are you smart?

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.

Re: are you smart?

Postby cousinbasil » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:36 pm

eyekwah wrote:To me, intelligence is simply inversely proportional to the realization of how little you understand of the world. In fact every time I hear someone claim to be strongly on one side of a clearly two-sided issue, I little part of me dies inside that hopes humanity can escape a nuclear apocalypse.

People have always been this way and we have avoided a nuclear holocaust so far. Although it is true that people will continue to be this way, and nukes have only been around for 60 years.

But what two sided issues do you mean? Something like the Arab-Israeli conflict? Almost by definition, there are two sides to that, but many highly intelligent people are strongly on one side or the other, namely Israelis and Arabs. When I hear someone merely claim to be, like a Pat Robertson, a piece inside of me dies as well.
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Re: are you smart?

Postby mental vagrant » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:54 pm

Dennis Mahar wrote:MA,
People are dumb because i'm not impressed by what i see, call it an inability to experience surprise.


You're not cognising your objects accurately.
To experience surprise is your responsibility.
It comes down to your 'listening'.
If you abrogate into a fixed, know-it-all, rigid way of being,
how can you be open to surprise, astonishment.

change your avatar from the defeated 'mental vagrant'
to
'Cogniser Class A'
and let's get some real action.
Go you good thing!


You raise an interesting point, how does surprise work for me? I'll start a new thread hoping you'll play.
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Re: are you smart?

Postby mental vagrant » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:56 pm

eyekwah wrote:To me, intelligence is simply inversely proportional to the realization of how little you understand of the world. In fact every time I hear someone claim to be strongly on one side of a clearly two-sided issue, I little part of me dies inside that hopes humanity can escape a nuclear apocalypse.


So i'm a neurotoxin to you then, there.

Change hopes humanity can escape a nuclear apocalypse for hopes humanity can escape in a nuclear apocalypse, and now your cooking ;)
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Re: are you smart?

Postby movingalways » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:32 am

mental vagrant wrote:
eyekwah wrote:To me, intelligence is simply inversely proportional to the realization of how little you understand of the world. In fact every time I hear someone claim to be strongly on one side of a clearly two-sided issue, I little part of me dies inside that hopes humanity can escape a nuclear apocalypse.


So i'm a neurotoxin to you then, there.

Change hopes humanity can escape a nuclear apocalypse for hopes humanity can escape in a nuclear apocalypse, and now your cooking ;)


If you are referring to escaping one's belief in being bound to a physical body, my understanding is that if one has not yet comprehended that they are the reason for their physicality, which is the reason why they think of an apocalypse, that should a physical apocalypse happen, that would not end the recycling of their rebirth into a physical or sentient body. I am That.
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Re: are you smart?

Postby mental vagrant » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:11 pm

movingalways wrote:
mental vagrant wrote:
eyekwah wrote:To me, intelligence is simply inversely proportional to the realization of how little you understand of the world. In fact every time I hear someone claim to be strongly on one side of a clearly two-sided issue, I little part of me dies inside that hopes humanity can escape a nuclear apocalypse.


So i'm a neurotoxin to you then, there.

Change hopes humanity can escape a nuclear apocalypse for hopes humanity can escape in a nuclear apocalypse, and now your cooking ;)


If you are referring to escaping one's belief in being bound to a physical body, my understanding is that if one has not yet comprehended that they are the reason for their physicality, which is the reason why they think of an apocalypse, that should a physical apocalypse happen, that would not end the recycling of their rebirth into a physical or sentient body. I am That.


Transhumanist spirituality?
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Re: are you smart?

Postby jupiviv » Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:58 pm

cousinbasil wrote:
jupiviv wrote:I will agree to lead the way, but if I do so then I get to decide what the way is!

Which never seems to work for very long.


People need to decide for themselves whether they want to be rational or not. One cannot force wisdom upon anyone.
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Re: are you smart?

Postby movingalways » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:34 am

mental vagrant wrote:
movingalways wrote:
mental vagrant wrote:
eyekwah wrote:To me, intelligence is simply inversely proportional to the realization of how little you understand of the world. In fact every time I hear someone claim to be strongly on one side of a clearly two-sided issue, I little part of me dies inside that hopes humanity can escape a nuclear apocalypse.


So i'm a neurotoxin to you then, there.

Change hopes humanity can escape a nuclear apocalypse for hopes humanity can escape in a nuclear apocalypse, and now your cooking ;)


If you are referring to escaping one's belief in being bound to a physical body, my understanding is that if one has not yet comprehended that they are the reason for their physicality, which is the reason why they think of an apocalypse, that should a physical apocalypse happen, that would not end the recycling of their rebirth into a physical or sentient body. I am That.


Transhumanist spirituality?


The term "transhumanist" is problematic because it implies that "humanism" has inherent existence. Which, by default, makes the term "spirituality" also problematic because it is an expression of humanism.

"Apocalypse" is a human interpretation of something believed. It is the believing that makes it a condition in the human mind. As long as this condition of the thought "human" and "apocalypse" exists in one's consciousness, one is "in" the "human apocalypse."

Consciousness attaches itself to idea [contracts] and detaches itself from idea [expands]. You are That. I am That. This is wisdom, plain and simple.
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Re: are you smart?

Postby alice144 » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:24 am

Trevor Salyzyn wrote:Alice, not saying I'm anything but fascinated by the starting point of this thread, its current direction, and all its possible outcomes, but I am curious: how long did you lurk before posting?


I refuse to simply be an observer on the sidelines of life! Action is my by-word! And Shadowfax the name of my trusty steed!

mental vagrant wrote:You want to talk but you're killing potential dialogue. My view is the following, everyone is dumb.


Dan Rowden isn't dumb. He's discovered the meaning of life and the path to enlightenment.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

No, but seriously, I think that there some directions which aren't worth exploring. I was trying to keep the discussion focused. Cutting off potential dialogue seems a natural way to do this, wouldn't you agree?

Dan Rowden wrote:You really should read the introduction threads.


Yeah. Apparently I've got to grow myself a metaphorical penis in order to participate on this forum.

I'm just kidding around. That was a serious question though. Thanks for responding as such.

Follow-up question: how does philosophical intelligence help you with your life? How does it inform your decisions? Does general, or ordinary intelligence, in your opinion, enhance your ability to develop philosophical intelligence?

Finally, is philosophical intelligence measurable? Are there ever any benefits to measuring intelligence, ever?
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Re: are you smart?

Postby Trevor Salyzyn » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:07 am

alice144 wrote:
Trevor Salyzyn wrote:Alice, not saying I'm anything but fascinated by the starting point of this thread, its current direction, and all its possible outcomes, but I am curious: how long did you lurk before posting?
I refuse to simply be an observer on the sidelines of life! Action is my by-word! And Shadowfax the name of my trusty steed!
You could try knowing a little about your students before trying to teach them lessons. Anything less is arrogance.
A mindful man needs few words.
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Re: are you smart?

Postby alice144 » Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:36 am

Trevor Salyzyn wrote:You could try knowing a little about your students before trying to teach them lessons.


Thanks! I'm actually a couple years away from earning my teacher's certification but I'm really flattered all the same! It's true what they say, teachers are born, not made; training only gets you so far.


No, but, more seriously, why study when I can simply ask?
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Re: are you smart?

Postby Trevor Salyzyn » Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:54 am

alice144 wrote:No, but, more seriously, why study when I can simply ask?
If only you could "simply" ask. Humble simplicity and purposeful vagueness are different things. A simple question is well beyond your capacity. What's your motivation? I hope you can be honest in your answer. Or, am I to expect more intentional evasiveness from you?

Some storytime. Notice the honesty in my story.

I waited two pages in to reply, because it is necessary to read first, before writing. I've measured you. You didn't even bother to so much as read the introduction to this forum -- basic forum etiquette, along with lurking -- and that introduction would have answered your question. You could have spared yourself and the rest of us some trouble, and you wouldn't have had to remind me of the Talking Ass.
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Re: are you smart?

Postby oxytocinNA » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:19 pm

alice144 wrote:
oxytocinNA wrote:You can go on any forum, mensa if you wish, but the same truth remains: Right or wrong in the context of any situation / challenge, is the only thing that matters. All else is just would be emperors, knitting invisible clothing.


Meh, we could go on deconstructing this forever. Is there really a right and a wrong, or merely a "rightest" and a "wrongest"? Making decisions is all about optimization anyhow. But this is getting silly...

Also it's probably useful, for simplicity's sake, to be able to categorize people as either "smart" or "dumb", just as you would classify them as either "short" or "tall".


mental vagrant wrote:You want to talk but you're killing potential dialogue. My view is the following, everyone is dumb.


Ah the importance of context.

Only if a critical point is silly. Potential vs. Actual.
A specific point in that analogy causes it to fail.

Maybe I'll wait for the new thread.
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Re: are you smart?

Postby alice144 » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:28 pm

Trevor Salyzyn wrote:I waited two pages in to reply, because it is necessary to read first, before writing.


Hi Trevor. Typically your own standards apply most accurately to yourself, and not so much to other people. Mind your own business, eh?

Trevor wrote:You didn't even bother to so much as read the introduction to this forum


Hey, what did you say about reading before writing? If you'd actually read my posts, you wouldn't actually be mentioning this, no? I've been on the internet a long, long time my friend. I don't join forums without checking them out first.

Trevor wrote:the Talking Ass.


You should probably reread that section on etiquette. :)

Trevor wrote:What's your motivation?


My motivation was to ask a question and to get a response.

Anything else? Anyone?
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Re: are you smart?

Postby alice144 » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:32 pm

oxytocinNA wrote:A specific point in that analogy causes it to fail.


Oh goodness. I wonder which one that could be. ;)

Naw, I'm pretty sure that this thread is smart. It even has the word "smart" in the title!
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Re: are you smart?

Postby Trevor Salyzyn » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:01 pm

alice144 wrote:I don't join forums without checking them out first.
Well then I'm stumped. If you've read all the introductory material and lurked for a reasonable length of time, I have no idea what your problem is.
You should probably reread that section on etiquette.
"Talking Ass" is a username. You'd probably like him.
My motivation was to ask a question and to get a response.
Fishing for responses is kind of annoying. It's what trolls and attention whores do. Anyway, I wasn't expecting you to be anything but evasive, but it was worth a shot. I guess.
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Re: are you smart?

Postby mental vagrant » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:53 am

Arguing over the web is indecent, it's already so misused. Perhaps a discussion inclusively coherent to all parties would be more valuable.
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Re: are you smart?

Postby Blair » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:48 pm

alice144 wrote:My motivation was to ask a question and to get a response.

Anything else? Anyone?

Oh look it's a desperately unhappy, frustrated young woman who thinks she can change to the world..

Guess what, alice

You're a fucking cliche on a cliche.
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Re: are you smart?

Postby alice144 » Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:48 am

Thanks Blair for the definition, it was extremely poignant and meaningful and helped me see myself in a new light. Now; get to work on resolving your own, personal bitterness.
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Re: are you smart?

Postby Talking Ass » Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:19 pm

Speak of a Talking Ass and his ivory whites appear!

Trevor, old boy, you've been 'stumped' for a good long time, it's just that you've not realized it yet.

Oh and you don't have to grow a penis to be a dick. You just have to be a good dick.

While I won't be able to hang around and help the *geniuses* and the *enlightened ones* with their stifling problems, I did want to respond to the evocation of my blessèd name...

My offer is still good to bring you all to the Promised Land but now I am charging $25,000.00 a head, sort of like lErhard Seminar Training or Scientology...

:-)

Blair's bitterness...is his only sweetness!
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Re: are you smart?

Postby GodsDaughter1 » Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:04 pm

alice144 wrote:Do you think that you are smart?

Yes or no is fine. A paragraph is also fine.


GodsDaughter says: I think I am a smart ass, imagine a caricature of a Donkey's head wearing black rim glasses upon her nose, a diploma cap on her ears, a diploma between her front teeth and a sign above her head displaying SMART ASS!

GodsDaughter says: I have this on my wall, a good friend drew it up and gave it to me!
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Re: are you smart?

Postby Talking Ass » Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:43 am

"Only he who establishes a [somewhat, relatively] unmoving position in the center of the storm of being, and from that position looks cautiously backward and inward through the lenses and prisms of language [language: a jittery monkey, an avataric time-traveler] has the right to call himself intelligent. The Talking Ass is such a one. All the rest are mere...murmuring donkeys."
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Re: are you smart?

Postby Blair » Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:55 am

Six years alexi, you've been doing this.

Do you really think you are relevant?

Oh and by the way, you're a shit writer.

If I want to read literature it will be Chabon or Cheever.

Not the likes of your vacuous prose.

So f'k off yeah? Or write something better.
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Re: are you smart?

Postby Talking Ass » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:01 pm

Cheever's alright, if you like gin-soaked prose. I just very closely reread Goodbye My Brother and see it now as a very well-crafted alcoholic's self-justification. Wonderful writing, yes, but I think we have to look even further under the surface, which is what I was attempting to point out with the reference to language, lenses, prisms, etc. The writer that most intrigues me right now is the Swede Hjalmar Soderberg and his book Doctor Glas. It represents to me a writer's penetration, through fiction, into the truth-question(s). Cheever just doesn't convince me though he is a very good writer. A 'truth-seeker' through his prose? I don't see it...

I might also say that, on this thread, I am the only one who has made an effort to answer the question posed. I am indeed smart---much smarter than anyone now writing here---because I recognize (at least) the nature of the problem: we walk, lost, in a trecherous language-forest and 'we can't find our way home'. You especially, Blair. You've leanrned to repeat, parrot-like, some bogus truth-claims but it is your bitter anger that is the only offering you actually have. Is that ALL because of the robbery of your foreskin by devilish mohels? How would you describe the core anger that drives you along?

From a writer's perspective (and the psychologist's!) It would be essential to learn this, as there is a great resource there.
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Re: are you smart?

Postby Sphere70 » Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:51 am

Talking Ass:

While in a Swedish mood I'll suggest you look into the poet (this years Nobel Prize winner in literature) Tomas Tranströmer. Good stuff!

Here is a nice reading from the Guardians webpage
Alone by Nobel laureate Tomas Tranströmer
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/audio/2011/oct/06/alone-nobel-tomas-transtromer-audio-poem

...and a good article
A Swedish master of mysticism leaves the reader spellbound
http://tomastranstromer.net/2011/07/07/hello-world/
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Re: are you smart?

Postby Talking Ass » Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:27 am

Nice stuff. Thanks. I found this poem:

Solitude (1)

I was nearly killed here, one night in February.
My car shivered, and slewed sideways on the ice,
right across into the other lane. The slur of traffic
came at me with their lights.

My name, my girls, my job, all
slipped free and were left behind, smaller and smaller,
further and further away. I was a nobody:
a boy in a playground, suddenly surrounded.

The headlights of the oncoming cars
bore down on me as I wrestled the wheel through a slick
of terror, clear and slippery as egg-white.
The seconds grew and grew – making more room for me –
stretching huge as hospitals.

I almost felt that I could rest
and take a breath
before the crash.

Then something caught: some helpful sand
or a well-timed gust of wind. The car
snapped out of it, swinging back across the road.
A signpost shot up and cracked, with a sharp clang,
spinning away in the darkness.

And it was still. I sat back in my seat-belt
and watched someone tramp through the whirling snow
to see what was left of me.
fiat mihi
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