Absolute Reality
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Re: Absolute Reality
"Those who become Buddhas, but not from Enlightment occurring in their own minds, are called Hearer-Buddhas. Most students of the Way are Enlightened through the Dharma which is taught in words and not through the Dharma of Mind. Even after the successive aeons of effort, they will not become attuned to the original Buddha-Essence. For those who are not Enlightened from within their own Mind, but from hearing the Dharma which is taught in words, make light of Mind and attach importance to doctrine, so they advance only step-by-step, neglecting their original Mind. Thus, if only you have a tacit understanding of Mind, you will not need to search for any Dharma, for then MInd is the Dharma." Haung Po
and to liveloveexperience absolute reality can't be accessed, you're always in it whether you realize it or not.
and to liveloveexperience absolute reality can't be accessed, you're always in it whether you realize it or not.
Re: Absolute Reality
In other words, only those who already know what the Mind is can understand the Dharma that is taught in words.Cathy Preston wrote:"Those who become Buddhas, but not from Enlightment occurring in their own minds, are called Hearer-Buddhas. Most students of the Way are Enlightened through the Dharma which is taught in words and not through the Dharma of Mind. Even after the successive aeons of effort, they will not become attuned to the original Buddha-Essence. For those who are not Enlightened from within their own Mind, but from hearing the Dharma which is taught in words, make light of Mind and attach importance to doctrine, so they advance only step-by-step, neglecting their original Mind. Thus, if only you have a tacit understanding of Mind, you will not need to search for any Dharma, for then MInd is the Dharma." Haung Po
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Re: Absolute Reality
jupiviv wrote:In other words, only those who already know what the Mind is can understand the Dharma that is taught in words.Cathy Preston wrote:"Those who become Buddhas, but not from Enlightment occurring in their own minds, are called Hearer-Buddhas. Most students of the Way are Enlightened through the Dharma which is taught in words and not through the Dharma of Mind. Even after the successive aeons of effort, they will not become attuned to the original Buddha-Essence. For those who are not Enlightened from within their own Mind, but from hearing the Dharma which is taught in words, make light of Mind and attach importance to doctrine, so they advance only step-by-step, neglecting their original Mind. Thus, if only you have a tacit understanding of Mind, you will not need to search for any Dharma, for then MInd is the Dharma." Haung Po
The Dharma that is taught in words is not the real Dharma its only a pointer.
Re: Absolute Reality
In that quote Mind seems to refer to the All, and the Dharma to the understanding or realisation of it. Literally, "dharma" variously means religion, doctrine, principle, philosophy etc.
Re: Absolute Reality
Yeah, so what does it mean when Buddha had no dharma to speak of, that he never taught any dharma ? That he too, is non-existentent/existent, [etc] ?
Do not say “empty,” or “not empty,” or “both,” or “neither:” these are mentioned for the sake of [conventional] understanding. [Nagajuna]
Totally pacifying all referents and totally pacifying fixations is peace. The Buddha nowhere taught any dharma to anyone. [Nagajuna]
Do not say “empty,” or “not empty,” or “both,” or “neither:” these are mentioned for the sake of [conventional] understanding. [Nagajuna]
Totally pacifying all referents and totally pacifying fixations is peace. The Buddha nowhere taught any dharma to anyone. [Nagajuna]
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Re: Absolute Reality
Kunga wrote:Yeah, so what does it mean when Buddha had no dharma to speak of, that he never taught any dharma ? That he too, is non-existentent/existent, [etc] ?
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Do not say “empty,” or “not empty,” or “both,” or “neither:” these are mentioned for the sake of [conventional] understanding. [Nagajuna]
Totally pacifying all referents and totally pacifying fixations is peace. The Buddha nowhere taught any dharma to anyone. [Nagajuna]
The Buddha has no dharma to speak of because the real dharma cannot be spoken. Dharma is a transformation of mind within mind by mind. All we can really do is aim to make the conditions right for the real Dharma to take root.
Dharma has nothing to do with learning concepts or meaning of words. An illiterate with the right conditions could receive and understand the Dharma.
Re: Absolute Reality
Yes, thank you Cathy _/\_
So would you say Dharma is Awareness ?
Like the sun is always shining,
but clouds sometimes get in the way ?
So would you say Dharma is Awareness ?
Like the sun is always shining,
but clouds sometimes get in the way ?
Re: Absolute Reality
Naturally occurring timeless awareness - utterly lucid awakened mind -
is something marvelous and superb, primordially and spontaneously present.
It is the treasury of which comes the universe of appearances and possibilities, whether of samsara or nirvana.
Timelessly and spontaneously present, this pure realm is without
transition or change.
With the perception of the true nature of phenomena within basic space,
wisdom arises continuously as the adornment of that space.
Not created or ahieved, it abides timelessly.
Like the sun in the sky, it is amazing and superb.
[Longchenpa]
is something marvelous and superb, primordially and spontaneously present.
It is the treasury of which comes the universe of appearances and possibilities, whether of samsara or nirvana.
Timelessly and spontaneously present, this pure realm is without
transition or change.
With the perception of the true nature of phenomena within basic space,
wisdom arises continuously as the adornment of that space.
Not created or ahieved, it abides timelessly.
Like the sun in the sky, it is amazing and superb.
[Longchenpa]
Last edited by Kunga on Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Absolute Reality
Kunga wrote:Yes, thank you Cathy _/\_
So would you say Dharma is Awareness ?
Like the sun is always shining,
but clouds sometimes get in the way ?
No I wouldn't.
Re: Absolute Reality
Cathy Preston wrote:The Buddha has no dharma to speak of because the real dharma cannot be spoken. Dharma is a transformation of mind within mind by mind. All we can really do is aim to make the conditions right for the real Dharma to take root.
Dharma has nothing to do with learning concepts or meaning of words. An illiterate with the right conditions could receive and understand the Dharma.
But you say Dharma is a transformation of mind within mind by mind. To me that transformation is a "Knowing" an "Awareness".
An illterate is transformed by their "Awareness", because the right conditions would mean "the clouds" of confusion have passed, and the Sun [Awareness] shines forth.
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Re: Absolute Reality
Wait a minute and he'll be unaware, be it asleep or in a coma or just preoccupied with a specific task. An illiterate or anyone for that matter never receives the Dharma of their own doing.
Re: Absolute Reality
Cathy Preston wrote:Dharma is a transformation of mind within mind by mind. All we can really do is aim to make the conditions right for the real Dharma to take root.
Cathy Preston wrote:Wait a minute and he'll be unaware, be it asleep or in a coma or just preoccupied with a specific task. An illiterate or anyone for that matter never receives the Dharma of their own doing.
Then what are you doing ["all we can really do is aim to make the conditions right"],
you are saying we DO something , and then say it's not of our doing , that we recieve the Dharma.
What is this transformation ?
What do we do to make the conditions right ?
And what is MIND ?
Re: Absolute Reality
http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Buddhis ... ang-po.htm
On Awareness :
http://www.theawakenedeye.com/view.htm
edited to add another insightful link :)
On Awareness :
http://www.theawakenedeye.com/view.htm
edited to add another insightful link :)
Last edited by Kunga on Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Absolute Reality
At some point you have to realize you've done all you can and stop grasping.
Re: Absolute Reality
So what is the real dharma and what is the unreal dharma, and what is the distinction between them?Cathy Preston wrote:The Buddha has no dharma to speak of because the real dharma cannot be spoken. Dharma is a transformation of mind within mind by mind.
Would he have to distinguish between real and unreal dharma like you did, or understand that it is "transformation of mind" etc.? If so, he would have to form concepts and language.Dharma has nothing to do with learning concepts or meaning of words. An illiterate with the right conditions could receive and understand the Dharma.
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Re: Absolute Reality
One is attempting to describe a dance, one is the actual dance.So what is the real dharma and what is the unreal dharma, and what is the distinction between them?
Does a butterfly need language or concepts to transform from a pupa?Would he have to distinguish between real and unreal dharma like you did, or understand that it is "transformation of mind" etc.? If so, he would have to form concepts and language.
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Re: Absolute Reality
Do you imagine that we can't use the mind without language? How did we even conceive of a language in the first place?Would he have to distinguish between real and unreal dharma like you did, or understand that it is "transformation of mind" etc.? If so, he would have to form concepts and language.
Re: Absolute Reality
Yes...I've been to that point many times...then I always "go back" to "beginers mind"....it is exasperating !Cathy Preston wrote:At some point you have to realize you've done all you can and stop grasping.
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Re: Absolute Reality
How did you access 'dharma' and all it entails Cathy?Does a butterfly need language or concepts to transform from a pupa?
Did it fall from the sky?
What actually happened?
What conditions prevailed?
Re: Absolute Reality
Please tell us your story first Dennis :)
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Re: Absolute Reality
All these,
:)'s
roll the eyes
lol's
are bullshit.
:)'s
roll the eyes
lol's
are bullshit.
Re: Absolute Reality
No...that's just your bullshit for evading the question.Dennis Mahar wrote:All these,
:)'s
roll the eyes
lol's
are bullshit.
Edited the word excuse to bullshit :) LOL :P
Last edited by Kunga on Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Absolute Reality
How did you access 'dharma' and all it entails Dennis?
Did it fall from the sky?
What actually happened?
What conditions prevailed?
Did it fall from the sky?
What actually happened?
What conditions prevailed?
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Re: Absolute Reality
I didn't access anything. It always existed.How did you access 'dharma' and all it entails Cathy?
no but it might as well haveDid it fall from the sky?
there was a realization. It wasn't like oh I never noticed that before and now I do, nothing changed. nothing added, nothing taken away just an understanding.What actually happened
I was driving my car at the time so I suppose my mind was sufficiently empty. But to say that was the specific cause would be incorrect, obviously other things were at play since I'd driven this way many many times before.What conditions prevailed?
edited for spelling
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Re: Absolute Reality
gratitude Cathy.
conventionally, the penny dropped after years of questing?
Do you subscribe to the impeccably reasoned Nagajuna conclusion that ultimately,
it's empty and meaningless,
that it's empty and meaningless.
or,
it's empty that it's empty,
no philosophic assertion can be made.
that has one authentically standing in 'don't know',
with the glorious effect that mind and world are opened up to wonder, astonishment and possibility.
that true wisdom opens up.
that the problem has been belief in the 'fitted' idea that phenomena exists from it's own side.
conventionally, the penny dropped after years of questing?
Do you subscribe to the impeccably reasoned Nagajuna conclusion that ultimately,
it's empty and meaningless,
that it's empty and meaningless.
or,
it's empty that it's empty,
no philosophic assertion can be made.
that has one authentically standing in 'don't know',
with the glorious effect that mind and world are opened up to wonder, astonishment and possibility.
that true wisdom opens up.
that the problem has been belief in the 'fitted' idea that phenomena exists from it's own side.