The Future of Money - Gold Standard - Bitcoin

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Russell Parr
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The Future of Money - Gold Standard - Bitcoin

Post by Russell Parr »

The stark dichotomy of political power between uber rich and the rest of us became most obvious after the housing crash and the trillion dollar bailouts. Yet the public no longer see this as "the big problem" as the elite-bought MSM has been hammering home the false reality of an "economic recovery" since the crash of 08, as well as redirecting attention towards the Kardashians and racial tensions.

It's possible that China (leading the BRICS alliance) is making moves towards reinstating a gold standard in an effort to wrestle the control of the global economy away from the US and Europe. This video illustrates that the BRICS nations have enough military power to defend themselves from the US if this happens. There are plenty of "gold bugs" on the interwebs that support this idea, none more passionately than Jim Willie of goldenjackass.com.

It's not hard to see that governments suppress gold and silver prices with paper markets. The prices of precious metals should rise as inflation continues, similar to what we see with housing prices. But this isn't the case; both gold and silver coast along at boring, consistently low levels. This favors those who print money, consolidating the power of money away from the people and into the hands of those that think they know what's best for everyone. China either already has or have been trying to take control of the gold price from US/Europe and will obviously adjust its price if/when it initiates a global gold standard, creating a more fair economy for the world.

However, even with a gold standard, the supply of money is controlled by governments, and as stated above, gold prices can be manipulated. Enter cryptocurrencies.

Bitcoin is the first successful large scale digital currency to ever come into existence, backed by cryptography and user consensus. It is controlled not by a single group or entity, but by a network of "nodes". Full nodes contain and process the entire transaction history of bitcoin, called a blockchain, and can be ran by anyone with a computer (and enough hard drive space for the blockchain) for around $50 a year. "Miners" are a special kind of full node that uses a much higher degree of computing power, and thus electricity, to participate in 'unlocking' and earning new bitcoins in a predetermined, timed manner. The properties and rate of production of bitcoin cannot be tampered with unless the entire network of nodes agree to it.

Unless there's a serious flaw to be found within the protocol(s), which seem less and less likely as time goes on since bitcoin's inception in 2009, cryptocurrencies will be the best, most fair form of money to ever exist.

What do you guys think? Is there no way China could pull this off? Is bitcoin the future of money? A giant scam?
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: The Future of Money - Gold Standard - Bitcoin

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

I think modern economical markets are often about the complex struggle between adding control and removing or challenging those. Some controls are hidden, others are public. The role of currency type remains irrelevant, ultimately. But the market will never sign on to a volatile currency which cannot be stabilized, simply because it will inhibit having a meaningful market place. It's quite possible the markets become split: the global high-volume market could have its own electronic system, fast, computer-controlled, fictional currency while the individuals will have their own. Or several! But in general, what is not controlled, will bounce up and down sooner or later with the tendency to crash itself or others. Not sure about crypto-currency.
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Russell Parr
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Re: The Future of Money - Gold Standard - Bitcoin

Post by Russell Parr »

Diebert van Rhijn wrote: I think modern economical markets are often about the complex struggle between adding control and removing or challenging those. Some controls are hidden, others are public. The role of currency type remains irrelevant, ultimately.
Hmm. I agree that, for the masses, in everyday situations, the currency type will indeed be irrelevant. All people care about is that they can earn and buy things with whatever is commonly accepted as "money", whether it's pieces of paper or electrons on a network.

I think cryptos has a good chance of becoming "the people's money" in the sense as a legitimate store of wealth, as a way to hedge against the volatility of the government issued money. Kind of like how gold once was. You can see this type of thing happening already in Venezuela for example. As the western economies continues to falter, popularity and trust in cryptos will continue to grow. Also, as of now, cryptos are inaccessible to the masses in the sense that most people don't even know how to acquire or store it. Many of it's evangelists compare it to the internet itself in the early days (the 90s), when sending an email required something like a college degree in computer science. One of the primary goals of the industry is to develop ways to improve this.
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Eric Schiedler
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Re: The Future of Money - Gold Standard - Bitcoin

Post by Eric Schiedler »

Russell Parr wrote:What do you guys think? Is there no way China could pull this off? Is bitcoin the future of money? A giant scam?
Why worry yourself about international currency issues? Is wisdom too boring for you? Do you want to get rich? Has a scrumptous siren tempted you to provide for her with gold? If there is a connection to this topic to wisdom, I'd very much like to hear it, since my degrees are in economics. Any new angle would be appreciated.
Russell Parr wrote:There are plenty of "gold bugs" on the interwebs that support this idea, none more passionately than Jim Willie of goldenjackass.com.
I wouldn't place any stock in any single statement by the gold bugs, except as an anti-truth. If a gold bug says it, they are very likely (99%+) wrong. They have some of the best track records around of being consistenly wrong.
Russell Parr wrote:Unless there's a serious flaw to be found within the protocol(s), which seem less and less likely as time goes on since bitcoin's inception in 2009, cryptocurrencies will be the best, most fair form of money to ever exist.
What do you mean by fair or best? You somewhat implied it previously, that a currency is needed that is politically just. But since cryptocurrencies alone are not a complete economic system, then they can not be just. There is nothing just in having speculators get rich and then crash the bitcoin price periodically or hiding crimes with activities with cryptocurrencies. Furthermore, there could be a "flaw" in the protocol in that it is not particularly useful in many ways.
Russell Parr wrote: I think cryptos has a good chance of becoming "the people's money" in the sense as a legitimate store of wealth, as a way to hedge against the volatility of the government issued money. Kind of like how gold once was. You can see this type of thing happening already in Venezuela for example. As the western economies continues to falter, popularity and trust in cryptos will continue to grow. Also, as of now, cryptos are inaccessible to the masses in the sense that most people don't even know how to acquire or store it. Many of it's evangelists compare it to the internet itself in the early days (the 90s), when sending an email required something like a college degree in computer science. One of the primary goals of the industry is to develop ways to improve this.
I attended the first international BitCoin conference in Austin, TX. Perhaps I rationalized my attendence by believing that I wanted to meet interesting people - rather, I did not, in particular, do so.

On the first session of the first day, the first speaker of the seminar I attended said that cryptocurrencies at this time are limited to use by system administrators and computer security specialists. The biggest scams are in the trade between government fiat money and cryptocurrencies. This problem is one of many to be solved before universal consumer (edit) adoption can establish cryptocurrencies as a political nexus - never mind the fact that the power and communication grid to make BitCoin operate depends upon the stability of governments accused of being unstable with current currency models. In the intervening years since that conference there has been little progress to solve major technical issues with cryptocurrencies. Oh, and most of the companies that attended or sponsored that conference are now out of business. Of course new ones have taken up the slack.
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Russell Parr
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Re: The Future of Money - Gold Standard - Bitcoin

Post by Russell Parr »

Hello Eric,
Eric Schiedler wrote:Why worry yourself about international currency issues? Is wisdom too boring for you? Do you want to get rich? Has a scrumptous siren tempted you to provide for her with gold? If there is a connection to this topic to wisdom, I'd very much like to hear it, since my degrees are in economics. Any new angle would be appreciated.
Well actually, yes, I do want to get rich. Not for the sake of being rich, but for the means it provides as far as financial freedom goes.

No, wisdom has not become boring to me. I treasure it more than anything, and my number one wish and goal is to propagate it as much as I can while I'm alive.

I don't think one has to give up one's core values in wisdom to make an honest living. It does, however, speak to the will and nobility of those that are able to dedicate their entire life to the propagation of wisdom. I admit that I am no Diogenes.
I wouldn't place any stock in any single statement by the gold bugs, except as an anti-truth. If a gold bug says it, they are very likely (99%+) wrong. They have some of the best track records around of being consistenly wrong.
Yes it would most definitely seem that way if the price of gold is consistently suppressed, as I am certain of. If you doubt this, do some research around the web. They will not teach you this at the universities.
What do you mean by fair or best? You somewhat implied it previously, that a currency is needed that is politically just. But since cryptocurrencies alone are not a complete economic system, then they can not be just. There is nothing just in having speculators get rich and then crash the bitcoin price periodically or hiding crimes with activities with cryptocurrencies. Furthermore, there could be a "flaw" in the protocol in that it is not particularly useful in many ways.
I am not sure what you mean. Bitcoin is a complete economic systems within themselves. Miners spend money on electricity to mine it, and people are willing to buy them. That is all that is needed. As for its usefulness, yes the most popular use case as of now is in speculation on it's price. However, it also provides a sufficient means for long term protection of wealth due to the inherent limitation of production. As the price of goods consistently go up under fiat systems, the price of bitcoin must as well, even in the absence of rapid adoption. The only thing that would stop this is it breaking.

It is a common misconception that the scams and criminal use surrounding bitcoin is an indictment against bitcoin itself, ignoring the fact that all currencies are used for such purposes. Similar to the idea that we should ban guns because they can be used by criminals to kill people.
I attended the first international BitCoin conference in Austin, TX. Perhaps I rationalized my attendence by believing that I wanted to meet interesting people - rather, I did not, in particular, do so.

On the first session of the first day, the first speaker of the seminar I attended said that cryptocurrencies at this time are limited to use by system administrators and computer security specialists. The biggest scams are in the trade between government fiat money and cryptocurrencies. This problem is one of many to be solved before universal consumer (edit) adoption can establish cryptocurrencies as a political nexus - never mind the fact that the power and communication grid to make BitCoin operate depends upon the stability of governments accused of being unstable with current currency models. In the intervening years since that conference there has been little progress to solve major technical issues with cryptocurrencies. Oh, and most of the companies that attended or sponsored that conference are now out of business. Of course new ones have taken up the slack.
The crypto industry is indeed a fast evolving field, and it is true that there is no clear answer to how it will be widely used and adopted in the long run.

I disagree that power and communication grids depend on the government. These things can, and should, exist on their own, according to the desires of the populations. The role that governments should play, if any, is in enforcing regulations in compliance with what's best for the population.
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Re: The Future of Money - Gold Standard - Bitcoin

Post by JohnJAu »

Russell Parr wrote: and my number one wish and goal is to propagate it as much as I can while I'm alive.
Propagating it should always be after number one, which should be to 'gain' more wisdom, if possible.

As for bitcoin, I definitely don't see it as any revolutionary currency which will result in a more free economy, that's clearly deluded. It's at best a way for people chasing money to make or keep the value of their money/wealth, and nothing else.

People lack virtue, and so they go to extreme lengths and complexities to try and create economic systems and currencies all founded upon the fact that people lack virtue, instead of just trying to be virtuous.

In fact, I've never come across a virtuous person. It's a pretty simple test really to see if someone is virtuous, it can be figured out with a single question assuming a couple of factors like home ownership: "Can I sleep in the corner of your place or even in a closet out of the way?"
Answer= "No" or even "Why? Explain it to me first or I'll say no and when you do explain I'll say no unless you return some favor"=Christian sin= a man without virtue that does not understand life.
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Russell Parr
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Re: The Future of Money - Gold Standard - Bitcoin

Post by Russell Parr »

JohnJAu wrote:Propagating it should always be after number one, which should be to 'gain' more wisdom, if possible.
No doubt. Of course, once you've got it, you've got it. Embodying it is a whole 'nother animal.
As for bitcoin, I definitely don't see it as any revolutionary currency which will result in a more free economy, that's clearly deluded. It's at best a way for people chasing money to make or keep the value of their money/wealth, and nothing else.
Whether or not something is revolutionary is in the eye of the beholder. Cryptocurrencies won't turn the world into sages but they absolutely do have the capability of providing a more free and open economy, compared to what we have now. This has no bearing on whether or not people will use it to feed their greed in various ways, which will always remain in some degree. It's human nature.
People lack virtue, and so they go to extreme lengths and complexities to try and create economic systems and currencies all founded upon the fact that people lack virtue, instead of just trying to be virtuous.
Propagating virtue is a great idea but so is protecting yourself from those that lack it.
In fact, I've never come across a virtuous person. It's a pretty simple test really to see if someone is virtuous, it can be figured out with a single question assuming a couple of factors like home ownership: "Can I sleep in the corner of your place or even in a closet out of the way?"
Answer= "No" or even "Why? Explain it to me first or I'll say no and when you do explain I'll say no unless you return some favor"=Christian sin= a man without virtue that does not understand life.
Well you've got to admit that most people will naturally consider or expect there to be some ugly baggage that might come with a favor like that. A slippery slope, if you will.
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Re: The Future of Money - Gold Standard - Bitcoin

Post by JohnJAu »

Russell Parr wrote:Well you've got to admit that most people will naturally consider or expect there to be some ugly baggage that might come with a favor like that. A slippery slope, if you will.
Of course but that's the point, virtue without expectation/judgement. Jesus and Lao Tzu expound on this very clearly and the logic is sound. That ideal is so far ahead of the average person that like I mentioned, I doubt I've ever come across a virtuous person.

I had perhaps another 'enlightening' experience last night, you know, that kind where you have some shift in perception, which likely used to happen a lot more frequently when you were first really engaged in philosophy and wisdom? Oftentimes such realization can be deluded especially in early stages due to immaturity of wisdom and of course embodiment of it. This I think was a 'better' more rational and real kind, I'll make a post on it, but one of my conclusions is that one should pay much greater attention to avoiding immoral activity and embodying virtue as much as possible, as it is so easy, and we are all so prone to get stuck in the tendency of, hamstering excuses, doubts, fears, or even focusing on rational downsides, and use those as a way to avoid what is clearly a more wise moral/ethical lifestyle.

What I meant in regard to bitcoin is that, as long as you have an over complicated system that tries to manage and deal with the fact that people are greedy, distrustful, have barriers between each other, etc, then you should never expect anything good to come of it. Personal embodiment of virtue must be at the core of any solution to greater questions of a good structure to society and economy. If you really wanted to be 'rich' you could simply pool your resources with others and live in a damn mansion, but what you're really trying to do is be greedy and continue on in disconnection, doubt, and distrust. I'm not expecting much else to be honest, I likely have all these flaws myself, but I'd ask the same question as Eric, how is bitcoin relevant here? Would it be relevant to talk about the stock market here, or the importance of buying gold, or property investment? All are equal almost exactly in relevance. Post these questions on reddit or something.

As for what you really want to know- whether you're making a good investment- I don't think so at all. At best, make as much money as you can, and then get out before it goes downhill, which seems almost unavoidable to me. Obviously people invested in bitcoin won't tell you that! The long term success of their currency literally relies on that people keep believing their narrative and flocking to it.
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Eric Schiedler
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Re: The Future of Money - Gold Standard - Bitcoin

Post by Eric Schiedler »

Russell Parr wrote:Not for the sake of being rich, but for the means it provides as far as financial freedom goes.
It depends what you mean by financial freedom, which in my observation, as commonly defined, is usually an illusion of financial freedom.
Russell Parr wrote:Yes it would most definitely seem that way if the price of gold is consistently suppressed, as I am certain of.
Whether or not the price is suppressed, the gold bugs should adjust their predictions accordingly; which from the evidence it appears they do not do so.
Russell Parr wrote:Bitcoin is a complete economic systems within themselves. Miners spend money on electricity to mine it, and people are willing to buy them. That is all that is needed.
You can define Bitcoin, the miners, and the online users as a complete system of currency, but it is not an economic model that is complete, because an economic model has to contain Labor, Land and Capital components. These in turn affect the viability of the entire Bitcoin system.
Russell Parr wrote:As the price of goods consistently go up under fiat systems, the price of bitcoin must as well, even in the absence of rapid adoption. The only thing that would stop this is it breaking.
Deflation is a very real and probable problem for the economy in many sectors, which is one of the main problems solved by expansionary fiat currency systems.
Russell Parr wrote:It is a common misconception that the scams and criminal use surrounding bitcoin is an indictment against bitcoin itself, ignoring the fact that all currencies are used for such purposes.
Then Bitcoin is not, from this measure, inherently "best" or more "fair," since it is supposed to block out government manipulation, but apparently the technology is not yet close to block scams.
Russell Parr wrote:I disagree that power and communication grids depend on the government. These things can, and should, exist on their own, according to the desires of the populations. The role that governments should play, if any, is in enforcing regulations in compliance with what's best for the population.
The role of government may be one of the fundamental, axiomatic assumptions required for economic models, and issue that deserves its own thread as it needs to be fully investigated.

I do think electronic currencies have many applications, if for no other reason that fiat currencies are widely used electronically. I suspect there will have to be several generations of development - the ones in widest use will be likely be quite different than the ones we see today.



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Russell Parr
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Re: The Future of Money - Gold Standard - Bitcoin

Post by Russell Parr »

JohnJAu wrote:but one of my conclusions is that one should pay much greater attention to avoiding immoral activity and embodying virtue as much as possible, as it is so easy, and we are all so prone to get stuck in the tendency of, hamstering excuses, doubts, fears, or even focusing on rational downsides, and use those as a way to avoid what is clearly a more wise moral/ethical lifestyle.
Yes, but I am compelled to warn not to push too hard. It isn't healthy to live in constant disappointment, living under such stress can deteriorate one's health and mind. We can grow only at the rate that our karma allows.
JohnJAu wrote:What I meant in regard to bitcoin is that, as long as you have an over complicated system that tries to manage and deal with the fact that people are greedy, distrustful, have barriers between each other, etc, then you should never expect anything good to come of it. Personal embodiment of virtue must be at the core of any solution to greater questions of a good structure to society and economy. If you really wanted to be 'rich' you could simply pool your resources with others and live in a damn mansion, but what you're really trying to do is be greedy and continue on in disconnection, doubt, and distrust.
If only the world valued virtue as much as we do! We wouldn't need all of the safeguards complicating our lives. Could you imagine if technological developments were aim towards the greater good alone? Alas, life is more complicated than that. But even so, what of it? It is all by the whims of nature, gentle streams and raging storms. Yes, be virtuous and spread virtue, but the kingdom of heaven is always accessible to the virtuous, regardless of impact and outcome.
[...]I'd ask the same question as Eric, how is bitcoin relevant here? Would it be relevant to talk about the stock market here, or the importance of buying gold, or property investment? All are equal almost exactly in relevance. Post these questions on reddit or something.
You would be right to say that this topic has little to naught to do with wisdom. That's why I posted it in this subforum. I obviously find it fascinating, and was wondering if anyone else here had any interest or opinions on it.
As for what you really want to know- whether you're making a good investment- I don't think so at all. At best, make as much money as you can, and then get out before it goes downhill, which seems almost unavoidable to me. Obviously people invested in bitcoin won't tell you that! The long term success of their currency literally relies on that people keep believing their narrative and flocking to it.
You're not off base with the last line, as that is true with all things. Whether or not that narrative has a firm basis in reality, we might disagree on. I think it does, and I think that blockchain technology, not just bitcoin, will play a big role in ways both predictable and not as of yet in the global economy.
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Re: The Future of Money - Gold Standard - Bitcoin

Post by JohnJAu »

Russell Parr wrote:I am compelled to warn not to push too hard. It isn't healthy to live in constant disappointment, living under such stress can deteriorate one's health and mind. We can grow only at the rate that our karma allows.
One of the lessons I learned the hard way actually, that's probably why guilt was considered a sin if I'm not mistaken. Stress and high demand has a backwards effect and leads one to do worse and turn in on themselves. I added these to my knowledge of character flaws, immoral behavior, bad ethics, etc, and it has had a great effect.
Whether or not that narrative has a firm basis in reality, we might disagree on.
I honestly don't have near enough knowledge on the subject to determine that, actually, the reason I think it won't go anywhere, is because I'm conspiratorially minded in a sense in regard to the economy, the pyramidal structure of things. It seems to me that a certain level of economic slavery(as opposed to freedom) as well as rates of homelessness, prison incarceration, etc, are all literally and intentionally maintained, for a number of reasons, varying depending on the situation. For example, if real crimes actually came to an end, people would wonder if we really still needed armed police patrolling the streets extorting us for money. Crime and criminals, along with even mental health problems, actually serves to grant the state more power.
The same is true for self sustainable homes and how that would do the opposite of serving the power of the state, etc and so on. I could go on for a while but you get the gist. I simply don't believe 'the powers at be' would allow this sort of thing to reach its presumed potential. I think that economic freedom is being suppressed intentionally, as is seemingly the natural result of capitalism of course.
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Russell Parr
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Re: The Future of Money - Gold Standard - Bitcoin

Post by Russell Parr »

Eric Schiedler wrote:It depends what you mean by financial freedom, which in my observation, as commonly defined, is usually an illusion of financial freedom.
True. Ultimately, I aim to set myself up for a simple life in retirement.
Whether or not the price is suppressed, the gold bugs should adjust their predictions accordingly; which from the evidence it appears they do not do so.
It's impossible to predict when and to what degree the paper markets will be used to suppress the prices of precious metals, unless you have an insider at the board meetings.
You can define Bitcoin, the miners, and the online users as a complete system of currency, but it is not an economic model that is complete, because an economic model has to contain Labor, Land and Capital components. These in turn affect the viability of the entire Bitcoin system.
Hmm, well if you put it that way I guess you're right.
Deflation is a very real and probable problem for the economy in many sectors, which is one of the main problems solved by expansionary fiat currency systems.
Fiat systems are certainly useful and have their place, but cryptocurrencies can, do, and will as well.
Then Bitcoin is not, from this measure, inherently "best" or more "fair," since it is supposed to block out government manipulation, but apparently the technology is not yet close to block scams.
When it comes to money, government manipulations are notoriously unfair, so I disagree. As for scams, where there is money of any sort, scammers and conmen are lurking.
The role of government may be one of the fundamental, axiomatic assumptions required for economic models, and issue that deserves its own thread as it needs to be fully investigated.
I am particularly interested in the corruption and lunacy of the Federal Reserve. Although, it isn't exactly part of the government..
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Russell Parr
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Re: The Future of Money - Gold Standard - Bitcoin

Post by Russell Parr »

JohnJAu wrote:One of the lessons I learned the hard way actually, that's probably why guilt was considered a sin if I'm not mistaken. Stress and high demand has a backwards effect and leads one to do worse and turn in on themselves. I added these to my knowledge of character flaws, immoral behavior, bad ethics, etc, and it has had a great effect.
I'm not sure if I've heard of guilt being a sin, but would certainly qualify to be one as it involves an attached belief in the self. A hard lesson learned here as well, one that I still deal with.
I honestly don't have near enough knowledge on the subject to determine that, actually, the reason I think it won't go anywhere, is because I'm conspiratorially minded in a sense in regard to the economy, the pyramidal structure of things. It seems to me that a certain level of economic slavery(as opposed to freedom) as well as rates of homelessness, prison incarceration, etc, are all literally and intentionally maintained, for a number of reasons, varying depending on the situation. For example, if real crimes actually came to an end, people would wonder if we really still needed armed police patrolling the streets extorting us for money. Crime and criminals, along with even mental health problems, actually serves to grant the state more power.
The same is true for self sustainable homes and how that would do the opposite of serving the power of the state, etc and so on. I could go on for a while but you get the gist. I simply don't believe 'the powers at be' would allow this sort of thing to reach its presumed potential. I think that economic freedom is being suppressed intentionally, as is seemingly the natural result of capitalism of course.
Reminds me of Metropolis. I agree that there's a lot of conspiracy that perpetuates these things, but lately I've grown to accept it as a matter of human nature as well. That's what's so ironic about it all, that will and whim are ultimately one and the same. Masculinity compels us to seek out and perceive will and also to convert whim into will, for better or worse.
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Russell Parr
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Re: The Future of Money - Gold Standard - Bitcoin

Post by Russell Parr »

JohnJAu wrote:I honestly don't have near enough knowledge on the subject to determine that, actually, the reason I think it won't go anywhere, is because I'm conspiratorially minded in a sense in regard to the economy, the pyramidal structure of things. It seems to me that a certain level of economic slavery(as opposed to freedom) as well as rates of homelessness, prison incarceration, etc, are all literally and intentionally maintained, for a number of reasons, varying depending on the situation. For example, if real crimes actually came to an end, people would wonder if we really still needed armed police patrolling the streets extorting us for money. Crime and criminals, along with even mental health problems, actually serves to grant the state more power.
The same is true for self sustainable homes and how that would do the opposite of serving the power of the state, etc and so on. I could go on for a while but you get the gist. I simply don't believe 'the powers at be' would allow this sort of thing to reach its presumed potential. I think that economic freedom is being suppressed intentionally, as is seemingly the natural result of capitalism of course.
Almost forgot to address your actual point here.

The entire point and the beauty of bitcoin is that it is very hard to manipulate. Anyone who owns a "wallet" connects to a network of nodes that would be very difficult to take over due to decentralization. Every transaction must be confirmed across multiple nodes across this network. Every node has the entire code and ledger (transaction history) stored within it, so to take down bitcoin, you would have to take down the entire network of nodes which are dispersed throughout the world. While I don't have the technical expertise to review the software (which is open source, meaning anyone can see all of its inner workings) and confirm how well it does this, I've been following the industry and developers involved long enough to believe that it is legit. It's been around for over 8 years now, and bankers and governments worldwide have been trying to stifle its adoption to no avail. If it is indeed some sort of giant ponzi scheme, or government conspiracy, it will be one of the greatest ones to have ever existed (Ok, maybe not. Perpetual war is hard to beat). This seems extremely unlikely at this point, but time will tell.

For anyone interested in learning more how it works I suggest watching a few Andreas Antonopoulos videos on youtube.
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Re: The Future of Money - Gold Standard - Bitcoin

Post by JohnJAu »

Russell Parr wrote: If it is indeed some sort of giant ponzi scheme, or government conspiracy, it will be one of the greatest ones to have ever existed. This seems extremely unlikely at this point, but time will tell.
I meant to say not that it was a conspiracy, just that it might be suppressed.

And I think you're over exaggerating how hard it would be to end. If governments truly wanted to crash it, they would just make it illegal, who would stop them? All it would take is to blame some bitcoin users for scamming, or terrorism, etc, and then ban it. This is the core of my conspiratorial views, I don't think ordinary people really have a say anymore, any freedom being an illusion/fantasy which only grows more distant. Sure people get small wins here and there, but it seems the overall direction is continuously manipulated to head toward greater state regulation and absolute power as well as all those downsides I mentioned. While simultaneously making people believe they are getting what they decided upon or that some new avenues of hope are opening up.

To put it like this, how does bitcoin lead to economic freedom if everyone is living in glorified storage containers stacked on top of one another, cannot afford land, isolated, no free speech, surveilled, and perhaps even micro-chipped or worse?

I think a huge level of socio and mental engineering is going on.
Want people to agree to live in tiny apartments?
Let's ruin the institution of marriage, give them all mental health issues like social anxiety, propagandize the greatness of living in a city, and make them believe it's what they really wanted all long.

Also, we were all basically told we're fucked and the only way out is to get rich and gain economic freedom etc, and despite logically knowing that only a small percentage of people will be able to climb to the top of this fantasy, everyone still gives it life by chasing those arbitrary 'wealth' numbers on a screen.
Throw in some propaganda about how absolutely no economic system but inequality and capitalism makes sense, that every other option is commie hell incarnate and reform is impossible, and thus you have agents of the matrix that defend the entire thing; 'you earn what you work for fairly!'. Yet no one can answer how it could possibly be true that a person could own thousands of acres of land?

In essence, bitcoin is a giant scam whether or not it works out, because it has the same core problem; assignation of value to something arbitrary and illogical. So complicated I could barely grasp what the fuck was going on after looking at multiple flow charts trying to dumb it down for me.
That's what an economy really is based around, what people value. If people's values were all logical, you'd get a thriving economy. It just wouldn't favor the same people in the same ways.

I agree about freedom tho and don't see any other option, my initial yet primary goal is to have as much free time as possible for learning wisdom. It's an odd thing really, to be born into an economic system which is by all accounts absurd.
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