"I am" my reason

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.

"I am" my reason

Postby movingalways » Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:55 am

Dennis: Genius isn't an IQ situation.
It's a mode of reasoning that comes up with nothing.


To me, one becomes "enlightened" when one finds their individual resting point of Self reasoning which to me, is to know the reason why one exists and to live of this reasoning.

How does what I am saying relate to your concept of "coming up with nothing?"
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Re: "I am" my reason

Postby Anders Schlander » Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:18 am

I have a feeling that the your 'Why you exist' would be different from the concept of my 'why I exist'. why are you interested in 'coming up with nothing'? it basically means *not finding the thing I wanted to 'come up with'' which sounds quite ordinary, everybody seems to have issues where they 'cant come up with an answer'.

Maybe start by explaining what you think when you say 'The reason you exist'.?
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Re: "I am" my reason

Postby movingalways » Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:54 am

I have a feeling that the your 'Why you exist' would be different from the concept of my 'why I exist'.


I exist to reconcile my reasoning [dual] consciousness with my non reasoning [nondual] consciousness. What is your concept for 'why you exist?'

why are you interested in 'coming up with nothing'? it basically means *not finding the thing I wanted to 'come up with'' which sounds quite ordinary, everybody seems to have issues where they 'cant come up with an answer'.


Having issues is something, is it not? What I have discovered is that it is beneficial to one's Self reasoning to stop thinking in terms of "something" and "nothing" and instead, think in terms of one's nondual and dual existence.

I have come up with my answer to my issues which is my reason for my existence (see above).

Maybe start by explaining what you think when you say 'The reason you exist'.?


Without a reason for one's existence, one is without an anchor of conscience by which one's spirit is moved.
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Re: "I am" my reason

Postby Dennis Mahar » Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:29 am

I am that I am.
sorry, got nothin' for ya'.
came up with nothin'.

I am that.

I am.
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Re: "I am" my reason

Postby alice144 » Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:44 am

All you need is love. :)

Conversely you could decide to become celibate and retire from the world of people. But life is better for connection, I think.
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Re: "I am" my reason

Postby Dennis Mahar » Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:13 am

alice,

All you need is love. :)

Conversely you could decide to become celibate and retire from the world of people. But life is better for connection, I think.


hi alice, welcome.
you're missing the point.
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Re: "I am" my reason

Postby Dennis Mahar » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:07 pm

I exist to reconcile my reasoning [dual] consciousness with my non reasoning [nondual] consciousness.


You'd come up with nothing.
The only certainty you've got is I exist (I am).
All else is uncertain isn't it?
There's no point clutching at that which can't abide.
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Re: "I am" my reason

Postby movingalways » Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:50 am

Now it is you who is missing the point. :-)

Point by point:

You'd come up with nothing.


Then why, in a previous post, did you speak of Something between the two nothings? Isn't this Something all you have, right here, right now to release you from its clutching nature?

The only certainty you've got is I exist (I am).


It is true that one's I am is the only constant in their interpretative universe, but is it not also true that without interpretations of intent, the I am cannot expand beyond its present worldview? The removal of conditions does not happen in a void. Wisdom requires that one attach their I am onto an idea, even when this idea is the idea of becoming completely unattached.

All else is uncertain, isn't it?


Your uncertainty is showing. :-)

Aren't you certain that conditions continue to arise in your consciousness?

There's no point clutching at that which can't abide.


This is the greatest fallacy of enlightenment. There is every point in clutching at that which can't abide, for that is all we have. The key is in the awareness that the reason we clutch upon now will serve us for only as long as it is needed to leave it behind. For example, when I quit smoking, I needed to clutch onto the idea of quitting and why I was quitting. Now, 28 years later, I forget that I even smoked except in situations such as these, to provide an example of the pattern of transcendence.
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Re: "I am" my reason

Postby ForbidenRea » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:13 am

My mother once wrote,
" I am the clutches of my kind; What I say and do is because I exist in a material world."

"The non-dualistic man is a prey to the non-dualistic man."

What part of that isn't known amongst the great-Herodini, malcomn X, Schwarzennigger, Forbiden Rea, QRS?

I don't know how to say this but I am alive, today, because I live in a non-dual world were duality isn't a barn. Furthermore, the words of my mother were for real!-
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Re: "I am" my reason

Postby Dennis Mahar » Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:14 am

Passing parade.
No substance.
Geddit?
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Re: "I am" my reason

Postby Dennis Mahar » Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:01 pm

This is the greatest fallacy of enlightenment. There is every point in clutching at that which can't abide, for that is all we have. The key is in the awareness that the reason we clutch upon now will serve us for only as long as it is needed to leave it behind. For example, when I quit smoking, I needed to clutch onto the idea of quitting and why I was quitting. Now, 28 years later, I forget that I even smoked except in situations such as these, to provide an example of the pattern of transcendence.


The 'perils of pauline'.

like a fly stuck on flypaper.

like watching a B-grade movie from the cheap seats,
gasping at pauline's flirtation with disasters and escapes from the clutches of doom.

'round and 'round she goes.

the sun sets, the sun rises.

hohum
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Re: "I am" my reason

Postby ForbidenRea » Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:12 pm

Dennis Mahar wrote:
the sun sets, the sun rises.

hohum


I'm a mexican contributor-thus, farewell.

I wrote a pamplet.
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Re: "I am" my reason

Postby movingalways » Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:22 am

Dennis Mahar wrote:
This is the greatest fallacy of enlightenment. There is every point in clutching at that which can't abide, for that is all we have. The key is in the awareness that the reason we clutch upon now will serve us for only as long as it is needed to leave it behind. For example, when I quit smoking, I needed to clutch onto the idea of quitting and why I was quitting. Now, 28 years later, I forget that I even smoked except in situations such as these, to provide an example of the pattern of transcendence.


The 'perils of pauline'.

like a fly stuck on flypaper.

like watching a B-grade movie from the cheap seats,
gasping at pauline's flirtation with disasters and escapes from the clutches of doom.

'round and 'round she goes.

the sun sets, the sun rises.

hohum


Can you expand for my clarification, the reason for your "hohum?"
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Re: "I am" my reason

Postby Dennis Mahar » Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:22 am

Can you expand for my clarification, the reason for your "hohum?"


It means bored.
'pauline' is my term for the archetypal human pattern,
like a fly stuck on flypaper,
of believing it's a dangerous world,
and then living in fear as a consequence.
Master Eckhart understood impermanence and wrote that when that is understood,
fear is replaced by gratitude and a tinge of sadness,
and that one's prayer ought to be 'thankyou'.

I have a 14 yo chihuahua whose heart has failed this week and she is dying before my eyes.
Existence is boring the shit out of me at the moment.
It's a B-grade movie.
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Re: "I am" my reason

Postby movingalways » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:32 am

My heart goes out to you. I can't remember a time when there was not a dog and/or a cat in my life. At the moment, a seven-year old standard poodle named Daisy and a fourteen-year old marmalade cat named Orange Boy are two good reasons I am not bored with my earthly Self. I am not dismissing your acknowledgment of boredom, but rather, shining a different light on that view.
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Re: "I am" my reason

Postby Dennis Mahar » Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:20 am

I get the pleasure arising out of Orange Boy & Daisy.
for the time being.
wouldn't matter how many lights get shone.

don't want to rain on anyone's parade,
here it is,
Impermanence.
something is nothing ultimately.

1. impermanence
2. emptiness
3. soul-less-ness

Rea,

I wrote a pamplet.


good work.
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Re: "I am" my reason

Postby movingalways » Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:41 pm

Emptiness is not nothingness. Emptiness is dependent existence. You and your chihuahua are dependently existing, as are you and I dependently existing.

Love is not addressed in Buddhism and is rarely spoken of on this board; I understand why. But love, for me, is a perfect word to describe both the feeling state and non feeling state of being fully awake to the wisdom of dependent existence.

This is why I say rationality is not I am That enlightenment. Rationality cuts away belief in an independent self, but rationality cannot 'feel'/intuit the infinite, eternal movement of dependent existence.
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Re: "I am" my reason

Postby Dennis Mahar » Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:05 pm

We're talking about existence.

on the question 'what's so'...

nothing or no thing.
the end of identification with material phenomena.
release from bondage of material phenomena or nirvana.
a sense of peace.
unconditioned, uncompounded and unfabricated , the reality that knows no change, decay or death.

In contrast to

something.
conditioned, compounded, fabricated.
identification with material phenomena.
suffering.
change, decay, death.

emptiness is 'how things exist'.
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Re: "I am" my reason

Postby movingalways » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:46 am

We're talking about existence.


Yes, but also about your role and my role with regards to our awareness of the two realms of existence, which you correctly identify as being:

nothing or no thing.
the end of identification with material phenomena.
release from bondage of material phenomena or nirvana.
a sense of peace.
unconditioned, uncompounded and unfabricated , the reality that knows no change, decay or death.

In contrast to

something.
conditioned, compounded, fabricated.
identification with material phenomena.
suffering.
change, decay, death.


Please feel free to set me straight, but I believe you are bored because you are identified with conditioned existence and not with unconditioned existence. Identification with the latter changes every-thing.
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Re: "I am" my reason

Postby jufa » Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:36 am

I met myself today

Suddenly
Sitting quietly behind my eyes
Just looking

Face to face we were

Never had I seen me there before
But there I was, and
I know not from where I came

Then I was gone
I know not where
But in appearing
I was my father, my mother,
All I am today

Where had I met myself before?
It was here
Here in the days of
Yester-year
From which I came
And where I stood before me
Then I disappeared into here

Here where I appeared
In the blood and
Memories of
My thoughts of ancient days

I met myself today - by jufa

THE POET'S FLAME - http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com


Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa
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Re: "I am" my reason

Postby Dennis Mahar » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:04 am

Please feel free to set me straight


OK,
I will.
You think I'm faulty equipment.
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Re: "I am" my reason

Postby movingalways » Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:21 pm

Dennis Mahar wrote:
Pam: Please feel free to set me straight


OK,
I will.
You think I'm faulty equipment.


If unconditioned existence is what you desire, if a "sense of peace", which you identified as being one of its qualities is what you want, why are you attaching your I am to conditioned, divisive thoughts such as "faulty?" I am That, remember?
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Re: "I am" my reason

Postby Dennis Mahar » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:53 am

If unconditioned existence is what you desire, if a "sense of peace", which you identified as being one of its qualities is what you want, why are you attaching your I am to conditioned, divisive thoughts such as "faulty?" I am That, remember?


I actually don't mind relative existence.
I enjoy being for the most part.
experiencing emotion like boredom, strong interest, enthusiasm, sadness, joy is OK with me.
experiencing the nuance and ramifications of idea interest me.

I'm not in a hurry or desparate to flee.
for the time being,
all in good time.

being a pattern imbued with some modicum of wisdom affords not an entirely unpleasant experience of Maya,
with respect to conditions of course.
one can still travel freely and relatively happily through conditions however adverse,
if one has a mind capable of generating the detached perspective.

warmth for being,
there's a lot of skill in it.

Skill or Mastery turns me on as a possibility.
when I see it I admire.
Immersed in admiration is my favourite 'thing'.
and I have to experience existence to experience that.
for the time being.
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Re: "I am" my reason

Postby movingalways » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:12 am

Dennis, your answer touched me, thank you. For me, this touch is the activity of reconciliation of sentience [relativity] to its source. What is this source is, I do not know. What sentience is, I do not know. All I know is that they are, and that I am aware of them, and that where they "meet" is my "heart." One thing I have learned is that it is reasoning that holds us to our sentience, but that it is love that holds us at rest in our sentience. And by love, I do not mean the romantic, sexual, platonic or agape idea of love, but the love of total acceptance of the whole shebang of conscious awareness.

I am not saying that total acceptance is the 'ultimate' arrival for everyone while in sentience; I am saying that it is where I stand, right here, right now. Which is all anyone ever has.

I too, enjoy relative existence. I enjoy my husband, my children, my sisters, my brother, my friends, my dog, my cat, wine....the only difference between my enjoyment now and my enjoyment ten years ago, is that I see this enjoyment from a 'higher' perspective, which has allowed me to cease judging my relative existence according to my old human "they say" values.

There is no where to flee, only a where of expansive [or contractive] understanding. :-)
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Re: "I am" my reason

Postby Dennis Mahar » Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:25 am

So,
we've reasoned from experience concerning existence and defeated nihilism.

4 possibilities.

It is sweet not sour (unwise)
It is sour not sweet (nihilism/unwise)
It is both sweet and sour (Tao/ some wisdom)
It is neither sweet/ sour (ultimately/sage)
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