The social justice wars

Discussion of science, technology, politics, and other topics that aren't strictly philosophical.
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Santiago Odo
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Re: The social justice wars

Post by Santiago Odo » Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:45 pm

Could we all just temper our emotion and be more thoughtful?
This really got through to me. Diebert. I cried a little bit. I notice that you sent a PM but I can't open it, I don't know why. I support you in leading the charge here for greater thoughtfulness.

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jupiviv
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Re: The social justice wars

Post by jupiviv » Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:05 am

Kevin Solway wrote:The religion comes to the fore in times of desperation.
Diebert van Rhijn wrote:I think the level of discussion on these topics is more often than not rather disappointing, suggesting that these "justice wars", if it's a real serious phenomenon, might have invaded more than we think.
In other words, people are happy to tolerate others so long as they feel safe and content. And that is the primary problem with the idea that all "whites" will protect their own against the 5% Muslim population in the event of the culture/justice wars. When the lights go out everyday and people can't buy as much food as they want at any time, culture war will be last thing on their minds.

The whole notion of a culture war/4D chessss is only credible to people who have expended very little thought on the singular absence of any *need* in them to support or distrust anyone to the point of real conflict. Blinded to its roots, the desire for utility and convenience can only be met by a world made in its own image. It's choices determine their own conditions of operation as well as the imperatives that guide them. Categorical choice is the idea of the universally legislating will of every choosing being.

Women will only revoke their privileges when the people who gave them those privileges stop disrespecting them. Trump will build a continent spanning concrete wall when the swamp lets him cut taxes for the people who will benefit the most from the orgy of financial speculation sparked by discussion/gossip about those tax cuts. Cheesecake lovers will choose to abandon cheesecake stocks and BTFD on Amazon when the latter starts giving away free cheescakes with Game of thrones boxsets.

Religion never went this far, since it drew the line at the afterlife. But now everyone knows that the afterlife doesn't exist.

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David Quinn
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Re: The social justice wars

Post by David Quinn » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:13 pm

America is entering a very dangerous period now. Trump's presidency is all but over. His sheer ineptitude and vacuousness has led him blindly into a hole from which he cannot escape. He has no choice but to go fully feral. This is not going to be pretty to watch.

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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: The social justice wars

Post by Diebert van Rhijn » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:55 pm

Nah.... David, I think you're just buying into the anxiety of the age reflecting in your daily newspapers. We've been living with madmen creating camps, shutting down presses, starting wars and threatening nuclear destruction or unleashing biological weapons since decades (to say the least) -- not just in the US but think about the Soviets, Russia, Pakistan etc. The 20th century survived two world wars! This "impending doom" is really a façade and not because there's no impending doom.

What is falling part however is what I'd call the international post-WW2 order. That's certainly the more interesting process here and the events in the USA are then only fall-out or perhaps more like a cramped, largely ineffective reaction to this process: the EU project fragmenting, Russia and China upsetting the balance, Iran re-asserting and many nations still on the brink of defaulting economically and socially. "But where danger is, grows the saving power also." --Hölderlin

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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: The social justice wars

Post by Diebert van Rhijn » Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:14 am

David Quinn wrote:if a Fox presenter decided to speak the truth about climate change - they too would be dismissed from their employment in no time.
Just a quick random recent grab from the site.
- Too hot to handle: Study shows Earth's killer heat worsens
- Federal study sounds a dire warning about climate change
Okay, the video does give skeptics a voice to comment as well, as usual with Fox. But most journalists report on events in combination with the interests of their audience, not select a "truth". This holds as well for New York Times.
Speaking of the birther nonsense, I had a laugh when I saw this widely reported item a couple of months ago.
Yeah, it's bat-shit crazy! Just like the many things people thought up about Trump. Demanding his tax "certificates", a wild story involving peeing & hookers in Moscow and then of course Russia hacking elections in some clever undetected or otherwise psychological way. And so on. Of you still believe all those near insane, very hard to completely disprove ideas?

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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: The social justice wars

Post by Diebert van Rhijn » Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:27 am

David Quinn wrote:Yes, but hostility is at the root of it all.
Ignorance is, of course, what's really at the root.
Because old school white males have a long history of treating women and minority groups like shit.
"It was the males who formed a buffer between the females and the dangerous world outside. It was their role to deal with the life threatening situations that regularly cropped up. So while men evolved the necessary courage and strength to succeed in this role, the females were left free to develop the delicate charms of femininity." -- David Quinn

"Women often complain bitterly about the dreaded "patriarchal society" and their oppression under it, but I cannot believe that they are completely ignorant of the vast power they actually possess in society" -- David Quinn
if they can be sure that they will be treated as individuals and judged on their merits, they will be far more open to the idea that there are some areas in life, like physics and engineering, that men are statistically better at, just as there are some areas in life that women are better at.
They never can be "sure" as if they even could have such steady views on self. And it's not a science lab or a pregnancy test!

"Women, to the degree they conform to WOMAN, need not do anything at all. They are secure and passive. They need not think, struggle, strive, and despair after this profound psychological peace." --David Quinn

"The biological females of our species embody WOMAN to a high degree, while the males are left out in the cold." -- David Quinn
As I say, men need to follow women's lead and liberate themselves from their traditional roles, from their genetic programming. As a first step, I would suggest this involves overcoming their constant need for women's approval and learning to become more independent from them.
"Man, on the other hand, is completely bereft of such a magnificent power. He must fend for himself, relying upon his wits to etch his way in the world. Thus, out of necessity, man is continually looking at the broader picture, assessing the implications of each situation, thinking out the consequences of his actions, developing a consistent philosophy, and reflecting upon what is actually true." -- David Quinn

(all quotes from Woman - An Exposition for the Advanced Mind)

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David Quinn
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Re: The social justice wars

Post by David Quinn » Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:39 am

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:
David Quinn wrote:America is entering a very dangerous period now. Trump's presidency is all but over. His sheer ineptitude and vacuousness has led him blindly into a hole from which he cannot escape. He has no choice but to go fully feral. This is not going to be pretty to watch
Nah.... David, I think you're just buying into the anxiety of the age reflecting in your daily newspapers.
Okay, let's put it to the test. The prediction I made above is a distillation of what I read in the news, combined with my understanding of Trump's psychology. Let's see if it becomes true or not.

It would be interesting to hear other people's predictions. Does anyone care to give it a go? Make a prediction about the Trump presidency and list the primary sources of your media information. We can then compare the results and see who is more in touch with reality.

My primary sources: The New York Times, Washington Post, Politico, The Guardian, Wall Street Journal

What is falling part however is what I'd call the international post-WW2 order. That's certainly the more interesting process here and the events in the USA are then only fall-out or perhaps more like a cramped, largely ineffective reaction to this process: the EU project fragmenting, Russia and China upsetting the balance, Iran re-asserting and many nations still on the brink of defaulting economically and socially. "But where danger is, grows the saving power also." --Hölderlin
I agree with much of what you are saying here, except the part about the EU fragmenting. Europeans have made it pretty clear over the past few months that they reject the far right nationalist movement. They recognize that their best way to deal with Russia and China is to stick together. So I am predicting that under the leadership of Germany and France the EU will continue to move forward as a solid, powerful bloc. As for America, I dare say that the whole Trump fiasco is not only going to decimate the Republican party, but it will push the country even further to the left.

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Dan Rowden
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Re: The social justice wars

Post by Dan Rowden » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:22 am

David Quinn wrote:Make a prediction about the Trump presidency and list the primary sources of your media information. We can then compare the results and see who is more in touch with reality.

My primary sources: The New York Times, Washington Post, Politico, The Guardian, Wall Street Journal
My primary source for media information is Twitter.

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Kevin Solway
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Re: The social justice wars

Post by Kevin Solway » Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:31 pm

David Quinn wrote:My primary sources: . . .
David, your precious media were all certain that Trump would never be elected. So much for their credibility.

However, you fail to understand why the appeal to authority is a logical fallacy. Even in the case where the supposed authority is reliable - which is not the case with the media - they can still be completely wrong. That's why it is a fallacy to appeal to authority.

Wall Street Journal
The Wall Street Journal which invested significant resources in trying to frame Pewdiepie as a nazi. Very reliable source.

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Santiago Odo
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Re: The social justice wars

Post by Santiago Odo » Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:41 pm

Well, Bannon's out. I just got off the phone. David, listen carefully: If you'll agree I can get you in as Chief Strategist to Trump. I'll give you 6 hours and if you decide yes military transport will be made available for direct flight to Washington. Put your bike in long-term storage --- the Earth's future reaches out to you through the veil of the Absolute.

If you say no, next in line: The Golden Lion.

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Re: The social justice wars

Post by JohnJAu » Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:36 pm

Kevin Solway wrote:
Wall Street Journal
The Wall Street Journal which invested significant resources in trying to frame Pewdiepie as a nazi. Very reliable source.
It's surprising to me to see that some people, such as David, still haven't realized how blatantly the media is being used to demonize people in various ways, (such as WSJ did, and this is often done without any real reasoning yet is still effective) by calling them Racists, Nazis, Misogynists, Homophobic, Transphobic, etc, in a bid to limit and censor free speech.

Most surprising to me tho is to see thousands of comments on a Charlottesville video, nearly every one supporting one side or the other of the protestors, calling out the other for wearing helmets, having sticks, having shields, bringing pepper spray, throwing rocks, etc, yet every single conditioned commentator absolutely blind to the fact (as if the color of the gear cannot be visibly detected by their eyes) that there are a thousand fully armed and armored militarized police lining the streets. Amazing!

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David Quinn
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Re: The social justice wars

Post by David Quinn » Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:41 pm

Yep, it looks like Bannon is going to go fully feral too. This could get very ugly.

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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: The social justice wars

Post by Diebert van Rhijn » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:21 pm

David Quinn wrote:
Diebert van Rhijn wrote:
David Quinn wrote:America is entering a very dangerous period now. Trump's presidency is all but over. His sheer ineptitude and vacuousness has led him blindly into a hole from which he cannot escape. He has no choice but to go fully feral. This is not going to be pretty to watch
Nah.... David, I think you're just buying into the anxiety of the age reflecting in your daily newspapers.
Okay, let's put it to the test. The prediction I made above is a distillation of what I read in the news, combined with my understanding of Trump's psychology. Let's see if it becomes true or not.
That reminds me, Dan still owes me $̶5̶0̶ 1 kangaroo for when he tried to gamble like that last time.
Make a prediction about the Trump presidency
Do you mean this is a prediction: "He has no choice but to go fully feral. This is not going to be pretty to watch". That could mean anything really. What do you interpret as "feral"? How could we decide that he is was "pretty" or not in hindsight?

My prediction is that Trump will hang on for the full four years. That's based on seeing the interests of Republican power brokers, financial institution and the ability and desire of Trump to make new deals and remake old ones without any need to be consistent. Furthermore Trump has signed on to the military command as main ally. And last but not least, the Russian conspiracy theories are falling apart and what remains of it will not be powerful enough to move anything in Washington.

All this is based on all media and analysts when common sense, logic and life experiences is added to it. But I'm also aware, like all predictions, something else entirely might happen. But I'd be really be surprised if it has anything to do with the absurd Washington Post narrative.
Europeans have made it pretty clear over the past few months that they reject the far right nationalist movement.
They are two different things: nationalist movements and the far right. But let me describe the situation for you. In center Europe we have e.g. Poland, Hungary and Ukraine where nationalism has effectively taken over. In the West the UK has been fractured and there's no majority for anything at all right now without help of ultra-right and/or anti-EU factions. In France the old establishment has been utterly destroyed during last election and the two winners were right-nationalism (first time ever) and another new populist centrist movement, which ultimately won. But that would mean more "market-based solutions to social problems" which pushed the UK ultimately away from the EU by popular uprising not long after Tony Bliar introduced the same. France is just following that route. In another sense this radical centrism is the ultimate blending machine and void of any clear vision, it's basically a rhetorical movement.

It's not about the new right winning however, it's the frictions of the widening s̶p̶i̶t̶split which will become the problem. It's not about nationalist movements getting any majority ever. It's about all the radicalizing views developing in all directions. The real power center is of course Germany but the specter of WW2 still rules and will prevent any political representation of alternative views. It's the main kernel of EU "conservatism" which is also self-interest for Germany, to remain on that course.
So I am predicting that under the leadership of Germany and France the EU will continue to move forward as a solid, powerful bloc. As for America, I dare say that the whole Trump fiasco is not only going to decimate the Republican party, but it will push the country even further to the left.
Is this prediction valid for the coming four or five years? I don't have a specific counter-prediction. Just more fragmentation, more political disconnect. The immediate future will be decided by incident or even game changers. The strong winds and currents from a change in weather will be more defining than a "course" of some weak political coalition with little principle. Most likely another market crash and some moves from China and Russia will create interesting elections to come. With the left having little answer or vision to produce, hardliners will gain more traction but the political landscape will only fraction more, creating more indecisiveness, which will be problematic in a faster moving world. The bottom line will be debt control and entering new markets, forcing more movement of people and goods in an increasing rate. But it will require more control over the increasingly restless Western population when lifestyle changes will be more or less forced.

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jupiviv
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Re: The social justice wars

Post by jupiviv » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:56 pm

David Quinn wrote:It would be interesting to hear other people's predictions. Does anyone care to give it a go? Make a prediction about the Trump presidency and list the primary sources of your media information. We can then compare the results and see who is more in touch with reality.
Here you go:
jupiviv wrote:
David Quinn wrote:I realized that behind all the buffoonery, Trump was actually very cunning and malignant.
Lol...seriously? I'm going on record - his legacy will be one of irrelevance, and may God smite me down if it turns out otherwise. Of course, it really depends what you mean by "irrelevance". Trump is absolutely correct about immigration, jobs being outsourced and some other things. But who isn't! These problems were identified by intelligent people years ago. The reason they were not fixed is because, as Trump says, the US government and other western governments are corrupt. But that isn't the only reason - at this point, they *can't* be fixed. Actually, they could never have been fixed, because the people who created them (hint - not Trump) worshiped science and technology without understanding the first thing about them.

Will Trump drain the swamp? He hasn't, judging by his cabinet picks. Will he rein in the FED? No. Will he reduce debt? He'll probably break Obongo's record of increasing it. Will he rejuvenate the economy? No. Will he implement a fascist state? It already existed, and has since people decided to let experts tend to their affairs and corporate marketing and PR do their thinking for them.

The only thing Trump is determined to do is build the Wall because it is the stone that hits two campaign promises - jobs and stopping illegal immigration. It will be as effective at stopping invasions as all of the other famous walls of history.
I was wrong about him being determined to build the anti-immigration wall, but that only reinforces my overall point. All hail King Trump the Irrelevant!

PS - the quote is about six months old.

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Kevin Solway
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Re: The social justice wars

Post by Kevin Solway » Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:15 pm

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:Just more fragmentation, more political disconnect.
I agree with this. In addition, I predict that as the left becomes increasingly insane and power-drunk, following it's current course, it will itself further fragment into countless parts. The left is censoring itself out of existence.

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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: The social justice wars

Post by Diebert van Rhijn » Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:23 pm

jupiviv wrote:I was wrong about him being determined to build the anti-immigration wall, but that only reinforces my overall point.
What do you mean? the House approved a spending bill with $1.6 billion for the border wall in 2018 and prototypes are being built as competitive bids. It's true that he'd need another 20 billion for a complete walling. So it's going to be, assuming he gets a yearly approval, around a third done? Unless he turns to IKEA!

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Santiago Odo
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Re: The social justice wars

Post by Santiago Odo » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:43 pm

Diebert! You made a joke! I am so proud of you! I imagine you snickering there in your lair and it warms my heart!

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Re: The social justice wars

Post by Santiago Odo » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:52 pm

Kevin wrote:I agree with this. In addition, I predict that as the left becomes increasingly insane and power-drunk, following it's current course, it will itself further fragment into countless parts. The left is censoring itself out of existence.
I suggest this tentatively, in fact I am not sure about it, but my understanding is that if we accept that 9/11 was an engineered social and economic engineering project, as it certainly appears to have been (though I do not understand how to see it), it seems smart to say that there is noting 'they' will not stop at to maintain control of The Present. I am unsure what the link is between the reigning Left establishment, the academic faction, the intelligence community, the industrial base, and the so-called 'Deep State', but 'they' cannot but be profoundly concerned, and also involved in, the events of the day. I would suggest that there is no intervention that stands outside of their purview.

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jupiviv
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Re: The social justice wars

Post by jupiviv » Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:07 am

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:
jupiviv wrote:I was wrong about him being determined to build the anti-immigration wall, but that only reinforces my overall point.
What do you mean? the House approved a spending bill with $1.6 billion for the border wall in 2018 and prototypes are being built as competitive bids. It's true that he'd need another 20 billion for a complete walling. So it's going to be, assuming he gets a yearly approval, around a third done? Unless he turns to IKEA!
I wonder how they will test them? In any case, Via Appia with authoritarian leftists would be my suggestion.
Santiago Odo wrote:Diebert! You made a joke! I am so proud of you! I imagine you snickering there in your lair and it warms my heart!
And what about *me*? You never seem to talk about *me* any more!

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Kevin Solway
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Re: The social justice wars

Post by Kevin Solway » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:06 pm

Dan Rowden wrote:My primary source for media information is Twitter.
The same source that the mainstream media uses.

Even then, if the source says that 2 + 2 = 4, the media will report that 2 + 2 = 5. That's what they call "informed reporting".

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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: The social justice wars

Post by Diebert van Rhijn » Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:15 am

Kevin Solway wrote: In addition, I predict that as the left becomes increasingly insane and power-drunk, following it's current course, it will itself further fragment into countless parts. The left is censoring itself out of existence.
The left does not have any unifying vision anymore. Some emerging alternatives are spotted at what's called "right" but is really "left-libertarian" or "right-liberal" if anything. But Western society has created this massive dome out of fear for instability, for another militant fascism, for underground terror groups, that right now little is allowed without immediate demonization and attack. The dome has not created any healthier climate at all. Think of the rise of Islamic or White extremism. But in general the problem is also idiocy or a liberal attitude allowing the comfortable existence of too many deeply irrational citizens.
  • "-though I must say if by any sort of process I could convert 2 & 2 into five it would give me much greater pleasure".
    -- Byron

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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: The social justice wars

Post by Diebert van Rhijn » Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:44 am

Not sure how factual this article is but could be significant in the "wars"

Google’s new search protocol is restricting access to 13 leading socialist, progressive and anti-war web sites
* wsws.org fell by 67 percent
* alternet.org fell by 63 percent
* globalresearch.ca fell by 62 percent
* consortiumnews.com fell by 47 percent
* socialistworker.org fell by 47 percent
* mediamatters.org fell by 42 percent
* commondreams.org fell by 37 percent
* internationalviewpoint.org fell by 36 percent
* democracynow.org fell by 36 percent
* wikileaks.org fell by 30 percent
* truth-out.org fell by 25 percent
* counterpunch.org fell by 21 percent
* theintercept.com fell by 19 percent
Note that usually site traffic is related to ones Google ranking in the results. And it's certainly possible that by Google's new blocking rules, many "incoming links" counts are changed and as such ranking influenced. This means links from "offensive" sites are decreased in importance and "authoritative" sites linking to you gain importance. This would make the drop in traffic as noted above certainly possible. Unintended consequences? Even if the offensive sites involved would indeed be "offense" or "fake". The process is not exactly transparent this way, for sure.

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David Quinn
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Re: The social justice wars

Post by David Quinn » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:15 am

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:
David Quinn wrote:America is entering a very dangerous period now. Trump's presidency is all but over. His sheer ineptitude and vacuousness has led him blindly into a hole from which he cannot escape. He has no choice but to go fully feral. This is not going to be pretty to watch.
That could mean anything really. What do you interpret as "feral"?
I would have thought it was pretty obvious. Trump's support from the mainstream has now completely collapsed. Up until now a sizable section of the mainstream (mainly from the Republican ranks) was still behind him, but that’s nearly all dissipated. It has become obvious to everyone in the mainstream world that Trump is too incompetent and too toxic to be an effective leader. He has no choice but to appeal to the basest elements of his support base and whip up their fears and emotions. Bannon at Breitbart will do the same. Both of them are going to ramp up their efforts to spread chaos, destabilize the nation and rile up the pitchfork brigade.

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:My prediction is that Trump will hang on for the full four years. That's based on seeing the interests of Republican power brokers, financial institution and the ability and desire of Trump to make new deals and remake old ones without any need to be consistent.
None of this is going to happen. Trump has already shown that he is too unstable, narcissistic and uneducated to provide the kind of stabilizing influence needed for coherent, sensible government. The only way the Republican power brokers will be able to get any substantial work done is by sidelining Trump and ignoring him. The chances of Trump allowing this to happen are precisely zilch.

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:Furthermore Trump has signed on to the military command as main ally. And last but not least, the Russian conspiracy theories are falling apart and what remains of it will not be powerful enough to move anything in Washington.
You really want the Russian thing to be untrue, don't you? How about we wait and see what Mueller comes up with before we preempt ourselves.

jupiviv wrote:
jupiviv wrote:I'm going on record - his legacy will be one of irrelevance, and may God smite me down if it turns out otherwise. Of course, it really depends what you mean by "irrelevance". Trump is absolutely correct about immigration, jobs being outsourced and some other things. But who isn't! These problems were identified by intelligent people years ago. The reason they were not fixed is because, as Trump says, the US government and other western governments are corrupt. But that isn't the only reason - at this point, they *can't* be fixed. Actually, they could never have been fixed, because the people who created them (hint - not Trump) worshiped science and technology without understanding the first thing about them.

Will Trump drain the swamp? He hasn't, judging by his cabinet picks. Will he rein in the FED? No. Will he reduce debt? He'll probably break Obongo's record of increasing it. Will he rejuvenate the economy? No. Will he implement a fascist state? It already existed, and has since people decided to let experts tend to their affairs and corporate marketing and PR do their thinking for them.

The only thing Trump is determined to do is build the Wall because it is the stone that hits two campaign promises - jobs and stopping illegal immigration. It will be as effective at stopping invasions as all of the other famous walls of history.
I was wrong about him being determined to build the anti-immigration wall, but that only reinforces my overall point. All hail King Trump the Irrelevant!

PS - the quote is about six months old.
If you mean that Trump will happily allow himself to become a lame duck president, that is not going to happen either. His ego simply wouldn’t stand for it. In my view, he is going to have to try to take over the country by force, otherwise his presidency is going to crash and burn. He has become a laughing stock to the mainstream. He has made too many enemies. Mueller is circling. He is on the brink of utter humiliation. What does a raving, snarling animal do when cornered? It doesn't lie down and go quiet, that's for sure.

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David Quinn
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Re: The social justice wars

Post by David Quinn » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:41 am

I want to zero in and focus on something Kevin said a couple of days ago:
Kevin Solway wrote:
David Quinn wrote:If the Republicans had their way, they would be installing fundamentalist Christianity across the length and breadth of the land
We would have to cross that bridge when we come to it. For now, we have to tackle the problems that are immediately confronting us.
Can you clarify what you mean by this?

You are creating the impression that you have become part of an extreme revolutionary movement that seeks the destruction of the liberal establishment - not just the fringe groups in the extreme left, but the entire structure which forms the basis of modern society. Is that correct? Are you at war with modern society itself? Are you saying that you would prefer to see things return to the Middle Ages rather than continue in the current manner?

The last time Western civilization was in the grip of fundamentalist Christianity (i.e. Europe in the Middle Ages), it took centuries for us to climb out of that particular hole. Anyone who tried to promote rationality within the culture was quickly persecuted. Galileo was ex-communicated; Bruno was burnt at the stake; Darwin, Nietzsche and Kierkegaard were mocked and vilified by the Christian establishment. Indeed, the whole edifice that we call modern Western civilization was created by many brilliant men who sacrificed themselves for the sake of truth and greater rationality. Are you wanting to dismantle what they have built?

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Re: The social justice wars

Post by David Quinn » Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:32 am

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:
David Quinn wrote:Yes, but hostility is at the root of it all.
Ignorance is, of course, what's really at the root.
Because old school white males have a long history of treating women and minority groups like shit.
"It was the males who formed a buffer between the females and the dangerous world outside. It was their role to deal with the life threatening situations that regularly cropped up. So while men evolved the necessary courage and strength to succeed in this role, the females were left free to develop the delicate charms of femininity." -- David Quinn

"Women often complain bitterly about the dreaded "patriarchal society" and their oppression under it, but I cannot believe that they are completely ignorant of the vast power they actually possess in society" -- David Quinn

if they can be sure that they will be treated as individuals and judged on their merits, they will be far more open to the idea that there are some areas in life, like physics and engineering, that men are statistically better at, just as there are some areas in life that women are better at.
They never can be "sure" as if they even could have such steady views on self. And it's not a science lab or a pregnancy test!

"Women, to the degree they conform to WOMAN, need not do anything at all. They are secure and passive. They need not think, struggle, strive, and despair after this profound psychological peace." --David Quinn

"The biological females of our species embody WOMAN to a high degree, while the males are left out in the cold." -- David Quinn
As I say, men need to follow women's lead and liberate themselves from their traditional roles, from their genetic programming. As a first step, I would suggest this involves overcoming their constant need for women's approval and learning to become more independent from them.
"Man, on the other hand, is completely bereft of such a magnificent power. He must fend for himself, relying upon his wits to etch his way in the world. Thus, out of necessity, man is continually looking at the broader picture, assessing the implications of each situation, thinking out the consequences of his actions, developing a consistent philosophy, and reflecting upon what is actually true." -- David Quinn

(all quotes from Woman - An Exposition for the Advanced Mind)
These quotes all back up what I have been saying recently. You cannot treat women as though they were men and expect any kind of coherent response. Women have evolved to be changeable, herd-like and consumed by anxiety. This means that if you want them to come around to your way of thinking, you have to guide and reassure them along every step of the way. Otherwise, you just spook them. As the anti-SJW crowd are finding out, trying to bully women into submission is not going to work any more.

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