Why causality is an illusion

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.

Re: Why causality is an illusion

Postby Talking Ass » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:05 am

MV wrote: "A doctrine it shouldn't be though, i can't help but think that this debate 'exists' ( :) ) because we all have a slightly different way of expressing our thought. We might be speaking of the same things in essence but our interpretation of language misguides us? Should we boil our pot and analyse the chemical remains?"

I think you would have that sensibility (and it is a noble trait) of bridging differences, of reconciling oppositions, and (as you suggest) noticing merely semantic differences or methods of expression. I would suggest, from a rather long experience, that this (to speak generally) is not the case. Now, I cannot say what your viewpoint is, that all depends on you and your 'predicates' as mine also do, but I suggest that if/when you (or someone) carefully and closely examine the doctrines of the QRS's Thinking Man's Minefield, and sift through their assertions and conclusions, you will find it is not a 'semantical' issue, nor is my opposition to Dennis 'semantic': it is rather a fundamental difference in value, and ways that value is assigned. These are far larger differences than meet the eye.

So, a 'doctrine' it most certainly is, and it is a ruthless one (by their own admission, of course, but 'ruthless' according to their terms). It is neo-Buddhist in what I would say is a bad way, and in some areas a very bad way.

Still, the only way you'd be able to know or decide is through your own investigation. I just wanted to clarify my position in this.
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Re: Why causality is an illusion

Postby Dennis Mahar » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:33 am

Alex,
write up a rap sheet for me,
I'll print it off,
take it to the cops,
insist they arrest me and lock me up.
That should fix it for you.

MV,
Are you saying you separate one from the other?


As a distinction.
Definitions are in knowledge.
Distinctions are 'gotten' from experience.
When you learn to ride a bicycle,
it's hard at first,
soon enough you 'get' balance.
Balance on a bicycle is 'grokked'.
It's distinguished.
A distinguishment or distinction.

Once you've distinguished 'appearance' from the normal run of seeing things as inherently existing...
You have that distinction,
not as knowledge, like something 'set in stone' or typeset in alphabetical order in an encyclopedia..
It's a way of being.

A doctrine it shouldn't be though,


No, you're right.
If it became set in concrete for you then you would show up in life as a formula.
I don't talk about this stuff anywhere else.
It stays in the background as a distinction and when the bike starts to wobble it's remembered and balance is newly 'gotten'.
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Re: Why causality is an illusion

Postby Talking Ass » Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:39 am

Alex, write up a rap sheet for me, I'll print it off, take it to the cops, insist they arrest me and lock me up. That should fix it for you.
I have a much better and more efficient idea, one far more satisfing: it is that from this moment I cease communicating with you.

Still, if you want to turn ourself in, have at it. ;-)
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Re: Why causality is an illusion

Postby Tomas » Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:44 pm

Dennis Mahar wrote:MV,
Are you saying you separate one from the other?


As a distinction.
Definitions are in knowledge.
Distinctions are 'gotten' from experience.
When you learn to ride a bicycle,
it's hard at first,
soon enough you 'get' balance.
Balance on a bicycle is 'grokked'.
It's distinguished.
A distinguishment or distinction.

Once you've distinguished 'appearance' from the normal run of seeing things as inherently existing...
You have that distinction,
not as knowledge, like something 'set in stone' or typeset in alphabetical order in an encyclopedia..
It's a way of being.

A doctrine it shouldn't be though,


No, you're right.
If it became set in concrete for you then you would show up in life as a formula.
I don't talk about this stuff anywhere else.
It stays in the background as a distinction and when the bike starts to wobble it's remembered and balance is newly 'gotten'.

Very good, Dennis. The bicycle thing.

Yeah, same here don't talk about this elsewhere. Though, kinda like thinking about the background noise when going about what passes for life in the fast lane(s).

.
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Re: Why causality is an illusion

Postby Dennis Mahar » Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:49 am

Tomas,
Very good, Dennis. The bicycle thing.


It's wonderful isn't it.
In the pieces/parts of human being sits the brain.
Brain science is saying the left hemisphere monitors the environment, picking up tracks of reasons, sorting out how this goes with this and that goes with that..
Then bang!,
one day the right hemisphere gets the distinction. Grok!
Like a kid can spend 5 years in school looking at law and then 5 years on the job training and one day,
Voila!,
there it is,
the kid gets it!
Law is now his 'immersion'.
The kid doesn't need doctrines, books etc..
It's just there in the fullness of it,
It runs itself.
Whatever comes up in 'situations to face' is handled with minimum fuss and maximum effect.
It's an extraordinary experience to observe a master at work whatever the activity is.

The magnificence of realising emptiness,
of grokking Void,
of knowing 'nothing',
of how something comes from nothing,
as a sheer act of creativity, of pure imagination,
how that something came out of nothing like a thunderbolt,

It's not possible to know something's fullness without knowing it's nothing.

getting its nothing,
is getting its miraculousness.

And then you die,
shit happens.
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Re: Why causality is an illusion

Postby mental vagrant » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:50 am

:)
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Re: Why causality is an illusion

Postby ForbidenRea » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:07 pm

o Oh! the mind and the spirit are one. As if oneness ever had a clue. This whole discussion is wear and tear. What causes a monumental move in the universe is just the practicality of it[like a faucet being turned on in someones roomy] It's like that phrase when you hit the baseball as far as you can till it reaches some point in outer space. This, being said.
I think it's the "I" in genius.
Last edited by ForbidenRea on Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Why causality is an illusion

Postby Dennis Mahar » Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:06 am

This from David,

Enlightening the mind, so it rests effortlessly in Reality, doesn't happen overnight. It takes years of mindfulness, constantly applied day after day.

Just keep things simple. Focus your mind on the core truth of all life, namely, that all things are causally created and lack intrinsic existence. Then, from that position, let your mind roam naturally. Don't be too upset when you find yourself engaging in 'worldly temptations' and the like. It's your karma. It's nothing to be ashamed about. When you become aware again, just focus the mind on the core truth. Slowy, by force of habit, your mind will begin to centre on the nature of Reality, and this, in turn, will gradually alter your entire being.


I wonder if 'selling' the emptiness message might get better traction by way of a glossy TV ad.
You could have a couple of bikini clad bimbos draped over a sleek Maserati,
with the caption,
'Running on Empty'.
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Re: Why causality is an illusion

Postby ForbidenRea » Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:36 pm

Causality is an illusionary princess.
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Re: Why causality is an illusion

Postby Anders Schlander » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:05 am

so is non-casuality :)
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Re: Why causality is an illusion

Postby movingalways » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:27 am

Man is the Something that is all things that knows Itself unconsciously until it knows of Itself consciously. Upon becoming consciously aware of Its-all-thingness and of holding to this consciousness, man is liberated from his identification with the illusion of time, with the illusion of space, with the illusion of distance and with the illusion of matter.
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Re: Why causality is an illusion

Postby Tomas » Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:46 am

cousinbasil wrote:
Why you continue to cover for Cousinbasil/Brokenhead being two separate persons when even Cousinbasil hasn't come out and denied being Brokenhead.

I have denied it but you don't seem to want to hear that, which is fine with me, since it is fun watching you obsess. Life must be getting smaller and smaller for you, Roddy. I noticed that you continue to capitalize my alias, and so I checked and sure enough, you are deliberately doing the same thing with brokenhead. Yet you bristle when someone spells your name as "thomas." Let alone uses your real name "Roddy the Rank." If you were a thinker - which you are not - you would be a petty one, with foul moods and small ideas.


Note the bolded words above...

and the below...

GENIUS FORUMS
Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment

.
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Re: Why causality is an illusion

Postby cousinbasil » Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:14 am

Tomas wrote:
cousinbasil wrote:
Why you continue to cover for Cousinbasil/Brokenhead being two separate persons when even Cousinbasil hasn't come out and denied being Brokenhead.

I have denied it but you don't seem to want to hear that, which is fine with me, since it is fun watching you obsess. Life must be getting smaller and smaller for you, Roddy. I noticed that you continue to capitalize my alias, and so I checked and sure enough, you are deliberately doing the same thing with brokenhead. Yet you bristle when someone spells your name as "thomas." Let alone uses your real name "Roddy the Rank." If you were a thinker - which you are not - you would be a petty one, with foul moods and small ideas.


Note the bolded words above...

and the below...

GENIUS FORUMS
Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment

.

Really, Roddy? What the fuck do you care?

GENIUS FORUMS
Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment


And you are some kind of epitome of this? You freakish old liar. Get a fucking mirror, will you? Yes, let's all be enlightened like Tomas or Roddy or whatever else he wants to call himself. Someone who is so bored with his own life he has wet dreams about Sarah Palin and would have her be in the White House. Truly a man of character judgment.

You fucking liar. Your are still a slimy politician like you always were. Your posts are filled with inconsistencies and contradictions. One minute the whore in your life is your girlfriend - the next she's your wife. Roddy/Tomas, you inconsequential old turd. Oh and we all believe your IQ was measured at 150. And mine was measured at 500.
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Re: Why causality is an illusion

Postby mental vagrant » Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:39 am

Amazing how petty these 'arguments' are becoming..
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Re: Why causality is an illusion

Postby cousinbasil » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:35 am

mental vagrant wrote:Amazing how petty these 'arguments' are becoming..

I hate doing petty but some people will just insist you go there.
A flick of green to be seen between alone between two giants

Sounds like a booger looking up at my nostrils...
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Re: Why causality is an illusion

Postby Tomas » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:18 am

mental vagrant wrote:Amazing how petty these 'arguments' are becoming..

What you have here are two multiple personality disorders showing up. One earlier (Brokenhead), and the one present now (Cousinbasil). The one earlier is before your arrival .. was smitten by love (the What is Love? thread that Alex/Alexis/Talking Ass is now attempting to paper over with meaningless quotes of others with multiple membership accounts - how shallow) so Brokenhead announced he would be leaving for ultimate bliss of his first encounter with pheromones. The regulars then advised not to set up a blog of personal 'Dear Diary' notes but Brokenhead would have none of that. It's the pheromones, you know?

The new readers like yourself trust (but not verify) what the present "elite" members say without hesitation. People like Forbidden Reason show up and babble about stuff they do not care to incorporate into a new way of thinking thus this Genius forums end up with third-rate "thinkers" like Alexis - Alex - Alex T. Jacob - Talking Ass and fourth-rate copycat artists like Brokenhead - Cousinbasil. Their only intent is to degrade the discourse to the only level they know. Multiple accounts, put downs, deny (lie) deny (cheat) deny (steal).

Forbidden Reasoning was here before, too. I know who but the critical thinker need look beyond the poster's comments. Genius has a search engine. Look up Forbid's first three-four posts and cross-reference with the engine with odd, key words that do not fit into thought structured sentences. It's the law of unintended consequences - a writer's words can be copied but as to the underlying meaning one sees a subtle difference through the mesage one is attempting to impart.

The second dual personality showed some couple years ago (my how time flies) called Cousinbasil. This strange creature hit the ground running.

If you "want" a decent forum, be vigil don't settle for mediocrity by others. Do a Dennis, think critical. After all, you are the only one here that can do so. Be a watchman on the tower... because your continued existence depends upon every spoken Word.
Last edited by Tomas on Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Why causality is an illusion

Postby Alex T. Jacob » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:29 am

Well, I got it BAD! Quadrophrenia!

First, the tunes: this one goes out to Tomas.

June Carter, in my view, gets into your soul!

This one I dedicate to the Talking Ass... An Ass after my own heart!

We're working some heavy healings here, people! Stay with it...
I can't go on. I'll go on.
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Re: Why causality is an illusion

Postby Tomas » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:43 am

Alex T. Jacob wrote:Well, I got it BAD! Quadrophrenia!

First, the tunes: this one goes out to Tomas.

June Carter, in my view, gets into your soul!

This one I dedicate to the Talking Ass...

We're working some heavy healings here, people! Stay with it...

You're really no different than Carl, when you asked what happened to Daybrown? Carl chased him off with inane writings - many have asked what happened to Daybrown - it's guys like you who do that. You degrade no uplift. You let them drown in suffering.

BTW - I had edited since your post.
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Re: Why causality is an illusion

Postby Alex T. Jacob » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:54 am

But Carl was mean...real mean. I am sunny & wonderful & lighthearted!

I am enjoying your many Biblical references. Check out the connection to Isaiah:

    "Prepare the table, watch in the watchtower, eat, drink: arise ye princes, and prepare the shield./For thus hath the Lord said unto me, Go set a watchman, let him declare what he seeth./And he saw a chariot with a couple of horsemen, a chariot of asses, and a chariot of camels; and he hearkened diligently with much heed./...And, behold, here cometh a chariot of men, with a couple of horsemen. And he answered and said, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, and all the graven images of her gods he hath broken unto the ground."

'Be a watchman on the tower..'

Tomas, if you 'win' here, what really will you have won?
I can't go on. I'll go on.
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Re: Why causality is an illusion

Postby Tomas » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:26 am

Alex T. Jacob wrote:But Carl was mean...real mean. I am sunny & wonderful & lighthearted!

I am enjoying your many Biblical references. Check out the connection to Isaiah:

    "Prepare the table, watch in the watchtower, eat, drink: arise ye princes, and prepare the shield./For thus hath the Lord said unto me, Go set a watchman, let him declare what he seeth./And he saw a chariot with a couple of horsemen, a chariot of asses, and a chariot of camels; and he hearkened diligently with much heed./...And, behold, here cometh a chariot of men, with a couple of horsemen. And he answered and said, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, and all the graven images of her gods he hath broken unto the ground."

'Be a watchman on the tower..'

Tomas, if you 'win' here, what really will you have won?

You understand, Alex, I don't click on your links because .. you of late .. are superficial.

You're a failed writer (you've admitted that), all you have to set your dreams on are others who have put their childish ways behind them and have moved on. But you do not have that capability. You're stuck in neutral, that non-gear is romance.
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Re: Why casuality is an illusion

Postby ForbidenRea » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:45 am

movingalways wrote:A righteous man does not live by reason, but others may call him a reasonable man. A man of reason, however, is not necessarily a righteous man. A reasoning man believes he has found the "right" cause, and builds his world from that point onward, drawing others into his web of karma or self righteousness. A righteous man lives not by reasoning, but by the directives of his conscience, which knows nothing of a "right" cause, but only of doing the right thing for the sake of his salvation or liberation, and only for his salvation or liberation.

A first cause cannot and will not, ever be found. This is the truth the man who wants or needs to find a cause, usually so he can find temporary relief from his suffering of guilt or shame or confusion, refuses to acknowledge.

Human wisdom may be about being a man of reason, but wisdom of the consciousness that transcends and sustains everything human is about being righteous while being human.

MovingAlways,
This is ancient philosophy.
I be 'still" I cannot move unless there is love/motive or in latin 'motivo'. It is the practical matter that I am in the state of moving always. motivated passion that causes a man to move. Throughout history what motivates a nation to rise and fall is 'God.'
What makes you wake up early and start off your day? What causes the sun to rise? That theory when all is well. Sicknes and people think they are correct. They're moving always.
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Re: Why causality is an illusion

Postby ForbidenRea » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:48 am

The boarderline crazzies. No. The contempts of people moving always. of a better future. Why, people are so beligerant. Why, people wake up in the morning thinking of you. Farces.
What causes the sun to rise?
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Re: Why causality is an illusion

Postby ForbidenRea » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:50 am

One word-

Let me live my life.
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Re: Why causality is an illusion

Postby ForbidenRea » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:26 am

Do, you know what's worth fighting for'
'And, do you know what's worth dying for?
When your mind taps the spirit of your soul

When your at thee edge of the road
And you've lost all sense of control
Something inside this heart of mine
You're in ruins...

121 guns, lay down your arms give up the fight
121 guns throw down your arms give up the fight
You and "I"
When you feel yourself soffocating'
When, the time weigh's out the past'
And, you look for another glass'
Something, inside this heart of mine'
You're in ruins...

121 guns, lay down your arms give up the fight
121 guns throw down your arms give up the fight
You and "I"

When, your at thee edge of the road
And, you've lost all sense of control
Something inside this heart of mine
You're in ruins....

121 guns, lay down your arms give up the fight
121 guns, throw down your arms give up the fight
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Re: Why causality is an illusion

Postby ForbidenRea » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:39 am

The craziest moment in my life was when I rode my bike as a kid, skid, and tore off a chunk of my left leg. Then, I went looking for that piece of chunk for about a hour. I couldn't find it! Why would the causation of such a moment's worth not allow me to find that piece of ornament?
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