What is Your Vision?

[mensa-maniac]

Animus, that was a bit cruel.

But I would like to give it a try! I will not succeed, I know this for sure...

I'll pick on you animus, for fun. You regret some things greatly, in the present, on a day to day basis. You pay too close attention to the internal, and don't experience enough of the external, your (amount) of friendships suffer. However with your few strong friends, they know you and accept you greatly. You aren't depressed, but you've seen the dark side of life, possibly a numbness that little others can describe other than yourself. You wish things to be different sometimes, when you aren't feeling the best. But that's long gone, right?! You're feeling better now!

You can only see in others what you see in yourself.

Mensa says: Jesus Christ you're smart! Animus could learn from you!

[Animus]

Animus, that was a bit cruel.

But I would like to give it a try! I will not succeed, I know this for sure...

I'll pick on you animus, for fun. You regret some things greatly, in the present, on a day to day basis. You pay too close attention to the internal, and don't experience enough of the external, your (amount) of friendships suffer. However with your few strong friends, they know you and accept you greatly. You aren't depressed, but you've seen the dark side of life, possibly a numbness that little others can describe other than yourself. You wish things to be different sometimes, when you aren't feeling the best. But that's long gone, right?! You're feeling better now!

You can only see in others what you see in yourself.

Well, there are elements of that I won't deny such as my lack of friendship. but its actually because I'd rather have nothing to do with most people. I deliberately persuade them to abandon me as a friend or relative. For example I might say to them: Master of puppets is pulling your strings! Twisting your mind and smashing your dreams! Blinded by me you can't see a thing. Obey your master!

I try to tell people what I mean part of it is their reaction to it... as in this whole exercise. The reason that a person is likely to deny such claims as the one's I made is because they are revealing of irrational content and none of us wants to be seen as irrational. All the rejection and defensiveness has got a mind of its own. The question is do you control it or does it control you. Now its easy to rhyme off a bunch of positive characteristics people are anxious to be seen as positive. That's more or less just a waste of time and a nifty little temp fantasy.

[Animus]

Animus, that was a bit cruel.

But I would like to give it a try! I will not succeed, I know this for sure...

I'll pick on you animus, for fun. You regret some things greatly, in the present, on a day to day basis. You pay too close attention to the internal, and don't experience enough of the external, your (amount) of friendships suffer. However with your few strong friends, they know you and accept you greatly. You aren't depressed, but you've seen the dark side of life, possibly a numbness that little others can describe other than yourself. You wish things to be different sometimes, when you aren't feeling the best. But that's long gone, right?! You're feeling better now!

You can only see in others what you see in yourself.

Mensa says: Jesus Christ you're smart! Animus could learn from you!

We could all learn something from each other if we listen to them instead of posturing.

[IJesusChrist]

The post I made that I framed to see as an attempt to describe you was a description of myself.

You can only see in others what you see in yourself!

[Animus]

The post I made that I framed to see as an attempt to describe you was a description of myself.

You can only see in others what you see in yourself!

I agree with that and I've found a lot of people in myself. That's where the "numbness" comes from. I've seen the down-side of up and everything between. Its not what its made out to be. People who accept ignorance and fail to see past their primate characteristics are arguably worse than some criminals. The criminal is faced with accusation, guilt and doubt, he is under judgement by the truth. Those other animals fail to even question themselves. Something Charles Manson said stuck with me, he said "I am you. You created me". This was after he spent several years in solitary confinement. Not surprisingly, having seen his own face he prefers to remain in solitary confinement. The Manson type is not the result of genetic mutation but a socioeconomic anomaly. He is the result of everyone else's pride and prejudice. Which they themselves perceive to be noble, and having not sought the truth of themselves, and likely never will. The down-side of up is that the down-side is the consequence of the up-side and vice versa. Its really non-dual. So in terms of right action I'm faced with this.

Perhaps the shepherd allegory works well here. People are often compared to sheep and for good reason, they share a lot of similarities. Sheep, particularly domesticated sheep (Ovis aries) tend to huddle together and wonder somewhat aimlessly. They have a large periphery and can even see behind themselves, but they lack depth perception and don't see very far ahead of them. So they wonder about looking for greener pastures, unable to see what might lie in the distance. They are attracted to and repelled by circumstances of their immediate environment, such as food or predators. These forces of attraction and repulsion drive the activity of the herd. Herd members have the tendency to follow each other if one decides to move, but their lack of depth means they don't move very far. Shepherds have used a number of means for herding sheep to desired destinations. Shepherds would typically use dogs or horses to frighten the sheep, to keep them closely huddled and moving in the right direction. However, some shepherds used buckets of food to lure the sheep instead of frightening them. If there is a way of leading by food, appealing to what people perceive to be what they want, but instead leading them to a different destination (wisdom), instead of chasing them, that is a serious consideration of mine.

[Tomas]

Not surprisingly, having seen his own face he prefers to remain in solitary confinement

No, he would be killed his first day in the general population. That's why he "prefers" solitary.

[Animus]

Not surprisingly, having seen his own face he prefers to remain in solitary confinement

No, he would be killed his first day in the general population. That's why he "prefers" solitary.

That's what I said. I just didn't say it simplistically and out of disdain. This is actually exactly what I mean by the down-side of up. You think you are up and Manson is down, and in so doing you create your own enemy. Society is constantly creating enemies and the enemies they create don't understand it themselves, although many of them eventually realize the symbiotics. Whereas you prefer to view Manson as an individual with the freedom from his own nature to rise above and be a perfect beacon of love and truth. Or essentially burn in the hell that will be imposed upon him for his transgressions. And yet, we are all born in ignorance, amongst mass delusion. That's quite the expectation and one not being fulfilled by most average people. Perhaps most egregious about this attitude is the unwillingness to accept the evolution of a criminal mind into a beacon of love and truth. The disdain for Manson will never allow him to be anything but a monster. He's been cast into inescapable hell, and its his peers who dun it. Ultimately, your statements originate not from a bottom-up understanding and respect for humanity, but the fact that his name irks you and you associate it with violent crime. You get "hot" hearing his name and don't have any respect for him. Whereas I see him as a piece of the puzzle of humanity. He's as much a product of the puzzle as is the puzzle a product of him.

[Tomas]

Ultimately, your statements originate not from a bottom-up understanding and respect for humanity, but the fact that his name irks you and you associate it with violent crime. You get "hot" hearing his name and don't have any respect for him. Whereas I see him as a piece of the puzzle of humanity. He's as much a product of the puzzle as is the puzzle a product of him.

No, I've been to that prison a couple three times (as a part of my earlier work in an unrelated field) since moving to California. I lived in North Dakota at the time of those killing sprees, 1968-69. I never had any dislike of the fellow or his cohorts. What's an interesting part of where he lived was it was an old Hollywood movie set AND a CIA mind-control center.

The same CIA stepped on LSD batches that he was feeding to his family was also the same batches that went to Altamont during the Rolling Stones concert - the Hell's Angels beating to death of the concertgoer. Those same tainted LSD batches made their way to VietNam, some troops went nuts and did a couple massacres.

I understood your analogy but I've not now (or never) a bit of hate for Uncle Charlie & his Company. Television propaganda of the time didn't influence me.

At that time (in space) the girlfriend and I had a couple children to feed and we had to make rent and work our tails off. We didn't have time for television "programming".

I didn't have my appointment with VietNam until 1971.

I partied with David Berkowitz a couple times while he was (supposedly) killing those people in New York City. Was back in North Dakota for a visit and visiting some friends-of-friends who were tripping with Dave and John Carr. I remember he didn't blink but once. Now, he's a haunted man (born again jesus freak). Go figure.

PS - Much those same for the dude, Michael David Chapman, that blasted John Lennon. Shit happens. No hatred allowed on my part.

Tomas (the tank)
VietNam veteran - 1971

[Carl G]

Tomas, do you have any time unaccounted for--time periods for which you cannot remember where you were or what you did-- in your life? Just curious.

[Kunga]

This was my vision when i was 17 years old :



the dry snow slides between the yellow sky
each flake streaming down a copper straw
and never again to fly in the sky

the wind sifts and becomes a misty air
blowing against the copper straws
clanging clanging millionz and zillionz
the copper straws hanging from nowhere..everywhere

and the stars pollenate the earth
liquid flowers flow between the grass threads
instantly the threads curl
while the flowing slurps down a drain

nothing left but a smooth glass earth
and a blue smoke swirling inside it

"And in the begining God created the Heavens and the Earth"
And in the ending..God pulled His plug....



(1967)

[IJesusChrist]

YOU'RE 60!?

Animus,

I don't like the term sheep, we are not that stupid. I rather like children in a sandbox. You have fun, you have toys; materialism. You create, destroy, make friends and enemies, you share and take. You play with these toys and show off them to others, as if you're the coolest kid in the sandbox.

I find alot of people do not believe what they see on TV, that they laugh at, and realize the truth of mind control, you know. But they don't like it, because the herd doesn't like it.

It's becoming a fad to think outside the box, to take psychadelics, to turn off your TV, to tell your children about recycling & pollution, and how bad oil companies are.

It's becoming a FAD. It's becoming popular to be... smart, to be green, to see the other side of the moon. It is not sheer curiousity, intelligence, nor the seeking of enlightenment that does this, its not individualism, its a fad in society. It's a fucking fad to be smart.

Why is it, that even if we are to become smart, we STILL cannot see our hand in front of our faces? Why is it that I see children in a sandbox everywhere I go? Is there truth behind my vision? Or is my ego just that big?

[Tomas]

Tomas, do you have any time unaccounted for--time periods for which you cannot remember where you were or what you did-- in your life? Just curious.

I'll reply more in depth, tomorrow. But .. Thanks, Carl. Really :-)

Somewhere back in grade school (7th-8th grade), an instructor suggested a diary (mine was a notebook) and record a few daily actions. Mine started out with perhaps 5-6 entries, none of which were life-changing ;-)

Smoking pot, tripping on LSD :-)

My VietNam time I rarely wrote any thoughts. I made rank fast, a PFC after Advanced Training prior to VietNam just didn't have enough time to soak up all the bullshit (propaganda) they hammer into ones' very soul, or essence wherever that area of relativity lies. After being whacked by the rocket-propelled-grenade (RPG) and waking up with a morphine-drip, it musta been a year or so of soul-searching for who or what had become of the real "me".

20 years in politics and the constant air travel (and all-encompassing jetlag) from city to city including all the overseas junkets paid by the politicos, lobbyists, Uncle Sam etc. and and so on and so forth. My job description was to do the "initial interview" with the aspiring (potential) candidate, if the person make it past me we didn't sign on to run their campaign. Political party didn't matter. (So yeah, that's where a lot of my note-taking ended up, in a confidentiality agreement - off-limits to this day..) Didn't keep the greatest of recollections written up so the secretary kinda kept tabs for me. However, shitloads of photographs and videos etc. You know? - got to see the world and pretty much all it had to offer. The girlfriend and kids were allowed to travel to a lot of the places so that made for better memories .. ya know? More later... thanks, dude.

[Steven Coyle]

how to free mace: "ace slide" which eventually heps ya to "inter"

food magic = debala

[IJesusChrist]

Tomas, do you have any time unaccounted for--time periods for which you cannot remember where you were or what you did-- in your life? Just curious.

I'll reply more in depth, tomorrow. But .. Thanks, Carl. Really :-)

Somewhere back in grade school (7th-8th grade), an instructor suggested a diary (mine was a notebook) and record a few daily actions. Mine started out with perhaps 5-6 entries, none of which were life-changing ;-)

Smoking pot, tripping on LSD :-)

My VietNam time I rarely wrote any thoughts. I made rank fast, a PFC after Advanced Training prior to VietNam just didn't have enough time to soak up all the bullshit (propaganda) they hammer into ones' very soul, or essence wherever that area of relativity lies. After being whacked by the rocket-propelled-grenade (RPG) and waking up with a morphine-drip, it musta been a year or so of soul-searching for who or what had become of the real "me".

20 years in politics and the constant air travel (and all-encompassing jetlag) from city to city including all the overseas junkets paid by the politicos, lobbyists, Uncle Sam etc. and and so on and so forth. My job description was to do the "initial interview" with the aspiring (potential) candidate, if the person make it past me we didn't sign on to run their campaign. Political party didn't matter. (So yeah, that's where a lot of my note-taking ended up, in a confidentiality agreement - off-limits to this day..) Didn't keep the greatest of recollections written up so the secretary kinda kept tabs for me. However, shitloads of photographs and videos etc. You know? - got to see the world and pretty much all it had to offer. The girlfriend and kids were allowed to travel to a lot of the places so that made for better memories .. ya know? More later... thanks, dude.

Sounds like you saw all the politics, and everything society had to offer. Western & economic society at that, too. Don't forget of the fern leaf.

[Animus]

Ultimately, your statements originate not from a bottom-up understanding and respect for humanity, but the fact that his name irks you and you associate it with violent crime. You get "hot" hearing his name and don't have any respect for him. Whereas I see him as a piece of the puzzle of humanity. He's as much a product of the puzzle as is the puzzle a product of him.

No, I've been to that prison a couple three times (as a part of my earlier work in an unrelated field) since moving to California. I lived in North Dakota at the time of those killing sprees, 1968-69. I never had any dislike of the fellow or his cohorts. What's an interesting part of where he lived was it was an old Hollywood movie set AND a CIA mind-control center.

The same CIA stepped on LSD batches that he was feeding to his family was also the same batches that went to Altamont during the Rolling Stones concert - the Hell's Angels beating to death of the concertgoer. Those same tainted LSD batches made their way to VietNam, some troops went nuts and did a couple massacres.

I understood your analogy but I've not now (or never) a bit of hate for Uncle Charlie & his Company. Television propaganda of the time didn't influence me.

At that time (in space) the girlfriend and I had a couple children to feed and we had to make rent and work our tails off. We didn't have time for television "programming".

I didn't have my appointment with VietNam until 1971.

I partied with David Berkowitz a couple times while he was (supposedly) killing those people in New York City. Was back in North Dakota for a visit and visiting some friends-of-friends who were tripping with Dave and John Carr. I remember he didn't blink but once. Now, he's a haunted man (born again jesus freak). Go figure.

PS - Much those same for the dude, Michael David Chapman, that blasted John Lennon. Shit happens. No hatred allowed on my part.

Tomas (the tank)
VietNam veteran - 1971

Oh great, that resolves all the dilemmas of moral responsibility. Its all seamless now that I know you partied with Berkowitz.

[Animus]

Animus, a good and proper pied piper of the absolute, with no blood on his hands and forgiveness in his heart, leading the flock to ...justice? lol

I think you are mistaking me for the mythical Perfect One.

I have gotten my hands bloody and payed the price for it, my experiences inform my intuitions, but my actual claims are not grounded in them at all. They are grounded in sound reason and experimental evidence. I'd be better perceived as one who sacrifices pleasure to pick up a book and perform a serious study for no other purpose than to have a better understanding. As much as I've tried to relate my findings to the masses of pleasure-seeking folk, they only react with hostility, contempt or ridicule. The members of this forum are no exception and hence forth I will be appearing less frequently.

[Kelly Jones]

Animus.

I'm curious to know whether you regarded my trying to relate my findings about ego-dynamics to you as "reacting with hostility, contempt, or ridicule", in Atum's thread on the consciousness of women. You didn't respond, so I figured you had something to think about.

However, since you now don't mention whether you found all members of this forum to react thusly, or just some, I'm wondering whether you found my analysis unwarranted, but decided to let the matter slip away without mentioning anything.

Just going on a hunch here. I can't be sure. For instance, IJesusChrist posted his distaste about "men's egos" in Atum's thread, presumably meaning that he thought all misogynistic views were ego-driven, and then declared he'd be leaving because of the size of "internet egos". But he never addressed his challenge to me directly, I guess because he couldn't wrap his head around the "all misogynists are egotistical, therefore a female misogynist is.... um....". Thus, he says nothing, and slips away without openly addressing the matter at all.

So my hunch is that you hold a similar view: that criticising women's unconsciousness and analysing all the facets of its egotism, is only egotistical drivel. If so, would you like to investigate it openly, rather than leaving with these matters unspoken?



Of course, if my hunch is wrong, then no drama. Your first post in this thread seems to indicate I might be, but then if you find the forum to be characterised by people who maliciously attack the messenger who bears good news, then that would indicate I might not be......

[Blair]

Bear in mind, Kelly Jones will outgrow all of this by the time she is 35.

[Kelly Jones]

Grow out of what?

I was born in 1976, so my 35th year starts soon.

[Dan Rowden]

To accuse someone of hate is such an easy thing; to mount an actual argument, a test of character.

[Carmel]

Hi Animus,

I've always appreciated your contributions to this forum..your sense of objectivity and level headedness, superior knowledge of anatomy and physiology and your personal philosophies, as well. maybe you just need a break(?)

[Carl G]

In the case of Jesus, and Animus, too, and Alex while we're at it, and Kelly, for that matter, those whose split from here, especially with announcement of such, are those who were lately posting tons.

[Tomas]

In the case of Jesus, and Animus, too, and Alex while we're at it, and Kelly, for that matter, those whose split from here, especially with announcement of such, are those who were lately posting tons.

Carl,

In the same vein:

My My Hey Hey

It's better to burn out than to fade away

And once you're gone, you can't come back

It's better to burn out than it is to rust

There's more to the picture
Than meets the eye

-Jeff Blackburn, Neil Young

[guest_of_logic]

I add my sentiments to those of dejavu and Carmel. I very much appreciate your contributions to this forum, Animus.

[David Quinn]

Same here. I like your honesty, Animus, and your desire for consistency and depth.

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