stupid question.

[HUNTEDvsINVIS]

Hey there. This is my last post and last question. I have become disgusted with humanity so I have decided to become a hermit, hide from authority figures and read books until my head pops open with knowledge. I am guessing this might not be an uncommon phenomenon to most of you, but to me it is significant because I used to be a sunshine child. Anyway, the question is sad, too. The question is ( answer yes or no ) : philosophy is about everything.

[ I thought you can not say "no" because you can not be sure that every topic or item known to man kind can be totally and completely explained and unrelated to philosophy, or can remain unrelated to it forever. Maybe you can't say "yes" either because then you also assume proof. So. I think the question itself is wrong. Someone told me I am wrong because only things that have value to us can be discussed in philosophy. However you don't know when ordinary objects or accepted phenomena can become used in discussions of philosophy in the future. And even if you talk about chairs in philosophy you do so because you are using them as examples to establish meaningful ideas of, for example, logic, in philosophy.]

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[Elizabeth Isabelle]

I don't know how you can be a hermit while you are still in school, but good luck to you. I guess I'm a hermit. I don't live with anyone, I've only been out of the house once in the last month for a doctor's appointment and groceries, and it has been about a month and a half since I have had a conversation with anyone. It's been about 2 years since I have had contact with people on most days of the week. There are a lot of downsides to it, including that it gets more difficult to make the effort to try to talk to people, but I have also realized that there are not that many people that it's even worth the effort to talk with. I still come here, and I convinced the admins on a site where some of my old friends are to add a philosophy section to their board, so I go there more often now, but that's pretty much it.

I'd say that yes, philosophy is about everything. There are some things that don't really lend themselves to deep thoughts - like phone numbers; it would be really challenging to have to philosophize about phone numbers, and I doubt the resulting thoughts could be very deep, but I wouldn't rule anything out of philosophy.
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[HUNTEDvsINVIS]

Thanks for that, although someone asked me if I am a retard. Anything to make someone else feel stupid and useless, right? Anything to avoid seeing the other point of view. Why is it that so-called normal people can not answer questions with some enthusiasm. What if I WAS a retard? I would feel sorry for such a person, not bitch them. Yes, you see I have had it with so-called normal people, and the "smart" ones are the worst. It seems that all the texts they read and people they encounter teach them ZERO. People say I am too sensitive, and I admit I am bordering on godly status in the moral sphere, but I miss the days when people had actual manners. If people are like this, totally don't care what they say or do, I find that there might be no reason not to kill or harm them, they become like useless irrational, dangerous animals, like the ones that they say it is ok to eat and treat like, well, animals. They are hardly better than animals. My altruistic streak is fading, and fast.


Well, I am at university, not school, so I can basically isolate myself to a large degree ( No orals, no reporting to teachers, miss classes ). And the thing is I KNOW I must study more and read more, but sometimes I just wonder WHY BOTHER with all that effort, all that concentration, all those conclusions if it won't even pay off, even if I become a lecturer or whatever. I will be surrounded with irritating people and I will read and write books about the very abnormal normal people I try to include in philosophy. Nietzsche tried to advocate the superhuman, but I wonder what we would call a superhuman. How will such a person establish himself? hardly with perfect morality, he will be squashed before the can rise, and if he rises to the top he will be no better than the common man because chances are he would have done it in the capitalistic fashion of stepping on everyone to get to the top. Then his existence can hardly make up for that of the masses because he has built himself from their principles.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

My altruistic streak is fading, and fast.

I can definitely relate. When I first came to this board, despite all that I had been through, I still had an unconditional love for everyone - even though I recognized that with some people, the best expression of that love is to stay as far away from them as possible (like my ex - the further, the better). An expression of love for child molesters would be to put them in an isolated community far from children so that the children are not endangered, and the molesters are not tempted. Various things like that. I came here thinking I had a mission to help bring peace to the world - meaning a logical peace... heh - I still have not changed that off of the front page of my website. Now, I don't feel like people deserve peace. Love would propel me to help guide them to it anyway, but my heart has turned to stone.

I don't know why I bother with anything anymore, so for the most part, I don't. I have long had the feeling that I am going to die when I am 42, so for now, I just keep asking myself to hold on just 5 more years. I'm not even sure why I do that, but now is not the time to question myself on that one. At least I can tolerate the idea of 5 more years, and taking the choice away from myself frees up a lot of my mind.

There is more I want to answer on your post, but this is difficult for me right now. Please check back later, or maybe tomorrow, because I would like to work on this response a bit more.
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[sschaula]

You two are quite depressing.

If you find that people suck and aren't worth your while, then it makes sense to become a hermit. The Ozarks are a good place to go, from what I hear. Cheap land that you can live off of.

I would hope that you would be aware enough to see the reasons why you are reacting so strongly to people. This is a psychological issue, for the both of you, which normally needs to be dealt with by seeing a professional. Also by getting out more.

This is your life. Do with it what you want! You aren't a retard if you choose solitude.

[sschaula]

By the way, it might be smart for those with hardening hearts to take a break from the forum.

[vicdan]

I think it might be smart for those with hardening hearts to re-evaluate their self-image.

For one thing, it may be simply a matter of depression, or some related neurochemical imbalance. Nothing wrong with it, just something one might need help with -- we all need help with something.

For another thing, stewing in your own juices is not a good idea. Thought turned on itself runs in neutral gear. If you really want nothing less than The Truth, then still, in order to be productive, in order to be cognitively functional, you need to fertilize your thought with the variety of life.

Which is to say, go take a fucking walk in the park. Attend a comedy show. Get laid and laugh about it together. Then go back and think and read and cogitate for another few days. Lather, rinse, repeat.

We humans are constitutionally unsuited to solitude -- it fucks up our brains. We need human companionship the way we need ascorbic acid; and without the it, we develop intellectual rickets.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

fertilize your thought with the variety of life.

We do know what natural fertilizer is full of...
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[vicdan]

Yeah. And we also known what things would be like if such fertilizer were removed from the process, breaking the food chain -- at least those of us know who care about the whole picture rather than thinking that 'supermarket' is the adequate answer to the question of where food comes from.

Whatever. It's your life to fuck up.

[Unidian]

Becoming a hermit is okay, but kind of pointless. I'm a semi-hermit, but I don't make any conscious effort to avoid people, because I think that would be kind of melodramatic and silly. I don't think that having little social contact does me any good in some romantic "misunderstodd philosopher" sense, it's just a result of having unusual values and no money. If you are truly different in terms of your thinking, you don't have to make any big effort to isolate yourself, it will happen naturally.

I think you should make an effort to get out and do something every now and then, for the reasons others have mentioned. Total isolation is not healthy, nor is continuous contemplation. Note that I'm not talking about "normal" here, I'm just saying that you can't think about much of anything interesting if you drive yourself nuts. If introspection isn't just a phase for you, then you'll have your entire life to think about all kinds of things. It's plenty of time. The dramatic "renunciation" routine is generally for young people trying to make a "statement" to themselves or others.

You're not a "retard." That much is quite clear. One good way to develop a more useful viewpoint on the whole issue of other people might be to stop taking those kinds of remarks seriously. How can one be a gifted thinker on the one hand and "retarded" on the other? If you really think of yourself as the former, than the latter should be of no consequence, and there should be nothing to fear from others in that respect.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

someone asked me if I am a retard. Anything to make someone else feel stupid and useless, right? (...) People say I am too sensitive,

Calling someone too sensitive is the first line of defense by insensitive people. Asking someone if they are a retard is one of the more juvenile behaviors out there. People actually do outgrow using that one. That doesn't mean they start behaving like civilized human beings, though.

There are lots of ways to deal with that, and it's up to you which ways work best for you, or under which circumstance. Sometimes it's best to call them on their behavior, sometimes it's enough to really recognize how stupid they are as evidenced by their behavior (you said if someone really was retarded, you would feel sorry for them - well, these people who asked if you were a retard obviously have some kind of mental deficiency of their own), and sometimes with some people, the only way to deal with it is insult them back (and I was shocked the first time that worked for me... and it actually took a long time to learn how to insult people. Unfortunately now it comes a little too easily...), and sometimes just ignoring all the people is sufficient (and that way you get to have the benefits of going to class - and you might feel a little vindicated if you actually snub these people rather than just ignore them or hide from them).

Why is it that so-called normal people can not answer questions with some enthusiasm.

Because that's part of what makes them normal. Most people don't like to think (hence, the popularity of television...), and asking them thinking questions will just overload their minds. Maybe you could be a little more sensitive to the limitations of others? Don't ask them questions that will overload their little minds.

I find that there might be no reason not to kill or harm them,

They're not worth the effort to do that.

sometimes I just wonder WHY BOTHER with all that effort, all that concentration, all those conclusions if it won't even pay off, even if I become a lecturer or whatever.

It's a good way to escape the most dangerous person out there - ourself.

How will such a person establish himself? hardly with perfect morality, he will be squashed before the can rise,

Morality often is a kamikaze flight. We do what we are driven to do, impaired only by our limitations.

and if he rises to the top he will be no better than the common man because chances are he would have done it in the capitalistic fashion of stepping on everyone to get to the top. Then his existence can hardly make up for that of the masses because he has built himself from their principles.

The top of what? The top of society? That isn't necessary - just climb to the top of your own game. If you can be nothing else, at least you can be someone you respect if you do your best.
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[Dan Rowden]

An hermitic life might be a good temporary salve for what ails us, but it is unlikely to be a meaningful long term mode of living. If one cannot deal with how people and the world are then one hasn't really dealt with reality at all. The goal, if one values sanity and wisdom, is to be in the world but not of the world. Certain temporary emotional states may cause us to want to isolate ourselves from some aspect of Nature, but with personal and spiritual growth this need evaporates with the realisation that everything is just part of Nature - including human delusion and folly. The fact that it exists isn't really the problem; it's that we engage in it ourselves that matters.

Distaste for human folly can be a sign of natural intelligence. Study that folly rather than let it get to you. Be a scientist!

Having said the above, I agree that the possibility of a formal psychological problem such as depression should be considered.

[Gretchen]

Hey there. This is my last post and last question. I have become disgusted with humanity so I have decided to become a hermit, hide from authority figures and read books until my head pops open with knowledge.

Instead of taking drastic measures, try walking 3 miles a day. If you have an mp3 player of some sort, go to librivox.org and download public domain books to listen to...some even on philosophy! David Hume's An Enquiry to Human Understanding is on there, Immanuel Kant, Karl Marx, Friedrich Nietzsche...and you can listen to books while you get the needed endorphins to get you through your "people time."

Good Luck! PT

[HUNTEDvsINVIS]

Hi. Yes, I walk 3 miles a day anyway. Yeah, I should get a walkman to block out the normal people. The radiation will fry my brain eventually, but I can listen while I am walking. I am a disciple of Sheryl Crow, though. Unfortunately Nietzsche and I don't get along very well. He just caused a greater gap between smart and stupid people, a gap that no one likes to acknowledge, or should not like to acknowledge. Nietzsche and I have the same problem with the masses, but I don't think he took the right route to try and solve it or deal with it.

Elizabeth, are you sure you can cope with being alone so much? I can't really. People tell me to go live in student houses but I am too scared of the vices. Not to sound paternalistic or anything, but don't you want to get out more? The gym could be a cool place to meet people AND stay fit ( if you have enough money that is ). I know I am probably telling you stuff you have thought about already, but I think my case it extreme, I simply have an underlying problem with people and can not handle criticism anymore ( my family hates me and my friends sometimes lie to me to bring down my confidance. Sometimes I have strangled the truth out of them and they admitted their jealousy, and then I realise that my friends are my enemies ).

Best advice in life is to TRUST NO ONE. That way you will never doubt yourself and lose confidance.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

Elizabeth, are you sure you can cope with being alone so much?

Yes. For well over a year, I would get painfully lonely, but I don't get lonely anymore. I’ve tried speaking with people out of an attempt to work my way up to interacting with the world again (which is how I discovered that even speaking aloud with people is a skill that must be practiced or the ability gets lost). I even found a friend who was willing to speak with me on a fairly regular basis and who was relatively easy to talk with, and once I got some practice in that way, I attempted to contact others, but I failed miserably in the attempt. Most other people my age have families and lives of their own, and are too busy to talk. At the same time as that failure, my friend also became “too busy” to continue speaking with me, but I had some doubts there because this friend had once confessed to giving the excuse “too busy” to someone who was actually just annoying. Not really a lie, because everyone is too busy to be annoyed. It is for this reason that I don’t like subtlety and “politeness.” If I’m being annoying, I would rather trust that a person tell me to my face so that I don’t have to be “oversensitive” when that is not the case.

Of course though even here, I have gotten many complaints about my posting. I pretty much ignored that because I figure that if people don’t want to read my posts, they can just skip them. I don’t know if the complaints have stopped because people realized it wasn’t doing any good, or if people are just being polite because they realize that I am straddling the breaking point. People being charitably nice is as bad as rejection, and both are worse than just expecting to be alone.

Not to sound paternalistic or anything, but don't you want to get out more?

No. Part of me tells me that I ought to out of duty to humanity or some such (yes, I know that I have no duty other than that which I choose), but another part of me asks if I would be part of the solution, or part of the problem. As the forum often points out, just by being females out in the world, that makes us a problem. I used to think I could make it okay, but those who will not bend will be broken.

I have stood up for the right thing over and over, always to my detriment and only sometimes resulting in anything that looked like benefit to another – and even when there is benefit to another, sometimes that other will then jump on the bandwagon of opposing the very person who helped them. This is understandable because the person who was recently wronged, especially if they were rejected by the group or is in danger of being rejected by the group, is far more prone to doing what they know is wrong in order to solidify their place in the group. In those cases though, it is hard to tell if I really did any good. Perhaps they will grow more and start doing the right thing, or perhaps they just learned the pains of being unherdly.

I defiantly don’t want to get out more because I know that I will always stand up for what I believe to be ethical and just – and sooner or later I always get shredded for it, psychologically, financially, or even on rare occasion, physically. There is no limit to what evil will do to anyone who steps in its way. That sounds like I’m letting evil win, but if I step out before I am healed enough, I will only contribute to the problem.

The gym could be a cool place to meet people AND stay fit.

I’ve never met anyone at the gym, I don’t like the ogling that some of the guys do there (and some of the lesbians – and that’s even more of a problem in the community now that I stopped wearing make-up, so I suspect the gym would be the same), and it seems more efficient to me to exercise from home.

I simply have an underlying problem with people and can not handle criticism anymore.

Both constructive and destructive criticism is an attempt by the group to make someone conform. There is a lot that a thinking person does not want to conform to, but that does not mean that we can get others to conform to us, either. The herd is unlikely to accept one who does not conform.

You seem to want two conflicting things: you want to not be alone, yet you want to be yourself. What you don’t see yet is that all people, in one way or another, are alone. This includes the people in the herd. The better they can hide who they really are, the more they are able to attract others. Despite all the bodies around them, they are all alone deep within themselves. When people are their true selves, most people run – but those who are left, if any, are true companions. You must ask yourself if discriminating between who is a true companion and who is just a person is worth it to you to risk not having anyone around. The right answer is whichever answer is right for you – and that answer can change as you do.

my family hates me.

Since my parents died, I have gone with the concept of “chosen family.” Right now, GF is my family. Much of my biological family is dead, my mother’s family wants nothing to do with me either due to lies that my mother told about me or mere association with my mother who was really not right in the head - so they don’t know where I live nor even what my current name is, and what little is left of my father’s side of the family, nothing against them, but I guess that I am a painful reminder that my father rejected them, but the result is that it is very evident that they don’t want contact with me. Chosen family does not last forever, but obviously neither did biological family.

and my friends sometimes lie to me to bring down my confidance. Sometimes I have strangled the truth out of them and they admitted their jealousy, and then I realise that my friends are my enemies.

That is one of the ugly things about humanity. Many people try to bring down the confidence of others and even think they are doing a good thing by doing this to introduce humility into the person. You are right that these are your enemies.

Best advice in life is to TRUST NO ONE.

In grade school gym class, the P.E. teacher had us play this game called “Trust.” The class was to stand in a circle, and each student was to take a turn standing in the middle of the circle with our arms folded in front of out chest, our eyes closed, and to fall in any direction. The class was supposed to catch the person and push them to someone else who was to catch and push. I was always mercilessly picked on and none of the teachers could even figure out why – and in this game was no exception. When it came my turn, one of the students dropped me. The teacher yelled but everyone thought it was hilarious, so I got dropped again. Of course I didn’t want to go again, but the teacher threatened to give me an F for the day if I didn’t get back in the middle, so I went again and again, continually being dropped by one student in particular until the teacher finally gave up and sent her to the principal’s office. What I learned to trust was that the ground would always be there to fall on, and that falling on the ground isn’t necessarily horrible.

That way you will never doubt yourself and lose confidance.

I don’t know about you, but I have not always been perfect. When others let you fall, you lose confidence in others – but the day you can’t be there for yourself and others are not there for you either, that is crushing. The best answer is to learn realistic judgment about when to trust yourself and when to trust others. That just takes time and practice.
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[Esoterix]

This will clarify what I wrote. Thanks.
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[Esoterix]

I suppose some things have a shelf life, except for thin skin. It just grows back.

[Esoterix]

When in a mad house it's often profitable to fade to black.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

Darlin' Girl.... humor bloomers ... Eden's Great Fuckleberry Bush .... It's berries make great wine, and given a talking fireplace, there's always a chance to throw down a bare skin rub or two.

You are a vile and disgusting dirty old man.

As the forum often points out, just by being females out in the world, that makes us a problem.

Hunted, you see what I mean. WTF did I do to attract that kind of language out of this guy? Yes, he has had a perpetual history on this forum of being obsessed with sexual innuendo so it isn't really all that personal, and one could say that all this is "just words" - but words point, Esoterix is just one example of many guys like him, and the above words point to the vileness of humanity - vileness that has raked me over the coals one time too often. If this is enough to bother me this much, I am definitely not ready to go "out there" again. I'm probably pushing my luck just trying to be in here.
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[Katy]

Well, he's always been a dick - I haven't read a word he's said in quite some time... but you probably have a much higher percent chance of running into a misogynist asshole here than out there...

[Dan Rowden]

Why would you suggest that? In my experience the "out there" is innundated with misogynist arseholes.

[Katy]

Why would you suggest that? In my experience the "out there" is innundated with misogynist arseholes.

but most of them will just ignore you completely instead of taking the time to say such things to a complete stranger. We talk about stuff with people on the internet who we would never say 3 words to in person and thus are subjected to people like Esoterix' opinions rather than having a beer with some people. This is good and bad, of course... but I think in the context of this thread, it's pretty much bad.

I mean the internet is good when I want to get away from people because usually I just mean idiots. But I know I'm more likely to have to deal with someone actively offending me online...

[sschaula]

Elizabeth,

I hope you do with your life what you want, instead of letting life beat the crap out of you. Living in almost complete isolation out of fear or disgust isn't wise, smart, or good. Maybe you could go volunteer somewhere, travel, and be part of a team?

Do whatever, but if it gets too bad, just ask for help here. If it doesn't, then I hope that's what you are consciously choosing instead of passively accepting, and then griping about.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

I have to heal Scott. I have a warrior's spirit, but I fought the spiritual fight wounded for over 30 years. Wounds accumulate, especially if one does not sufficiently heal between times; and the more wounded one is, the less effectively one can fight. I have been slammed to the ground in many ways my whole life, and one of these times I just won't be able to get up again. This is the longest I have ever been on the ground, but I will do what I can, when I can. Part of a good grip on reality is recognizing one's limitations. I used to ask "how does one know what one's limitations truly are unless one crosses them from time to time?" Testing one's limits is good for the young, but knowing one's limits is a sign of maturity. If I perceive that it is necessary for me in particular to fight, whether I am ready or not, my spirit will propel me to do so. By now, I know not to run on broken legs - so I need the blinders of isolation so I can heal, if possible.

I'm sorry to sound like I'm griping or whining, but I got the impression that Hunted needed some honesty about this kind of thing. Hunted lists her location as hell, and I happen to be a cartographer for that region. I'm just trying to help her.
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[HUNTEDvsINVIS]

esoterix's photo reminds me of that guy William who tried to sell the enigmalith online for 20 000 dollars. Yeah, like, I am going to buy a stone with an ordinary household plug in it...

that was random, but necessary.