Vaccines: Friend of Foe?
- Ryan Rudolph
- Posts: 2490
- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:32 am
- Location: British Columbia, Canada
Vaccines: Friend of Foe?
Throughout the last 100 years, modern medicine has provided vaccines for smallpox, measles, polio, mumbs, flu, rabbis, rubella and many more in order to protect people from infection.
However, there is a growing divide between those who believe vaccines are beneficial and those who believe they are harmful.
Some attempt to draw relationships between vaccines and many disorders such as autism, multiple sclerosis, and other neural disorders.
So what is your opinion? state your evidence.
However, there is a growing divide between those who believe vaccines are beneficial and those who believe they are harmful.
Some attempt to draw relationships between vaccines and many disorders such as autism, multiple sclerosis, and other neural disorders.
So what is your opinion? state your evidence.
Re: Vaccines: Friend of Foe?
Ryan Rudolph wrote:Throughout the last 100 years, modern medicine has provided vaccines for smallpox, measles, polio, mumbs, flu, rabbis, rubella and many more in order to protect people from infection.
However, there is a growing divide between those who believe vaccines are beneficial and those who believe they are harmful.
Some attempt to draw relationships between vaccines and many disorders such as autism, multiple sclerosis, and other neural disorders.
So what is your opinion? state your evidence.
i've had all the vaccines except flu....i rarely get sick...rarely get a flu or a cold....i do not have MS,autism, or any other neural disorder that i'm aware of.
i take vitamins (irregularly)
i drink vast quanitites of Japanese green tea (matcha)
presently taking Olive Leaf extract (to combat viruses... Just in case)
i am semi-vegetarian (maybe eat meat once a week)
regularly eat Indian food (lots of beans,dahl,spices, rice (brown/basmati)
lot's of veggies/fruit
my opinion is...i think your body has the capabilites to fight off all intruders when healthy....
i've been exposed to a lot of germs being in the medical field for many years
i think my body has built up a good resistance to germs
so far...so good.
my downfall is that i love to smoke (maybe 3-4 cigs a day on average)
i smoke 100% pure tobacco (no additives)
that's why i combat the negative effects with vitamins & green tea
Japan has the highest rate of smokers per capita in the world...and the lowest rate of lung cancer
i would generally give vaccines the benefit of the doubt....
i also recently got asthma (about 5 years ago)
so i;m a prime target for the H1N1....i'm also a veteran and when the clinic get's the vaccine they will call me
as of now we still do not have the H1N1 available
i am hesitant to get it tho....but i probebly will anyways....
what the hell....
Re: Vaccines: Friend of Foe?
I agree that people should be protected from infection by rabbis -- and Judaism in general, but that is subject for another thread.Ryan Rudolph wrote:Throughout the last 100 years, modern medicine has provided vaccines for smallpox, measles, polio, mumbs, flu, rabbis, rubella and many more in order to protect people from infection.
Regarding vaccines, the evidence seems to indicate that much of what is shot into babies is harmful to many of them. And certainly the swine flu vaccine has gotten bad press, and I suspect it isn't safe to take. I won't volunteer for that one.
Re: Vaccines: Friend of Foe?
You gotta realize that vaccination is not solely a personal thing. From the epidemiologists point of view disease a communal/global phenomena. While vaccines have the capacity in rare cases to cause death or serious illness, the complications caused by the actual disease are far worse generally.
Here is the thing, if a disease like H1N1 propagates throughout the environment, it has more opportunity to mutate. If all but one person gets the vaccine and H1N1 mutates in that person, it has the potential of rendering the vaccine useless as a completely new strain of the disease will not respond to the vaccine.
From a personal point-of-view it is too easy to be scared off by one-off incidences like the 1976 H1N1 event. Or to follow blindly the government's suggestions. Some vaccines are rushed and not properly tested, H1N1 vacc is one of these, and so was Gardasil.
Vaccination and Autism? No such connection exists. Vaccination and Guillian-Barre Syndrome? Yes, but not since 1976 in as measurable way. However, if H1N1 reaches epidemic proportions I guarantee there will be forced vaccinations.
Here is the thing, if a disease like H1N1 propagates throughout the environment, it has more opportunity to mutate. If all but one person gets the vaccine and H1N1 mutates in that person, it has the potential of rendering the vaccine useless as a completely new strain of the disease will not respond to the vaccine.
From a personal point-of-view it is too easy to be scared off by one-off incidences like the 1976 H1N1 event. Or to follow blindly the government's suggestions. Some vaccines are rushed and not properly tested, H1N1 vacc is one of these, and so was Gardasil.
Vaccination and Autism? No such connection exists. Vaccination and Guillian-Barre Syndrome? Yes, but not since 1976 in as measurable way. However, if H1N1 reaches epidemic proportions I guarantee there will be forced vaccinations.
Re: Vaccines: Friend of Foe?
I wonder, would this be the first in U.S. history forced vaccination for all citizens? Wonder how they could enforce it.Animus wrote:if H1N1 reaches epidemic proportions I guarantee there will be forced vaccinations.
Re: Vaccines: Friend of Foe?
http://vimeo.com/7298827
I just watched this. Well worth seeing (and reading). She speaks of the Swine Flu Virus actually being less virulent than the average year's winter flu. She speaks of how it was created in a lab by utilizing the 1918 Spanish Flu from an exhumed Inuiit indian. She speaks of tainted vaccine doses shipped to Romania, discovered by chance with deadly results on test animals. She speaks of a drastic redefinition of the term pandemic by WHO this year, which has led to countries declaring the current fairly benign flu a pandemic, and leading the way to mandatory vaccinations.
In Spanish, with subtitles.TERESA FORCADES, doctor in Public Health, reflects on the history, and gives scientific data, of A type flu and lists all the irregularities related to this subject.
She explains the consequences of the declaration of a PANDEMIC, the political consequences from this declaration and makes a proposal to keep calm. She calls for an urgent activation of all legal mechanism and the participation of all citizens in this matter.
I just watched this. Well worth seeing (and reading). She speaks of the Swine Flu Virus actually being less virulent than the average year's winter flu. She speaks of how it was created in a lab by utilizing the 1918 Spanish Flu from an exhumed Inuiit indian. She speaks of tainted vaccine doses shipped to Romania, discovered by chance with deadly results on test animals. She speaks of a drastic redefinition of the term pandemic by WHO this year, which has led to countries declaring the current fairly benign flu a pandemic, and leading the way to mandatory vaccinations.
- 1456200423
- Posts: 338
- Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:07 am
- Location: Earth, Australia
Re: Vaccines: Friend of Foe?
Vaccine Ingredients: Formaldehyde, Aspartame,
Mercury, Etc.
http://www.novaccine.com/vaccine-ingredients/
http://www.rense.com/general59/vvac.htm
How to make your own flu vaccine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIjm9w_-tNY
US Mainstream Media Reports... Mercury is good for you!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZArebYZzdc&NR
On the other hand...
Joseph Moshe Standoff 1/4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giavJC7Q-TM
Mercury, Etc.
http://www.novaccine.com/vaccine-ingredients/
http://www.rense.com/general59/vvac.htm
Code: Select all
2 - Phenoxyethanol
2-(ethylmercurithio) benzoic acid
3-0 Desacyl-4 Monophosphoryl lipid A
Acetic acid
Acid hydrolysate (casein)
African green monkey kidney cells
alcohol
alpha-tocopheryl
Aluminum
Aluminum adjuvant
Aluminum hydroxide
Aluminum hydroxyphosphate sulfate
Aluminum oxide
Aluminum phosphate
Aluminum potassium sulfate
Amino acids
Aminoglycoside (antibiotic)
Ammonium sulfate
Amphotericin B
Anhydrous disodium phosphate
Arginine
Arum triphyllum
AS03
AS04
Ascorbic acid
Aspartame
Bacillus anthracis
Belladonna
Benzethonium chloride
Benzonase
Beta-propiolactone
Boric acid
Bovine (cow) serum
Calcium carbonate
Calcium chloride
Casamino acids (casein)
Cephalin (antibiotic)
Chick embryo cells
Chinese hamster ovary cells
Chlortetracycline hydrochloride
Cholera virus
Citric acid
Dehydrate sodium hydrogen phosphate
Dextran
Dextrose
Dibutyl phthalate
Diethyl phthalate
Diethylether
Diphtheria CRM197 protein
Diphtheria formoltoxoid
Diphtheria toxoid
Disodium dehydrogenate phosphate
Disodium edentate (EDTA)
Disodium hydrogen phosphate
Disodium phosphate dehydrate
Disodium phosphate dihydrate
DL-á-tocopherol
Dog kidney cells
Dulbecco's Modified Eagle Medium
Egg protein
Erythromycin (antibiotic)
Ethylene glycol
Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid (EDTA)
Fatty-acid ester-based antifoam
Ferrum phosphoricum
Fetuin
Filamentous hemagglutinin (FHA)
Formaldehyde
Formalin
Galactose
Gelatin
Gentamicin Sulfate
Glutamate
Glutaraldehyde
Glycerine
Glycine
Glycol p-isooctylphenyl ether
Haemophilus influenzae B
Hemagglutinin culture flu viruses of type A(H1N1), A(H3N2)
Hemin chloride
Hexadecyltrimethylammonium bromide
Histidine
HPV-16 L1 protein
HPV-18 L1 protein
Human albumin
Human cell Line: PER C6
Human diploid cells (WI-38)
Human Diploid cells: MRC5 proteins
Hydrochloric acid
Hydrocortisone
Hydrogen succinate
Hydrolyzed porcine gelatin
Hydroxypropyl methycellulose phthalate
Influenza A virus hemagglutinin
Influenza B virus hemagglutinin
Influenzae polysaccharides
Iron oxide red ci77491
Iron oxide yellow ci77492
Isotonic phosphate buffered saline
Isotonic saline
Isotonic sodium chloride solution
Kanamycin (antibiotic)
L-alanine
L-histidine hydrochloride
Lactose
Latex
Lecithin
Lipoprotein OspA
Liquid light paraffin
M phosphate- buffered saline
Magnesium chloride hexahydrate
Magnesium stearate
Magnesium sulfate
Mannitol
Marcol 82 (R)
Medium 199
Meningococcal Group C oligosaccharide
Meningococcal group C polysaccharide
Meningococcal polysaccharide serogroup Y
Meningococcal polysaccharides W135
Mercurius solubilis
Mercury
Mertiolyat
MF59
Mineral oil
Mineral salts
Minimum Essential Medium
Monopotassium glutamate
Monopotassium phosphate
Monosodium Glutamate (MSG)
Monosodium phosphate
Montanide 80 (R)
Mouse brain cells
Neisseria meningitides OMPC
Neomycin
Neomycin sulphate
Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide
Nonylphenol ethoxylate
Octoxynol-10 (or 9)
Ovalbumin (egg)
Pertactin
Pertussis toxin
Pertussis Toxoid
Phenol
Phospholipids lecithin
Pneumococcal Polysaccharide(s)
Polyalcohols
Polydimethylsiloxane
Polyethylene glycol
Polygeline
Polymyxin B
Polyoxidonium
Polyribosylribitol phosphate
Polysorbate 20
Polysorbate 80
Potassium chloride
Potassium dehydrogenate phosphate
Potassium dihydrogen phosphate
Potassium diphosphate
Potassium glutamate
Potassium monophosphate
Potassium phosphate
Potassium phosphate- monobasic
propagated in Vero cells
Protein contaminants
Protein hydrolysate
Rabies antigen
Rabies: Human Immunoglobulin Antibodies
Recombinant HBsAg protein
Saline solution
Salmonella Typhi bacteria
Silicon
Sodium acetate
Sodium bicarbonate
Sodium Borate
Sodium carbonate
Sodium chloride
Sodium citrate
Sodium deoxycholate
Sodium dihydrogen phosphate dehydrate
Sodium EDTA
Sodium hydrogen carbonate
Sodium hydroxide
Sodium phosphate
Sodium phosphate- dibasic anhydrous
Sodium phosphate-dibasic dodecahydrate
Sodium phosphate-monobasic
Sodium taurodeoxycholate
Sodium tetraborate decahydrate
Sorbitane mono-oleate
Sorbitol
Soy peptone
Soy protein
Squalene
Stopper vial may contain dry latex rubber
Streptomycin
Succinic Acid
Sucrose
Superficial glycoproteins (gemagglutinin and neyroamynidasa)
Tetanus
Tetanus formoltoxoid
Tetanus protein
Tetanus toxin
Tetanus toxoid
Thimerosal
Titanium dioxide
Tri(n)butylphosphate
Triton N101
Triton X-100
Trometamol
Tryspin
Vibrio polysaccharide antigen
Virus: Coxiella burnetii organisms, killed
Virus: Hepatitis A
Virus: Hepatitis B
Virus: Human papillomavirus (denatured) (HPV)
Virus: Inactivated whole avian influenza
Virus: Influenza
Virus: Influenza virus antigens
Virus: Japanese encephalitis (JE)
Virus: Measles
Virus: Mumps
Virus: polio
Virus: Rabies
Virus: Respiratory Syncitial Virus (RSV)
Virus: Rotavirus (live, attenuated)
Virus: Rubella
Virus: SV40
Virus: Vaccinia (smallpox)
Virus: Varicella (chickenpox)
Virus: Yellow fever
Xanthan gum
Yeast
Yeast extracthttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIjm9w_-tNY
US Mainstream Media Reports... Mercury is good for you!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZArebYZzdc&NR
On the other hand...
Joseph Moshe Standoff 1/4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giavJC7Q-TM
Last edited by 1456200423 on Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:56 pm, edited 5 times in total.
veritas odium parit
- divine focus
- Posts: 611
- Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:48 pm
Re: Vaccines: Friend of Foe?
I wish they would try.Carl G wrote:I wonder, would this be the first in U.S. history forced vaccination for all citizens? Wonder how they could enforce it.Animus wrote:if H1N1 reaches epidemic proportions I guarantee there will be forced vaccinations.
eliasforum.org/digests.html
Re: Vaccines: Friend of Foe?
Why's that? Because you love a good police action?
_______________
people, too many.
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people, too many.
- Ryan Rudolph
- Posts: 2490
- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:32 am
- Location: British Columbia, Canada
Re: Vaccines: Friend of Foe?
Just thought I'd comment:
There is a growing body of evidence to suggest that vaccines could be linked to certain neurological disorders such as autism, Multiple sclerosis, and many others.
Many neurologists suggest that the problem with the vaccine is they cause a massive immune response in the individual, and in particular the immune system acts within the brain as well. On one hand, some evidence suggests that the biproducts of a massive immune response creates bio-chemicals that cause pathology within the brain itself.
And on the other hand, evidence suggests that women in their third trimester are vulnerable because the baby's brain immune system is also involved in the construction of their neurology, and if a massive immune response is caused by the vaccine then the immune system could be diverted from its other job - construction of the baby's brain, which results in pathology.
Some scientists suggest pregnant women who get the flu are just as likely to have babies born with neural disorders caused by the immune response, but only if the infection happens in a critical time of neural development (third trimester). This might explain why it is so difficult to draw a link between vaccines and autism, it may have more to do solely with the immune system within the brain.
However, this is quite new science, and the details are not listed here, just the basic idea. Not sure if there's any truth to it or not...
There is a growing body of evidence to suggest that vaccines could be linked to certain neurological disorders such as autism, Multiple sclerosis, and many others.
Many neurologists suggest that the problem with the vaccine is they cause a massive immune response in the individual, and in particular the immune system acts within the brain as well. On one hand, some evidence suggests that the biproducts of a massive immune response creates bio-chemicals that cause pathology within the brain itself.
And on the other hand, evidence suggests that women in their third trimester are vulnerable because the baby's brain immune system is also involved in the construction of their neurology, and if a massive immune response is caused by the vaccine then the immune system could be diverted from its other job - construction of the baby's brain, which results in pathology.
Some scientists suggest pregnant women who get the flu are just as likely to have babies born with neural disorders caused by the immune response, but only if the infection happens in a critical time of neural development (third trimester). This might explain why it is so difficult to draw a link between vaccines and autism, it may have more to do solely with the immune system within the brain.
However, this is quite new science, and the details are not listed here, just the basic idea. Not sure if there's any truth to it or not...
Re: Vaccines: Friend of Foe?
You know Vitamin C can cause birth defects too.
http://sara1hays.files.wordpress.com/20 ... opment.jpg
http://www.purdue.edu/rem/ih/terat.htm
http://www.snopes.com/photos/signs/pregnant.asp
http://sara1hays.files.wordpress.com/20 ... opment.jpg
http://www.purdue.edu/rem/ih/terat.htm
http://www.snopes.com/photos/signs/pregnant.asp
Re: Vaccines: Friend of Foe?
So, Animus, you're basically in favor of swine flu vaccine, or any vaccine your government tells you to take, even if unsafe, even if the risk is greater than the risk from the disease, and even if you have no legal recourse if the effects go awry? Is that what you are implying?
Re: Vaccines: Friend of Foe?
No, I'm saying that epidemiologists tend to look at disease in the context of community. Probably government views it the same way. Individuals look at it in an ego-centric way. I haven't gotten the vaccine and probably won't, but I'm not opposed to it. The chances of me contracting H1N1 and dieing from it are probably greater than the chance of problems arising from the vaccine. Although that is not an impossibility, generally side-effects like GBS only affect 1 in 100,000 or more. H1N1 does not seem to be a bad virus if you are in good health. I'm not in great health but I can probably handle it. That's fine for me, but what of the people I expose to it in the meanwhile? Are they healthy enough to handle it? I suppose that is their choice to get the shot.Carl G wrote:So, Animus, you're basically in favor of swine flu vaccine, or any vaccine your government tells you to take, even if unsafe, even if the risk is greater than the risk from the disease, and even if you have no legal recourse if the effects go awry? Is that what you are implying?
You know its a good idea to get a Hep A/ Hep B shot once in a while (10 years?) because they are pretty common. Tetanus is not good, lock-jaw and all that. Perhaps H1N1 isn't as imminent and the vaccine under-tested, but there is too much paranoia over vaccines. Sure there are risks involved, but there are also risks involved with eating. More people are going to die from choking on their lunch than a typical vaccine. This is not to say that accidents don't happen, they do as in the 1976 H1N1 vaccine. But there is no clear Obey/Disobey or Yes/No answer to the issue. Its not an issue between me and the government, its an issue between me and my knowledge of the vaccine. If the government forces me to take it thats something different. But I'll be evaluating the scenario as it plays out.
- divine focus
- Posts: 611
- Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:48 pm
Re: Vaccines: Friend of Foe?
I like a good fight. :)Carl G wrote:Why's that? Because you love a good police action?
_______________
people, too many.
Flexing muscles...
eliasforum.org/digests.html
Re: Vaccines: Friend of Foe?
:)Carl: I wonder, would this be the first in U.S. history forced vaccination for all citizens? Wonder how they could enforce it.
divine focus: I wish they would try.
Carl: Why's that? Because you love a good police action?
divine focus: I like a good fight. :)
Homeopathy, in principle, is sound reasoning. I am simply uncertain of both the soundness or the principles of mainstream western 'crisis' medicine. Vaccine only arrive in this area last week, when students at uni had already put 15-20% absence holes in nearly every classroom. I wouldn't have gotten the vaccine anyway. But I have gotten the flu. I trust my own body's capacity to homeopath the virus I currently undergo. If I had young children - and they could die from it - I'm sure things would not be so simple.
This is correct. It is nothing like the Hong Kong flu that nearly flattened me in my early 20's when health would have been assumed to be stronger.Animus: H1N1 does not seem to be a bad virus if you are in good health.
There is fever, and there is a pretty uncomfortable dry, burning, repetitive cough, and of course, your body will ache for it and your nose will run for it and the world will seem just a little on the other side of a translucent curtain. I've done drugs in my youth that made me feel weirder and more incapacitated than this . . . .
- divine focus
- Posts: 611
- Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:48 pm
Re: Vaccines: Friend of Foe?
I have something... can't say what it is, but I guess I asked for it.Pye wrote:I wouldn't have gotten the vaccine anyway. But I have gotten the flu. I trust my own body's capacity to homeopath the virus I currently undergo.
Whatever. My body's invincible. :)
eliasforum.org/digests.html
Re: Vaccines: Friend of Foe?
:) yes.divine focus: My body's a champ.
"just sit back; 'en-joy' the ride . . . ."
Re: Vaccines: Friend of Foe?
That, too! :)divine focus: My body's invincible. :)
-
Carmel
Re: Vaccines: Friend of Foe?
Pye:
I am simply uncertain of both the soundness or the principles of mainstream western 'crisis' medicine.
Carmel:
As am I. From what I understand, the mortality rate of H1N1 is far lower than that of "ordinary" seasonal flu.
Health organizations may have been overreactionary regarding H1N1, possibly for fear of the virus mutating, as Animus said.
Pye:
I wouldn't have gotten the vaccine anyway. But I have gotten the flu.
Carmel:
I have it too. I'm on day 4, so the worst of it is over, just some residual minor symptoms.
We had a vaccine shortage too, but I wouldn't have gotten it either. I don't like the idea of putting known neurotoxins into my body; I'd rather let my immune system take care of it... and it is... :)
I am simply uncertain of both the soundness or the principles of mainstream western 'crisis' medicine.
Carmel:
As am I. From what I understand, the mortality rate of H1N1 is far lower than that of "ordinary" seasonal flu.
Health organizations may have been overreactionary regarding H1N1, possibly for fear of the virus mutating, as Animus said.
Pye:
I wouldn't have gotten the vaccine anyway. But I have gotten the flu.
Carmel:
I have it too. I'm on day 4, so the worst of it is over, just some residual minor symptoms.
We had a vaccine shortage too, but I wouldn't have gotten it either. I don't like the idea of putting known neurotoxins into my body; I'd rather let my immune system take care of it... and it is... :)
Re: Vaccines: Friend of Foe?
This was some consolation to me, Carmel, for days 2 to 3 really started to suck. Yes, day 4, on the mend . . .Carmel writes: I have it too. I'm on day 4, so the worst of it is over, just some residual minor symptoms.
Re: Vaccines: Friend of Foe?
I'm on my 10th day of being sick. I have my sense of smell back and am no longer stuffed up and sneezing. I've been on the upward swing for a couple days now but I still have a lingering cough thats slow to go away. I probably set myself back a few days on the recovery due to some "extracurricular" activities :/
Re: Vaccines: Friend of Foe?
Holy shit, are you serious?Pye wrote: Homeopathy, in principle, is sound reasoning.
Wikipedia wrote: Homeopathic remedies are prepared by serial dilution with shaking by forceful striking, which homeopaths term "succussion," after each dilution under the assumption that this increases the effect of the treatment. Homeopaths call this process "potentization". Dilution often continues until none of the original substance remains.
Re: Vaccines: Friend of Foe?
Screw Wikipedia.
Homeopathy is the small dosing of toxins in order to build up natural immunity to the self-same.
That's exactly what a vaccine is.
Homeopathy is the small dosing of toxins in order to build up natural immunity to the self-same.
That's exactly what a vaccine is.
Re: Vaccines: Friend of Foe?
ok.Pye wrote:Screw Wikipedia.
From: http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRel ... homeo.html
(and check out the comments at the bottom of that page!)Many proponents claim that homeopathic products resemble vaccines because both provide a small stimulus that triggers an immune response. This comparison is not valid. The amounts of active ingredients in vaccines are much greater and can be measured. Moreover, immunizations produce antibodies whose concentration in the blood can be measured, but high-dilution homeopathic products produce no measurable response. In addition, vaccines are used preventively, not for curing symptoms.
Re: Vaccines: Friend of Foe?
okay. I accept the nuances. I meant to speak in principle alone.
