LSD and group mind experiences.

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.

LSD and group mind experiences.

Postby Ryan Rudolph » Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:32 am

What I read over the years from many sources is that users of LSD report that this drug can result in what is called telepathic group mind experiences. Personally, I have never taken the drug, but I am a little curious about this. My intellectual curiosity is not so much on the experience itself, but whether these experiences can cause lasting changes to the individual's biology and the collective biology. What I mean by this is that LSD appears to have the potential to open up the frontal cortex up to experiences of higher consciousness. However, does a surge of higher consciousness into the brain permanently affect an individual's conditioning? And how does a group mind experience effect the relationship of each individual after wards? Does it enhance the relationship? Moreover, does group mind experiences have any effect on the collective consciousness by somehow making it easier for the 'unconsciousness' to unplug from the stream?

There hasn't been much research into the impact of LSD induced group mind experiences, but is it wrong to imagine the animal brain like a dam limiting consciousness, and to imagine a surge of novelty as water busting a crack through the dam, surely more water will trickle out to eventually create a large gaping hole of pouring water.
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Re: LSD and group mind experiences.

Postby Diebert van Rhijn » Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:19 pm

Some friends of mine claimed both during a serious trip I was wearing some colored hat: they insisted I toke it off. Also some 'tongues' were reported. Since nothing else weird was reported in the room or with other people during the night they had a hard time believing I didn't "toy" with them by putting on the hat (well we did like to trick each other at times). The substance effected me less. I always wonder if they were seeing some electromagnetic activity (my mind was very much expanded at the time but could operate still normal). Also this recent article: The Eyes Have It: A Protein for Magnetic Sensing made me wonder.

Although I do not currently believe in "pure" telepathy, like transmitting an actual thought like some radio signal, I do think we can resonate in some complex way with others or the shared environment in all kinds of ways, even by indirect means, making it appear we "know" a thought or occurrence. Or just agree on perceiving the same thing. Since entheogens can really fire up our intuitive powers of "combining" a manifold of senses into one coherent picture, I do think drugs can enable in a random manner some "higher" perception and understanding. The perceived clarity of the experience is not always what is seems though, one has just the 'sense' of it being clear and direct. Further examination will prove it often was not that clear at all.

But I also believe it's important to move beyond it. Any "higher perception" some drug experience can offer can and should be transcended and obtained by a clear functioning drug-free mind. My mind often functions now in comparable states which only drugs or other special circumstance could trigger in the few past experiments. But this time I'm sober and that only strengthens the ability of the mind to achieve more clarity on things as well on itself.
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Re: LSD and group mind experiences.

Postby Ryan Rudolph » Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:12 pm

Diebert,

I don't have a strong desire to use LSD either. I actually never have, but some of the claims give rise to wonder. Especially on the subject of permanent altering of biological conditioning.
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Re: LSD and group mind experiences.

Postby jupiviv » Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:04 am

Telepathy is a kind of apperception. The "higher" consciousness is merely the kind of consciousness where we are without the burden of memories and consideration for the things apart from the people we are with, so we can focus our entire concentration on them.

I don't think that telepathy can tell us anything about what people "think", in the purest sense of the word. At best, it can tell us about their emotional state. For example, if someone has lost a loved one recently, then they would probably display certain behaviours that are typical of people in such a state.
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Re: LSD and group mind experiences.

Postby cousinbasil » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:25 am

jupiviv wrote:I don't think that telepathy can tell us anything about what people "think", in the purest sense of the word. At best, it can tell us about their emotional state. For example, if someone has lost a loved one recently, then they would probably display certain behaviours that are typical of people in such a state.

Telepathy isn't really the word for it. Observing another's behaviors to determine emotional state is something anyone can do, it has nothing to do with heightened perception. In all likelihood, in Diebert's case his friends were witnessing the vivification of his thousand-petaled locust. He does not mention seeing anyone else wearing a hat, and it seems they saw only Diebert with this "hat." Brief glimpses of another's auras, for want of a less new-age-sounding term, can happen in altered states. Often the tendency is to dismiss something like the hat sighting as an hallucination. The drugs caused the hat to appear. But further consideration reveals more - the drugs caused the presence of the hat to become apparent, that Diebert may have natural cerebral tendencies his friends did not, which on his part became excited by the drug experience causing the vivification, and on their part by having their doors of perception jostled slightly ajar.

The esoteric teaching of Christ included how to open these doors at will to the extent desired, thereby being able to discern in others at a glance the level of knowledge or adeptship they have attained - the halo is an observed thing, not an invention.
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Re: LSD and group mind experiences.

Postby Alexis Jacobi » Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:07 am

Ryan wrote:...but whether these experiences can cause lasting changes to the individual's biology and the collective biology.
It is interesting to consider the close relationship between the use of psychedelic plants and the development of religious and existential descriptions, the way that we define our reality. And this association between man and entheogen may (likely does) extend way far back in time: certainly to prehistoric epochs and even farther into the past: as on the savannas of Africa. The eating of moldy foodstuffs (prior to the use of fire), certain plants that were known to have incomprehensible effects.

LSD is a radically powerful drug, it also requires a chemistry lab to make. I think to begin to answer the question, one would have to examine those communities where natural plants, vines, cactus and mushrooms are used. I can say that in at least one of those places, they people who live in that community, though undistinguishable outwardly, are aware of an acknowledge other levels of reality that interweave with this one, which changes the way this one is related to. It is a psychic environment that one steps into, especially if one also ingests that sacrament, if one 'participates'.

I would also suggest that the very world we live in, the 'real world' we all know (the mental world we exist in), is influenced in somewhat inconceivable ways by effects that emanate and have emanated (that is to say, in the past, even a very long time ago) from various centers where such plants are used.

(I am not sure if 'biological change' is quite the way to think of it, but if that were the case an autopsy would surely reveal it, wouldn't it?)
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Re: LSD and group mind experiences.

Postby Tomas » Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:37 am

.

-Ryan Rudolph-
What I read over the years from many sources

-tomas-
Scooby Doo was all about LSD.


-Ryan-
is that users of LSD report that this drug can result in what is called telepathic group mind experiences.

-tomas-
Watch the movie, Easy Rider. I visited that cemetery a couple times during Mardi Gras. Just to get in the groove .. ya dig? Those boys (and their girlfriends) were trippin' something good in and amongst the stone obelisks. ;-)


-Ryan-
Personally, I have never taken the drug, but I am a little curious about this.

-tomas-
So was the movie actor, Cary Grant. He tripped (many many times) under his doctor's supervision before it was like, cool [mainstream] both at the MD's office and Cary's home.


-Ryan-
My intellectual curiosity is not so much on the experience itself, but whether these experiences can cause lasting changes to the individual's biology and the collective biology.

-tomas-
No, and no.


-Ryan-
What I mean by this is that LSD appears to have the potential to open up the frontal cortex up to experiences of higher consciousness.

-tomas-
Well, duh!


-Ryan-
However, does a surge of higher consciousness into the brain permanently affect an individual's conditioning?

-tomas-
First, find a reputable down-to-earth 'person' you can trust (literally, with your life) to see you through the planned-out journey. Search out a guide [an aide] who will help you through a couple of rough spots on said trip. Decide between a day trip or an all-night excursion. If it is a night trip, get far from the city lights and pray for a cloudless night sky to gaze at the heaven's unfolding. The initial "up" after some 20-30 of initiation. And about two hours into the journey he should suggest some new surroundings. Get plenty of rest, some food protein, and be well-hydrated beforehand but don't guzzle too much.

Tomas Note: Be ready to see your urine seemingly appear as rainbow colors. Difficult to explain but if you trip outside at night you'll not notice unless you experience it at an indoor experience. Some of that may be the lightbulb (or whatever light source) but then again light refractions take on different dimensions and meanings to the questioning mind ;-)

I've known a few brave souls who've (after a few LSD experiences) videotaped themselves throughout the trip. Other have taken notes or dictated into a recorder device... Depends on how 'controlled an experiment' you'd really want (or need) to limit yourself to.

Avoid any man-made music of any sort on the first trip... unless it is you yourself humming, singing whatever.

More later on the rest of your interesting post.

Ta-ta, Amigo.
Last edited by Tomas on Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LSD and group mind experiences.

Postby jupiviv » Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:42 pm

cousinbasil wrote:Observing another's behaviors to determine emotional state is something anyone can do, it has nothing to do with heightened perception.


Which is precisely my point. It's just a clearer form of perception of the behaviours of a person.
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Re: LSD and group mind experiences.

Postby cousinbasil » Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:06 pm

jupiviv wrote:
cousinbasil wrote:Observing another's behaviors to determine emotional state is something anyone can do, it has nothing to do with heightened perception.


Which is precisely my point. It's just a clearer form of perception of the behaviors of a person.

And my point is that behavior alone comprises just part of what one can observe about another person in order to determine that person's emotional state. Examples would be observing the behavior of others toward this person, observing ramifications of this person's behavior, and so on. I think the topic of the thread is whether LSD and similar consciousness-altering substances can enhance one's perceptions about others, enable one to know more. I think they can, and I also believe Diebert is correct in observing one must then be able to move on from there.
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Re: LSD and group mind experiences.

Postby Tomas » Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:04 pm

.

-Ryan-
And how does a group mind experience effect the relationship of each individual afterwards?

-tomas-
Well, on my first trip there was about 5-6 of us. The wife was not part of the excursion due to the fact she was pregnant at the time. She wasn't too annoyed about it all. Her dad and mother had experimented while they were a wee bit younger. The point being that the few of us who tripped together - we are [now "were" a] tight group of friends - who wouldn't let any one of us fall through the cracks. It was a night trip with no artificial lighting available other than Curt, Gerry and Chuck who smoked cigarettes so the 'tracer effect' was on full display ;-) Dang, those were the good old days! The cigarette end would glow bright and leave a trail of colors in its movemet whether they would walk along or stand/sit stationary and puff and relax the smoke by their side.

What weed (maryjane) we had had no noticeable effect upon me. But the stuff smells so good when burning ;-)

When they'd spark up a match/lighter the whole field of vision would light up for quick instant much like a bolt of lightning would effect a given area. Other than Gerry's (what seemed like constant) laughter but not irritating in the least, it was one helluva trip and we digressed about it the next morning. Famous last words .. had I known how long the event would take place I wouldda gotten a good night's rest the evening preceding the 'going up'.

The 'flash of a lighter' reminds me of when the Beatles discussed their first trip together. One of them saw what was described as a "fire" so they sped [ran] down to where he flames were and realized it was just an ordinary lightbulb in front of (what was) a distant house. When one is tripping the senses have reactions that would otherwise be non-noticeable. Too common to get worked up about. Such is modern life.

Tomas Note: I wouldn't suggest one go swimming, nor around trains, sun tanning, definitely not water skiing, driving a vehicle (for me at least) is a no-no as one isn't quite too certain of how "fast" one is going..........

More later as the acid "flash back" kicks in to overdrive.
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Re: LSD and group mind experiences.

Postby Tomas » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:40 am

-Ryan-
Does it enhance the relationship?

-tomas-
To borrow a phrase from Sarah Palin .. You betcha!

Keep in semi-regular contact (like once a month) with the laughaholic, Gerry from Oklahoma. Was checking out an old photo album from the 1970s and there they were. The solidity of the human relationship is an unfolding panoply of esoteric dimension, complete with the urges to relive though not in a physical sense at my age. Because as I age (the mirror doesn't lie) "it" yearns for new dramas to unleash the meaning of what "is" .. "is".
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Re: LSD and group mind experiences.

Postby mrw55 » Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:35 pm

After writing close to a 500 word reply to LSD..., I clicked on the review button only to be asked to sign in to reply to the post. If I was not signed in, how did I get to the review portion of the post?
I will not bother to post another reply.
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Re: LSD and group mind experiences.

Postby Diebert van Rhijn » Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:21 pm

What happened when you signed in again?

See: Why do I get logged off automatically?

Also: Tips for using this forum, #7.
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Re: LSD and group mind experiences.

Postby Tomas » Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:17 am

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:What happened when you signed in again?

See: Why do I get logged off automatically?

Also: Tips for using this forum, #7.

And there is a "spam filter" for the newbies.
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Re: LSD and group mind experiences.

Postby GodsDaughter1 » Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:17 am

mrw55 wrote:After writing close to a 500 word reply to LSD..., I clicked on the review button only to be asked to sign in to reply to the post. If I was not signed in, how did I get to the review portion of the post?
I will not bother to post another reply.


GodsDaughter says: It happens to me quite often, cousinbasil can tell you what to do, I forgot what he said. I've written many very good replies only to lose them. It times out, if you go away to the bathroom then come back, you've lost your post. It's horrible to lose one's writing, which is why I seldom write here anymore due to this problem.
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Re: LSD and group mind experiences.

Postby Diebert van Rhijn » Sat Jul 23, 2011 7:09 pm

GodsDaughter1 wrote: It's horrible to lose one's writing, which is why I seldom write here anymore due to this problem.

I was actually thinking of a device to make it also more painful to write here. Like some electrical shock with every key being pressed. Denial of service during posting. Screaming sounds each and every moment browsing the forum. Posts randomly disappearing after weeks or months. Or words being jumbled up, mistakes being added. Then the ones still writing at least could be called determined. Well, or insane.
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Re: LSD and group mind experiences.

Postby cousinbasil » Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:40 am

GodsDaughter1 wrote:
mrw55 wrote:After writing close to a 500 word reply to LSD..., I clicked on the review button only to be asked to sign in to reply to the post. If I was not signed in, how did I get to the review portion of the post?
I will not bother to post another reply.


GodsDaughter says: It happens to me quite often, cousinbasil can tell you what to do, I forgot what he said. I've written many very good replies only to lose them. It times out, if you go away to the bathroom then come back, you've lost your post. It's horrible to lose one's writing, which is why I seldom write here anymore due to this problem.

Perhaps mrw55 was hallucinating that he had logged in...? I use Fass or sometimes Kevin's offline bbcode editor, which is just as good. Try it, mrw55 - you will never lose a post again!
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Re: LSD and group mind experiences.

Postby cousinbasil » Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:43 am

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:
GodsDaughter1 wrote: It's horrible to lose one's writing, which is why I seldom write here anymore due to this problem.

I was actually thinking of a device to make it also more painful to write here. Like some electrical shock with every key being pressed. Denial of service during posting. Screaming sounds each and every moment browsing the forum. Posts randomly disappearing after weeks or months. Or words being jumbled up, mistakes being added. Then the ones still writing at least could be called determined. Well, or insane.

Don't worry, Diebert, with you around all the time, GF is painful enough.
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Re: LSD and group mind experiences.

Postby Ergasiophobic » Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:02 pm

Here's something I wrote years ago about this subject, if it's any help at all.

"The last time that I took acid (next to last actually, the last time it didn't work) was with my brother. It lasted about 13 hours! Well, it was our first 'bad trip'. My theory as to why it went 'bad' was that we decided in the middle of it that we didn't want to 'trip' anymore. What I found out the hard way is that you don't get to decide that. lol Anyhow, the weirdest thing (that may be impossible to explain) is that we seemed comfortable when together and talking with each other. But the moment that we ceased conversation or one of us went off to urinate, things got weird; The 'badness' returned. the only solution to the 'badness' was to stay together and in conversation with each other constantly. It was so weird and i'm not sure if i'll ever understand what happened that night. But after reading the last entry of that guy's blog I wonder if my experience is related to his experience of, "there is only one mind"."

This is the quote from the blog that I mentioned:
"About five of us went out there and we dropped the acid. At some point John began to play a certain repeating series of notes and I felt my hands start to rise above my head. I resisted this and was a little disturbed. I didn’t know what was happening. I noticed some art on the walls. It was medieval knights on horseback. They changed into oriental knights. The force was getting stronger and stronger and I thought someone in the room was a witch and putting a spell on me. I didn’t know anything at all about what was happening to me.

I said to myself, “Just let go.” And I did. As I did my personality vanished. Everything I knew about myself that was familiar went away and I became aware that what was happening to me was connected to the man on the beach. My hands began to go through a series of mudras such as you see in Hindu posters and statues. Suddenly I was right inside John’s mind and could read his thoughts as clearly as if he were speaking them. He felt the intrusion and resisted powerfully. However, there was nothing to resist against since there is only one mind."

I believe it came from here: http://lesvisible.blogspot.com/
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Re: LSD and group mind experiences.

Postby Tomas » Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:24 pm

Ryan Rudolph wrote:Moreover, does group mind experiences have any effect on the collective consciousness by somehow making it easier for the 'unconsciousness' to unplug from the stream?

Only insofar as can be illustrated by observing a school of fish, a flock of geese and why they unconsciously follow one-another.

Some (group of five) folks plan ahead to trip together. One of us lucky stiffs runs into a friend of a friend who has the right connections that scores us 10 hits of LSD. We all (individually) go through the motions thereafter leading up to the (say) Friday evening coming up. The daily drab consisting of what music may play, specialty foods to consume, proper clothing depending on weather, afternoon or all-night trip. Whose house (the leader-guide) will this occur at? Will the non-tripping spouses be present. (I've always voted "no".)

Life has its unconscious moments, Ryan.

No TV on, too in-your-face.

Of course, the closeness of the walls become confining so we all pile out to the guide's back yard to witness the starry, starry sky......

PS - And it's really true about peeing while tripping on acid, the pee "colors" are like the rainbow. It (sometimes) depends what one drinks and what sort of lighting is in the bathroom.

When one "group trips" there is a unique synergy. Unexplainable.

.
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Re: LSD and group mind experiences.

Postby mental vagrant » Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:36 pm

= mental illness
unbound
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Re: LSD and group mind experiences.

Postby GodsDaughter1 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:51 am

Puff the magic dragon

Puff the magic dragon speaks for itself in this song, what do you suppose it means? It means you puff the magic stuff being the dragon. It's a song about marijuana, the lyrics are obvious.

Puff the magic dragon
lived by the sea
and frolic in the autumn mist
and a land called honoli

Little Jackie paper knew that dragon puff
and blah blah blah blah and all that fancy stuff
etc. etc.
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The 'get high gang' rides again ;-)

Postby Tomas » Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:14 pm

Ryan Rudolph wrote:There hasn't been much research into the impact of LSD induced group mind experiences,

Come on down to where I live and bring along some of that good stuff the 'cid, from British Columbia. I've a few folks that'll drop most anything. If they get off good, hey, then I'll be not far behind with a couple hits.

You can bring a video camera and film the whole trip. Beware tho, contact buzzes have been known to occur :-/

Take a trip and never leave the farm...

PS Leave the B.C. Bud up there, there's plenty here ;-)
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