Abolish Guns that Kill...Replace with Vitamin Guns Instead

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mensa-maniac

Abolish Guns that Kill...Replace with Vitamin Guns Instead

Post by mensa-maniac »

Abolish Guns that Kill...Replace with Vitamin Guns Instead

People are being killed by cops too much and for what--mischievous behavior!

What the hell is our world coming to, people are killing people left right and center in today's society. Certainly, the cops must do their job to keep ill-minded people controlled, but is killing necessary, I think not.

Guns that kill should be abolished and replaced with guns that only wound long enough to hand-cuff the culprits. The Taser Gun kills too, so it should be abolished also. People shouldn't lose their lives because of an out-of-control behavioral momentary incident.

Different measures should be taken so killing is stopped. I say stun people with an injection of vitamins and a relaxant that brings them down immediately. If word gets out world-wide that killing must stop, and the police enforce this, perhaps killing will stop, providing measures are taken.

No matter how bad a person's behavior is, usually, it is only temporary unless the person is criminally insane, in which a long hospital stay would take care of that. But, to kill someone because of bad behavior, is entirely wrong.

Much killing is done through drug interactions, if drugs were monitored and legalized perhaps killing would stop. People die in vain because of things which could be changed with a little intelligence.

The jails are filled with criminals who wouldn't be criminals if changes were made.
Gurrb
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Re: Abolish Guns that Kill...Replace with Vitamin Guns Instead

Post by Gurrb »

we kill because we do not understand why we live.
IJesusChrist
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Re: Abolish Guns that Kill...Replace with Vitamin Guns Instead

Post by IJesusChrist »

Whats so great about being alive?
To think or not to think.
mensa-maniac

Re: Abolish Guns that Kill...Replace with Vitamin Guns Instead

Post by mensa-maniac »

IJesusChrist wrote:Whats so great about being alive?
What's so great about being alive, let me answer that for you I JesusChrist. It's for other people, not for yourself, if you make a difference in one person's life, then your existence is valuable, Jesus Christ you should know that!

You are valuable as long as you are honest, no matter how you sound to others, the main thing is be honest to yourself, then you can be honest to others! Because honesty is better than lying, honesty is truth, so as long as you continue to be honest, then you're valuable to not only yourself but to others also.

Because it is from truth of the participants of this forum, that contributed to my education, that's what makes it great to be alive!
Animus
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Re: Abolish Guns that Kill...Replace with Vitamin Guns Instead

Post by Animus »

I think you have valuable insight here M-M, but your ideas could use some work. I think the fact that police use deadly force only adds to what drives violent crime. It can act as justification for a "What's the point?" attitude. A lot of crime comes about not because people have bad role models in adulthood, but because of a social ethos bent on egotism. Imagine yourself an inept individual growing up in an ethnic ghetto, your parents aren't very wealthy and are tripping over their own selves constantly, they barely spend any time with you other than to scold you for interfering with their activities or to command you to do something. Your parents curse you to go to school, but seemingly could care less of the results and expect that you'll be the failure they desperately wish they weren't. Your interest in immediate reward will probably catapult you into a life devoid of intellect and sound reason, lacking education, likely your entire identity will be rooted and built-up in a gang mentality. Watching a police officer waste some dude at this point isn't really any consequence other than to further consolidate your view that society is fucked up and its every man for himself. But you knew that by now anyway.

If you can imagine what it would be like if everyone thought "Society is fucked up and its every man for himself." then chances are the statement would be true. Fortunately, that isn't entirely the case, though it often seems that way since we are most subjected to the juiciest bits of gossip. The basic source of crime is egotism, it is egotism of the criminal and egotism of the society at large, the two really go hand in hand. A criminal may just be an individual who failed to conform to the irrational demands of the society and this set them at odds with each other. The adolescent instinctively knows something is amiss with justice in the society and can push the boundaries quite a lot trying to wrap their head around it. Most people are made to conform either by sheer overbearing force or seemingly rational understanding. Sometimes a criminal is just someone who sees clearly through irrational laws and courageously acts in defiance of them, forcing the rest of us to pause and think before we condemn them.

Violent crime can be broken into three useful classifications. Impulse crime which does not involve planning, but a lack of self-control. A person feels an immediate need to commit a crime and follows through without forethought. This is characteristic of crimes motivated by emotional attachments, especially toward other people. A man who finds his wife in bed with the milkman, kills his wife and the milkman in a fit of rage and then regrets the act, this man is an impulsive killer. This man's basic problem is that his emotions at the time were stronger than his ability to control them and is not so uncommon in our modern societies.

Compulsive crime stems from an obsession and usually involves foresight, deliberation, conscious intent, as well as a lack of self-control. The compulsive criminal has an addiction to crime, for example a kleptomaniac would be a compulsive thief, a person who steals because they are addicted to the sensation and it overpowers their ability to self-control. This kind of person may have a predisposition to whatever criminal act they are involved in, or it may originate gradually as a mild interest - the kind of thing one thinks "I can quit this anytime". In violent crime this is characteristic of most serial killers like Dahmer, Zodiac Killer, John Wayne Gacy, etc...

Finally, there is the career criminal who consciously attends to the crime, deliberates on it, plans it and does so with self-control, however this person is usually lacking with respect to wisdom and conscience, or of the perception that the society is corrupt and therefor it is justifiable to do the same. This kind of person is the most likely to fit the lay perception of a hardened criminal. These are the kids coming out of ghettos and involved in ethnic gang life. These are the Russian mob and the Yakuza, the Neustra Familia and Mara Salvachutra 13. Crips and Bloods, Hell's Angels and the Mongrels. These are people whose entire identity is rooted and built-up in a social atmosphere completely different than the rest and understanding them depends on an intimate understanding of their circumstances.

Mara Salvachutra (MS13) began as a Salvadorian ethnic gang in the United States but were deported to El Salvador when they were discovered. By that time they had evolved into a hardy gang rivaling other large gangs like Nortenos. In El Salvador MS13 thrived multiplying at a rapid rate, as apparently MS13 brought the ethnicism of gang life with them. Now MS13 is one of the largest gangs worldwide and their colours appear on multiple continents and countries including USA and Canada. They are one of the most violent and bloody gangs ever documented, using machetes to chop people up for no apparent reason other than jollies. These people are not motivated by cops shooting criminals, they are motivated by ethnic pride and a warped sense of reality that originated from living in dim social circumstances.

Spree Murderers like Charles Starkweather and Caryl Ann Fugate are usually motivated by an intense hatred of the society at large, which might rightly belong in its own classification of violent criminals. Others in this category are Columbine killers, V-Tech killer, etc... although this can also be lumped in with compulsive crime, its just that they don't stretch over a long period of time because spree murderers are usually caught, killed or commit suicide in the act.

Cops shooting people is a part of it though and probably would be a good idea to stop it.
mensa-maniac

Re: Abolish Guns that Kill...Replace with Vitamin Guns Instead

Post by mensa-maniac »

Animus

I agree with most of what you say, thanks for the education I think! I never realized Mara Salvachutra existed, thank God they were deported to EL Salvadore. Perhaps, I'm a little naive, or ignorant to this sort-of-thing. These low-mentality terrorist ignoramus they sound like something I wouldn't want to be any part of, I'm not into violence at all! I'd win them over with my expertise knowledge on how to convince and persuade the fuck-heads, if I were ever captured by the culprits, I'd convince them that they liked me, then they'd protect me.

I'm not in any way narrow-minded, I realized the Ghettos existed from films.

Most people have skeletons in their closets, stemming from their childhood, it's how you handle the child within you that enables the growth to manhood or womanhood!
Animus
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Re: Abolish Guns that Kill...Replace with Vitamin Guns Instead

Post by Animus »

mensa-maniac wrote:Animus

I agree with most of what you say, thanks for the education I think! I never realized Mara Salvachutra existed, thank God they were deported to EL Salvadore. Perhaps, I'm a little naive, or ignorant to this sort-of-thing. These low-mentality terrorist ignoramus they sound like something I wouldn't want to be any part of, I'm not into violence at all! I'd win them over with my expertise knowledge on how to convince and persuade the fuck-heads, if I were ever captured by the culprits, I'd convince them that they liked me, then they'd protect me.

I'm not in any way narrow-minded, I realized the Ghettos existed from films.

Most people have skeletons in their closets, stemming from their childhood, it's how you handle the child within you that enables the growth to manhood or womanhood!
I don't think its ever too late for someone to change. But I think it will always be harder for the society at large to forgive a "hardened criminal". For example Stanley Williams was an early leader of a violent street gang the Crips and committed several heinous crimes including murder. He was sentenced to death row and spent a lengthy stay awaiting his end. During which he had several revelations that led to his writing various books aimed at turning youth away from gang life. This lead to his plea for clemency - while Schwarzenegger was newly appointed governor of California. Williams was not asking to be released from prison, only to spend the remainder of his natural life in prison on the premise that he would continue his current path of self-realization and reaching out to youth.

The social atmosphere around Williams' execution was quite explosive. There were thousands of people calling for him to get Clemency, he was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize and on a larger scale the state of California was in debate over the efficacy of capital punishment. Still there were extremists in favor of his execution, a Los Angeles radio show hosted a "Tookie Must Die (For Killing Four Innocent People)" hour daily until his execution. "Tookie" was the nickname of Stanley Williams. The attitude toward Stanley was split amongst the surviving relatives of his alleged victims. The stepmother of one of the victims stated "I think he is the same cold-blooded killer that he was then and he would be now if he had the opportunity again.", by contrast the widow of the same victim had this to say "I, Linda Owens want to build upon Mr. Williams' peace initiative. I invite Mr. Williams to join me in sending a message to all communities that we should all unite in peace. This position of peace would honor my husband's memory and Mr. Williams work.".

Stanley William's appeared hours before his death on a radio show to make the following statement:

"My lack of fear of this barbaric methodology of death, I rely upon my faith. It has nothing to do with machismo, with manhood, or with some pseudo former gang street code. This is pure faith, and predicated on my redemption. So, therefore, I just stand strong and continue to tell you, your audience, and the world that I am innocent and, yes, I have been a wretched person, but I have redeemed myself. And I say to you and all those who can listen and will listen that redemption is tailor-made for the wretched, and that's what I used to be…That's what I would like the world to remember me. That's how I would like my legacy to be remembered as: a redemptive transition, something that I believe is not exclusive just for the so-called sanctimonious, the elitists. And it doesn't—is not predicated on color or race or social stratum or one's religious background. It's accessible for everybody. That's the beauty about it. And whether others choose to believe that I have redeemed myself or not, I worry not, because I know and God knows, and you can believe that all of the youths that I continue to help, they know, too. So with that, I am grateful…I say to you and everyone else, God bless. So take care."

You see, we don't know how to forgive crime, especially violent crime and so we keep the monster alive. A lot of people will not have the mentality Williams had unto his death, but will maintain an animosity toward the society. Although, from my experience with reading the last statements of men executed in Texas, it is fairly common for them to make these statements that contain remorse, solidarity and content immediately prior to being executed. One wonders if they are futile last attempt to win a sympathetic ear, it seems highly unlikely. Either these people have long since come to terms with the situation or had a last minute epiphany. I'm guessing a few years on death row has quite an effect on the mind.
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DHodges
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Abolish trying to abolish things that can not be abolished

Post by DHodges »

Sometimes people need killin'.
mensa-maniac

Re: Abolish trying to abolish things that can not be abolished

Post by mensa-maniac »

DHodges wrote:Sometimes people need killin'.
The only people who need killin' are those who kill! And those who kill with words, should be killed with words.

And those who kill the killer will set it up in such a way that the killer actually kills himself, therefore freeing the killer who kills the killer from being labled a killer too.
Animus
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Re: Abolish Guns that Kill...Replace with Vitamin Guns Instead

Post by Animus »

Date of Execution:
January 12, 2010
Offender:
Johnson, Gary
Last Statement:
Tell my family goodbye. I can't see them. Jenny, you keep your promise to me, O.K.? Dell, you take care of Gaylene always. Dixie watch over all the kids. Tell them thank you for coming down. Jennie talk to them O.K.? Talk to Jennie, O.K. Dell. Dell you tell the rest of them what they did was wrong for letting me fall for what they did. I never done anything in my life to anybody.


Date of Execution:
December 3, 2009
Offender:
Woods, Bobby Wayne
Last Statement:
Bye, I'm Ready.



Date of Execution:
November 19, 2009
Offender:
Thompson, Robert Lee
Last Statement:
Yes, I bear witness that there is no God, but Allah. From Allah we came and from Allah we will return. To my mother, friends I would like to thank you for all that you have done for me. For you love. This is another testimony of faith. We all have to walk this path. Smile, be happy don't cry. To the family of any victims, AsSalaam Alaikum, unto Allah I belong, unto Allah we return. I just want you to know that I never meant any of your family to get hurt. I hope you forgive me. I know Allah will forgive me, Allah is the forgiver. Go ahead Warden. I love you, love you too.


Date of Execution:
November 18, 2009
Offender:
Simpson, Danielle
Last Statement:
Yeah, I want to tell my family I love ya'll. Tell Kate I love her too. Tell brother, my kids I live ya'll. I'm gonna miss ya'll. I'm ready, ready.

Date of Execution:
November 10, 2009
Offender:
Valle, Yosvanis
Last Statement:
I am sorry, I never wanted to kill your family. I never wanted to kill your family or these people. I am sorry for the way I talk in English. I did it to myself. I was forced to do it. I was a gang member. I never wanted to kill your brother. I was forced to do this. I blame myself. I am not going to blame nobody. I got my mother and my family too. I was forced. I tell you from my heart. I am sorry with all my heart. That's the reality of life, I am sorry. I got to pay for it. To my family, I love you, be strong. They have family too; the way they suffer is the way I am suffering. I am asking you to go and give them hugs. Please accept their hugs. Be strong in the Lord. I love you sister. I love you all, please go and try and talk to the family. I love my family. I understand why I am paying this price. Do not have any excuses for not extending your love. I am ready Warden, I am sorry everybody, I did it. Thank you brother, don't hate nobody, I feel good. I love my family, I love you Jesus. Be strong mama, I love you sister. I love Jesus. Warden I am ready.

Date of Execution:
November 5, 2009
Offender:
Oliver, Khristian
Last Statement:
Collins family, I know your not going to get the closure you are looking for tonight. I wish you the best. I prayed for ya'll every day and every night. I have only the warmest wishes. I am sorry for what you are having to go through. Mom, Pa, Kristy, Khristopher, Tony I love all ya'll. Thank you Mr. Whiteside.

The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures; He leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul; He guides me down the right paths. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; for thou art with me. Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies; Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup over runneth.

Date of Execution:
October 27, 2009
Offender:
Blanton, Reginald
Last Statement:
Yes I do. I know ya'lls pain, believe me I shed plenty of tears behind Carlos. Carlos was my friend. I didn't murder him. This what is happening right now is an injustice. This doesn't solve anything. This will not bring back Carlos. Ya'll fought real hard here to prove my innocence. This is only the beginning. I love each and everyone dearly. Dre My queen. I love you. Yaws, Junie I love yall. Stay strong, continue to fight. They are fixing to pump my veins with a lethal drug the American Veterinary Association won't even allow to be used on dogs. I say I am worse off than a dog. They want to kill me for this; I am not the man that did this. Fight on. I will see ya'll again. That's all I can say.

Date of Execution:
September 22, 2009
Offender:
Coleman, Christopher
Last Statement:
Yes, Ain't no way fo' fo', I Love all yall.


Date of Execution:
September 16, 2009
Offender:
Stephen Moody #999076
Last Statement:
Yes sir, to Joseph's mom and son. I was unable to respond to you in the courtroom. I can only ask that you have the peace that I do. To my brother, you are a good brother. You're the best. And I love you. Can't beat ya. The beautiful lady standing next to you. Kathy you are next to my heart. Amber I love you. Warden, pull the trigger. I love you brother never forget it. Ronnie, Linda, Amber, Kathy. Chaplain Hart you're the best. Love you Thomas.



etc... etc...

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/executedoffenders.htm
Animus
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Re: Abolish Guns that Kill...Replace with Vitamin Guns Instead

Post by Animus »

Oooh!

Date of Execution:
02/12/2009
Offender:
Johnson, Johnny
Last Statement:
The Polunsky dungeon should be compared with the Death Row Community as existing not living. Why do I say this, the Death Row is full of isolated hearts and suppressed minds. We are filled with love looking for affection and a way to understand. I am a Death Row resident of the Polunsky dungeon. Why does my heart ache. We want pleasure love and satisfaction. It. The walls of darkness crushed in on me. Life without meaning is life without purpose. But the solace within the Polunsky dungeon, the unforgivesness within society, the church Pastors and Christians. It is terrifying. Does anyone care or who I am. Can you feel me people. The Polunsky dungeon is what I call the pit of hopelessness. The terrfying thing is the US is the only place, country that is the only civilized country that is free that says it will stop murder and enable justice. I ask each of you to lift up your voices to demand an end to the Death Penalty. If we live, we live to the Lord. If we die we die to the Lord. Christ rose again, in Jesus name. Bye Aunt Helen, Luise, Joanna and to all the rest of yall. You may proceed Warden. (began singing)
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Re: Abolish trying to abolish things that can not be abolished

Post by Tomas »

DHodges wrote:Sometimes people need killin'.
The death penalty rules .. and should be expanded, to include:
Don't run to your death
Animus
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Re: Abolish trying to abolish things that can not be abolished

Post by Animus »

Tomas wrote:
DHodges wrote:Sometimes people need killin'.
The death penalty rules .. and should be expanded, to include:
Nosce te ipsum
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Tomas
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Re: Abolish trying to abolish things that can not be abolished

Post by Tomas »

Animus wrote:
Tomas wrote:
DHodges wrote:Sometimes people need killin'.
The death penalty rules .. and should be expanded, to include:
Nosce te ipsum
Mine was a tongue-in-cheek response to an old nemesis, Dave.
Note his rephrased header... Abolish trying to abolish things that can not be abolished
Don't run to your death
Animus
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Re: Abolish trying to abolish things that can not be abolished

Post by Animus »

Nobody needs killing
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DHodges
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Re: Abolish trying to abolish things that can not be abolished

Post by DHodges »

Tomas wrote:Mine was a tongue-in-cheek response to an old nemesis, Dave.
Note his rephrased header... Abolish trying to abolish things that can not be abolished
Nemesis? Really? I am honored.

Anyway, guns can not be abolished. It is an impossibility.

I don't think that many people really want to abolish guns, anyway. They want to keep them out of the "wrong" hands. Very few people talk about disarming the police and army, for instance.


("Wrong" is in quotes because the people who want to keep them out of those hands also want to decide which are the "wrong" hands.)


edit for a quote:
Patrick Henry wrote:Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? ... If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"
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