hawking vs aquinas: genius contra genius

[zarathustra]

it's interesting how genius in philosophy can go in different directions and arrive at different conclusions, which makes folly of the popular new-age pop-philosophy ( all genius points to the one manifest truth ). take for example the work of stephen hawking and thomas aquinas....hawking believed that the universe self-originated through a quantum fluxuation from a state of absolute nothing some 15 billion years ago ( black holes and baby universes ) in other words a big bang singularity in real time. however, with the application of the universe of a quantum description using imaginary time, the time dimension becomes a dimension of space and there is no boundary or edge to the universe in the resultant four-dimensional euclidean space-time. in this space-time there would be no break down of the laws of physics, and the universe would substantially evolve in real time as something perfectly self-sufficent, totally self-sustaining, it would as hawking said 'just be...'

on the other hand, aquinas' universe rests on a single source of existence what he calls 'unum essendi principium' ceaselessly sustained 'in esse' by a transcendent first cause. since the existence of the universe is in no sense necessary, aquinas interprets its creation as an expression of the divine will (god) for the universe in general and human beings in particular - the observing and reflecting parts of it. A concept of providence, thus coming to play. he believed the universe to have been created ex nihilo i.e. with absolutely nothing preceding it out of which it was made. Time did not exist prior to the universe but began with it.can both these geniuses be right? obviously not. so then, its logical to conclude that fucking geniuses can be dead wrong, but very eloquently and convincingly so...so much for common origins and all that fluffy stuff toast and sevens bawk about, which I suspect they lifted from a depak chopra book...




written by lightening for your edification

[DHodges]

it's interesting how genius in philosophy can go in different directions and arrive at different conclusions, which makes folly of the popular new-age pop-philosophy ( all genius points to the one manifest truth ). take for example the work of stephen hawking and thomas aquinas....

Hawking is not a philosopher per se, he is a physicist. Aquinas was not so much a philosopher (as I see him) as a theologian and a Christian apologist.

its logical to conclude that fucking geniuses can be dead wrong, but very eloquently and convincingly so...

Depending on who you count as a genius, yes. If you count anyone who is very intelligent, knowledgable and talented, then Roger Penrose might be a good example. He is very, very wrong.

[sevens]

Zara,

Stole my conception of the conception from an illustration on a black board. You just provided me with an interesting parallel -- Hawking's theory greatly resembles my own. In fact, his theory on virtual particles (revealed to me by one of my professors) falls inline with my 'unification conception' as well. Zara, all of what I pass along here, are observations that I've experienced. Don't make the mistake of letting the language, or bubbly sunshine, twist their meaning. Yeah, I can be a bit arrogant - and yeah, I can scream for praise (workin' on that one). Really though, I enjoy the discipline, and motivation that posting here brings to my daily existence.

You enjoy poetry, and physics, right? -- the mode of mind that brings enlightenment is their combination.

[zarathustra]

mr hodges now I understand why you wear those sun glasses: they keep the light out of your eyes and prevent you from seeing clearly.believe me, both men are philosophers, the
fact that one is a physicist and the other a theologian is irrelevant. As a physicist myself, and one who has extensively studied both, I'm curious to know why you dismiss their life's work - particularly aquinas - with the use of a hackneyed journalistic phrase 'christian apologist' when I suspect you do not possess a cockroach's familiarity when it comes to understanding and 'appreciating' the grace and beauty of their concepts and arguments....personally, I do not agree with either, but I respect what they have done, their vision, their insight....against those two qualities alone mr hodges, you are indeed a dwarf, nay, a speck...



written by lightening for your edification

[zarathustra]

at last, sevens, we have found a little common ground....



written by lightening for your edification

[zarathustra]

addendum>>>>oh yeah, mr hodgepoge, I think it was your mentor freddy nietzsche who had something to say about geniuses, in 'twilight of the idols' or was it 'the genealogy of morals'....anyway, he spoke of the 'evil' genius....the myth perpetuated in this forum that genius is somehow synonymous with moral masturbation, purity, bla, bla, bla, is not only false, but disproven by no less than the whole of human history, which is literally a-buzzz with them....no doubt you can think of one or two.


written for your edification by lightening

[David Quinn]

zarathustra wrote:

mr hodges now I understand why you wear those sun glasses: they keep the light out of your eyes and prevent you from seeing clearly.believe me, both men are philosophers, the
fact that one is a physicist and the other a theologian is irrelevant.

No, it's actually very relevant. Both men locked themselves into a limited mentality - Aquinus into the Christian mentality, Hawking into scientific/materialistic one. When this happens, it doesn't matter how extraordinary your intellect is, your philosophic conclusions will always be limited in scope. This is not genius.

A person only begins to be a genius when he abandons all attachments and limited mentalities, pushes his reasoning powers to the very limit and succeeds in comprehending the nature of reality. Neither Hawking, nor Aquinus did this. But there have been quite a few other men who have - e.g. Lao Tzu, Diogenes, Huang Po, Chuang Tzu, Buddha, Hakuin, Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, etc. These are the true geniuses of history.

Interestingly, despite the fact these geniuses came from different eras and cultures, they all experienced the same freedom of mind (as a result of their rationality and lack of attachments) and understood the same basic truths of life. Great geniuses are always in perfect agreement when it comes to the fundamentals.

You're evidently trying to cause a stir here, but unfortunately your understanding of this forum is extremely poor. Every criticism you have made thus far has been infinitely wide of the mark. This probably explains why very few people are responding to you. You sound like a dog barking in the distance, nothing more.

If you want to engage us properly, then take the time to understand what is happening here. Otherwise, what you're doing is a waste of time.

-

[Foresta Gump]

Zarathustra,

I respect your wit, intellect, humor, your half of cup of wisdom, and your honesty! You've still a half a cup to go! Keep that in mind! And I'm not trying to kiss anybody's ass, I tell it like it is! The way I see it! Its not praise, its truth.

Genius is not about how much knowledge you have, its about what you do with that knowledge. Its about whether your ideas can benefit anyone or not. Genius is an odd-ball, it bounces differently than the hard ball, or the soft ball. Genius can be found in a janitor. Remember Genius is human with a high I.Q and mensa thinking, but, not necessarily educated. Tests don't measure genius, they only cater to the ability to solve them, as I've said before.

I read what people are saying, but, in my position I can't much comment though, nobody cares what I have to say, so I don't much talk to people here anymore. I basically just write for the experience and love of it. Others should be happy now that I've come to the realization of this. Their doing! People are so mean-spirited, ignor people because they are a layman, how genius is that really.

People won't give me credibility here because I don't have a degree, see, a piece of paper stands in my way, its an obstacle that can be knocked the fuck down, and when I do get a degree look out, because I'm just a little bit dangerous.
I'll make people look like their heads are up their asses smelling their own shit.

However, I really shouldn't be complaining, Dan gave me a poetry thread which is something I'm happy with. The determined girl came to the door and knocked until the door was opened, then she walked in. " Knock and the door shall be opened onto you" thats a Bible quote! I bet people here don't know squat about the Bible's contents.

Thanks for being honest zarathustra.

I dally in mensa quizzies as well, some are so easy for me, and some are not so easy.

Zarathustra, see if you can find the word Autodidact, I'll give you one good hint, its in the 1911 or 13 Webster's Dictionary
You're so smart you probably already know what didactic means. Anyway, I'm equated with the meaning.

Once again, Honesty sits high up on the pedestal along with respect, and they are both genius attribrutes

Take Care

[David Quinn]

Foresta wrote:

People won't give me credibility here because I don't have a degree, see, a piece of paper stands in my way, its an obstacle that can be knocked the fuck down, and when I do get a degree look out, because I'm just a little bit dangerous.

I assure you this is not the reason why you don't have much credibility here.

I personally think that you don't belong on this forum and should seriously consider going some place else. You're a sweet person, but you're not a philosopher and you don't really have a connection to the ideals and values of this forum. This normally wouldn't be a problem - after all, there are other people here who also fit this description - but unlike them, you tend to swamp the forum with too many irrelevant posts.

I don't like the way you are using this forum to make noise and seek attention. This is not what this forum is about. So I beg you, Donna, please do it somewhere else.

--

[Foresta Gump]

I don't personally care what you think David, how dare you talk to me that way. I belong anywhere I take myself and I ain't going anywhere! Except down in history!

So I gotcha begging do I, good, because only a genius could!

I'm not an educated philosopher but I am a philosopher, and have always known it. So your view does not count with me.

Well, David, I'm disappointed in you, you retaliated against my questionaire and my person, showing your less than perfect sage image I deludedly had first thought of you.

Thats why you want me out of here isn't it David, because I challenged you in those questions I asked you. Well, I'm truly sorry for doing that to you and I apologize, I knew I was deliberately being an Asshole. I have more respect than I've shown, I'm sorry. Please forgive me.

You're starting to feel the pressure of the Uniiversity Jerks coming down hard on you, well, I won't let you take it out on me David!

I'm staying here! I have as much right to talk as you do.

I could be more connected philosophically if I allowed myself to be, but I've got myself all caught up in the Brothel. However, for your information David, I've read most of the philosophical subjects on the Genius Forum and in the Brothel!

I'm not leaving Foresta Gumps Contemplations, so I'll behave myself I promise. I'll quit the ramblings, and leave them to my own thread. Now I understand why Dan assigned me my own area, to keep me there.

Why do I get treated like I'm an insufferable bore, I should treat you people like that because alot of you are insufferable bore's to me. I'm not boring am I? I'm interesting aren't I?

You know what David, my intuition told me not to write about how people don't consider me here. But I didn't listen and thats when you jumped on me.

People always use me as their scapegoat, here on the forum.
I've only once been talked down to by a man in my whole life and that was Rhett, and then Dan. Men feel threatened around an intelligent woman.

You guys see only what I seem to be like

If people want my respect than I had better get some too!

If any of you people met me in real life I'd be liked more.

Like I said I'll knock it off, and behave myself accordingly, I appologize that you had to speak to me David.

Donna Thompson

[Foresta Gump]

I see whats happening here, it seems as soon as I encourage someone like zarathustra who everyone feels intimidated by, I get the boot. You can't handle a man of his intellect, I can!

If anyone pisses on me again, I'll shit on you!

[David Quinn]

I'm sorry, Donna, but if you don't leave volunatarily, I will have to use my moderation powers to remove you by force. I'd rather not do that, but I will do it if necessary.

Again, it's nothing personal. It's just that you don't belong to a forum that seeks to promote rationality and coherency of thought. You're welcome to stay and lurk, of course, but you're no longer welcome to take over half the forum with your dotty ramblings.

-

[Foresta Gump]

All you promote here is anger and hatred. I see a bunch of educated children fighting for leadway.

All you are is educated, nothing more. You cannot see at the height I can. My abilities tower over most people, you fear me don't you Quinn. You can't bare my honesty, or my intellect.

You fear Zarathustra's intellect, that you are using me as your escape goat David Quinn. Zarathustra may me smart, but he's also young and has a ways to go.

Do you consider yourself to be genius-minded? Yes or No Quinn? You hate me for asking you this don't you Quinn? Because it forces you to answer, and you can't answer this question. Your next step will be to get rid of me as fast as you can, because I intimidate you. Prove me wrong Quinn.

You see Quinn, I fear no one! Thats the difference between you and I. No one can intimidate me! So who's smarter you or me? Thats always been a problem, being smarter than everyone else. It bothers the educated the most.

You know damn well you can't stop me from talking on this forum. I will just come back under another name and haunt you tenfold. I'll be your worst nightmare, if you continue to disrespect me.

And quit insulting my intelligence by telling me this is nothing personal, you lie when you say this. We both know what ails you.

I'm not going anywhere voluntarily, I have as much right to talk as you do. You kick people off who you fear, the ones who stand up to you and express their thoughts. It seems you have a difficult time persuading opposition to see things your way, so you get rid of people who threaten you.

Why don't you be fair and ask everyone on the forum if they want me to leave. If at least one person is on my side, I stay!
Why not figure out a win win situation for all, wouldn't that be more a genius minded thing to do? I tried to negotiate a fair deal with you in my last post, I said that I would stay in my own area Foresta Gumps Contemplations, why did you rebuke this thought David?

Why should I leave Foresta Gumps Contemplations, thats my area. Now Fuck off and leave me to my own demise.

[Foresta Gump]

It bugs you that I have influence over people, and all I have for education is a little college.

[Macho]

This Dumb fuck thinks he can ban me from this forum, sure you can ban the name Macho but I can just keep coming back under a different name. I'll show you what disrespect is all about, you Goddam Bastard. Does banning me give you the power you so crave David? Otherwise you're just another fucking powerless prick, who thinks he's genius but to much of a coward to say so.

Don't underestimate my genius you insignificant Fuck Head.

You haven't got one bit of couth, or what it takes to be genius.

I was the only one on this forum who is the true Genius.

You lose Quinn, just try and stop me, I am unstoppable

I'm going to be your worst nightmare! You asked for it!

[David Quinn]

Donna,

You are merely confirming, with this behaviour, why you you were asked to leave in the first place. This behaviour has no place on a philosophic forum. Please leave, before you embarrass yourself further.

-

[Ras866]

HaHa... This is hilarious.

Ms. Thomson has a great and unique character, indeed.

How old is Ms. Donna Thomson?

Ras

[creativegal]

Quinn, you're really no better than the average man, and here I thought you were. Was it the fact that I didn't include your name in when I mentioned I would like to meet Kevin Solway, and Dan Rowden. Well, maybe now you will have an idea how I felt when Dan excluded my name, from the list.

Anyway, it serves me no good to run you down as I can do quite effectively, however I will say, you've disappointed me, I thought you were different. You needed a power trip, and you did it at my expense.

I loath and resent you for banning me. You've succeeded Mr. Quinn in being the first person ever to have created my very first enragement, and hopefully I will never experience such rage again, I shall off myself if I ever feel enragement such as I've experienced today. It only lasted 7 seconds or less, however it was enough to scare Jesus from my body, I at that moment wanted to kill you.

I was never nearly this enraged with even Dan.

Anyway, thats over with, I'm fine again.

You're never going to be able to stop me David, I'm unstoppable, I have other ways of getting through besides this way. If you ban this name to, I can still get through, and I'll prove it. I'm not going to just let you ban me without putting up a fight, I'm not the idiot you take me for Quinn.

Do you believe yourself to be genius Quinn? Answer the question Yes or No?

All this started from when I wrote Zarathustra encouraging him and that pissed you off, admit it Quinn. You're not honest enough to admit it are you? Instead you ban me, totally oblivious to the impact it had on me.
Ignorance is not bliss. Neither is being mean for means sake.

This forum is going down, I sense it.

See ya again Quinn

[Blair]

I'm sure Quinn and Rowden know how to block an IP address.

See ya Foresta.

[wordwarrior]

Yeah, well I can still get in regardless, I don't call myself genius for nothing!

I'm not going anywhere, I'm staying put, if Quinn thinks I'll go down without a fight his thinking is wrong.

[zarathustra]

an eye for an eye makes everybody blind.....

Ghandi








written by lightening for your edification

[zarathustra]

hawk and aquinas?



dahh...


written by lightening for your edification