My Mundane Life

[DHodges]

Well, she’s gone.

She packed up her truck, her dad’s truck, and a trailer, and hauled her shit out of here, leaving Friday around 6 pm.

Well, she took most of it. I had told her she needed to rent a real truck, and tow hers behind it. But no, she thought she had enough room, and renting a truck would be another two thousand dollars, which she didn’t have.

So she left a bunch of shit behind; but off they went, on a three days’ journey from Philadelphia, PA to Houston, TX: her, her dad, her son, and a friend who was helping with the driving and unloading; her bird, her cat, her dog, one ferret and the son’s snake.

By Saturday afternoon, the house was cleaner than it’s been in a year - funny how that works. There was a very large pile for the garbage men on Monday. And yet the cleaning up has just begun. With her gone, I feel free to get rid of other stuff, as well. There is a nearby thrift store where I can drop stuff off, get it out of my life, and help a charity, at the same time.

First to go will be the stuffed animals. Why she thought I needed or wanted stuffed animals is a bit of mystery (well, no, not really, it isn’t). But you have to accept them with good graces when they are given to you, don’t you? Anyway, they can go now: the iguana the sings “Iguana be loved by you;” the purple monkey that plays guitar; and all the rest.

She called up yesterday to say she misses me and loves me. I was slightly dumbfounded at first – but what the hell, it doesn’t mean any less now than it did a month ago, or six. I guess habits take a while to die. It was only three or four months ago that she was saying things like, “I want to grow old with you,” and “No one could ever take me away from you.”


The house seems quiet. Well, it is quiet. Most of the TVs are gone, and the remaining one can actually be turned off and it will stay off. There is no thirteen year old boy obsessed with cartoons and video games. The bird is gone; no whistling and calls of “hello?” every time I leave the living room.

Positive or negative, I know that events like this can trigger an episode of depression, and I’m watching for that. There have already been signs of it; I’ve already adjusted my meds a bit. But there is no sense of an emotional reaction; it’s just a chemical reaction.
And there’s no sense of acting out of free will. This is what happened, what is happening. There is no sense that it could have been, or could be, any different. It is what it is.

I know that I have been very unproductive at work. My boss cuts me quite a bit of slack, but he’s starting to get annoyed. I have to either get some work done, or at least explain to him what’s going on.

In one way, I see her leaving as the physical manifestation of an attachment dropping away. The attachment to the woman dropped away long ago, and so – even though everything seemed fine on the surface – eventually she went away. “The relationship” had died – but not for the usual reasons relationships died; nothing bad happened. I just stopped playing; I’m not interested in that game any more. But there is naturally some pain that goes along with the change; it’s necessary.

But in another way, I am worried that my lack of emotional involvement is not a healthy detachment, but is symptomatic of depression, and needs to be dealt with. I hesitate to discuss it with my doctor, because I know how he will interpret it. He thinks emotional involvement is a good thing, that it’s what makes life worth living.

At the same time, knowing that she is gone is liberating. I can throw out all those stuffed animals. I know that I’m not just done with her. I’m done with romance, done with love. I knew the day would come. I knew it two or three years ago.

[Leyla Shen]

DHodges,

I just stopped playing; I’m not interested in that game any more. But there is naturally some pain that goes along with the change; it’s necessary.

Necessary for what?

[MKFaizi]

I don't think it is necessary but it is probably inevitable. Sounds like you learned a lot.

But what do you think you will do if another attractive woman comes along? Could you possibly want more stuffed animals and crap?

You are too polite, Dave. To me, stuffed animals are the epitome of clutter. I could not have accepted those things. I have grown to love empty space.

I like freedom far more than I could ever like a man. I reckon I am married to freedom. Best damn relationship in the world. No obligations. Never a need to compromise. No unwanted gifts.

I like humanoids but I like 'em from a distance. The more distance, the better.

Faizi

[MKFaizi]

I do think that you knew it two or three years ago. You just had to push it one more time -- even though you knew that you were not willing to marry when this girl, plainly, was the marrying kind.

When you grieve over this loss of attachment, I think that you will grieve over the attachment to emotional attachment rather than attachment to this one woman. I don't think this woman meant much to you. I always had the feeling that she was symbolic of your last attachment to Woman --love, commitment, silliness, materialism to the ridiculous.

Likely, you will miss the teenager most of all.

I had a terrible teenage episode last night. Kind of horrific. My theory is that it had a lot to do with crank. Been a year or two since I had seen that.

He cut his wrists and dipped his fingers in the blood. Painted his face in blood and said he was going to kill me and my daughter. Rock does not do drugs anymore. She got over it.

I left the ghetto to get out of the ghetto. Astonishes me that I live in Christianity, Virginia and I have to deal with crank. We'd be better off in the ghetto.

Faizi

[sevens]

<MKF,

Ever look up Del The Funky Homosapien

Both Sides of The Brain : Machine Gun, Garden Green.

[Jamesh]

I know that I have been very unproductive at work. My boss cuts me quite a bit of slack, but he’s starting to get annoyed. I have to either get some work done, or at least explain to him what’s going on.

Well whatever you do, don't let your self discipline slip too far because boredom creates a need to experience emotion.

[Matt Gregory]

I would think it's the other way around: the need to experience emotion creating boredom.

You'll probably be bored for awhile, Dave, having less distractions around. Don't let that depress you, though. Think of it as a growing pain.

[Leyla Shen]

Boredom is an emotion.

It's the feeling (complete with mental and physical manifestations) that there is nothing exciting to do.

[DHodges]

I am not bored. I am slightly depressed, but also a bit exhilarated. The Prozac does not allow me to be too much of either.

But what do you think you will do if another attractive woman comes along? Could you possibly want more stuffed animals and crap?

No, I don't want that. But I know that rationality has a way of hiding at times, being overpowered by a rush of hormones. That's why I'm thrashing it out now. I know attractive women will come along. I know that I could convince myself that it would be different. I know that there is no one around me that would discourage it.

Already there are women around the office that are getting a bit flirty.

You are too polite, Dave.

Yes, I know it. Too polite, sometimes, to say the truth, when it will hurt. It is a weakness, and it is a weakness that is easily exploited by women. Women have a way of putting me into a situation where I either have to get involved with them in some way, or be rude to them. (To a woman, being ignored when you want attention is quite rude; it's an insult.)

[DHodges]

Necessary for what?

Necessary as part of the process. Kind of like going to the dentist to have a bad tooth pulled. You know it's going to hurt some, but you know that the pain is minor compared to not having the tooth pulled. The pain is no big deal, and is passing already.

[Dan Rowden]

Are you into S&M David?

[DHodges]

Are you into S&M David?

I'm not sure where that's coming from... but no. I messed around with some bondage and such back in college days, but that's it.

[sevens]

David,

Pink Floyd.

Comments please, kind sir.

[David Quinn]

The stuffed animals phenomenon is an interesting one. One often comes across women who surround themselves with this sort of paraphernalia. It is as though these women are deliberately advertizing the fact that they are living in a fantasy and have no connection to reality at all.

It reminds me of religion, which follows a similar principle. The more wacky, crazy and fantastical a religion can make itself out to be, the more followers it will invariably attract. In effect, the religion is saying, "If you want to completely sever ties with reality, then we are the group for you."

People aren't interested in a religion which tries to mirror reality in an approximate sense. That would only serve to bring rationality into the proceedings, which would soon be the death of the religion. We can see this happening with mainstream Christianity, which, having embraced science and evolution, is slowly dying out, particularly in the educated classes.

Similarly, a lot of men don't want women who are too closely associated with reality. What they want is a lovely dreamworld they can enter into on a regular basis. Women and religion fulfil very similar roles.

-

[Leyla Shen]

Necessary for what?

Necessary as part of the process. Kind of like going to the dentist to have a bad tooth pulled. You know it's going to hurt some, but you know that the pain is minor compared to not having the tooth pulled. The pain is no big deal, and is passing already.

So, facing the necessary pain associated with changing from the state of having a woman to not having a woman is the same as facing the pain associated with the change of having a bad tooth and not having a bad tooth. But, since she was the one that went to the dentist, and not you, aren't we speaking of a different pain? That is, the pain of the toothache itself?

What is that pain necessary for?

Are you meant to simply have the tooth pulled, figure out why it decayed in the first place, let the dentist tell you exactly what should be done, or become a dentist?

In the experience of pain (and pleasure) lies the full potential of fear.

Dan asks you that, I reckon, because SM & bondage is the severest reflection of a mind trapped in pain and pleasure.

Why is pain a necessary part of the change associated with breaking up with a girlfriend?

Maybe it means you just need to practise better relationship hygiene, or diet?

[MKFaizi]

I don't think Dan is talking about the usual S&M bondage bullshit. He is talking about a regular relationship. The possibility that, even though you know full well the bullshit you would be getting yourself into -- "it will be better/different this time" -- you might still be willing to do it.

I understand the sex drive. It's pretty strong but it does get to the point that the thought of being close to another person is kind of repulsive -- especially a person who is your inferior. I don't mean that in a snobbish way. But are you masochist enough that you could want another woman giving you stuffed animals and thinking you are cute and whatnot?

Could you really want to be thought of as cute? Other than the sex drive, when you look at the women flirting with you in the office -- really look at them -- can you really say you find them attractive? Can you yet find someone attractive who wants to own you in some way -- even if it entails nothing more than a one night stand?

I am a lot older than you but I still find men attractive sexually. I don't go out anywhere so I don't see that many. But, when I consider the oppression, it's a real turn off. When I consider the concessions I would have to make to have a relationship -- even a platonic one -- they don't look so good.

Here is what I tell men when they occasionally flirt with me: "I like men. Just not enough to let one ruin my life. Not enough to allow one in my yard or in my house."

That kind of puts a damper on things. Some of them see it as a challenge of some sort but that does not effect me in the least. I am not playing. I mean it and they do get the picture -- straight up.

It's a little blunt but it is not rude. I think flirting is rude. Especially in your circumstances. The bitches know the 'ho has left the crib so they want to move in. That's sick.

What am I supposed to do? Flirt back? I find the whole idea repulsive.

Those flirty women are vultures. If you do find that you are masochist enough to enter into another relationship, at least, give yourself some time to be alone.

It is not rude to refrain from flirtation. It is not rude to want to stay to yourself.

It is well known that when a man is widowed, women pounce on him like vultures on a 'possum. Don't matter if the man is eighty. They still move in for the kill.

Resist, for God's sake. Get some backbone.

Get yourself together at work. That is a must. Work is like being on stage or being in the Mafia. You have to fully compartmentalize business from personal.

Think anyone at my work knows that a crank-head threatened to kill myself and my daughter the other night? No way. None of their business. None of my business to impose my problems on my peers or my bosses. If I have a heart attack, even, I want it to be a private affair. Work is separate from my life. My life has nothing to do with work. My productivity has nothing to do with my private life.

Be a man.

Who told the flirty office that the girl left?

It is none of their business. They are a flock of crows.

So the woman left and called you and told you that she misses you and loves you. Pretty crazy. My guess is that she will get over it pretty quickly.

You need to get over it quickly, too.

Presently, I think you are pretty vulnerable to sadists.

Faizi

[DHodges]

I don't think Dan is talking about the usual S&M bondage bullshit. He is talking about a regular relationship.

I agree that there is generally some of that in male-female relationships (actually, all relationships). I would refer to as Dominance and Subnission (D/s) rather than S&M.

In general I've tried to have equality in my relationships, and avoid the whole D/s thing. But a lack of wanting to be dominant is generally taken as a desire to be submissive; it's so pervasive that it's just assumed. You must be one or the other.

In this just past relationship, I did not strive for equality, but rather for complementarity. She did the things she was good at, I did my stuff, and it seemed to work out pretty well... but even so, she seemed to interpret my leaving certain things to her as helplessness, an inability to do those things. I think she actually felt guilty about moving out - it will be awfully hard for me to figure out how to pay bills, no doubt.

The possibility that, even though you know full well the bullshit you would be getting yourself into -- "it will be better/different this time" -- you might still be willing to do it.

That is why I am discussing it here.

[DHodges]

So the woman left and called you and told you that she misses you and loves you. Pretty crazy. My guess is that she will get over it pretty quickly.

You need to get over it quickly, too.

All right, so I'm over it... but there's always a little more to the story, isn't there?

I mentioned that her dad came down from Michigan to help her move. He helped haul furniture down the stairs, and he drove down to Texas, and then back up to Michigan again.

Strong old guy. Seemed healthy as an ox. Couldn't get him to take a break, when we were moving furniture. We got along great. He died December 23, apparently of a heart attack.

So what?

The old man's death "put some things into perspective" and... you can just tell what's coming next, can't you? Shit.

Blows my mind that people need to have things put into perspective. Every once in a while, the head is dragged up out of the everyday pretending and delusion - by some brute fact that can't be ignored. Just seems like a flat-up admission - yes, I spend my life deep in a deluded state, I like it there, that whole "reality" thing sucks ass, it sucks but every once in a while you can't ignore it.

So it goes.

[AryReisin]

The possibility that, even though you know full well the bullshit you would be getting yourself into -- "it will be better/different this time" -- you might still be willing to do it.

That is why I am discussing it here.

I think exposure is a very important word in life. Exposure to things means one may be tempted by this, by that. Not only tempted, also impregned, etc.
What I mean is, there is the willing to try a new different relationship, cuz it may look promising, tempting. However if you examine how comprehensive, and capable that person is of understanding herself and yourself, and if she has the same goals or objectives than you, you may find that in the long long term it's not a good idea. Even if she were perfect for you, she could die from an accident. I mean, there is no security about permanence. So it is contradictory to bet at something that is not permanent, wanting it to last forever. Even if it lasts the rest of your life, you have to ask yourself if happiness in the form of pleasure, love, (the egotistical love of a relationship) is what you really want in life.
I think (just speculating) that the thing is, if you don't really care much about it, you enjoy it's pleasures, but you don't need it, then the act of getting used to not doing it anymore would get yourself further and further away from it.
One example is with food. I stopped eating meat since 1 year now, because I didn't eat it very often, and didn't have such a great attachment to it. I really enjoyed it, but I just dropped it. I surely have found myself tempted by it, but once you don't do something anymore, and time goes passing by, the possibility of doing goes diminishing. I don't think it's as easy as that with relationships, maybe some of those who have been alone can talk about it.
I for one am in a relationship where I love my girlfriend, but I know she is very fragile and the relationship could end anytime... I know it, but it doesn't affect me (my previous relationship did). Because I remember I AM ALONE. Because I remember, I ALONE AM. In my case it is like, I still have attachments, look for pleasure, happiness in things, but I plan on freeing myself from them eventually, since I can't do it all now. I love music, my "greatest" passion, and I love my girlfriend, I also enjoy movies, food, etc. But my objective in life is not to be happy, in the sense of tasting pleasures and feeling secure. But rather Freedom, freedom from suffering, and to discover and live in Truth.

Just shared my thoughts, hope you can relate to some. Wish you well, Ary.

[DHodges]

I think (just speculating) that the thing is, if you don't really care much about it, you enjoy it's pleasures, but you don't need it, then the act of getting used to not doing it anymore would get yourself further and further away from it.

Yes, that sounds about right.

I for one am in a relationship where I love my girlfriend, but I know she is very fragile and the relationship could end anytime... I know it, but it doesn't affect me (my previous relationship did).

I stopped being affected by the relationship. Maybe that's why it ended. There's just not much point to a relationship if you are indifferent to it.

[AryReisin]

I stopped being affected by the relationship. Maybe that's why it ended. There's just not much point to a relationship if you are indifferent to it.

In my case I'm certainly not indifferent, I'm highly feminine (in the sense of loving, romantic love, etc.). But I don't bet my security or happiness on her. I simple am happy and very very tranquil while being with her, and plan to be with her the rest of my life. If she were to leave me, I am pretty sure I won't be trying another relationship. It is not about sadness or failure, just not interested in keep developing something that won't led me to freedom. However if I were to form a family with her that wouldn't mean I won't become free.

[David Quinn]

How many men have been fooled by that little dream, I wonder? At least 75% of the male population in history, one would have to think.

As I have said, it is through woman that ideality is born into the world and -- what were man without her! There is many a man who has become a genius through a woman, many a one a hero, many a one a poet, many a one even a saint; but he did not become a genius through the woman he married, for through her he only became a privy councillor; he did not become a hero through the woman he married, for through her he only became a general; he did not become a poet through the woman he married, for through her he only became a father; he did not become a saint through the woman he married, for he did not marry, and would have married but one -- the one whom he did not marry; just as the others became a genius, became a hero, became a poet through the help of the woman they did not marry.

The Banquet, by Soren Kierkegaard

-

[AryReisin]

How many men have been fooled by that little dream, I wonder? At least 75% of the male population in history, one would have to think.
-

Including you?
Having family doesn't prevent one from Enlightenment. Nisargadatta had a family and he was certainly Enlightened to me. Most of the others no, that I agree.
I don't plan on having a family, I don't plan on having kids. But if that were to happen, I don't think I would leave them and escape from my responsability of taking care of them. However certain responsabilities like the above mentioned, imply a commitment. So, I don't really plan on committing myself to that (even if that means experiencing the joys of family, the happiness of having children etc.).

You yourself have been with many women and even sired a son, that's what I had read in some page that you wrote. Even if you didn't form a family (I am just assuming), did you take responsability for your son, did you just leave him, or wasn't it needed your presence, both financially and emotionally?

[sue hindmarsh]

AryReisin wrote:

But I don't bet my security or happiness on her. I simple am happy and very very tranquil while being with her, and plan to be with her the rest of my life.

Ary, it sounds like you do, “… bet (your) security (and) happiness on her.” Most people use others for exactly the same reasons.

If she were to leave me, I am pretty sure I won't be trying another relationship. It is not about sadness or failure, just not interested in keep developing something that won't led me to freedom.

But you are prepared to stay with your current girlfriend – because she understands and is helping you achieve “freedom”? Whereas, another woman would not understand, nor help you achieve your aim?

Does your current girlfriend also want “freedom”, and if so, are you assisting her towards that goal? How?

However if I were to form a family with her that wouldn't mean I won't become free.

If you mean by “freedom”: a life free from all falsity – how does having a ‘wife and kids’ fit into that ideal?

Sue

[AryReisin]

Ary, it sounds like you do, “… bet (your) security (and) happiness on her.” Most people use others for exactly the same reasons.

You didn't get what I was saying. I also love music, my probably "greatest" passion. I also enjoy movies, food, etc. That doesn't mean I am thinking about those things all the time, that I take refuge in them. You see, having attachments and passions is one thing, but that doesn't mean one isn't conscious they will go, and that they will not give one Freedom, but the contrary. Still, this doesn't mean one has to stop doing the things one does and isolate oneself, attachment is to be observed and understood. One thing is to already have attachments and planning to achieve freedom, and another thing is to plan on keep developing attachments and not interested in freedom.

But you are prepared to stay with your current girlfriend – because she understands and is helping you achieve “freedom”? Whereas, another woman would not understand, nor help you achieve your aim?

Where did you get that from? Really, interpreting that much isn't gonna let you understand what people communicate. I never said she understands herself or me and that she would help me in achieving freedom. I don't depend nor look a help of a woman for that. However that doesn't mean she will be an obstacle. Music isn't guilty of me loving it, it is ME who is attached to it, and forcing onself to dettach from things isn't an intelligent idea. Or you believe that if you go to the jungle you will instantly dettach from all things? ...

Does your current girlfriend also want “freedom”, and if so, are you assisting her towards that goal? How?

She wants happiness, not freedom, but that could change with time. I am not assisting her into freedom, I share my views and goals with her, and she respects them. I think that if we were more time together I could get her to think and experience more of Awareness, and maybe she could think about Freedom more seriously. I am not with her to convert her to something or to free her from suffering.

If you mean by “freedom”: a life free from all falsity – how does having a ‘wife and kids’ fit into that ideal?

Sue

You surely think that your life "style" or what you do necessarily shows what you are... so wrong...
Having a wife isn't false... Having kids isn't false. What is false is delusion, and delusion is or is not in your experience of everything, not in those things you experience. Delusion is not in the plastic snake, but in the belief of being a real snake, and therefore being afraid.

In my view, if one is in the necessary condition, one can meditate, observe, be conscious of everything, while doing whatever it is one is doing. Also, whatever the body does, isn't what one IS. Awareness isn't male or female, so what the body-person happens to experience is not affecting Awareness. However depending on how conscious of Awareness that person is, his experience will be limited or not.
As I said, the fact that one has attachments and problems, doesn't mean one doesn't care or plans on keep developing them forever.