Intuition and the Wordless Nerve

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.

Intuition and the Wordless Nerve

Postby uncledote » Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:30 am

Malcom Gladwell tells in his book Blink4 the story of an art dealer, Gianfranco Becchina, that was in possession of a kouros marble statue from the sixth century BC. Becchina approached the J. Paul Getty Museum in California with an asking price of ten million dollars for the mentioned statue. The museum took it on loan and started a thorough analysis of the statue including x-rays, mass spectrometry and electron microscopy, after almost two years of research, the statue was deemed by the scientists to be authentic and the museum trustees gave the green light to its acquisition for their collection of Greek sculpture for seven million dollars.

Evelyn Harrison was one of the world's foremost experts on Greek sculpture and was taken to see the work. When she first saw it she declared that something was wrong with it within seconds. She couldn't explain what it was, so it was dismissed as a hunch. Thomas Hoving of the Metropolitan Museum in New York was taken to see the kouros as well and the first word that crossed his mind was "fresh". Hardly something one should expect to get from a statue that was supposedly two thousand years old. He had spent much of his youth digging on Greek sites and his experience told him that the statue was a fake. The museum showed the results of the scientific probing the statue had gone through that hinted at its authenticity, yet Hoving remained unimpressed.

The kouros was taken off display and traveled around the world and expert after expert agreed that the kouros was unusual. Many declared to have felt a kind of "intuitive repulsion" towards the statue.

The Getty Museum was making great efforts to unveil the authenticity of the piece. Further research on the legal aspects of the acquisition, showed that some of the certificates of provenance that came with the piece were fake. After many months of research, the origins of the statue were traced back to the workshop of a forger in Rome that probably produced it in the 1980s. In the Getty's catalogue there's a picture of the kouros with the notation "About 530BC, or modern forgery"5.

The point of this story is not so much about the origin of the sculpture as it is about the fact that Harrison and Hoving were capable of unveiling it within a few seconds of seeing it. They couldn't explain exactly what was disconcerting them and they couldn't back up their statements of it being a fake with unequivocal evidence. They didn't know why they knew. But their "intuitive repulsion" was ultimately proven to be correct.

These unknown knowns are the stuff of which our intuitions, prejudices and superstitions are made of. And they are an essential component in belief. They conform what I like to call the wordless nerve, mind you this is not an actual part of our nervous system. But those aspects of our subconscious that don't manifest themselves in cogent thought. We often associate it with the gut, so much so that gut feeling is a common phrase used to speak of this sort of emotional response. The expression gut feeling is worn thin by use. The concept of the wordless nerve is more subtle. It is more closely related to the aesthetic experience than the often derisive gut feeling.

One could argue that this wordless nerve is where visual art comes from, the fine threading between thought and the gut feeling. Anyone that has ever painted for some time, knows that there are certain aspects in a painting that one cannot explain where they come from. Wherever they come from, it is a place where words cease to exist. It is such that it can only be shown, it cannot be spoken about.
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Re: Intuition and the Wordless Nerve

Postby mental vagrant » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:48 am

I think Dennis Mahar was speaking of the WN in another topic, the intuition that cannot yet be converted to language.
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Re: Intuition and the Wordless Nerve

Postby movingalways » Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:08 am

Intuition can indeed be converted into language. Every poet and great spirit seer knows the language of intuition.
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Re: Intuition and the Wordless Nerve

Postby mental vagrant » Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:53 am

mental vagrant wrote:I think Dennis Mahar was speaking of the WN in another topic, the intuition that cannot yet be converted to language.
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Re: Intuition and the Wordless Nerve

Postby Dennis Mahar » Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:08 am

It can only be 'fake' in a Context.

like, human being is a Context for 'fake' to show up in.

how can fake be fake without a Context?

See how Reason works better.
Intuition was intuiting about an illusion.
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Re: Intuition and the Wordless Nerve

Postby mental vagrant » Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:16 am

Dennis Mahar wrote:It can only be 'fake' in a Context.

like, human being is a Context for 'fake' to show up in.

how can fake be fake without a Context?


See how Reason works better.
Intuition was intuiting about an illusion.


I completely agree, the imaginary objects are equally real.

Which illusion?
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Re: Intuition and the Wordless Nerve

Postby mental vagrant » Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:19 am

Sorry the illusion of fakeness, yes.
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Re: Intuition and the Wordless Nerve

Postby Dennis Mahar » Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:59 am

Warning
going very deep here.
could lose our minds with a bit of luck.
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Re: Intuition and the Wordless Nerve

Postby mental vagrant » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:23 pm

I lost my mind as a child, i'm an alien
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Re: Intuition and the Wordless Nerve

Postby cousinbasil » Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:42 am

@uncledote
The incidents regarding the Greek statue you related above are similar to what I have witnessed many times. For a number of years I managed a major Asian art gallery in NYC. The owners were a husband-wife team, each highly regarded and sought-after experts in the field. Often a client would be interested in a Tang figure (horse, camel, etc.) but be concerned about authenticity and ask if the piece had been TL (Thermo-Luminescence) tested. In most cases, it would not have been. The gallery owners relied on their experience when purchasing or representing a piece. If there was a last word on a piece's authenticity, they figured they were it. Their response would be a TL test is unnecessary since they know the piece is correct. Should the client buy the piece and decide to TL test it and the test say otherwise, they would not only buy the fake back but would pay for the test. The ostensible reason for not doing a TL test is that it is invasive - it leaves a little hole in the figure. The real reason was TL testing is not cheap, and the gallery owners built a reputation on their expertise.

It seems that intuition in such a case is the same as expertise. One judges by every method at one's disposal. The look of the object, the feel, even scratch and sniff (for example, plastic can be made to look and feel like amber - but it won't smell like amber, which should have no odor.) If the object doesn't feel right, an expert will usually be able to say why.

I often have an initial reaction to pieces of Asian art now as to authenticity, such as ceramic plates. If the ceramic plate is European, my "intuition" fails entirely.
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Re: Intuition and the Wordless Nerve

Postby jupiviv » Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:01 am

uncledote wrote:These unknown knowns are the stuff of which our intuitions, prejudices and superstitions are made of. And they are an essential component in belief.


Not in a belief in logic, and that is the only kind of belief I want to have. A person having an intuition reaches a desired conclusion without knowing certain things related to it that other people later find out. That's all there is to it. Any person who spends a lot of time doing something will naturally have at least some intuitions about whatever it is they are doing.
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Re: Intuition and the Wordless Nerve

Postby Dennis Mahar » Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:59 am

The Universe is composed of matter, energy, space and time,
and significance.

Guess who provides significance?

Human Being.

I don't care if a vase is Tang, tong ting greek or belgian.
doesn't matter if it's fresh or ancient.
It's a collection of molecules,
a collection of atoms,
a collection of sub atomic particles,
a collection of signifiers that leads to nothing.

Human Being is a Context.
Meaning Maker.
In the bullshit business.
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Re: Intuition and the Wordless Nerve

Postby Tomas » Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:05 am

cousinbasil wrote:@uncledote
The incidents regarding the Greek statue you related above are similar to what I have witnessed many times. For a number of years I managed a major Asian art gallery in NYC. The owners were a husband-wife team, each highly regarded and sought-after experts in the field. Often a client would be interested in a Tang figure (horse, camel, etc.) but be concerned about authenticity and ask if the piece had been TL (Thermo-Luminescence) tested. In most cases, it would not have been. The gallery owners relied on their experience when purchasing or representing a piece. If there was a last word on a piece's authenticity, they figured they were it. Their response would be a TL test is unnecessary since they know the piece is correct. Should the client buy the piece and decide to TL test it and the test say otherwise, they would not only buy the fake back but would pay for the test. The ostensible reason for not doing a TL test is that it is invasive - it leaves a little hole in the figure. The real reason was TL testing is not cheap, and the gallery owners built a reputation on their expertise.

It seems that intuition in such a case is the same as expertise. One judges by every method at one's disposal. The look of the object, the feel, even scratch and sniff (for example, plastic can be made to look and feel like amber - but it won't smell like amber, which should have no odor.) If the object doesn't feel right, an expert will usually be able to say why.

I often have an initial reaction to pieces of Asian art now as to authenticity, such as ceramic plates. If the ceramic plate is European, my "intuition" fails entirely.

You too? Brokenhead was a manager of an Asian art gallery, in New York, too.

The odds.
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Re: Intuition and the Wordless Nerve

Postby mental vagrant » Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:19 am

Dennis Mahar wrote:The Universe is composed of matter, energy, space and time,
and significance.

Guess who provides significance?

Human Being.

I don't care if a vase is Tang, tong ting greek or belgian.
doesn't matter if it's fresh or ancient.
It's a collection of molecules,
a collection of atoms,
a collection of sub atomic particles,
a collection of signifiers that leads to nothing.

Human Being is a Context.
Meaning Maker.
In the bullshit business.


Why do you insist on posting the same formula, time after time. What purpose does it serve? I suppose none, and that's why you repeat yourself?
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Re: Intuition and the Wordless Nerve

Postby cousinbasil » Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:36 am

Tomas wrote:You too? Brokenhead was a manager of an Asian art gallery, in New York, too.

The odds.
Really? Maybe I knew him.
Will you get a life already?
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Re: Intuition and the Wordless Nerve

Postby Tomas » Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:28 am

cousinbasil wrote:
Tomas wrote:You too? Brokenhead was a manager of an Asian art gallery, in New York, too.

The odds.
Really? Maybe I knew him.
Will you get a life already?

True Mirror: non-reversing mirrors

Mirrors that reflect a true image than the typical reversed image. Features references and press releases as well as a technical explanation.

True To Life, True To View
See What Others See In You!

http://www.truemirror.com


Once again, Brokie/Basil,
see below...

GENIUS FORUMS
Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment

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Re: Intuition and the Wordless Nerve

Postby Dennis Mahar » Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:54 am

Why do you insist on posting the same formula, time after time. What purpose does it serve? I suppose none, and that's why you repeat yourself?



Damn, why didn't I think of that?

You are a machine.

confront it.

cog in a wheel.

running with the herd.

tumblin, and rollin' in a fast moving river.

swept away.

the girls play dress ups
the boys play with guns

can you 'see' it?
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Re: Intuition and the Wordless Nerve

Postby Talking Ass » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:17 am

I managed a gallery in mid-town Manhatten from 1987-1991. Our thrust was Japanese art but we also sold many many different styles and traditions of Asian art. You sell what you can sell. There was another guy who posted around the time that I first signed on who managed a gallery in the NY area, but he didn't say what style of art he sold and if it was in Manhatten. I have a few emails into brokenhead (believe me, for otherthe reasons!) but have not heard back for a couple of weeks. Stranger coincidences have occurred. David worked in a gallery in Melbourne actually.

Cousin, please pm me, I am really curious to know where you worked!
fiat mihi
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Re: Intuition and the Wordless Nerve

Postby Dennis Mahar » Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:33 am

old men send the boys to war.

and bullshitters make and peddle art,
dwell intuitively,
captured by trinkets.

welcome to the machine.
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Re: Intuition and the Wordless Nerve

Postby Tomas » Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:53 pm

Talking Ass wrote:I managed a gallery in mid-town Manhatten from 1987-1991. Our thrust was Japanese art but we also sold many many different styles and traditions of Asian art. You sell what you can sell. There was another guy who posted around the time that I first signed on who managed a gallery in the NY area, but he didn't say what style of art he sold and if it was in Manhatten. I have a few emails into brokenhead (believe me, for otherthe reasons!) but have not heard back for a couple of weeks. Stranger coincidences have occurred. David worked in a gallery in Melbourne actually.

Cousin, please pm me, I am really curious to know where you worked!

You are one, strange cookie, Alex ;-)
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Re: Intuition and the Wordless Nerve

Postby Tomas » Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:04 pm

Dennis Mahar wrote:old men send the boys to war.

and bullshitters make and peddle art,
dwell intuitively,
captured by trinkets.

welcome to the machine.

This Brokie/Basil is an ignorant fool.

However, this Alex guy is downright funny and an excellent storyteller to boot!
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Re: Intuition and the Wordless Nerve

Postby Dennis Mahar » Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:24 pm

excellent storyteller


You've caught them out as liars and cheats Tomas.
well done!

bullshit artists.
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Re: Intuition and the Wordless Nerve

Postby cousinbasil » Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:01 pm

Dennis Mahar wrote:
excellent storyteller


You've caught them out as liars and cheats Tomas.
well done!

bullshit artists.

Tomas - looks like you finally got the butt-buddy you've wanted for so long. Once again, you are ignorant, you think you are clever, and your arm is still in a sling from patting yourself on the back.

And you Dennis, you are such a phony. You hypocrite. Everything is fucking meaningless except an old man's gossip and misguided personal vendettas. That's right - sit on your loathsome bloody arse and judge people who have actually done something with their lives.

old men send the boys to war.

and bullshitters make and peddle art,
dwell intuitively,
captured by trinkets.

welcome to the machine.

You are too lazy to use capital letters or form complete sentences. It's no wonder you are too lazy to find meaning in anything. I "geddit." I "grok." You are a bag of hot air who is threatened by ideas and by life itself.

Tomas I almost don't mind your ravings because although you accuse me of being a sock-puppet, you are more two-faced than any sock puppet. You suck up to authority (the way you drill your tongue up QRS ass-cracks)but will attack just about anyone else. The service makes people that way. Maybe being forced to kill at a young age does this to people. I never killed anyone, so I don't know. You get a mulligan for being the twisted creep that you are. But you would think you would get tired making a point that nobody gives a shit about. Oh, but not you. Sad to see that an old man spends so much time trying so hard to gossip about people he doesn't even know.
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Re: Intuition and the Wordless Nerve

Postby movingalways » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:43 am

Human Being is a Context.
Meaning Maker.
In the bullshit business.


The law is "no thought returns void." If bullshit is your interpretation, then bullshit is who you are. REALization of the moment, Meaning, IS the life of the man. Nothing is fake or unreal or an illusion, there is only the reality of Analysis of SELF [metaphor].
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Re: Intuition and the Wordless Nerve

Postby Dennis Mahar » Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:20 am

Quit sqealing basil.
you got sprung. fair enough?
the past is the past.
nevernomind.
the air is clear now.
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