The best modern test for measuring intelligence

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Ryan Rudolph
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The best modern test for measuring intelligence

Post by Ryan Rudolph » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:27 am

It has often been debated here that the IQ test is not a sufficient measure of intelligence, but I wonder what is the best modern test that is able to accurately measure ones degree of intelligence, preferably emotional intelligence/degree of rationality. Anyone know of the best test out there? a test that tries to measure how logical and emotional sane a person is, and a test that really measures how enlightened a person is?

Animus
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Re: The best modern test for measuring intelligence

Post by Animus » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:43 am

Ryan Rudolph wrote:It has often been debated here that the IQ test is not a sufficient measure of intelligence, but I wonder what is the best modern test that is able to accurately measure ones degree of intelligence, preferably emotional intelligence/degree of rationality. Anyone know of the best test out there? a test that tries to measure how logical and emotional sane a person is, and a test that really measures how enlightened a person is?
Nope, there are IQ tests that rely more on pattern recognition and less on knowledge of specific patterns. E.g. instead of testing knowledge of prime numbers as so many IQ tests do, these tests use various geometric forms and ask particpants to find the underlying pattern.

Supposedly the actual Mensa test is more along these lines, however the "workout" provided on their website relies heavily on mathematical knowledge and at least one question requires some knowledge of prime numbers.

Knowledge is presumably different than general intelligence, so it is important that the test results are not confounded by individual knowledge, such as that of prime numbers.

Still there is no test of dysrationalia outside of a few preliminary research articles on the subject. There are ways of testing for personal bias, implicit bias and so forth, but these haven't become integrated into standard psychometric tests like Intelligence Quotient.

Check out this article preview from Sciam: Rational and Irrational Thought: The Thinking That IQ Tests Miss

Also check out Harvard's Project Implicit conducted by Mahzarin Banaji and colleagues. It is designed to test for implicit association bias, that is knowledge links that are implicit and not explicit and provides an underlying bases for prejudiced thinking.

Animus
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Re: The best modern test for measuring intelligence

Post by Animus » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:08 am

Here is a good one http://www.iqtest.dk/main.swf

It relies entirely on being able to recognize a sequence and predict the next step, pattern recognition. Additionally, the answers to the questions are not published upon completing the test, so there is no option of repeating it with a cheat sheet.

Apparently "Mensa Level" is the highest you can get on the chart at the end of the test, anywhere from 130+ I just hit it with 133.

Edit: turns out this test is designed by Mensa Danmark and is specifically designed to be culture fair and not rely on mathematical knowledge or otherwise.
Last edited by Animus on Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Animus
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Re: The best modern test for measuring intelligence

Post by Animus » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:19 am

I'd honestly like to see those amongst us who tout their IQ complete this test and upload the results graphic to a website where we can observe their test results. People like Prince or Mensa-Maniac who tout superior intelligence. Of course, its only a test of pattern recognition abilities and not rationality, but what the hell, it'd be fun anyway.

The test has a 40m time limit and 39 questions, but it only took me 5 mins to do the complete test. Ample time for testing.

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Ryan Rudolph
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Re: The best modern test for measuring intelligence

Post by Ryan Rudolph » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:57 am

I was thinking something more along these lines: Something that measures your personality type, but combined with a measure of emotional intelligence/rational ability. Jung's test is ok, but lacking in some ways.

Here is a link created by Jung:

http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/jtypes1.htm

My Score was the following:

Your Type is

INTJ

Introverted Intuitive Thinking Judging

Strength of the preferences %
78 75 25 67

However, the intuitive and thinking categories are rather confusing and do not make much sense, they should be one category combined together. Some of the questions were not all that relevant to intelligence as well.

Animus
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Re: The best modern test for measuring intelligence

Post by Animus » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:07 am

Ryan Rudolph wrote:I was thinking something more along these lines: Something that measures your personality type, but combined with a measure of emotional intelligence/rational ability. Jung's test is ok, but lacking in some ways.

Here is a link created by Jung:

http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/jtypes1.htm

My Score was the following:

Your Type is

INTJ

Introverted Intuitive Thinking Judging

Strength of the preferences %
78 75 25 67

However, the intuitive and thinking categories are rather confusing and do not make much sense, they should be one category combined together. Some of the questions were not all that relevant to intelligence as well.
I don't buy into personality tests at all, they are extremely dichotomous, and few of them take in the full breadth of our understanding about human personality.

IJesusChrist
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Re: The best modern test for measuring intelligence

Post by IJesusChrist » Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:01 am

@Animus,

That is one intense test - the last 10 questions anyways. Took me well over 20 minutes. I didn't do as well as you, but still above average.

I remember taking IQ tests when I was 12 and scoring 135+, while now I score a meager 118.

They were adjusted to age of course (allowed more time), but still thats unfortunate. :(

But on topic:
To measure intelligence is like measuring beauty. First of all why would you want to do it? For labels? Second of all, you simply can't. It's too complex, there are too many areas, and to attempt to say one person is more intelligent than another by the design of somebodies 'test' is funny in itself. Obviously if you rely on IQ tests to proclaim your Genius, you're approaching a paradox :).
To think or not to think.

Animus
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Re: The best modern test for measuring intelligence

Post by Animus » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:36 pm

Some things to note about IQ tests Mr. Christ:

IQ tests, test a battery of cognitive features, each with their own strengths and weaknesses to derive at g (general intelligence). The IQ score is a composite scoring.

Each cognitive feature is flexible, they are plastic, your IQ score will not remain static throughout your life. If you relax into a life of vegetating in-front of the TV or spend your time relaxing your cognition, then your cognition will decline, but if you exercise it, your IQ score will incline.

I noticed during the test, that some patterns follow different logic than others, being able to identify the logic at play, is as much a feature of knowledge as it is "general intelligence". If you don't have the winning strategy, you will probably stare dumbfounded at the patterns. It might click in eventually, but much easier if you already understand the logic and are simply looking to see what logic is at play.

As with any test or competition the content of your mind can act as a barrier to your success. If your concern is with beating other people or showing improvement and not on the content of the test itself, your success will be impeded. The reason IQ tests have come under scrutiny lately, is the realization of "stereotype threat". When a woman is given a test of mathematics and reminded of the stereotype "Men are better at math" this infects the woman's mind, she becomes preoccupied with her inferiority or disproving the stereotype, she ends up doing worse that if she wasn't primed with the stereotype at all. You see, the content of the mind interferes with proper cognition.

Carmel

Re: The best modern test for measuring intelligence

Post by Carmel » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:20 pm

Animus:
When a woman is given a test of mathematics and reminded of the stereotype "Men are better at math" this infects the woman's mind, she becomes preoccupied with her inferiority or disproving the stereotype, she ends up doing worse that if she wasn't primed with the stereotype at all. You see, the content of the mind interferes with proper cognition.

Carmel:
Yes, I read that recently too. When the women were not primed with that false stereotype they performed equally to the men.

..but what if the men were lied to in such a way, i.e. shown some false data that stated that women were better at math? It may have produced some anxiety in enough of the men to lower their average score.

It does seem that anxiety, whatever the cause, does interfere with cognitive function.


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Ryan Rudolph
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Re: The best modern test for measuring intelligence

Post by Ryan Rudolph » Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:15 am

Animus,
I don't buy into personality tests at all, they are extremely dichotomous, and few of them take in the full breadth of our understanding about human personality.
I think all intelligence tests are limited, but what I like about personality tests is that they attempt to pin down particular tendencies and characteristics pertaining to intelligence. For instance: the distinction between introverted and extroverted has some merit if it is defined properly. Typical extroverted individuals tend to be egoists because they seek atttention, they attempt to get a spot in the spotlight when they are in crowds, they speak to strangers just for the sake of speaking to try to draw attention to themselves, whereas introverts usually have a low desire for being in the spotlight. Usually this is due to a fear of humiliation or embarrassment. However, never the less, their personalities are much more cautious, and i bet more introverts go on to be intellectuals than extroverts. Extroverts tend not to get hurt emotionally as much when they are embarrassed or humiliated, which is not a good characteristic for a philosopher who needs to grow and mature over time.

However, an enlightened introvert becomes an extrovert because he can then speech confidently with others on important intellectual matters.

If I had to create a personality/intelligence test: I might start with the following qualities:

1. whether person is organized/messy (OCD?)
2. knowledge of basic logical principles.
3. confidence of judging behavior.
4. Knowledge of psychology/mysticism.
5. examine how much egoism is present.
6. Attempt to discover values.
7. Attempt to bring out any irrational opinions.

Animus
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Re: The best modern test for measuring intelligence

Post by Animus » Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:01 am

Ryan Rudolph wrote:Animus,
I don't buy into personality tests at all, they are extremely dichotomous, and few of them take in the full breadth of our understanding about human personality.
I think all intelligence tests are limited, but what I like about personality tests is that they attempt to pin down particular tendencies and characteristics pertaining to intelligence. For instance: the distinction between introverted and extroverted has some merit if it is defined properly. Typical extroverted individuals tend to be egoists because they seek atttention, they attempt to get a spot in the spotlight when they are in crowds, they speak to strangers just for the sake of speaking to try to draw attention to themselves, whereas introverts usually have a low desire for being in the spotlight. Usually this is due to a fear of humiliation or embarrassment. However, never the less, their personalities are much more cautious, and i bet more introverts go on to be intellectuals than extroverts. Extroverts tend not to get hurt emotionally as much when they are embarrassed or humiliated, which is not a good characteristic for a philosopher who needs to grow and mature over time.

However, an enlightened introvert becomes an extrovert because he can then speech confidently with others on important intellectual matters.

If I had to create a personality/intelligence test: I might start with the following qualities:

1. whether person is organized/messy (OCD?)
2. knowledge of basic logical principles.
3. confidence of judging behavior.
4. Knowledge of psychology/mysticism.
5. examine how much egoism is present.
6. Attempt to discover values.
7. Attempt to bring out any irrational opinions.
From what I understand they do test for what they call the "Big 5" personality traits, which are themselves composites of other traits. neurosis is one of the big 5.

But that's not the problem I have with them. The problem I have is that introversion v extroversion is a false dichotomy. What is being discussed is the bulk of attentional focus, we move in and out of introverting and extroverting daily. For example when you type out a post on this forum you are extroverting, but perhaps in preparation you do a fair amount of introverting, or perhaps the experience is more of a synthesis of introversion and extroversion, and all that is being observed externally is outward behavior. In this case I'm typing out a post so I am presumably extroverted, but mentally I'm thinking over a lot in my own mind - introverting.

Thus it would be accurate to label everyone as introverted-extroverts or extroverted-introverts. I think what they mean to do is express one's placing on a continuum of extroversion-introversion without representing it spectrally. It is "dumbed down" for the simplicity and loses something of an accurate description in the process.

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Re: The best modern test for measuring intelligence

Post by Animus » Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:04 am

In the end i think personality tests simply produce a charicature of the actual person. It's a bit like those artists who pluck out the most salient features of an individual's appearance and creates a cartoonish representation. Something of the original individual is recognizable in the image, but the image doesn't capture the full individual the way a photograph does.

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Ryan Rudolph
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Re: The best modern test for measuring intelligence

Post by Ryan Rudolph » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:49 am

Animus,

Wouldn't you agree though that the more delusions a test is able to capture, the closer to a complete picture we would be able to come to?

For instance: I understand many poster's minds in this forum, their traps, their delusions, their longings, and so on. And if I was able to create an intelligence test that captured the sum of all that, it would represent a fairly detailed snapshot of their minds.

I would argue that a deluded mind is simply the sum of all its nonsense, all its contradictions, longings, attachments, fears, anxieties, delusions and so on. So in theory, with the right set of questions skillfully crafted, one should be able to probe into the very depths of the person's mind, and bring all the garbage to the surface.

However, the more rational the mind becomes, the more complicated it would be to capture a snapshot, there is much more to consider.

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Re: The best modern test for measuring intelligence

Post by pierdog » Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:42 am

WISDOM is the ability to avoid unecessary conflict while COURAGE is the ability to confront necessary conflict. INTELLIGENCE is the ability to efficiently solve problems. A man needs all three in equal proportion. Most men are lacking in each to different degrees. HONESTY is the ability to not BS yourself about how much of which you lack. And NO...there's no online test to help asses these qualities.

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uncledote
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Re: The best modern test for measuring intelligence

Post by uncledote » Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:29 am

Animus wrote:
The test has a 40m time limit and 39 questions, but it only took me 5 mins to do the complete test. Ample time for testing.

Nobody likes a big head!

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Pincho Paxton
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Re: The best modern test for measuring intelligence

Post by Pincho Paxton » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:42 am

There are brain scans being worked on to visually examine your brain for your intelligence. That is the best way.

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Blair
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Re: The best modern test for measuring intelligence

Post by Blair » Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:27 pm

Animus wrote:I'd honestly like to see those amongst us who tout their IQ complete this test and upload the results graphic to a website where we can observe their test results. People like Prince
108 in 20 minutes - whilst intoxicated.

Interestingly the last 10 or so questions indeed proved impossible to figure out in that impaired state.

IJesusChrist
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Re: The best modern test for measuring intelligence

Post by IJesusChrist » Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:20 pm

I study better with a 3 shots in me.
To think or not to think.

Animus
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Re: The best modern test for measuring intelligence

Post by Animus » Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:35 am

uncledote wrote:Nobody likes a big head!
It is what it is. Let those who can, accept it.

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Tomas
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Re: The best modern test for measuring intelligence

Post by Tomas » Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:18 am

Ryan Rudolph wrote:Here is a link created by Jung:

http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/jtypes1.htm

My Score was the following:

Your Type is

INTJ

Introverted Intuitive Thinking Judging

Strength of the preferences %
78 75 25 67
"Counselor"

What a trip, my favorite activity :-)

Strength of the preferences %
22 38 25 11 -- I N F J

Also took the Jung Marriage Test, Risk Attitudes Profiler, Entrepreneur Test & Role Model Profiler.

Thanks, Ryan. Really...

.
Don't run to your death

IJesusChrist
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Re: The best modern test for measuring intelligence

Post by IJesusChrist » Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:27 am

Your Type is
ENFJ

Extraverted Intuitive Feeling Judging

1 75 12 1

Lolz.
To think or not to think.

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Pincho Paxton
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Re: The best modern test for measuring intelligence

Post by Pincho Paxton » Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:50 am

YOUR TYPE
I N T J
Strength of the preferences %
33 88 62 1
It says that I am a MASTERMIND like Isaac Newton, and Steven Hawkins, 1% of the population. Great!!!
http://keirsey.com/handler.aspx?s=keirs ... mastermind

mensa-maniac

Re: The best modern test for measuring intelligence

Post by mensa-maniac » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:19 am

Ryan Rudolph wrote:It has often been debated here that the IQ test is not a sufficient measure of intelligence, but I wonder what is the best modern test that is able to accurately measure ones degree of intelligence, preferably emotional intelligence/degree of rationality. Anyone know of the best test out there? a test that tries to measure how logical and emotional sane a person is, and a test that really measures how enlightened a person is?
Hi Ryan

Good thing you used the word "tries" to measure how logical and emotional sane a person is. I don't know how they could even try, because my logic tells me it's impossible, all they'd come up with is illogical, false data. And I could go into explaining but I think I'll leave it alone.

Quite often my father would say, "I'm to sane" he believed he was to sane. I believe he was of logical mind, the man was brilliant, with only a grade 2 or 3 education. But, with many abilities, besides being a sinner.

I could get information for you by asking my friend, ex publisher, and best seller Tracy Repchuk
who tested 2 levels above MENSA, which is in the genius level I believe. It's really amazing because I had informed many people on-line that Tracy Repchuk was a genius 4 years before she was tested. And Tracy published what I had said online. Anyway, I'm sure she'll know, because she advised me on what to do to be tested. I will ask Tracy when she gets back from a business trip.

Donna

Gurrb
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Re: The best modern test for measuring intelligence

Post by Gurrb » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:39 am

i scored 140, but i don't take much weight in that. i guessed the last question, but besides that, the test was pretty straightforward. it's an internet iq test, i don't think it's that accurate if its ceiling is around the 140 mark.
it's just a number... a very black-and-white number.

i think eq, as it's been studied, is more of an accurate score in terms of success in the interpersonal world. i think if a high iq scorer has a low eq score, they're not what i view as being 'intelligent'. i view them as being book smarts, or well-learned.

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