"A loner"

[keenobserver]

He is being as misunderstood in death as he probably was in life.

Actually, keenobserver attempting to justify the killings is exactly what Cho would've wanted. In his videos he talks about being a martyr just like the Columbine kids.

If that were so I would have wiped out a multitude by now, but the truth is, if you must know, in this regard I'm about as passive and anti-violence as they come. Though I can see possible benefits of certain events and acts i by no means condone them, necessarily. I would never expect someone else to do my fighting for me, normally, if ever pushed to harmful action. I have always succeeded in resolving things with words, wisdom and understanding, and reckon violence might be more effective perhaps in merely .001% of cases.
Violence, American style, is a sign of the lack of inteligence and understanding of people, and almost always an egotistical striving that should be beneath any decent human being.
That American governments are indeed so aggressive and use violence to solve problems so often suggests we're being led and governed by effectively criminal minded men and women, and those are the likes of whom Cho refers to in his rantings.
He's right to think some are animals deserving of death, but I'm not convinced he'd been much any better in serving in their own shoes.

[sschaula]

Nat,

That's a typical Republican response (and I mean "Republican" in the larger sense). "You're excusing it, you're justifying it, you're rationalizing it," etc. I don't think that is what keenobserver is doing and I know it's not what I'm doing.

I know it's not what you're doing. Elizabeth came close. I believe keenobserver was doing it.

Frankly, I'm not comfortable with the tone of keenobserver's statements either, because I think his mental state is questionable in its own right. I don't think he's justifying it, although I do think he shares the attacker's mindset to an alarming extent. At one time in my life, after undergoing abuse and ostracization, I shared some of that mindset as well. Understanding is not justifying.

Like you said - it's in the tone.

Some people think that all we need to focus on is the fact that Cho was crazy and evil, and it is acceptable to act as if those trying to understand his motives are sympathizing with him. Not so. I think everybody here realizes he was both crazy and evil. He massacred 32 people. We're all well aware of the monstrous and inexcusable nature of these crimes.

I don't think keenobserver realizes that Cho was crazy and evil. He (she?) seems to share the exact same cause as Cho, and can see exactly why it made Cho do that. This isn't simply understanding. It's more sympathizing ...and that's very close to justifying.

Nobody wants to have this guy over for dinner. Had he survived, I would have supported the death penalty in his case.

I would've had him over for dinner. I don't like people that talk incessantly, and I could relate to what I heard on the roommate interviews about when he looked into one of the girl's eyes he saw promiscuity. I can look a person in the eye and see who they are as well. I can relate to his shyness...and I really think what he needed could've just been a roughing up. Someone should've brought him out of his shell. But yeah, I see your point.

But saying he was crazy and evil and ending the discussion there is not enough. That sort of approach gives us no insight into the mindset of these attackers and no possibility of preventing future attacks. Anyone can see that he was nuts. That's a no-brainer. Far more challenging is to understand the role of society and the environment in these things. That role is still far from clear, but the first step is to listen to what the killer himself has to say about his motives.

I agree with you here. I don't want to count out the role of the college students, or Americans in general. I simply want to stop accusations which have no merit.

I don't want to see someone blame the girls he stalked, or his suitemates or roommates when there's nothing they did wrong. When they actually tried to help him out.

People don't just decide to become crazy and evil, nor do they become that way randomly. I suspect it's going to end up being schizophrenic tendencies, molestation, social ostracism, or all of the above. A deadly combination in which mental illness combined with ongoing peer rejection and possibly other forms of abuse to push a fragile mind past the breaking point.

While nothing is actually random, I do think that what determines who will make the choices and take the steps towards becoming a killer is very close to random. We can't predict it based on anything. Everything in this entire universe causes that person to become a killer. It's not simply what you listed above. A contributing factor could be the way the doctor who delivered him into the world first looked at him. Or maybe nothing to do with a personal experience of his own, but who knows, maybe the flapping of a butterflys wings laid the causal groundwork for him to go this route.

It doesn't hurt to try and figure it out. I'm just saying, it kind of is random.

Katy,

Sadistic snobs
Not enough you brats
You snobs

References to Columbine - they were against everyone, not specific people...

What about the specific ideas, about someone making him bleed, or crucifying him, the gold necklace and mercedez, etc? It really sounds to me like one person made him this way.

I see your point, by the way. What about these questions, though?

All of the councelors and psychologists who spoke with him or saw him in the hospital say that he was not schizophrenic. In fact, almost no serial killers or mass murderers turn out to be schizophrenic. It gets said so much because it makes the killers "the other"

Well it was kind of odd hearing about him call himself "question mark" to his roommate on the phone, trying to pretend to be his own imaginary brother. Or how about his imaginary girlfriend, "Jelly"? That's not necessarily schizophrenia, but it's not sanity either.

[Katy]

Add some apparent schizophrenic tendencies (my diagnosis, not based on media reports)

Most of the time I think you're pretty good at psychology, but with several professionals saying you're wrong, and the fact that you don't have any information about him that isn't filtered through the media, I'm afraid I just don't think you can make this diagnosis. The media is trying to paint him as an outsider because that makes us feel good to know that we're not like that outsider loonie who did this. So they're playing up anything abnormal about him. But listen to his roommate who repeatedly denies thinking he would do anything violent...

What about the specific ideas, about someone making him bleed, or crucifying him, the gold necklace and mercedez, etc? It really sounds to me like one person made him this way.

Well, unless we are to assume that he was actually crucified at one point, let's look at the Biblical crucifiction. Masses of people jeering at him and cheering for him to die. Choosing Barabas over him en masse... that's a pretty clear reference to a lot of people, too.

And gold chains and mercedez are pretty typical references to an extravagent lifestyle in general rather than specific things that belong to a specific person.

[Jamesh]

Whatever the (infinite) facts might be, there would be no doubt the media executives are elated.

[sschaula]

Nat,

Having been in dark places mentally at times in my own life, it makes perfect sense to me. In my view, he's talking to those who ignored, dismissed, invalidated, and ostracized him. He's talking to those who never made any effort to include him in anything beyond an occasional token conversation initiated out of what must have been pity. He's talking to those who lived what he saw as a "hedonistic" life all around him while he felt isolated and non-existent, cut off, powerless, and hopeless. He's talking to those who enjoyed all sorts of things that seemed permanently out of his reach. Add some apparent schizophrenic tendencies (my diagnosis, not based on media reports) and what appears to be a messianic/martyr complex to the mix, and you have a recipe for trouble. It's also possible that something like molestation or a similar emotional trauma might have set the stage for his distorted thinking many years ago.

I can see that as well, having been in dark places mentally, myself. But what throws me off are the hints of bisexuality and molestation in his plays, and also in his videos how they seem directed at one person (despite speaking to everyone sometimes in plural).

Necessary disclaimer: None of this "justifies" what he did or excuses it in any way. He should have recognized his problems and sought help on a consistent basis. He failed to do that, so regardless of any contributing factors, the blood is on no one's hands but his own.

Only in America do you have to add that disclaimer.

Not necessarily...only for a nitpicking prick like me. :)

keenobserver,

If that were so I would have wiped out a multitude by now, but the truth is, if you must know, in this regard I'm about as passive and anti-violence as they come. Though I can see possible benefits of certain events and acts i by no means condone them, necessarily. I would never expect someone else to do my fighting for me, normally, if ever pushed to harmful action. I have always succeeded in resolving things with words, wisdom and understanding, and reckon violence might be more effective perhaps in merely .001% of cases.
Violence, American style, is a sign of the lack of inteligence and understanding of people, and almost always an egotistical striving that should be beneath any decent human being.
That American governments are indeed so aggressive and use violence to solve problems so often suggests we're being led and governed by effectively criminal minded men and women, and those are the likes of whom Cho refers to in his rantings.
He's right to think some are animals deserving of death, but I'm not convinced he'd been much any better in serving in their own shoes.

Well this sounds quite a bit more sensible than your earlier posts.

[Unidian]

All of the councelors and psychologists who spoke with him or saw him in the hospital say that he was not schizophrenic. In fact, almost no serial killers or mass murderers turn out to be schizophrenic. It gets said so much because it makes the killers "the other"

Perhaps. But clients don't always reveal everything to doctors, particularly when they are referred involuntarily, as Cho was. I've viewed the videos as well as other evidence and I think certain schizophrenic elements were present. The following are some of the most notable, in my view:

• * Imaginary girlfriend named "Jelly"
  
  * Paranoid, everyone out to destroy and "crucify" him
  
  * Religious/messianic/martyr complex
  
  * Delusions of grandeur

I think it's likely other diagnostic criteria will be met on further analysis.

I realize that any diagnosis will be bad news for all others with a similar diagnosis. But that's just the way it goes. It's already been extremely bad news for anyone who is of a solitary disposition and/or who holds ideas critical of mainstream society. There are serious calls in the media to have such persons detained as potential shooters.

[sschaula]

Jamesh,

Funny how just a couple of days ago I was reading an article about how NBC was having the lowest ratings...

[keenobserver]

Instead of becoming tangled up in the details, concerned citizens ought to step back and take a wide view, look what is happening to this nation, again and again from here and from there. Time to accept responsibility and either change dramatically or shut up and stop complaining and watch it all melt away.

One thing I've noticed lately, on tv court shows, the female judges are scolding the wives and mothers, and advising them to behave more responsibly, as if they were grandparents or counselors. Its become that bad.

[Unidian]

Scott,

I can see that as well, having been in dark places mentally, myself. But what throws me off are the hints of bisexuality and molestation in his plays, and also in his videos how they seem directed at one person (despite speaking to everyone sometimes in plural).

Yes, both the molestation and sexual preference issues should be looked at carefully. Either or both could be involved. I'm not trying to suggest that ostracism by peers was the only important factor. In fact, in a crime of this magnitude, it probably wasn't. But I do think it's something that mainstream people need to be aware of, rather than taking the comforting view that this guy went apeshit nuts for no reason whatsoever and other people had nothing to do with it. If people take that kind of cop-out approach, there's little or no chance of preventing these things in the future.

[sschaula]

I won't accept responsibility for Cho killing these people. No one else should, except maybe the person who molested him, if someone did, as I suspect.

About that: I think the authorities should be looking into any math teachers that Cho had...

[sschaula]

Nat,

Agreed there.

[Katy]

Perhaps. But clients don't always reveal everything to doctors, particularly when they are referred involuntarily, as Cho was.

I don't think so. I've seen stories that say he was, as well as stories that say he wasn't, but if he was referred involuntarily, he could not have purchased his weapons legally, which he did. In addition, an involuntary committment cannot be "one or two days" - that short a time frame indicates that he voluntarily went.

But doctors have to get decent at figuring out what's going on that they're not being told, too. Especially with schizophrenia because patients might try to hide things, or they may simply not know that something is a symptom and not real (in fact not being able to make that diffrentiation is a part of the diagnosis).

I realize that any diagnosis will be bad news for all others with a similar diagnosis. But that's just the way it goes. It's already been extremely bad news for anyone who is of a solitary disposition and/or who holds ideas critical of mainstream society. There are serious calls in the media to have such persons detained as potential shooters.

Not to mention anyone Korean (or Chinese as they were originally saying before someone corrected that...) or foriegners.

I'm already seeing calls for the mentally ill to be rounded up, forced to hospitals, forced to take drugs regardless of what our doctors think, forced to be kept track of...

Personally, I think too big a deal is being made out of this. Last time something like this happened was 1966 (there have been under 10 incidents where more than two people have been murdered in a "school massacre" at the university level since then - they have all included fewer than 5 people, with the exception of Kent State)

One university level school massacre in 40 years... while the events themelves are a tragedy... it's not like we're in the middle of a national crisis over here where students are being mowed down on a regular basis.

[Unidian]

Katy,

Can you explain the imaginary girlfriend and brother, the paranoid ideation, the martyr complex, and the other delusions in terms of another diagnosis which better fits the evidence?

For the record, I'm not convinced that Cho suffered from full-blown schizophrenia, I just think that several aspects of the evidence suggest schizoid tendencies. Because the evidence is likely to remain inconclusive and Cho himself is dead, it will be difficult for anyone to reach a firm diagnosis, but I think we should be aware of our own potential biases and conflicts of interest in regard to avoiding certain suggestions. I don't like it that he was "a loner" with anti-society and anti-rich ideas for what should be obvious reasons, but that's what he was, whether I like it or not.

[Katy]

Katy,

Can you explain the imaginary girlfriend and brother, the paranoid ideation, the martyr complex, and the other delusions in terms of another diagnosis which better fits the evidence?

Yes, I can. The guy obviously has problems with girls since he got accused of stalking two of them. May be gay (from the play). How best to prevent people from thinking you're gay? Oh right! Have a girlfriend! I pretended to be a guy's girlfriend for a year so his mother wouldn't kick him out of the house for being gay... and the gay person who pretends to have a girlfriend is at least stereotypical enough that it made it onto Broadway (Avenue Q).

And paranoid ideation and martyr complex - you're talking about a guy who just killed two people when he made those videos. Uhm. Guess what? The police really are out to get him, and I suspect it would feel a lot like *everyone* is out to get him. You have to realize everything he's saying has to be filtered through he just killed two people - not exactly a small thing in anyone's life...

He's angry, scared, hurt, on one hell of an adrenaline rush, and god knows what else... it could make anyone paranoid.

He's about to kill himself. A lot of people want to be important and be remembered when they die. That's also cliche "I want to change the world" etc. That should also figure into how we read his words. He wants to be as important as the Columbine Kids and to influence people the way they influenced him. He's also hoping his death will actually change things or influence other people to change things.

In other words, I'm inclined to believe the professionals who have spoken to him rather than what the media wants us to see. You're still not taking into account the fact that we dont even have all of what he wrote, or even a small percentage of what he wrote, and we only know what his roommates/professors etc are willing to tell us now that he has done this. I could paint almost anyone I know with a severe mental illness if I wanted to.

I think we should be aware of our own potential biases and conflicts of interest in regard to avoiding certain suggestions. I don't like it that he was "a loner" with anti-society and anti-rich ideas for what should be obvious reasons, but that's what he was, whether I like it or not.

Yeah, I am well aware of the fact that being schizophrenic gives me reason to hope he wasn't because it makes my life worse if he was. Of course, the question should be turned on you, as well. If he's schizophrenic that minimizes the effect of his anti-society, anti-rich loner status.

I still think we should listen to the professionals.

[Jamesh]

No one else should, except maybe the person who molested him, if someone did, as I suspect.

There has been so much public discussion and mention of sexual abuse incidents over the last ten years, that I think such issues would come up often in plays written by Uni students.

Still I agree, it is something worthy of investigating further if more evidence than just the words in the play is uncovered. All the expected traits seem to be there. The bubbling constant resentment and distrust of others, in a loner personality, does seem to be something that is ever so common with those who have been abused (so TV has lead me to believe).

[Unidian]

Katy,

Yes, I can. The guy obviously has problems with girls since he got accused of stalking two of them. May be gay (from the play). How best to prevent people from thinking you're gay? Oh right! Have a girlfriend! I pretended to be a guy's girlfriend for a year so his mother wouldn't kick him out of the house for being gay... and the gay person who pretends to have a girlfriend is at least stereotypical enough that it made it onto Broadway (Avenue Q).

I don't think he had "problems with girls" because he was gay. Whether or not he was bisexual (as the plays might suggest), I think it's very likely that most of his seemingly bizarre interactions with girls stemmed from being a mentally disturbed social non-entity.

And paranoid ideation and martyr complex - you're talking about a guy who just killed two people when he made those videos. Uhm. Guess what? The police really are out to get him, and I suspect it would feel a lot like *everyone* is out to get him. You have to realize everything he's saying has to be filtered through he just killed two people - not exactly a small thing in anyone's life...

So, you think his ideas about everybody being against him were suddenly created after the first shootings and did not exist prior to them? To repeat your rather condescending question, "guess what?" I don't think so. I think this sort of reasoning demonstrates your willingness to engage in various mental gymnastics to avoid this guy having any signs of a diagnosis you happen to share.

Nobody's saying you're a shooter. But I'm not suddenly off-base about psychology just because it's an issue of personal significance to you. I'm as right this time as I usually am. He appeared to have marked schizoid tendencies, and that appearance is clear and almost undeniable in the evidence at hand.

Note the difference between our approaches here. I'm not denying that the guy apparently shared some of my views about social class and such just because that fact is deeply uncomfortable to me (and trust me, it is). Reality doesn't go away just because it has the potential to make us look bad or feel uncomfortable.

You're behaving in an understandable manner, but your reaction is also a function of basic human psychology. We always want to distance ourselves from things like this. "He wasn't like me." But he was like us in some ways. First and foremost, he was a human being. Secondly, he happened to share some of our psychological characteristics - in my case, certain views, and in your case, certain behaviors. Do I really have to mention where the imaginary girlfriend and brother connect? I'd rather not, but I won't sit here and be told I don't know what I'm talking about.

He's about to kill himself. A lot of people want to be important and be remembered when they die. That's also cliche "I want to change the world" etc. That should also figure into how we read his words. He wants to be as important as the Columbine Kids and to influence people the way they influenced him. He's also hoping his death will actually change things or influence other people to change things.

Agreed, but I don't think any of this undermines my suspicion of schizoid tendencies based on his writings and behaviors.

In other words, I'm inclined to believe the professionals who have spoken to him rather than what the media wants us to see.

And I reflexively believe the media? You know better than that.

As far as I'm concerned, the "professionals" who handled all aspects of his case ought to be summarily fired for malpractice and dereliction of duty. Here is a guy who was in obvious need of ongoing mental health services and he received few or none. Clearly, no one in the mental health community made a significant effort to get this guy any kind of substantial help beyond their standard worthless approach, which was to hand him a bottle of useless SSRI pills and send him on his way. Scandalously, the Insta-Check gun verification system did not even detect his involuntary mental health assessment when he purchased the guns used in the attack, which indicates additional incompetence at some or all stages of the process.

Incidentally, we can largely thank Ronnie RayGun for the current sorry state of the American mental health system, because he pretty much dismantled it so rich people could get a few dollars more in tax-cut handouts.

You're still not taking into account the fact that we dont even have all of what he wrote, or even a small percentage of what he wrote, and we only know what his roommates/professors etc are willing to tell us now that he has done this. I could paint almost anyone I know with a severe mental illness if I wanted to.

We have the videos! And it's no good explaining away his crazy state by pointing out that he had just killed two people, because that only shows he had just killed two people. You don't kill two people and then go nuts. That's backwards causality. Sensible causality suggests that you go nuts, then kill two people, in that order. And if you're really nuts, you make some "manifesto" videos for the media and then go kill 30 more.

Yeah, I am well aware of the fact that being schizophrenic gives me reason to hope he wasn't because it makes my life worse if he was. Of course, the question should be turned on you, as well. If he's schizophrenic that minimizes the effect of his anti-society, anti-rich loner status.

No good. I've made a point of clarifying from the beginning that I'm not running from the fact that he espouses some unconventional views that resemble my own to a certain extent. Does it make me look nuts by association? Yep, it sure does. That's just the way it goes. It's something I'll just have to learn to live with. It's no use pretending it isn't there.

I still think we should listen to the professionals.

Then you go ahead and do that. For me, this incident is one more huge indictment against "the professionals" and the monumental impotence and incompetence of the system. This simply should not have happened. There were all sorts of warning signs, and all sorts of opportunities to take a different road. As far as I can tell, about all "the professionals" did was what they pretty much always do - sent him off with a bottle of useless quack drugs. Good news for the pharmaceutical companies and the doctors, bad news for Virginia Tech.

This whole thing has a lot of people in a bad state of mind, and I'm one of them. It's a tragedy in every possible way, and the consequences it will have for all sorts of individuals throughout our society will be negative and far-reaching. I'm not even sure 9/11 bothered me this much. In a psychological sense, this hits a lot closer to home, and as much as I'd like to, I'm not going to run from that.

[keenobserver]

I dont get why they keep parading photos of the dead on my tv screen, again and again like they're some kind of war heros.
All they are famous for is for having terribly bad luck! To be consistent the news people ought to post photos of homeless street people and other misfortunate Americans. Why am i never informed when they die in a puddle of shit on the street?
Im sure Cho could answer this question with ease.

Its just shocking what they come up with these ignoramic reporters, now they're calling him narcisistic! The more they say the more I'm convinced the situation is hopeless. What a bunch of idiots. One mistake in judgement after another. Unbelievable.
One station claimed Cho's railing against Christianity which Ive seen no evidence of. Probably to take the emphasis off of his true gripes.
Shit! They're still asking why he did it!

He did it because no one gave a shit about him because he was too far unlike they are, "they" being anyone who gave no shit about him. He did it because they marked him in black for his weaknesses making it impossible to attract any decent friends. This is a common occurance in the great USA, but you never hear about it because few would give their life and go to such extreme for it to be known. Every similarly marginalized person owes him a huge debt of gratitude.
That is why that punk roommate had a smirk on his face.
Did you notice the leading questions put to them, did you notice the reporters bias.
You cant believe interviewed students, no one will tell you "we were put off by him and made it known, and no girls would associate with us if we associated with him anyway", they're not going to report the truth on national tv and look like the heels that they are.

[Unidian]

Nevermind.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

We have the videos! And it's no good explaining away his crazy state by pointing out that he had just killed two people, because that only shows he had just killed two people.

Isn't anyone looking at these videos with their eyes, and untainted by what the media suggests? Those videos were not made between the shootings. He probably did some final download or something during that time - and maybe a final video addition, but look at the videos themselves. Those were made over the period of at least a month, judging by the changes of location and stages of healing of acne marks on his face in the videos.

As for using the past tense, he intended the videos to be seen after he did what he did. He could have been speaking from that perspective - the perspective of the viewer rather than his present time of recording.
.

[DHodges]

One university level school massacre in 40 years... while the events themelves are a tragedy... it's not like we're in the middle of a national crisis over here where students are being mowed down on a regular basis.

If you consider, say, the roughly 40,000 people that die every year in automobile accidents, a few dozen dead is hardly worth mentioning. It is not statistically significant. This is the sort of thing people react to emotionally, not rationally.

[sschaula]

This isn't about deaths, it's about murders.

[sschaula]

keenobserver,

Every similarly marginalized person owes him a huge debt of gratitude.

This is where you cross the line.

[PyroSylph]

I've been watching MSNBC all this morning, and since the release of the videos/photos/play, numerous forensic psychiatrists have come out and said that Cho was most likely schizophrenic. Most notably they have evidenced his extreme social withdrawal, depersonalization, paranoia (introducing cancer in his head, for example), delusions and disorganized speech (among other things). They ruled out depresssion as the overall diagnosis (bouts of depression are an inclusive symptom of schizophrenia), because depression would not account for any of the symptoms lasting longer than one month or so. The only thing they could not all seem to agree on was whether he should be classified as a psychopath or a sociopath.

Cho's great-aunt disclosed that Cho was diagnosed with autism in '92 and that he was "very cold." She admitted that his mother was constantly worried about him:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/19/vtech. ... index.html

I keep seeing this word "loner" thrown around. Yeah, he was a loner. But we aren't talking about the guy who sits in the corner by himself and reads all day, or the guy who stays home on weekends while his roommates go to the ballgame. Cho would look people right in the eyes when they spoke to him, but he would never say anything in return. I saw one girl interviewed who was in his English class. On the day they were discussing one of Cho's plays, he was asked questions about the play by other students (as was required) and said nothing. He just stared at those who asked the questions or sat with his head down and his cap pulled down over his face and wearing sunglasses. This is not your typical loner, nor is it just being "shy."

And this didn't just start when he entered college. They have interviewed some of his high school classmates as well, and all of them say he acted the same way back then. If he had been taunted and treated badly in high school, someone would have stepped forward and said something by now. It took very little time after the Columbine shootings to discover how the two shooters were treated by their peers. If nothing else, the desire for publicity would pull someone forward to tell the tale. As yet, no one has been able to discover any instances where Cho was taunted, abused (physically, sexually or emotionally) or treated unfairly in any way.

One of the forensic psychiatrists just this morning said that those suffering from schizophrenia are frequently preoccupied with thoughts of sexual and physical abuse, often have imaginary friends and/or lovers, and will create separate personas in attempts to become part of the societal norm. The fact that Cho wrote about sexual abuse in no way means he was sexually abused. Just as his ramblings against society's injustices to him in no way mean such things actually occured.

They have released one of Cho's plays.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ye ... tech1.html
If you're easily offended, don't bother.

Also, they have released a few pages of the manifesto.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18186053/

Here are a couple of quotes from pages #1 & 2:

Oh the happiness I could have had mingling among you hedonists, being counted as one of you, only if you didn't [___] the living [___] out of me.

Are you happy now that you have destroyed my life? Now that you have stolen everything you can from me? Now that you have gone on a 9/11 on my life like [___] Osama. Now that you have [___] your own people like [___] Kim Jong-Il. Now that you have gone on a hummer safari on my life like [___] Bush? Are you happy now?

I heard a guy on TV say that if Cho had a button in front of him that could destroy the entire planet, he would have pushed it. I tend to believe that. Cho wasn't after one person, he was after anything that breathed his air. IMO, this wasn't a disturbed young man with an abusive past, this was a mentally ill, evil individual with nothing to lose.

I wanted to add;

Anyone who thinks that Cho wasn't stalking these girls is nuts themselves. It's one thing to talk to someone on IM and make arrangements to meet one another. It a horse of a different color when someone searches for your personal information then shows up on your doorstep uninvited. I would have called the cops, too! If I were his roommate, I wouldn't hesitate one second to warn my female friends of his past behavior. I'd feel like an asshole for NOT saying something to them!

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

keenobserver,

Every similarly marginalized person owes him a huge debt of gratitude.

This is where you cross the line.

Agreed. Cho accomplished nothing here - he is just as misunderstood in death as he was in life. His cause, for which he likened himself to Jesus, is completely unheard by any but those who already understood to begin with. The debt of gratitude should go to whoever is able to get people to understand how painfully devastating emotional abuse is - if anyone can actually do that. Even people who see that and understand it when it is a few steps removed from it are blind to it when it is so under their nose that they could actually do something about it - like Nat for example.

Awhile ago a thread on one of his boards suddenly turned into a major attack against me. I defended my position. After some of their members got warned for crossing the line, they changed the rules of the board to that anyone who posted after the rules got changed would be subject to whatever anyone wanted to say about them - so I let it drop at that point. Nevertheless, members of their board continued their attacks against me. I pm'd Nat, reminding him that the new rule was that only the people who posted after they changed the rules were supposed to be fair game, and I did not even post this objection on the thread at that time because by objecting on the thread, I would have opened myself up to be "fair game." The result of my pm was his girlfriend harassing the hell out of me on the thread for complaining. Nat decided it was okay that they were continuing to harass me despite that I followed the new rules about not posting unless I wanted to be attacked, because I had posted before the rules got changed - and I was even asked how they were supposed to know that I had dropped it when he changed the rules (my not posting anymore as soon as he said not to post unless I wanted to be attacked should have been a major clue), and his response to what I found to be really ugly behavior was "sticky buns." I have experienced a great deal of that kind of treatment my entire life, and seen many others go through that too. At that time, I was definitely thinking that I could understand why people go up into towers with boxes of ammo and just start picking off people as they came by. There is a serious ugliness that runs through humanity in either an active or a passive form. I went to the furthest lengths that I was willing to go to show these people how ugly their behavior was, and they never understood. I recall the QRS stating that there have been no great female philosophers for the same reason that there have been no female mass murderers, so apparently by not helping to reduce the overpopulation problem, in some people's minds I am proving that females are useless pieces of shit. It's just that I don't believe that popping a few dozen people would do any good. The fact that people still don't understand Cho proves that.
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[sschaula]

It's getting stranger: when he emailed the package to NBC he left the return address as "Ismail Ax". He also apparently had written that same term on his arm in red ink. It may be an Islamic reference...