Fixation on Origin

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.

Fixation on Origin

Postby Gurrb » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:49 pm

since the beginning of time (yes, i went there for the sake of irony), we have postulated how we came to be. without sparking a debate on the origin of our existence, i wish for others to put forth their OWN ideas on WHY we are obsessed with our origin. why must we have an origin? why do we theorize on something that it is seemingly impossible to determine?

i have many ideas on this phenomenon. i'll start with the one i believe is the most simplistic.

in our youth, we are taught to explore and question what things are, what they do, and why they are. 'why do we brush our teeth?' we ask. well, to keep your teeth clean and healthy. 'why must they be clean and healthy?' well, so you can be healthy and live a long and happy life. ostensibly, at a young age, we are not wondering when and how the act of brushing our teeth came into existence, but we are wondering why it is indeed in existence. making the assumption that everything has a purpose (in some form of its definition), we can assume that knowing why something exists is inseparable from knowing how it came to exist. essentially, we wonder why we exist, whilst simultaneously wondering how we came to exist. this trait of curiosity carries on into adulthood, and here we are--still debating our origin frivolously.

i'll offer up another theory: the world around us is filled with things that have a 'beginning' and an 'end'. these two terms are obviously relatively subjective in most cases, but i'll try to keep it as objective as possible. looking short term, a human's life begins when it is born and ends when it dies. a day begins at midnight and ends directly before the next midnight. the list of examples is endless, but you can see my point. this embosses our minds to focus on the finite, and attribute all that we can to as being finite (although the infinite is a cogitation). we apply this predisposition to existence and become obsessed with determining our beginning and predicting our end.

the third theory is derivative of the current theories. to start, we look at the theory of evolution and we see a progression of complexity. this progression suggests that at some point in time, there was in fact an extremely primitive form of life. again this raises a microcosmic question: how did this primitive life form enter existence. obviously the theories are innumerable, but the basic foundation is there--the progression of complexity makes us retrace our steps, and resultingly we wonder how we made the leap from non-existence to existence.
putting my atheistic views aside, i'll delve a little into religion and its attempt to provide an answer on existence. i'll keep it very basic, and define it in rather christian terms. they theorize god created all there is. herein lies the seed of our curiosity. there was nothing, then there was something.


in the end, why can't existence be cyclical? we have always existed, just been going 'round the existential merry-go-round.
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Re: Fixation on Origin

Postby Liberty Sea » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:59 pm

Why do you live?
Why do you want to stay alive?
Do you want to merely exist, or you want to really live?
Do you want to die without understanding your existence?
Does your life matter?
Do you want it to be?
Does it matter if you live happily or miserably?
Does it matter if you die without knowing the Truth? Does it matter if you die knowing it?
That is the seed of our questioning.

My favorite Kierkegaard's questions:
"One sticks one’s finger into the soil to tell by the smell in what land one is: I stick my finger in existence — it smells of nothing. Where am I? Who am I? How came I here? What is this thing called the world? What does this world mean? Who is it that has lured me into the world? Why was I not consulted, why not made acquainted with its manners and customs instead of throwing me into the ranks, as if I had been bought by a kidnapper, a dealer in souls? How did I obtain an interest in this big enterprise they call reality? Why should I have an interest in it? Is it not a voluntary concern? And if I am to be compelled to take part in it, where is the director? I should like to make a remark to him. Is there no director? Whither shall I turn with my complaint?"
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Re: Fixation on Origin

Postby Gurrb » Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:14 pm

i've wondered all those things, and really it can all come down to 'does anything matter?'

we're all flesh (for a bit) and bones in the ground in the end. it's a depressing life if you think about it like that. we will never know the answers to any of these questions, yet we still ask them. i've asked similar questions a while back on this forum, such as 'what's the point of living a happy, fulfilling life if it doesn't matter in the end?' obviously, this question branches out to many other questions, but the simple answer would be to experience joy and pleasure now...later is another story.
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Re: Fixation on Origin

Postby mental vagrant » Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:53 am

Those are subjective questions, because we are all different. Environment and genetics will determine life, from that, the person will construct matrices of meaning and choose whatever it is predisposed to choosing. Those questions usually have answers, but to examine them objectively only makes sense when one is looking to understand their own thinking behind their fabric. Neuroscience is probably the most useful tool for estimating the webs of fabric.
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Re: Fixation on Origin

Postby ForbidenRea » Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:49 pm

Gurrb,

It is the isolation of 'thought' that signifies the out-of-control systematic and post-trauma. An inner being is the 'selfless' self realization soul. In favor, of quantumn mechanics. A=A. Duality. What is not a virtuoso's of a past sequencing of time and space reality. What ignorant prick designed space?
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Re: Fixation on Origin

Postby Firefly » Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:59 pm

lol
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Re: Fixation on Origin

Postby ForbidenRea » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:01 pm

Twitching is not a part of the game. Sequencing is.
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Re: Fixation on Origin

Postby ForbidenRea » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:02 pm

For fucks sakes gurrb, throw on a towel. Immediately.
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Re: Fixation on Origin

Postby Firefly » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:45 pm

Wow lol.

Gurrb has you outclassed mate.

ForbidenRea wrote:Gurrb,

It is the isolation of 'thought' that signifies the out-of-control systematic and post-trauma.


lol... sorry, thought is naturally isolated so we are all, "out-of-control systematic and post-trauma" ...lol

An inner being is the 'selfless' self realization soul.


Can't be selfless without a self being selfish about being selfless. Nice circle thought, wanna try another direction?

In favor, of quantumn mechanics. A=A. Duality.


In quantum mechanics, A doesn't always = A. Besides, A=A is not a duality.

What is not a virtuoso's of a past sequencing of time and space reality.


Everything else.

What ignorant prick designed space?


You. You decide what design space is in your own mind. Be sure to leave what you don't know as a mystery in case you want to figure it out.

You remind me of my nephew, constantly trying to make a social stance with concepts he doesn't understand. I took the time to walk with him and now he can stand above you atm. He's 8, how old are you?

If your going to make a stance, find a pure basis so that the concepts you build are not contaminated with shortcuts, assumptions and other peoples truths. At least something definite that leads you true... like Truth.
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Re: Fixation on Origin

Postby Gurrb » Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:47 pm

that's firefly's pic i assume you're referring to.

in terms of quantum mechanics, i would imagine A = A1 and not A1, and then A1 = A2 and not A2, and so on.

the potential for existence has always interested me. for instance, can 'not A1' equal anything besides its present self (although it represents something that exists only as a thought, and has no tangible properties)?

i can conceive that the mind feels one thing, but the body does another. let's say we have a brain-damaged patient who shows the signs of having a phantom limb. this patient thinks in their mind, 'i'm going to clench my fist' and so they do so (in their mind, and not looking at their actions--only feeling them). in their mind, they have just clenched their fist. in the physical world they have not. duality is at play here. i'm finding it difficult to articulate coherently, but i'm trying to say that the physical world and spiritual (mind) world are in fact separate from each other, but not synchronized.

obviously this represents the brain in its appearance, but the thought of self is still prevalent. if the mind is creating this whole fiasco, well then our minds are just toying with us.
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Re: Fixation on Origin

Postby Pincho Paxton » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:52 am

As humans I think that our brain has a function to solve puzzles. Open a bottle, pick up a stick to use as a lever. Put a wheel on a cart. The origin is just a puzzle to solve, and it's like the ultimate crossword puzzle.
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Re: Fixation on Origin

Postby mental vagrant » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:20 am

Pincho Paxton wrote:As humans I think that our brain has a function to solve puzzles. Open a bottle, pick up a stick to use as a lever. Put a wheel on a cart. The origin is just a puzzle to solve, and it's like the ultimate crossword puzzle.


Shamanism might be a useful practice for considering this question, all these answers are very predictable including mine of course. This is what i think Gurrb meant. You want a life/love philosophy 'sort-of-thing'?
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