Tomas you may find this interesting

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.

Tomas you may find this interesting

Postby jufa » Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:53 am

The following came from a conversation I had in, well you'll see when.

Sent: 6/27/2003 9:00 AM
Let's assume your name is Seph and let us see whether an apperception of what is the case is possible.

For that a good place to start is at the beginning, isn't it?

It's a different matter that there is no beginning, but let's take for the moment, the beginning of Seph to be,.. when a sperm raced to engage in a hip-hop with a coy ovum, .....succeeded .......and hey presto a unique DNA-gene template was formed.

That unique DNA-gene template, was a the end-result of the genetic contributions coming from both the sperm and the ovum and since the sperm and ovum themselves are the culmination of another hip-hop, at another point of time and that of another further back in time,......

..........I trust you can see that the body-mind complex, the psycho-somatic 3 D object, reading this post on his PC screen,.......

........is a culmination of eternity itself, .........expressed as "so".


Now this gene-template which was formed, just like a particular "wave" appears to be formed out of the Ocean (appears, not real),...........

...this gene-template, through a mysterious intelligence of it's own, of such mind-boggling proportions, (can you imagine the unimaginable complexity that is involved in making your nose to that precise shape it is, or the color of your eyes, or in the manufacture of that lovely shaped kidneys inside you, or to run the neurological system which allows you to read this post and maybe make some sense) ........

............through that mysterious Grace, the gene-template reaches fruitation and screaming, yelling it's spewed out.

The Big-Bang, in it's miniature form.

The gene-template, continues to grow psycho-somatically.

And during this nurturance stage, the gene-template continues to be impacted by conditioning-inputs from the external environ, which shape it, alter it, amend it, evolve it.

What are these impacting inputs?

Parental dictates from their own conditioning, ........prevailing environ in the home, ...

......experiences both in home and outside, both the "good" ones and the "horrible" ones, .....

.....education or lack of one, .....

....social/religious/spiritual/communal/nation ethos which was prevailing in the immediate environ in which the nurturing was taking place, ......

....influences by media, friends, accepted icons of authority/trust,..........etc etc etc.

Each and every one impacts that gene-template, even now continues to, to form what is the prevailing, intrinsic innate conditioning-in-the-moment.

Now this conditioning-in-the-moment is not something which is etched in stone, sometime in some Dark Ages.

The arriving input, alters the existing conditioning AND the fashioned response once again alters the conditioning, in the very process itself.

(You would have definitely had moments, when moved by the situation, something got done through Seph, which he would have never dreamed to be ever doing in the past)

It's like a dynamic loop.

A Yin-Yang dance.

That is why the term conditioning-in-the-moment, and not conditioning which connotes some static etchings in Dark Ages stone.



Which is what "runs" the psycho-somatic object.

By "runs it", I don't mean the biological functions which carry on quite irrespective of "you", but really the way Seph views the world, how he creates a mental image of the input that arrives from the world (i.e. an E mail, or a sexual assault), .........and how a response arises TO that self-created image of that input.

Remember Seph's response is never to the external input per se, but to Seph's created image of that input, both the creating and the responding, "fashioned" by the conditioning-in-the-moment.

BOTH.

Now, we have been using this convention of a "Seph", creating an image, responding etc etc, as if there is an independent self, apart from the body-mind complex.

There is nothing like "Seph" in the psycho-somatic apparatus know by society as "Seph".

Just a notion, which feels so real, so real, that it has "real" problems, "real" issues, ........it suffers, grieves, gets angry, screams at the injustice of "his" Life.

It is completely hilarious, but till the hilarity has bubbled up, ..........it's like a continuous sinking in deep shit.

So how does this notion appear to come about?

What you see around are conditioned responsive psycho-somatic objects, whether they are labeled "an interesting rock-piece", ..........."the Petunia Rose", ..........or an " orange assed orangutan" .......or a "human".

Psycho-somatic objects with varying attributes.

The real attribute which vary among all the species is the attribute of sentience, which is the ability to cognize an "other" separate to yourself and create a mental image of that "other",..... to be then responded to.

In the objects labeled "humans" sentience is at the relative maximum.

With that relatively maximum sentience, the human object, has further embedded flavours, which is the intellect, i.e. the ability to discriminate between all the cognized "others".

The discrimination of sentience itself which is also present to a limited extent in an animal, which can discriminate between a "friendly/safe" other and an "other" which poses danger/threat.

In the cognition of the other, and in the discrimination inter-alia all these "others", is born the sense of the cognizer-self.

The subject which observes it's objects of cognition.

Thus is the sense of the individual self, which is nothing but an identification with a particular biological body-mind object as a separated object from all other objects.......

AND

.......the identification to the name which that particular biological body-mind object carries.

(You Seph do not feed your sister's body-mind apparatus, when you note hunger pangs in "your" apparatus, do you?.........When her boyfriend calls for her by her name, you dont' respond, do you?)


This self, or this identification does not come at birth, but some time in the first 3 years.

Notice an infant, falling down, will cry "It hurts", not "I am hurt".

The sense of the self, has not yet appeared.

Now in this sense of the separated individual self, arrives another flavour, the sense of personal doership.

The sense which is made up of strands like...

It is me, which thinks, it is me which chooses/discerns/decides.

It is me, which acts on the decision made.

It is me, which succeeds with the action towards again a self-conceived objective/goal and hence me is joyous, the world is a beautiful expression of God Almighty.

It is me which fails with the action opposite that self-conceived objective/goal and Life/God/everybody sucks.


The concretization of these strands, makes up the "me".

Which is what suffers, elates, agonizes, is fearful, is insecure, is anxious, is insecure.



Now comes along all these spiritual Gurus who says, observe, witness, don't get attached, etc, without ever explaining what the hell they are talking about.

Impacting input--->created image by conditioning-in-the-moment-----> fashioned response,............is going on, in the moment.

Moment to moment to moment.

Whether you are ruddy "sage" or a "regular-at-the-corner-pub".


Observing this functioning,..... from behind a cocoon of an agenda of the "me" (made up by the thousands of "this should happen", "that should not happen") .........is being identified with the functioning.

For obviously with an agenda, you will either be,..... joyous in the moment and next moment you will be pissed of, .........one moment you see Life as a bed of roses, another moment that same Life is a cesspool filled with sexual deviants.


Sometimes, in a particular moment .........all of a sudden, .......non-volitionally, acasually,.....even this agenda "gets seen" for what it is,

This seeing is without an agenda,...........ie. there is no "Oh Shit, the existing agenda is bad,...Seph is such an horrible person for doing this, thinking this, lusting such,... etc etc........ or it is "good", I am on a spiritual seeking spree, why can't everybody see the surrounding halo, etc etc

Nothing of all that.

Just a gestalt of indifferent observing of the functioning,....... which is anyway happening through a psycho-somatic apparatus, through an instrument

AND

the indifference observing antics of the "me-Seph", with that functioning in the moment.

This gestalt of observing, which obviously a "me" cannot do,because there is no existing agenda......which happens sometimes, in the moment, ................when it is prevailing moment to moment to moment to moment,....

....is the witnessing gestalt.



Which also witnesses the functioning and the antics through the various cognized "other-apparatuses" around it,.... as it does the functioning through "it's" apparatus.

There is no difference between "one own's" apparatus and the apparatus of the neighbour.


And a click...............the apperception happens that it is the SAME impersonal functioning, which is running all objects, all apparatuses, whether it is the Milky Way or a struggling ant, ........whether it is a rock functioning in stillness, or the frenzy of the human object labeled "Seph".

Same, just like the electricty which runs through a revolving fan, a heating coil, the TV set, the refrigerator, the electric vibrator.

The same animating energy-in-vibration, which "runs" all these so uniquley different apparatuses.

And in the case of Totality, ...........apart from running them, .....is ALSO the very apparatuses, ...."so" expressed.

The objective expressions of the electricity,.......... is the vibrator and the refrigerator.



Now reading these squiggly signs on a PC screen,.........the me-Seph immediately jumps up and asks who is doing that witnessing in the witnessing gestalt.

All questions of a "who", only arise to a "me" .

The answer is extraordinary simple.

Use any term for the "who"

Bozo the Clown is as good a term as Consciousness.



Each manifest "object", whether a silly stone lying in the rain, or a struggling artist desperately anguishing to express THAT painting, .....

.....whether a clerk in an organization, or one which popular media has labeled as a "sage", ...

......whether a humping cat on a tin-roof or an exploding Super-Nova with the brilliance of a million suns...

.....each is a singing, ..............being uniquely sung.

You are not a person Seph.

There are no persons as static discrete events.

You are a "particular" process, getting enacted out.

There are no static discrete events.

There is a seamless "eventing", .........with infinte nuances, all of which mesh together in a fantastic harmony,......... to produce a symphony of infinite proportions.

And this seamless symphonic mosaic,........


.......AS-IF.
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Re: Tomas you may find this interesting

Postby Tomas » Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:00 am

Thank you. I'll read it when I get home tonight.

With some green tea laced with hawaiian sugar cane.

I'm also making cookies.

Barack Obama is the long-prophesied biblical Antichrist.

The final war is about to erupt in the Persian Gulf.
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Re: Tomas you may find this interesting

Postby Talking Ass » Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:53 am

Fun Things To Do With the Kids While Waiting For Armaggedon.

1) Bake cookies! We all have about 25 years of survival supplies and if you were on the ball you stocked up on raw sugar and grated orange peel. While the storm clouds of horror darken outside the boarded up windows and a lingering sulphuric odor comes in through the cracks, get the kids involved in good wholesome fun while the Evil One stalks the land!

2) Play "Who's Afraid of Our Darkie President?" When sCaRy things happen in the world all around us, not the least being that an African man was elected president of our White Republic, remind the kids that it is not the color of his skin that terrifies, but the darkness in his darkened heart! Get the kids involved in skits where they fall on the ground (like in The Crucible by Henry Miller) and writhe on the floor foaming at the mouth at the thought of the 'darkened heart' of Obama. This helps pass the time while the Satanic Armies approach.

3) Play 'Envision Evil'. This is one of my favorites and our kids are nearly ADDICTED to it! It's very imaginative and wholesome. Take a stuffed animal and darken the lights (if you still have electricity!). Everyone chant in dark tones and then someone scream bloody murder to really get the adrenaline flowing! Then, focus on that little stuffed bunny and 'see' it become the vessel of an Unimaginable Evil. Have everyone close their eyes while you hide the bunny somewhere. And then: Have a Witchhunt! When you find it, mercillessly destroy it! Allow the kids to rip apart the l'il critter with their sharp l'il kid's teeth!
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Re: Tomas you may find this interesting

Postby Tomas » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:39 am

-Jufa-
There are no static discreet events.

-tomas-
Explain this. I've somewhat different impression (thought) but you go first, Jufa.

PS - I'm making more variety cookies (for Valentine Day handouts) the girls like this special recipe. I should have explained this in the first go-a-round but to burn 18 cookies per pan is such a waste .. only the neighbor dogs and squirrels will eat them then.
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Re: Tomas you may find this interesting

Postby jufa » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:12 am

Tomas wrote:-Jufa-
There are no static discreet events.

-tomas-
Explain this. I've somewhat different impression (thought) but you go first, Jufa.

PS - I'm making more variety cookies (for Valentine Day handouts) the girls like this special recipe. I should have explained this in the first go-a-round but to burn 18 cookies per pan is such a waste .. only the neighbor dogs and squirrels will eat them then.


All thoughts are static energy. How does one differentiate energy, only by labeling it. But labeling energy does not change its static composition. If it does, show how.

How can anything be a waste when fulfillment of absorption; a recycling purpose will occur one way or another?

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa


http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com
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Re: Tomas you may find this interesting

Postby ForbidenRea » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:16 pm

God, is dead-

Nietzche
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Re: Tomas you may find this interesting

Postby Talking Ass » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:57 pm

...and we killed Him!
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Re: Tomas you may find this interesting

Postby jufa » Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:14 am

ForbidenRea wrote:God, is dead-

Nietzche



Nietzchel did not directly say this, so why are you mis-quoting/representing him?

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa


http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com
Last edited by jufa on Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Tomas you may find this interesting

Postby jufa » Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:22 am

Talking Ass wrote:...and we killed Him!


They haven't been able to tell me yet who the coroner was that pronounced him dead.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa


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Re: Tomas you may find this interesting

Postby Kunga » Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:40 am

What is your source of strength fufa ?
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Re: Tomas you may find this interesting

Postby jufa » Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:09 am

Kunga wrote:What is your source of strength fufa ?


The source of all men strength Junga, is in the Spirit which it is projected out to the utmost parts of their inner universe, for they receive the energy of the thought back as sent out. Weakness and strength is in the Spirit of the thought life one lives.


Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com
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Re: Tomas you may find this interesting

Postby Kunga » Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:32 am

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - fufa


This means, that whatever you say is fluff ?
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Re: Tomas you may find this interesting

Postby jufa » Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:47 am

Junga wrote:Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - fufa


This means, that whatever you say is fluff ?


Works for me!

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa


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Re: Tomas you may find this interesting

Postby Kunga » Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:15 am

jufa wrote:
ForbidenRea wrote:God, is dead-

Nietzche



Nietzchel did not directly say this, so why are you mis-quoting/representing him?

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa


http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com



So.... why the hell are you mis-spelling him !?


lol....i'm just playing with you jufa....xoxox

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Re: Tomas you may find this interesting

Postby jufa » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:11 am

Kunga wrote:
jufa wrote:
ForbidenRea wrote:God, is dead-

Nietzche



Nietzchel did not directly say this, so why are you mis-quoting/representing him?

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa


http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com



So.... why the hell are you mis-spelling him !?


lol....i'm just playing with you jufa....xoxox

~Bunga


Do you think I offended Him?

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

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Re: Tomas you may find this interesting

Postby Kunga » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:30 am

jufa wrote:
Do you think I offended Him?




Offended whom ?

Who's Him ? (Why the capital "H" ?)
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Re: Tomas you may find this interesting

Postby Alex Jacob » Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:32 pm

You are the coroner that pronounces God dead. As am I, as is the whole world, even the "truly faithful". We have undermined the cogent language-system by which we designate and describe God. If we speak about God we are mostly forced to resort to the 'graveyard of language'.

Certainly the old (Biblical, etc.) fable-book view of God with Jesus on his right hand no longer functions...

The fables.about miracles, resurrections, etc. only function metaphorically...

Suddenly we find ourselves.talking gibberish.

How shall we theologize God?
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Re: Tomas you may find this interesting

Postby Kunga » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:53 pm

God is mans misconception.
As far as miracles go....walking on water, raising the dead, changing water to wine, feeding the masses with a loaf of bread,
Yogis can preform these things.
Jesus was a yogi.
So was Buddha.
When you understand how to manipulate phenomena (not even scientists can do that),
you have reached a level of evolution beyound human....you have transended human evolution.
(That's how I see it anyways.)
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Re: Tomas you may find this interesting

Postby jufa » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:56 pm

Alex Jacob wrote:You are the coroner that pronounces God dead. As am I, as is the whole world, even the "truly faithful". We have undermined the cogent language-system by which we designate and describe God. If we speak about God we are mostly forced to resort to the 'graveyard of language'.

Certainly the old (Biblical, etc.) fable-book view of God with Jesus on his right hand no longer functions...

The fables.about miracles, resurrections, etc. only function metaphorically...

Suddenly we find ourselves.talking gibberish.

How shall we theologize God?


How can one kill a metaphor while living that metaphor? Yet in the living cannot see, hear, touch, taste, or smell that metaphor in order to eliminate, or kill the divinity [Spirit of life beyond one control] of it, no less the metaphor itself when the metaphor is life? Does not the sub-conscious objectify God as a subject?

How can one theologize God? By making God an object?

Gibberish is all words all the time, in wisdom and knowledge when one does not know who, what, when, where, and why = life.

Life of man is metaphorically a miracle when considering this planet began as a ball of fire.

Old biblical fables may, or may not work for you. However, being every thing is formed from energy of thought, old fables may or may not function. Can anyone say definitively, beyond gibberish, they do not function contemporaneous?

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa


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Re: Tomas you may find this interesting

Postby mental vagrant » Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:33 am

Talking Ass wrote:Fun Things To Do With the Kids While Waiting For Armaggedon.

1) Bake cookies! We all have about 25 years of survival supplies and if you were on the ball you stocked up on raw sugar and grated orange peel. While the storm clouds of horror darken outside the boarded up windows and a lingering sulphuric odor comes in through the cracks, get the kids involved in good wholesome fun while the Evil One stalks the land!

2) Play "Who's Afraid of Our Darkie President?" When sCaRy things happen in the world all around us, not the least being that an African man was elected president of our White Republic, remind the kids that it is not the color of his skin that terrifies, but the darkness in his darkened heart! Get the kids involved in skits where they fall on the ground (like in The Crucible by Henry Miller) and writhe on the floor foaming at the mouth at the thought of the 'darkened heart' of Obama. This helps pass the time while the Satanic Armies approach.

3) Play 'Envision Evil'. This is one of my favorites and our kids are nearly ADDICTED to it! It's very imaginative and wholesome. Take a stuffed animal and darken the lights (if you still have electricity!). Everyone chant in dark tones and then someone scream bloody murder to really get the adrenaline flowing! Then, focus on that little stuffed bunny and 'see' it become the vessel of an Unimaginable Evil. Have everyone close their eyes while you hide the bunny somewhere. And then: Have a Witchhunt! When you find it, mercillessly destroy it! Allow the kids to rip apart the l'il critter with their sharp l'il kid's teeth!


XD
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Re: Tomas you may find this interesting

Postby Alex Jacob » Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:39 am

I thought, MV, you might appreciate this: "Never start with the head, the victim gets all fuzzy..."
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Re: Tomas you may find this interesting

Postby mental vagrant » Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:59 am

Hahaha, it's great, and very timely, as rivers keep crossing.

:)
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Re: Tomas you may find this interesting

Postby ForbidenRea » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:35 am

jufa wrote:
ForbidenRea wrote:God, is dead-

Nietzche



Nietzchel did not directly say this, so why are you mis-quoting/representing him?

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa


http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com

Have you seen the wars I've been dreaming of lately?
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