I'm no Liar...Are you?

[mensa-maniac]

I'm no Liar...Are you?

Just for the record Ryan, I'm no Liar!

My mother instilled in me from young childhood not to lie. I didn't lie about my remembering my birth. Just because education taught you 'Brainwash' doesn't mean I'm lying. I must have been traumatized while in my mothers womb, because I remember my awareness of being in that small contained area like it happened yesterday.

If you have trouble believing my truth, that doesn't make me a Liar! Lying makes the Liar.

Call me anything else if the shoe fits, but I'm no confused Liar! Liars become confused because they don't know if they've told a truth or lied about it.

My mother said Liars are sick-minded, they lie so much they don't know what the truth is from a lie. They are unhappy people.

So don't ever call me a Liar again!

[Tomas]

.


-mensa-maniac-
My mother instilled in me from young childhood not to lie.

-tomas-
So did mine :-)


-mensa-
I didn't lie about my remembering my birth.

-tomas-
I believe (understand) you. The female has an extra wavelength added (by Nature) the male can not tune in to. And vice versa.


-mensa-
Just because education taught you 'Brainwash' doesn't mean I'm lying.

-tomas-
For good reason. Not all males are created equal. And vice versa.


-mensa-
I must have been traumatized while in my mothers womb, because I remember
my awareness of being in that small contained area like it happened yesterday.

-tomas-
Believe it or not, but what a woman consumes as food weighs heavily on what enters the umbilical cord. The umbilical cord is that "special attachment" that sustains us from the dust of the earth to living, breathing humans, and then back to the dust. The soul is that "special attachment" that allows us to be.


-mensa-
My mother said Liars are sick-minded, they lie so much they don't
know what the truth is from a lie. They are unhappy people.

-tomas-
Having not met Ryan, what he is is who he is.

[Animus]

Yea, I have lied, I try not to, but its tough.

Consider this. One evening I was walking home from work and I came upon a drunk man in his early 20s. He was harassing some women, soliciting them for sex and drugs. The women seemed to be either teenagers or grandmothers, a combination of the two. I interrupted to spare them this man's harassment, but took it on myself instead. A long story short, the guy ended up hanging out at my apartment for a couple of hours, which isn't unusual or particularly problematic. However, at some point he whipped his dick out and started masturbating (at me). I soon realized the guy was interested in having sex with me and so I said to him "Daniel, I'd prefer it if you refrained from masturbating in my presence. I am not interested in engaging in homosexual behaviors.".

So, here is where I lie, when I retold this story the first half-dozen times I altered the ending a bit. In my altered ending I forced Daniel to leave my apartment by physical removal. In the actual case, he left on his own, he called Quest Personals and arranged to meet up with another man for casual sex. But, believe me, its difficult to tell the story without inserting some extra manliness. Anyway, I realized that I was lieing, it wasn't obvious to me at first, and it was an arguably harmless lie. But, I must admit to lieing in that case. Even that I consider to be a lie and it turns out, this kind of lieing, the kind we all think somewhat accetable runs really deep in the psyche. Its all the ego, trying to look better to others.

Now, I fully expect others to say they wouldn't or haven't made such lies, and that my friends is the BIG lie.

[Animus]

I'm no Liar...Are you?

Just for the record Ryan, I'm no Liar!

My mother instilled in me from young childhood not to lie. I didn't lie about my remembering my birth. Just because education taught you 'Brainwash' doesn't mean I'm lying. I must have been traumatized while in my mothers womb, because I remember my awareness of being in that small contained area like it happened yesterday.

If you have trouble believing my truth, that doesn't make me a Liar! Lying makes the Liar.

Call me anything else if the shoe fits, but I'm no confused Liar! Liars become confused because they don't know if they've told a truth or lied about it.

My mother said Liars are sick-minded, they lie so much they don't know what the truth is from a lie. They are unhappy people.

So don't ever call me a Liar again!

Have you ever heard of a confabulation? A fabricated memory?

I have a ton of fabricated memories. When I was 7 years old I was hit by a big truck and I lost all of my childhood memory. I can't actually remember anything before I was about 10 years old. However, because I've heard the same stories repeated over and over by my family, I've fabricated visual scenes in my mind and memorized the events as such. So it seems like there is a rich tapestry of memories from my childhood now, but there isn't. The only way I can tell the difference is whether or not I remember remembering the memories in the past. With that said, they could be regressed memories too, but chances are they are simple fabrications. As regards "regressed memories" it turns out most of these are fabricated. What happens is a person fabricates a memory then becomes convinced from its realistic quality, that it was a regressed memory.

Human memory is crap, we constantly lose details and fabricate the missing pieces without ever being conscious of doing so.

[Animus]

In the end, your story is, at best, interesting. But certainly not "a truth", whatever that means. The only true statement to be made about your memory is this: You have a phenomenal representation of your life prenatally. That is the only true statement to be made from that, whether or not this is an accurate representation, a fabrication or a genuine memory, is completely outside of any of our ability to determine. At most, its an interesting story, just as are all our stories from our lives.

[mensa-maniac]

It was more of a knowing, an awareness at the time, more than it was a memory.

It was an awareness, I still see it in my minds eye. I was there realizing I was there at that precise moment in time. Regardless what education tells me, this moment in time was truth. I didn't know I was in anyone's womb, I didn't know I had a mother, I didn't know what I was doing there, I only know of my awareness of being there.

And yes, I don't volunteer information that doesn't need to be mentioned, so yes, I could be accused of lying by withholding things back. But, I'm no intentional liar, therefore I'm not a liar!

[Dan Rowden]

Anyone who says they never lie is either a liar or an idiot - or both.

[Animus]

It was more of a knowing, an awareness at the time, more than it was a memory.

It was an awareness, I still see it in my minds eye. I was there realizing I was there at that precise moment in time. Regardless what education tells me, this moment in time was truth. I didn't know I was in anyone's womb, I didn't know I had a mother, I didn't know what I was doing there, I only know of my awareness of being there.

And yes, I don't volunteer information that doesn't need to be mentioned, so yes, I could be accused of lying by withholding things back. But, I'm no intentional liar, therefore I'm not a liar!

The feeling of eminence you have accompanying your memory does not validate your memory unfortunately. That's all just part of a good fabrication. I learned as a problematic teenager that the best way to lie is to utterly convince yourself of the lie. It turns out this is a big part of how the brain constructs a persistent self-model. In any case where an individual does not feel such eminence within their memories they are likely to suffer depersonalization syndrome and worry about who they are. In most non-spiritual, non-philosophical, rather clinical cases, this is considered a mental disorder. So it should be, as anyone unwittingly struck by this phenomena would hardly be able to function. It is of necessity therefor that the brain creates that feeling accompanying our memories.

[Ataraxia]

"I always tell the truth. Even when I lie." - Tony Montanna

[mensa-maniac]

It's easy for you to say that those who say they never lie are a liar or an idiot or both. That must mean you Dan.

I've proved myself in life, I'm no idiot or liar!

If you have trouble believing my truth, that's your problem not mine. I'm not going to lie just because some half-wit feels insecure.

And for you to poison peoples minds by saying I must be a liar or an idiot, it's people like you that promote hatred towards others, those are your words against me, not others. At least others haven't been cruel with comments. Why don't you show more intelligence.

How different is it to call me an idiot or a liar from a racist remark?

[Tomas]

How different is it to call me an idiot or a liar from a racist remark?

Calling someone an idiot or liar may get you nothing more than a fat lip or a serious beating .. whereas a racist remark may very well land you (for a very long vacation) in the cemetery. If you cross an Italian with an attitude, maybe with Jimmy Hoffa under the south goalpost at Giant's stadium. Do that in South-Central Los Angeles and some of Rodney King's pals will torch you alive. Some parts of Texas and the cowboys will drag you behind a pickup truck. Call a Jew a racist and the Israeli air force will kill your family via a bomb dropped from the sky.

Collateral damage - what a beautiful choice!

[mensa-maniac]

Psychiatrists make up lifetime man-made lables for someone suffering with a temporary ailment, they assume the patient is mentally ill, and most are not. People are victims to psychiatry!

They need their paychecks to keep rolling in at the expense of their patients.

Years ago a psychiatrist labled me, that was his mistake! He prescribed a dopamine inhibitor to prevent to much dopamine production. The results are now something I have to live with for the rest of my life. I'm addicted to this drug, I even wrote a letter to Health Canada about this detrimental drug. I can never go off this drug, I tried unsuccessfully and lied on my couch for seven months trying to beat it's addiction on me. I suffered severe hot and cold chills and a horrible feeling of unwell. Finally, after these many months I couldn't take the suffering any longer, so I went back to the Doctors for a shot.

I was someone these Docs never should have labled. I wasn't mentally ill ever! I merely went to my female Doctor one day telling her I felt euphoria all the time, that I was on a natural high in life. And for that my female Doctor decided I should see a specialist. I didn't know that she meant a psychiatrist until I went to see him. My female Doctor was wrong about me, I would have preferred to remain feeling happy all the time instead of be given a dopamine inhibitor which takes all my feeling away. I no longer feel any kind of euphoria, because of this dopamine inhibitor, except when I put it back in my body through the smoking of pot.

If any birdbrain views me with a mental disorder, he's the one with the mental disorder. And for the record, these drugs the psychiatrists prescribe for their patients sometimes contributes to the patients mental disorder.

If I had any kind of mental disorder I would sound like it or look like it. And besides if I have to continue taking this detrimental fucking drug, then, the drug should be good enough to work as a drug to keep mental illness away right. Therefore, I'm not mentally ill or no where near it!

[Animus]

Psychiatrists make up lifetime man-made lables for someone suffering with a temporary ailment, they assume the patient is mentally ill, and most are not. People are victims to psychiatry!

They need their paychecks to keep rolling in at the expense of their patients.

Years ago a psychiatrist labled me, that was his mistake! He prescribed a dopamine inhibitor to prevent to much dopamine production. The results are now something I have to live with for the rest of my life. I'm addicted to this drug, I even wrote a letter to Health Canada about this detrimental drug. I can never go off this drug, I tried unsuccessfully and lied on my couch for seven months trying to beat it's addiction on me. I suffered severe hot and cold chills and a horrible feeling of unwell. Finally, after these many months I couldn't take the suffering any longer, so I went back to the Doctors for a shot.

I was someone these Docs never should have labled. I wasn't mentally ill ever! I merely went to my female Doctor one day telling her I felt euphoria all the time, that I was on a natural high in life. And for that my female Doctor decided I should see a specialist. I didn't know that she meant a psychiatrist until I went to see him. My female Doctor was wrong about me, I would have preferred to remain feeling happy all the time instead of be given a dopamine inhibitor which takes all my feeling away. I no longer feel any kind of euphoria, because of this dopamine inhibitor, except when I put it back in my body through the smoking of pot.

If any birdbrain views me with a mental disorder, he's the one with the mental disorder. And for the record, these drugs the psychiatrists prescribe for their patients sometimes contributes to the patients mental disorder.

If I had any kind of mental disorder I would sound like it or look like it. And besides if I have to continue taking this detrimental fucking drug, then, the drug should be good enough to work as a drug to keep mental illness away right. Therefore, I'm not mentally ill or no where near it!

Being in a constant state of euphoria is maladaptive and therefor considered a mental disorder. You have to realize that the psychiatric community does not evaluate things on philosophical merits, it evaluates them on how adaptive they are to the community. If a constant state of euphoria causes social problems or attentional deficits that interfere with normal duties then it would be deemed maladaptive and a disorder. Also keep in mind that psychiatrists and psychiatry are two different words; the former refers to practitioners of the latter and not necessarily the latter itself.

Here is a humorous look at some possible maladaptive effects of being too happy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgXObaM9i2Q

[Dan Rowden]

It's easy for you to say that those who say they never lie are a liar or an idiot or both. That must mean you Dan.

I've proved myself in life, I'm no idiot or liar!

How different is it to call me an idiot or a liar from a racist remark?

Anyone who says they never, ever lie is either lying or an idiot because only an idiot never, ever lies. There's a world of difference between being philosophical truthful at all times and being at all times truthful in a mundane sense. There are numerous instances one might cite where being less than truthful in practical, everyday situations is the correct thing to do.

"Radical honesty" is for fools. And I don't really believe anyone can sustain it anyway.

[mensa-maniac]

Ok, Dan, I agree with what you say, however, what if at the time of the small white lie, problems are created from that little white lie, even if it seems to be the correct thing to do at the time.

To lie is to get one's self out of judgement.

I admit to telling small white lies at one time in my life, I must have been rebellious towards my mother at that time, because telling the truth wasn't getting me anywhere except for trouble. I found that when I lied, people believed the lie, which encouraged me to lie more, when I spoke the truth, people didn't believe the truth. They chose to believe a dirty lie over the truth. This explains why lying creates confusion, because the liar can't remember what they lied about, because of the quantity of lies.

That was my lying phase in which I have outgrown from. Now, I tell the truth regardless of what anyone thinks. If they don't believe my truth, that's their loss! My defending myself is the truth of my truth.

[Jason]

"Radical honesty" is for fools. And I don't really believe anyone can sustain it anyway.

The radical honesty that I know, the one championed by Brad Blanton, isn't about telling the truth at all times and in all circumstances. It's more about analyzing the affects, the pros and the cons of honesty and lying on people's lives. The conclusion that Brad reaches from this analysis is that many of the lies that people habitually engage in, are overall damaging to a fulfilling and healthy life - the exact opposite outcome that most people are seeking with these lies.

[Dan Rowden]

Well, the habitual unconscious lies people tell are certainly unhealthy, so I'm agreement there. The important thing is that one brings some consciousness and awareness of causality into the picture.

[Jason]

When you're passing through the checkout at a shop, and the checkout person says "Hi, how are you today?" or similar, what's your typical response?

[Gurrb]

if you unknowingly tell a lie (believe it to be true), are you lying? if you are, then we can never say with any sort of certainty that we do not lie. and on the flipside; you are not telling the truth, as you are ignorant to the truth. applying logic of opposites, you must be lying or more suitably being ignorantly 'truthful'.

on a side note, i think it is impossible to always be 100% truthful and also be happy.

you lie to yourself everyday when you tell yourself you have meaning.

[Tomas]

You lie to yourself everyday when you tell yourself you have meaning.

Wonderful, I'll tell my 11-year old to take a hike. I'm gonna pursue philosophy the Genius Forums way .. hell or high water.

[Animus]

When you're passing through the checkout at a shop, and the checkout person says "Hi, how are you today?" or similar, what's your typical response?

"Thats a question I've been attempting to answer all of my life. How am I today? What is the nature of our existence? When I figure it out I'll answer your question."

Although if someone asks "How's it going?" I usually say "It goes. How? I don't know."

[Jason]

"Thats a question I've been attempting to answer all of my life. How am I today? What is the nature of our existence? When I figure it out I'll answer your question."

Although if someone asks "How's it going?" I usually say "It goes. How? I don't know."

You really answer like that? If you do, I'm impressed.

[Dan Rowden]

When you're passing through the checkout at a shop, and the checkout person says "Hi, how are you today?" or similar, what's your typical response?

I stopped trying to be witty and interesting and truthful about such things long ago. They are just robotically doing their job so I tend to just say "Not bad, yourself?"

It depends a bit on who the checkout person is, but generally that's all I can be bothered saying.

[Jason]

I stopped trying to be witty and interesting and truthful about such things long ago. They are just robotically doing their job so I tend to just say "Not bad, yourself?"

They may be robotically doing their job, but it still could be a small chance to elevate the human condition even slightly above its boring blind mediocrity. "Not bad, yourself" seems like completely unnecessary placation that adds support to the mindless bullshit. Someone could really be inspired by hearing a response like Animus has given.

It depends a bit on who the checkout person is, but generally that's all I can be bothered saying.

Half the time I don't even answer, but I look straight at them to make sure that they know that I am very intentionally not responding.

[Animus]

"Thats a question I've been attempting to answer all of my life. How am I today? What is the nature of our existence? When I figure it out I'll answer your question."

Although if someone asks "How's it going?" I usually say "It goes. How? I don't know."

You really answer like that? If you do, I'm impressed.

Either that or "Absolutely perfect!" something out of the ordinary. I don't always give some philosophical answer, but usually something that causes a pause. Although, like Dan says the responses are usually robotic and if you don't just give a canned response you might have to answer some questions. Generally people don't want to hear that I'm doing perfect, especially since by their standards I have no life. It makes no sense that I would be content with being virtually nobody in their status hierarchy. So it leaves them sort of flippant towards my proclaimed state of being, either I'm lying or I'm delusional. The other thing is, talking to me opens up channels to suicidal thought patterns quite frequently. You know, its like they think they should be happy without anything, but they find that they can't be, so they think they should just end it all. Heh, I don't know what they are hoping to find in all of this, perhaps a constant state of euphoria, but I don't see that as being realistic or actually good. My proclaimed state of happiness is more of an ultimate submission to reality and acceptance of what is, just the whole fact of existence itself is pretty damn cool. The way I see it I already got the prize by being born, so there is no need to strive for anything else. But this prize carries with it a degree of discomfort, borne from the illusion of separation. That's all necessary to make it work, you know, so thinking in a broader picture this way causes me to realize how important suffering is. I can be an obscure individual who is occasionally found in restaurants reading books, but otherwise rarely makes a public appearance. A person with virtually no friends or involvement in social organizations outside of work. There is nothing wrong with that in my view, I could be all caught up in family life attending to my biological experiments and sexual dependencies, but thats not categorically better, its arguably worse. There is just no convincing most people of that, values flipped on their head and stuff. You know I find it persisently ironic that biblical scripture supports this view of marriage as basically a last resort cop-out for the weak willed, those "unable to refrain from sexual indulgence". Yet Christendom by and large worships marriage and its traditional family. But ya, convincing people of this stuff is pretty far-fetched.