What is the the value of being a genius?

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.

Re: What is the the value of being a genius?

Postby Firefly » Fri May 04, 2012 6:11 am

mental vagrant wrote:
mental vagrant wrote:
Firefly wrote:sorry mental,

Can't seem to get into your game.

Thanks for sharing.


:: is an analogue; 1 for 1 mental construct comparison. I think you can do it.


This isn't vague. I tend to express myself in fairly concrete terms. My spelling isn't sub-par, i've many idiosyncracies, i'm compelled to do certain things regardless of their respective 'correctness'. A foible of some bilingual person who is moderately insane.

I got your PM btw, great stuff, keep it up :)



Ok.. So it isn't vague, you made a question as you have stated prior and your worried about being misinterpreted about your intentions. Got it. Same goes for all of us.

Why did you do it in the first place? In other words, why should we play?

Is this your value of genius? To have them take your test? You haven't responded to the question, my game or test which was the basis for this thread, and even if you have through your jest shows you would rather genius, real or not, spend time with encriptions when they could spend their time saving the world or most anything else more productive... Which is most anything else.

A simple distraction is usually nice to break the tension or a moment I've reprieve but this is beyond that. For one that has no clue about encriptions and doesn't give a damn about them anyway, where is the value in them trying to begin with? If it was made by Bill Gates or something like that I would try harder because I would be motivated by quriosity. Who are you? What is the prize beyond another useless ego boost, in other words that camel you offered.

I even tried to make it a value worth perusing by making you pay for my efforts by working on the problem I brought up, what is the value of being a genius? But you clearly tossed it aside. Bet you haven't even looked at the one fractal encryption created by nature I do care about that I invited you to study. Solving it is mastering the mind and everything that goes with the mastered mind. Is that not value enough to try? At least I offer a prize.

This isn't vague. I tend to express myself in fairly concrete terms.


Vague terms are concretely vague, that's why they are vague. Without the proper context they will remain vague, concretely. Looking for the primer for the primer of the primer of the primer (as where I start from) for no reason but to mentally masturbate is tantamount to a wild goose chase with nothing to chase but an empty orgasm.

I'm just not interested.

Again, thanks for sharing.
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Re: What is the the value of being a genius?

Postby mental vagrant » Fri May 04, 2012 9:50 am

Firefly wrote:
mental vagrant wrote:
mental vagrant wrote:
Firefly wrote:sorry mental,

Can't seem to get into your game.

Thanks for sharing.


:: is an analogue; 1 for 1 mental construct comparison. I think you can do it.


This isn't vague. I tend to express myself in fairly concrete terms. My spelling isn't sub-par, i've many idiosyncracies, i'm compelled to do certain things regardless of their respective 'correctness'. A foible of some bilingual person who is moderately insane.

I got your PM btw, great stuff, keep it up :)



Ok.. So it isn't vague, you made a question as you have stated prior and your worried about being misinterpreted about your intentions. Got it. Same goes for all of us.

Why did you do it in the first place? In other words, why should we play?

Is this your value of genius? To have them take your test? You haven't responded to the question, my game or test which was the basis for this thread, and even if you have through your jest shows you would rather genius, real or not, spend time with encriptions when they could spend their time saving the world or most anything else more productive... Which is most anything else.

A simple distraction is usually nice to break the tension or a moment I've reprieve but this is beyond that. For one that has no clue about encriptions and doesn't give a damn about them anyway, where is the value in them trying to begin with? If it was made by Bill Gates or something like that I would try harder because I would be motivated by quriosity. Who are you? What is the prize beyond another useless ego boost, in other words that camel you offered.

I even tried to make it a value worth perusing by making you pay for my efforts by working on the problem I brought up, what is the value of being a genius? But you clearly tossed it aside. Bet you haven't even looked at the one fractal encryption created by nature I do care about that I invited you to study. Solving it is mastering the mind and everything that goes with the mastered mind. Is that not value enough to try? At least I offer a prize.

This isn't vague. I tend to express myself in fairly concrete terms.


Vague terms are concretely vague, that's why they are vague. Without the proper context they will remain vague, concretely. Looking for the primer for the primer of the primer of the primer (as where I start from) for no reason but to mentally masturbate is tantamount to a wild goose chase with nothing to chase but an empty orgasm.

I'm just not interested.

Again, thanks for sharing.


Bleh. That message was directed at Gurrb, he said people are vague.

I find Bill Gates profoundly tedious.

Fractal, what about fractal?

The riddle was a response to your topic.

Encryption is an extremely valuable part of almost all information technology and and lots of maths.

Are you saying this puzzle is less real than you? It isn't.
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Re: What is the the value of being a genius?

Postby mental vagrant » Fri May 04, 2012 9:53 am

ForbidenRea wrote:Pye is equal to 3.14, Darwin.


i liked this hint
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Re: What is the the value of being a genius?

Postby Firefly » Fri May 04, 2012 2:57 pm

mental vagrant wrote:Fractal, what about fractal?


Truth has a mathematic structure. Not unlike classes.yale.edu/fractals/LP/PascSierp/PascSierpP2.gif ...but with infinite dimensions... At least it appears so as it relates to the hierarchy of knowledge and one's potential to grow it.

A true idea requires a single point, a false idea requires two single points, and a mysterious idea requires three. Using base three number system one can see the fractal pattern emerging, what I believe to be the natural basis of sentient context, natural context.


1+2=3. A true idea in conjunction with a false idea equals a mysterious idea.

3+1=13. A mysterious idea in conjunction with a true idea equals a true mystery.

2+3+13+132=311. A false idea in conjunction with a mysterious idea, a true mysterious idea, and a true mysterious false idea equals a mysterious true true/truth idea.

To be honest I'm quite confused about how to share its application and its implications... It is like standing at the edge of the world, a feeling of vertigo mixed with fear and wonder.

Say for some insane reason you gave a human brain to an ant. (think shrinkray) What would it do? How long would it take for it to figure out it could do more than the other ants? How long would it take for it to realize it was the only one? That's how I was 6 years ago.

How would that ant survive? Would it?

Back to the colony, working to survive and thinking super ant thoughts on the side.

Human life isn't so simple, the ants all have human brains yet only one knows how truly powerful they really are and how, by the inherent nature if truth hard wired into the brain, they are all inherently good. In a society based on credibility instead of truth, I am a crackpot, a loon because I don't hold credibility over truth like 95% of the world. I would rather get banned.. And have been.

Look at it this way, would you rather know what you are doing or believe what you are doing?

It is that simple.

In the mean time I'm still looking for that basis for one's singularity, "Enlightenment" as I would think, but there is so many questions and I have so little skill with organization of this caliber. When one discovers an integral sophism and attempts to adapt or change it with that same integrity, so many things could go wrong... Or right, since you are using that which is changing how you observe for the better... at this point I'm guessing because I am alone on this.

Let me put it this way, when the act of observing changes the outcome, what do you do? Make assumptions and run? Play trial and error and run?

You get a second oppinion... Or you...

Please help?
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Re: What is the the value of being a genius?

Postby Firefly » Fri May 04, 2012 3:23 pm

Bleh.



I tend to put to much faith in people and give them the benefit of the doubt every time. And almost every time it has ended painfully. Not because of them per say, but because their basis for observing is synthetic. Thus I know this is a long shot for a plea for help, I...

I am talking to an ant, a drone of society who's queen is information technology.

Like you care?

Forget it, let this thread drop off and so can forget I existed.

I have nothing left to offer.
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Re: What is the the value of being a genius?

Postby mental vagrant » Fri May 04, 2012 10:37 pm

Firefly wrote:
Bleh.



I tend to put to much faith in people and give them the benefit of the doubt every time. And almost every time it has ended painfully. Not because of them per say, but because their basis for observing is synthetic. Thus I know this is a long shot for a plea for help, I...

I am talking to an ant, a drone of society who's queen is information technology.

Like you care?

Forget it, let this thread drop off and so can forget I existed.

I have nothing left to offer.


Drama-queen. FFS, the notion that you have concieved me as an ant is moronic. You turned up asking a question, stating your intellect as a prime feature, then, i offered you an encrypted answer for fun, a question that has definite answer; to those capable of thinking.

Everything you have ever been exposed to through the culture of science, whatever has influenced your mind, is synthetic. So i'm left to consider what it is you mean; illusion whore?

You haven't offered anything yet. I suggest you explain your idea behind fractals.
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Re: What is the the value of being a genius?

Postby mental vagrant » Fri May 04, 2012 10:41 pm

Firefly wrote:
mental vagrant wrote:Fractal, what about fractal?


Truth has a mathematic structure. Not unlike classes.yale.edu/fractals/LP/PascSierp/PascSierpP2.gif ...but with infinite dimensions... At least it appears so as it relates to the hierarchy of knowledge and one's potential to grow it.

A true idea requires a single point, a false idea requires two single points, and a mysterious idea requires three. Using base three number system one can see the fractal pattern emerging, what I believe to be the natural basis of sentient context, natural context.


1+2=3. A true idea in conjunction with a false idea equals a mysterious idea.

3+1=13. A mysterious idea in conjunction with a true idea equals a true mystery.

2+3+13+132=311. A false idea in conjunction with a mysterious idea, a true mysterious idea, and a true mysterious false idea equals a mysterious true true/truth idea.

To be honest I'm quite confused about how to share its application and its implications... It is like standing at the edge of the world, a feeling of vertigo mixed with fear and wonder.

Say for some insane reason you gave a human brain to an ant. (think shrinkray) What would it do? How long would it take for it to figure out it could do more than the other ants? How long would it take for it to realize it was the only one? That's how I was 6 years ago.

How would that ant survive? Would it?

Back to the colony, working to survive and thinking super ant thoughts on the side.

Human life isn't so simple, the ants all have human brains yet only one knows how truly powerful they really are and how, by the inherent nature if truth hard wired into the brain, they are all inherently good. In a society based on credibility instead of truth, I am a crackpot, a loon because I don't hold credibility over truth like 95% of the world. I would rather get banned.. And have been.

Look at it this way, would you rather know what you are doing or believe what you are doing?

It is that simple.

In the mean time I'm still looking for that basis for one's singularity, "Enlightenment" as I would think, but there is so many questions and I have so little skill with organization of this caliber. When one discovers an integral sophism and attempts to adapt or change it with that same integrity, so many things could go wrong... Or right, since you are using that which is changing how you observe for the better... at this point I'm guessing because I am alone on this.

Let me put it this way, when the act of observing changes the outcome, what do you do? Make assumptions and run? Play trial and error and run?

You get a second oppinion... Or you...

Please help?


Donna?
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Re: What is the the value of being a genius?

Postby mental vagrant » Fri May 11, 2012 7:32 am

Really, you must be kidding me?
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Re: What is the the value of being a genius?

Postby Lexi » Mon May 21, 2012 4:34 am

Hello, mental vagrant.
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Re: What is the the value of being a genius?

Postby ForbidenRea » Thu May 24, 2012 3:27 pm

"Blah, blah, blah..."
KESHA
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Re: What is the the value of being a genius?

Postby Karius » Thu May 31, 2012 3:34 am

Genius has no value if it doesn't serve you.
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Re: What is the the value of being a genius?

Postby SuperMegaUltraGenius » Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:43 am

It seems the value of being a 'Genius' is the advantageous ability to process life's experiences more efficiently than most of humanity.
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Re: What is the the value of being a genius?

Postby oxytocinNA » Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:07 pm

Firefly wrote:Hi all,

Where is the greener grass for a genius?


Not reading through all the replies.
It exists only in your mind. When you create - when you achieve. The value of these is the "greener grass" - and the only real uncorrupted value to have / experience.
The only other thing is sharing the joy - if possible (or even desirable).

Addendum:
Liberty Sea makes a point that is worth heeding. Dropping out of the system due to nausea will not give you relief. You may avoid what you find unacceptable in the educational system (which didn't fail you - it isn't set up for anyone X amount past the norm). What you are doing is limiting your options in a corrupt, dull system. I am not going to tell you that sucking it up and dealing with the silliness of the system will be worth it. It is a no win situation.

I am telling you this with decades of experience. Some of which I wasted, wanting there to be something - somewhere (external). There isn't. You can not change the system. It can only be nudged. If you think it through - you will see why. It is just you. What can you do. What can you create / intellectually conquer (for the sake of making yourself the best you can be, and in the process, enjoy existence to the degree your knowledge allows).
Get used to the fact that you will have to keep much of your thoughts to yourself. Challenging people is pointless. You will go over their heads, and piss them off. This will also limit your options.

This is all very obvious. Where ever you are at - just remember that it is internal.
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Re: What is the the value of being a genius?

Postby Momo-chan » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:08 am

Just a thought...maybe there is some fundamental element, like being able to see the thin layer of civility covering this beautiful yet ugly world, that might begin to explain the correlation between the higher a person's I.Q. is, the more likely they will suffer from depression and may even attempt suicide.

Then again, I do live in a country and cultural climate that is willing to pay Snooki from Jersey Shore more to speak to a graduating class of an Ivy League university than an Alumni. (I'm not sure if I'm remembering thie details right but the main point is still the same).

Anyway...this is my first reply to a post. I'll probably make a post once I get a better feel of the forum, or if some random train of thought is interesting enough for me to try and catch it. Nice to meet you all!
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Re: What is the the value of being a genius?

Postby oxytocinNA » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:08 pm

Momo-chan wrote:Just a thought...maybe there is some fundamental element, like being able to see the thin layer of civility covering this beautiful yet ugly world, that might begin to explain the correlation between the higher a person's I.Q. is, the more likely they will suffer from depression and may even attempt suicide.

Then again, I do live in a country and cultural climate that is willing to pay Snooki from Jersey Shore more to speak to a graduating class of an Ivy League university than an Alumni. (I'm not sure if I'm remembering thie details right but the main point is still the same).

Anyway...this is my first reply to a post. I'll probably make a post once I get a better feel of the forum, or if some random train of thought is interesting enough for me to try and catch it. Nice to meet you all!


It tend to avoid any posts with suicide in it - as people get irrational about the topic. Part of your post addresses it, so I will also. That along with the positive and negative, and their affects, based on intellectual ability.

Consider separating frustration from depression (it creates important motivational distinctions - even for the ultimate decision - to exist, or cease). A person who sees the hypocrisies, the dishonesty, the absurd, etc. will suffer from frustration. This is different from a person who can't see past the superficial (suffering from various dependencies*). Of course everyone varies - their abilities. The more intellectually skilled a person is the more ability they have to assess values (positive vs negative). It is a double edged sword. The more you know about reality - the more you can appreciate the beauty. Conversely - the more of the negative you will see. The more ignorant a person is the less they know of either the positive, or the negative.
So everyone must assess life to their ability. Exist as they see fit, or cease. You see - there can be a big difference between individuals. Take - what people refer to as genius and place them in a hopelessly negative situation will the odds of escaping virtually none existent - they will way the positive to negative and make a rational decision. An ignorant person is the opposite. Their inability to abstract / break things down, and weigh them rationally, leaves them prone to emotional decision making.

*this refers to negative values. Example: A person could say we are dependent on air to breath. This, and similar examples, are positive for life. Dependencies on drugs, for escaping reality through a high of some sort, are negative. Beliefs that contradict reality also fall into the latter.

The bolded: sad isn't it.
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Re: What is the the value of being a genius?

Postby mental vagrant » Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:40 am

I see your point, though my experience involves me seeing stuff, not being capable of overcoming strong feelings. I'm somewhat if not greatly hyper-sensitive in addition to other traits, so when my LoveShy tendencies stop me from doing the most important 'thing' for me ultimately, (literally the avoidance makes me physically ill to the extent where i become psychotic), the frustration turns to rage and has to be numbed with profound depression. Depression to the extent where I'm trying to source chemicals that will help me die peacefully. So although your point is essentially valid, i think the way these frustrations translate to each person vary and culture / personality play a role in whether the individual will transcend it's psychopath. I can feel them cutting my mind apart and dancing in the carnage.
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Re: What is the the value of being a genius?

Postby NobodyListens2Genius » Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:02 pm

There is no value in being a genius. I went to university and experienced the exact same thing you did, quitting after one month.

All being a genius has ever gotten me is an unending feeling that I should share what I know with those who don't, yet we all know how well that turns out.
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Re: What is the the value of being a genius?

Postby Cahoot » Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:14 pm

Momo-chan wrote:Just a thought...maybe there is some fundamental element, like being able to see the thin layer of civility covering this beautiful yet ugly world, that might begin to explain the correlation between the higher a person's I.Q. is, the more likely they will suffer from depression and may even attempt suicide.

Self-cherishing is a fundamental element that explains the correlation, Momo.
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Re: What is the the value of being a genius?

Postby NobodyListens2Genius » Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:32 pm

mental vagrant wrote: the frustration turns to rage and has to be numbed with profound depression. Depression to the extent where I'm trying to source chemicals that will help me die peacefully............ I can feel them cutting my mind apart and dancing in the carnage.


Mental Vagrant if you are serious about what you wrote I can't help but offer advice or ask what's troubling you?
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Re: What is the the value of being a genius?

Postby Cathy Preston » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:39 am

I guess I was lucky, never really made genius status.
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Re: What is the the value of being a genius?

Postby oxytocinNA » Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:07 pm

mental vagrant wrote:I see your point, though my experience involves me seeing stuff, not being capable of overcoming strong feelings. I'm somewhat if not greatly hyper-sensitive in addition to other traits, so when my LoveShy tendencies stop me from doing the most important 'thing' for me ultimately, (literally the avoidance makes me physically ill to the extent where i become psychotic), the frustration turns to rage and has to be numbed with profound depression. Depression to the extent where I'm trying to source chemicals that will help me die peacefully. So although your point is essentially valid, i think the way these frustrations translate to each person vary and culture / personality play a role in whether the individual will transcend it's psychopath. I can feel them cutting my mind apart and dancing in the carnage.


Note: Forums are not a good place for in depth discussion - so I was simplifying a great deal. Individuals do vary (a given). Culture does have the affect of in that it conditions people with regional social artifice and bromide, unless one questions it.

I would offer this advice on your part:
The greater the context you place you observations, of whatever situation you are in, the more controlled / stable / lower keyed you feelings. Consider it a discipline. Wait gather a wider view.
Shy = fear. There is no need for any fear. There is to much involved to post a full answer to this (not enough room and I do not have the time) Just know that there is an answer / methodology. If you figure it out, you will no longer fear anything. It will simply become a matter of assessment.
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Re: What is the the value of being a genius?

Postby Eric Orwoll » Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:14 am

Reply to the original question:

There is no value in anything. A concept of value must be constructed.

I read through this thread and it seems the underlying message is, 'Having the ability to see what the world could be but not the ability to project that view onto the external world leads to less happiness than having no ability whatsoever.'

A value system based around your own happiness is destined to self destruct. If you care about your own happiness then you are a slave to your will. Escape the bonds of your servitude. Escape your self.

As the size of a consciousness increases, the fallacy of individual identity has to work harder to contain the whole. Acting as a servant of your will is to act under this fallacious conception of individuality. Knowledge is a burden to the will. Gain enough of it and the will is shattered.

When a being with the capacity for that kind of knowledge (genius) sets about understanding the world, they must take care not to retain the concept of individuality up to the point when it is shattered- that way lies only pain.

Where does value lie outside of will?

There are two paths. One towards limitation, the other toward undifferentiation.
All elements are equal, any aspect of being is just as valid as any other but there can be a difference in magnitude.

The barriers of the self can expand or contract. It can encompass more or less. Do you set the eye of the universe toward the whole or toward a part?
To make that choice is to construct value.

As for this mind,

It longs for the light of truth; its branches work their way up to grasp after the one true beauty.
Now and then its gaze turns and sees others of its kind, others who long for the unattainable sun.
It pauses and finds solace in the silent solidarity of its brothers above the forest.

It will reach until its roots must lift from the ground.
The tree will fall but it matters not.
The tree was just a signpost, pointing toward that which cannot be named.


It's just the nature of the forest that only giants will recognize giants, take solace in that and let common ones engage in their earthly business.

mental vagrant- I see you.
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Re: What is the the value of being a genius?

Postby oxytocinNA » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:43 pm

This just makes me feel old. One of the variations of an old self contradiction premiss. I like the lead in though -
"There is no value in anything. A concept of value must be constructed."

"A concept of value must be constructed"
All concepts are abstracted constructs. Value: relative worth, merit, or importance

"There is no value in anything"
What motivated you to post this idea? Indeed - why are you even alive?
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Re: What is the the value of being a genius?

Postby Eric Orwoll » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:48 pm

Because it keeps me busy.
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Re: What is the the value of being a genius?

Postby Diebert van Rhijn » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:21 am

What if genius is the very thing creating value? What would the value of such gem be?

Anyway, a discussion on value is interesting for many reasons. There are a few things I want throw into the mix to see if they resonate. There are three concepts here for me which seem to be related to each other:

  • value
  • meaning
  • connection

For example, life is valued because it has meaning. When life has lost meaning, one stops seeing the value of maintaining it (much). Or the other way around: we tend to see meaning in valuable things.

Connections seem to generate meaning or value. The most crazy explicit example is a website like Facebook. Its value is derived from many billions of connections between many millions of users, which are mapped and generate monetary value for the business and emotional or entertainment value for users. Google adds value by connecting advertisers in a massive way to whatever their users mean to find or value. And they connect in more ways than anyone else online people to whatever it is they're looking for. Did they look from something meaningful or did they find meaning looking for it, one wonders.

Now there's also pleasure and desire in the mix of meaning. People find meaning in how something makes them feel ("meaningful"). And as such also will value the experience (or hate it). What would have the most value of all the things in existence? Would that be also the most meaningful thing? And following this logic, would that mean it has to be something connected to everything more than anything else is?

This post will only have meaning for the ones who can connect to parts because they already have similar ideas and those connections will make them value reading it. The more it connects to what you're on about, the more sense it makes, the more value is added. And so this is the model for now. But to use it to answer the topic question: the value of genius is how much you can relate to it. The rest being vanity.
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