banquet.

'Being love with you and you and you and you and you and you gets it at least halfway 'cos the I got shunted.

Some are easier to create love for than others so getting rid of the you draws on a finer intelligibility.

Being love verbing is where the fun begins.

it's a kind of act that isn't looking for blemishes and gets out of the persistent complaint.


going for the 'tombstone inscription'..
'loved it, so what, ring the cops'
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Cahoot
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Re: Accidentally stumbling into enlightenment, and out again

Post by Cahoot »

KD wrote: Nope.
I am serious.
Not Love Bashing.
Not Woman Bashing.
Intense Love.
REAL INTENSE.
REAL REAL REAL INTENSE !!!!!!!!!

LOVE

IT'S NOT HUMAN LOVE.

WTF
"You shall lick my face
And I shall lick your snout."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnNg_LDHegY
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Kunga
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Re: Accidentally stumbling into enlightenment, and out again

Post by Kunga »

I laughed :)

But this overwhelming bliss [love?] I speak of, [non-human]
Where does it come from ???

It seems outside of myself.
Not of me.
Extraordinary.
Not Normal.

It's not romantic love.

It seems to be of the essence of pure love.
Does this essence of pure love also contain an element of pure hate ?

Anyways....it's not ego love...
unless Ultimate Reality is the Ultimate Ego....
No....Ultimately there is no real ego .....is there ????
No.

It must be the bliss that is spoken of in spirituality.
A deep spiritual love.....beyond human concepts...

There is more to this Universe than human being.

Everyone here talks about consciousness..... [the "in the head/brain stuff" ]
How about the HEART consciousness ?
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