Life after death

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.

Re: Life after death

Postby David Quinn » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:00 pm

jufa wrote: Just as evolution could not emerge from a ball of fire, neither could Nature and find standing with the fore-running Consciousness which sat the entire universe in motion.

"Evolution emerging from a ball of fire" - what are you on about?

I can't even begin to decipher the second part of the sentence.

It's difficult to work out whether the incoherence of your writing is the result of not having English as a first language, whether you deliberately hide in incoherence, or whether you've taken too many drugs. Possibly all three.

Whatever the case, unless you offer something that is simple and clear, I'm not really inclined to continue the conversation.

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Re: Life after death

Postby Kunga » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:10 pm

jufa wrote:evolution could not emerge from a ball of fire,


Without the Sun...life as we know it would devolve.
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Re: Life after death

Postby movingalways » Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:36 am

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:
movingalways wrote:For me, to enter full Buddhahood or Christhood is to enter omniscience, and while omniscient, there is no emergence of thought or image or word present in your awareness. It is finished.


Awareness arises always with the object. Omniscience is a dream, a concept designed to cover up any flaws in thought and all the errors of ones way.

But there is another world where contrast, relativism and emergence does not exist; God willing, I plan to be of and in that world one 'day'.


You want to escape to a world where contrast does not exist. Being desires non-being as life always desires death.

This is still the earthy cycle of rebirth and desire. We could talk about such greater things than these other worlds you hope to join.


Diebert, it is apparent that you do not understand the nature of omniscience by your comment that you believe I am talking about other worlds that I hope to join. There are no other worlds of me, for I am the omniety of me. There can be no joining, for there is no separation.

To be omniscient is to be free of every attachment, no exceptions. To be purified completely of seeing darkness, contrast, where there is only light. You used the right verb to describe the process of attachment when you correctly stated that awareness rises always with the object.

The person who attains to such a desireless state of stillness of consciousness wherein there is no arising of attachment to one's own objects, from my experience and from researching the experiences of others who attain to such purity of Right View, does not attain such purity until the death of their physical body. However, such an individual can come so close to being detached from their subjective-objective view that their attachments do not incur karma, rather, they are subtle and are purposed to sustain the individual until physical death.

What greater things can you talk to me about that can trump such purity of heart and mind? To attain to such purity and integrity of Word that no man owns even a gossamer thread of my spirit/soul? In the wilderness, Satan [Jesus' mind of worldly attachment] showed him the wonders of the appearance of the world and asked him to bow down to him [it] and all these things would be his. What was Jesus' response? Get thee behind me Satan. Why? Because the greater things of the world cannot be attained without the deceit [complex causal web] of attachment.

This thread is about life after death. A person who attains to total purity of heart and mind so as to realize their omniscience knows death is but another attachment, as is birth, perhaps the two greatest attachments. That means that is one is free of every attachment, there is only LIFE.
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Re: Life after death

Postby movingalways » Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:50 am

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:
movingalways wrote: It is ironic to me that many wisdom seekers acknowledge the suffering of rebirth into the appearance, but fight tooth and nail, the permanent ending of this very same suffering.

Seeking permanency is the problem of rebirth in a nutshell. It's still not clear to me Pam, what you are seeking to end or are advertising to have ended. Because it's the very nature of delusion to assume beginnings and endings where they are definitely not. This is why it's interesting or should be interesting to question it without end.


The Buddha clearly stated that suffering can be ended, as did Jesus state that the Single Eye will end duality. They both also clearly stated how this is to be accomplished.

There is no end or beginning to Life/Consciousness, this is true, but it is not true that the relativity of attachments within individual consciousness of Life does not end. Do you still suck your thumb? Do you still poop in your diapers, believe in Santa Claus, run to your mother when you skin your knee? Of course not, you transcended these things. Just as there comes a time in a seeker's life when he transcends his attachment to birth and death.

Are you actually saying that man's suffering of his attachments is his eternal lot?
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Re: Life after death

Postby movingalways » Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:02 am

Dennis Mahar wrote:Pam,

You've got a Story.

'One fine day if I practice a strategy I will hit the Jackpot.'

'The grass is greener over there.'

Conditional. Conditioned mind.

Using conceptual mind for a postulated benefit.

It's okay to have an empowering story.
Doesn't matter one way or the other.
Just know it's a story and is not unconditioned mind.

Kill the Buddha finally.


So it's OK to kill your mother as long as you know it's not unconditioned mind doing the killing? So it's OK to rape your sister as long as you know it's not unconditioned mind doing the raping? You can tell the judge, "hey man, it's just my Story!" To which he might reply "no problem Mr. Maher, welcome to your new Story - life in prison!"

To live by the qualities or virtues that one attributes to an unconditioned existence is to be transformed into these qualities or virtues. Is this a Story? Yes, but its ending is the ending of one's conditioned existence. It is to pluck out the seeds of karma one by one; it is to live a righteous life defined by one's expanding awareness of their unconditioned mind.

The actual phrase is "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him." What that means is that Buddhahood cannot be seen or touched or heard or smelled or tasted or is it of the ego-physical body, so if you meet someone who claims their personhood or their five senses is the Buddha, you are to kill that claim.

It is the fool that believes that they will realize/recognize their unconditioned awareness simply by intellectually acknowledging its existence. Perhaps your goal is not to realize/recognize your unconditioned awareness; if this is true, then that explains our continuing debate about emptiness and meaning.
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Re: Life after death

Postby movingalways » Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:01 am

Dennis, Diebert, the object or Story or condition that arises from the man who seeks to be as perfect as is the unconditioned mind is perfect with the ultimate goal of being unconditioned, of being perfect, are the qualities/virtues if truth-telling and compassion. When one experiences only the subtle rising objects of truth-telling and compassion, there is nothing of the imaged objects of the world of the appearance that has any meaning fpr them. Only the condition of their conscience matters.

"Be therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven [the unconditioned Mind] is perfect."
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Re: Life after death

Postby DonaldJ » Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:04 am

Where is consciousness..?
Consciousness is everything that is known that isn't fear and insanity..

What is consciousness..?
The solution is simple.. I'll command my whole Being to work on defining consciousness, it in my mind's lab, and give me a good answer in 24 hours...


The morning after a young adolescent Sasquatch (bigfoot) paralyzed me, and left me frozen for 8 excruciating hours, the next morning I saw the whole world in a clarity "Tai-Chi bubble", which might be classified as "ultimate earthly consciousness".. I saw a tiny flower's 4-inch diameter aura, full of plasma infrared and plasma ultra violet, both flowing in and out of each other like "mixing the mix for a marble cake"..
Has anyone else seen the active UV & IR plasma of a flower..?
Has anyone seen the Tai-Chi bubbles around the heads of Tai-Chi students..?
Does anyone have a clue what Tai-Chi bubble is..?

I suspect humans can strengthen their consciousness by doing a deep trance, and aiming it to the inner planet, till you comes across a void in the planet.. Caution: Wise to not mess with that which is in the center of the planet's core.. or you will so be sorry...
When you find this void, ask the planet to permit you to feel Her pain... If the feel gets to hard to bare, splash your face with ice-cold water 3 times... This contact should triple your consciousness in just a couple seconds... Have a pardy...
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Re: Life after death

Postby Dennis Mahar » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:03 am

To live by the qualities or virtues that one attributes to an unconditioned existence is to be transformed into these qualities or virtues. Is this a Story? Yes, but its ending is the ending of one's conditioned existence. It is to pluck out the seeds of karma one by one; it is to live a righteous life defined by one's expanding awareness of their unconditioned mind.


Yes it is a Story.
A postulate about a happy ending.

A mind thinks it has it figured out.
In order for this, that.
Painting by numbers.

That's conditioned mind.
A blueprint.

Gestalt it.

What can be seen is how one invents oneself as the hero in one's own project.
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Re: Life after death

Postby Diebert van Rhijn » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:25 am

movingalways wrote:There are no other worlds of me, for I am the omniety of me. There can be no joining, for there is no separation.

To be omniscient is to be free of every attachment, no exceptions. To be purified completely of seeing darkness, contrast, where there is only light.


Freedom of attachment cannot change the experiencing of contrasts. The moment you say, think or feel "there is", you're already throwing dark shadows.


The person who attains to such a desireless state of stillness of consciousness wherein there is no arising of attachment to one's own objects, from my experience and from researching the experiences of others who attain to such purity of Right View, does not attain such purity until the death of their physical body.


So you're going for a state which you claim is not really fully possible for a living being. This is obvious the moment one understands that life and existence ("impurity") always longs for death and non-existence ("purity"). And both are already here and now at play. Your death will not change that one bit.

However, such an individual can come so close to being detached from their subjective-objective view that their attachments do not incur karma, rather, they are subtle and are purposed to sustain the individual until physical death.

Or would it be that they are just losing their comprehension skills? Since killing the mind and the contrast was the game, obviously one ends with people hardly in control over their concepts and reasoning. There are a great many examples of people ending like that. Will you make sure you are not ending like that?

This thread is about life after death. A person who attains to total purity of heart and mind so as to realize their omniscience knows death is but another attachment, as is birth, perhaps the two greatest attachments. That means that is one is free of every attachment, there is only LIFE.

But sadly, for you, the contrasts would still be there. Without attachments to trouble the water, the contrasts will become even sharper and better defined: painstakingly clear. Attachments are needed to blur it out of existence. This is why ignorance, like drugs, like violence, like the superficial and emotional are all deadening to perception and reason. And what is more pure than reason? Without it one wouldn't even know what purity was, or if one even existed!
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Re: Life after death

Postby Diebert van Rhijn » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:32 am

movingalways wrote:"Be therefore perfect, even as your Father [the whole of Creation] which is in heaven [as understood by the unconditioned Mind] is perfect."


It's better in the affirmative: you are perfect like the whole of creation already is at least when creation is understood rightly.
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Re: Life after death

Postby Diebert van Rhijn » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:40 am

jufa wrote: surely someone can direct me to a place when Consciousness is not found.

You have a heartbeat naturally. It's always there in the background, can't escape it! The day it stops, billions of hearts keep beating on. And yet about this amazing thing you do not write in the same way.

What happens to your consciousness at deep sleep? Where did it go? At least nobody would ever ask that about the heart. But what sound does a heart make if one is too distracted with dreams to even feel it?
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Re: Life after death

Postby jufa » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:54 am

Kunga wrote:
jufa wrote:Does being unconscious eliminate consciousness? Please explain or is this just your speculation. . .lol?


Please explain what you mean by consciousness.
What is it ?


It's meaning was of no importance when you dropped your
I hope you don't get knocked unconscious anytime soon....lol
Now all of a sudden when I asked you
Does being unconscious eliminate consciousness? Please explain or is this just your speculation. . .lol?
The question is not what is it? The question is what isn't it. Since you seem to know what unconscious is, howbeit you find difficulties in understanding unconscious' twin?

Kunga wrote:
jufa wrote:evolution could not emerge from a ball of fire,


Without the Sun...life as we know it would devolve.


What does that has to do with this planet beginning in fire?

Never give power to anything a person believe is their source of strength - Jufa

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Re: Life after death

Postby jufa » Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:35 am

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:
jufa wrote: surely someone can direct me to a place when Consciousness is not found.

You have a heartbeat naturally. It's always there in the background, can't escape it! The day it stops, billions of hearts keep beating on. And yet about this amazing thing you do not write in the same way.

What happens to your consciousness at deep sleep? Where did it go? At least nobody would ever ask that about the heart. But what sound does a heart make if one is too distracted with dreams to even feel it?


What does a heartbeat have to do with consciousness? But let's not stop here. You had no heartbeat before you were conceived, but the very instant of your conception consciousness got busy in the creation of Diebert. Was not consciousness the governing Spirit which assured every detail of Diebert, our your heart? Where did it come from? Where had it been? Where will it go when that spot of Diebert does not physically occupy that space? There was no space called Diebert in the beginning, so how did Diebert come to occupy that space which, one day will be no more his? Was consciousness there all the while? Or did something conjure it up from????

You want to talk about it. I'm open to your viewpoint.

Never give power to anything a person believe is their source of strength - Jufa

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Re: Life after death

Postby DonaldJ » Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:52 am

"What can be seen is how one invents oneself as the hero in one's own project."


________________________________________


YikeS! if you don't, if you aren't your own hero, you've got absolutely nothing but the shit the culture force-feeds you...

I suppose the norm is to "reject & eject the self for the many"..?
To deny the "ego", which is why you try to live and stay alive, you have rejected your reflection...
Without the ego, one wouldn't eat nor clean itself, nor even lick itself..
Confucius say: Man who have shit on tongue, have clean bum...

From what I've seen, we have an "ego" before we have a heartbeat... From what I saw it seems the sudden trauma the sperm did to the egg in "attacking" it with violent gusto, is the "spark" that initiated & established the ego and the mind.. which without, there is no "Life"...

In high school, I happened to get my girlfriend pregnant.. Two minutes after conception, I saw the baby at 3-months sitting on a blanket, staring deeply into my eyes, as if acknowledging me as "daddy", with all the respect and wonderment a baby does..
I said to her "congratulations, it's a girl.. She has red hair"... She said "You can't know that already.. but maybe You can..?" She had witnessed some of my magic over the years.. We weren't matched enough to make a life together, so we talked about, and decided to split... She married, and sent me a photo of our baby girl in exactly the same pose exactly the same as I saw in my little vision, as if a year previous I was viewing a pix from the future... From what I saw in that conception, I could write ten books about...
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Re: Life after death

Postby Dennis Mahar » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:22 am

YikeS! if you don't, if you aren't your own hero, you've got absolutely nothing but the shit the culture force-feeds you...


If you aren't your own hero in a conditioned mind with a project doesn't automatically get you absolutely nothing but the shit culture force feeds you.

It gets you absolutely nothing.
Absence of meaning.

What's your soap opera Donald?

This? :
Master of the Universe?
haranguing others for their stupidity?
Why won't you listen to me?
My project is doomed to failure because you critters are demon infested, blood sucking vampires.
Poor, poor pitiful me.
Fuck you, I'll drop my body and it serves you right. You'll rot in hell.
Okay I'll stick around if I get a few cheers from the peanut gallery.

What a day for a daydream.
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Re: Life after death

Postby DonaldJ » Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:22 am

That's how you do it, as far as I can understand..
You speak it in the terms the masses can understand.. You speak it their ways.. is what I've been trying to do.. Anything else they can't even begin to grasp... Dennis, you sure do shit well from your mouth... and given that your mouth is so close to your nose.. do you smell the shit too..?
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Re: Life after death

Postby Dennis Mahar » Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:28 am

That's how you do it, as far as I can understand..


Yeah, as far as you can understand.

Dennis, you sure do shit well from your mouth... and given that your mouth is so close to your nose.. do you smell the shit too..?


That kind of thing is all you've got really,
when it's boiled down.
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Re: Life after death

Postby Kunga » Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:39 am

jufa wrote:The question is not what is it? The question is what isn't it. Since you seem to know what unconscious is, howbeit you find difficulties in understanding unconscious' twin?


I asked you : :What is consciousness" because I want to know what your definition is. How do you define "consciousness " ?
Is it something more than just an awareness ? Obviously when you are unconscious, you are unaware. You are unaware of all the cells in your body, your DNA, your blood as individual corpusles , you are unconscious of practically all the things your body does inside that you can't see. We don't have to do much except breathe, eat & give our body food....it takes care of itself.......do you tell your heart to beat all day long ? We're not even conscious of our breathing all day long.....our body just does it...without us even thinking about it.

So what exactly is this consciousness that we are all suppose to be ?

What is it ?

God ?
The Tao?
The Void ?
Energy ?
Unknown ?

What do you think it is, Jufu ?
How can we have a discussion about consciousness if we don't know what it is ?
Are we just speculating ?

I really don't know what it is.
Sometimes I feel it intuitively.
But I don't know for sure if that's it or not.
Sometimes I think it's Pure Love.

What are your thoughts ?

Thank You.
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Re: Life after death

Postby DonaldJ » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:43 pm

Dearest K..

Me thinks "consciousness" is being open to what is in Life.. including the ability and openness to access and process the so called akachic records thingawhozitsabob.. which is like a stacked series of preformed wisdoms from here, from the genes given to us from the mother sun.. You solve one, and if you are open to reality as it is, but not as the mass delusion decrees, the next layer simply falls into place..
The problem and "curse" of it is that once you "gets the ball rolling", nothing can stop it..
Some days I get ten new inventions per day from it.. but years ago I quit documenting them, because I just don't have the means to build any of it, and probably never will the ways things have been going, and the apes are torturing me causing me tiny heart attacks, so it seems I'll be dead very soon, and won't have built anything for humanity, because I can't get through the demon's stifling and destroying science and reality and my life... I expect that neanderthal to murder me every and any day, to appease his insanity and need to feed on good, and his desperation to feel power over life and love...

In topic "consciousness", me thinks there's ways to instantly open oneself to the AkaRecords.. but I can't look at it at this moment, given the evil that attacks me, because it would get it too.. and we can't be giving powers to assholes...

In this I tried an experiment to prove it.. I cleared my mind, and concocted a weird thing that no one would think of...
In the dream's vision I established an 18th century stage, with 150 people in the audience.. The room was dimly lit, about 10% brightness...
I entered the stage dressed as a magician.. bowed, got my applause.. and created a mindform of a 150 foot long maroon dragon, which slowly moved its head over the audience, and clamped its mouth over a patron, who instantly released his bowels in his seat, and died of a heart attack... In the experiment, I wrote it up, and folded it, and filed it, and never spoke of it, nor thought of it... 9-months later there was a stage show, with a magician having his giant paper-machea maroon dragon swoop over the audience... Is why I have never solved the big sciences I saw.. I knew when I was 14 that mindless demonic parasites would be trying to suck it out of my brain like they are trying.. Is why I burned 80-thousand pages of notes on new sciences after the neanderthals indicated they wanted to steal my notes, expecting they could understand my stuff, and make lots of money on the sciences I know... Problem with their thinking, is that there is no way in their hell that they could understand any of it, even if I were to dictate it to them like "feeding pablum to a baby"...
I was being attacked by those parasites day and night for twenty years.. When a demon attacks to suck on one's brain, one feels it like an isolated sharp stingy migraine.. Over the years I developed a system to stop them from sucking on my brain.. The moment I feels one connect, I brands it as food for hell, and I slashes my cosmic sword clean through its spirit-neck, which instantly disconnects it from anything afterlife related.. The spirit is the afterlife...
In my research to deal with those life-sucking demons, I tried garlic, from what I saw in vampire movies..
I would feel the sting, and rush to fetch a fresh garlic clove, cut it in half, and rub it on the sting, then monitor it.. There were a lot of times I felt the demon violently disconnect, but they would always return, or reposition.. I had no op but to find ways to dispose of them permanently.. They don't connect anymore.. It's a sweet freedom having eliminated the parasites... Given that the garlic worked, I had no option but to label them "vampires".. I did meet a real vampire about twenty years ago.. The little bugger bit me.. I killed it... Have you ever seen those "Bagwan wooden medallions?..

These new sciences are fully accessible to everybody with a functional mind... You refine your sensitivities down to the sub-microscopic world.. You know you're there when you see the insides of DNA molecules with your body's electron microscope.. Then you learn to communicate with you master DNA molecule in you, the one that holds you together as Life & Love... In this molecule is written all the science humanity will explore... Absolute Consciousness is absolute freedom... Democracy and Religion stifles consciousness and freedom... I cannot find one shred of proof that democracy and religion are not hell itself...
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Re: Life after death

Postby DonaldJ » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:50 pm

Dennis.. Your shit post was for you... Most of your posts are for you, and about you... You are "shooting from the slime in the bottom of the barrel"... a "Christian" I presume...
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Re: Life after death

Postby Kunga » Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:05 pm

DonaldJ wrote: Mr. K..


I'm a female dear....... :)



DonaldJ wrote: "consciousness" is being open to what is in Life.. including the ability and openness to access and process the so called akachic records thingawhozitsabob


But, what exactly is consciousness ? WHAT IS IT ? What is it made out of ? Is it a Universal Mind that we tap into ? Are we all connected by this Universal Mind ?
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Re: Life after death

Postby Dennis Mahar » Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:31 pm

Dennis.. Your shit post was for you... Most of your posts are for you, and about you... You are "shooting from the slime in the bottom of the barrel"... a "Christian" I presume...


More of the same.
What else have you got?
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Re: Life after death

Postby DonaldJ » Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:33 pm

oops!.. "Her Majesty K"..

I'm feel so embarrassed.. please forgive me your highness...
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Re: Life after death

Postby DonaldJ » Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:35 pm

Dennis.. I have nothing that you could understand.. I have nothing for you.. You are a bully sir.. I dislike bullys as much as I dislike the smell of poop... Please go away... Go to the neighbors, and pull the head off their cat...
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Re: Life after death

Postby Dennis Mahar » Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:38 pm

Dennis.. I have nothing that you could understand.. I have nothing for you.. You are a bully sir.. I dislike bullys as much as I dislike the smell of poop... Please go away... Go to the neighbors, and pull the head off their cat...


More of the same.
What else have you got?
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