What happens when you die

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unwise
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What happens when you die

Post by unwise » Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:55 pm

One of the benefits of enlightenment is that you are made aware of the Cosmic Self as well as the material worlds and their organization. This only makes sense since all existence is in the the form of psychological states. Enlightenment is the understanding of the actual psychological arrangements.

The interesting thing to me is that modern science is now confirming what gurus have said for thousands of years - that there were millions of earths. According to quantum theory, there is an entire universe for every quantum event. To make a long story short, this means that there are millions and billions of earths like this one. Many are so identical that you could not tell the difference if you entered one. You would see the same TV shows, the same president, the same Coke, the same bands etc. Also, YOU would be there doing exactly what you are doing here, AND, you would have the same family.

Now, some earths vary slightly, some more so. In some worlds Hitler won the war and the Beatles broke up before they got a record deal. Also, some earths vary from this one in time. Some are behind our relative time and some are far in the future.

Before you say I am insane - Google it. This is modern physics my children.

One of the answers to your practical questions concerning death is that you are not going to die. But you already know this intuitively. You already know that you are not going to die. You will simply enter one of the parallel earths and inhabit the personality that is YOU. You will not even know this has happened. You may be the same age, older, younger or in a slightly different situation. You will not know anything has happened.

In fact, it has already happened to you. Have you ever experienced a 'close call' in which you nearly died? Was anything particularly miraculous about it? If so, there is a good chance that you did in fact die.

So, while you are talking about Borat and the Sears Catalogue, I thought I would tell you what is going to happen to you when you die.

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Elizabeth Isabelle
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Post by Elizabeth Isabelle » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:00 pm

I stand corrected. You have lost your mind.

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Rory
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Post by Rory » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:02 pm

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:I stand corrected. You have lost your mind.
That assumes she had one.

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kowtaaia
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Post by kowtaaia » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:03 pm

unwise,

What a relief! Thank you. :)

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Post by unwise » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:34 pm

The simple reason people spend lifetimes seeking enlightenment is that they are attached to being a genius. Being someone. Just as soon as the ego is no longer important, it falls away like a leaf. I pick up leaves all over the place and hold them up and look at them. What is that to me?

But it is a different matter with you. A "genius" cannot be enlightened. --Will refuse it. Reject it. You desire to be something and have something. In all these worlds I've mentioned, you are enlightened in only one of them. How will you get there? How will you get there by rejecting god?

God is merciful to reject you because it would shatter your mind.

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Elizabeth Isabelle
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Post by Elizabeth Isabelle » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:55 pm

unwise wrote:God is merciful to reject you because it would shatter your mind.
Are you speaking from experience?

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Post by unwise » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:28 pm

EI, Do you reject the position of theoretical physicists that there are billions of earths just like this one? With YOU on them? Is this what you think is insane?

I just take it for granted that people calling themselves 'genius' keep up with science.

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Carl G
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Post by Carl G » Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:14 pm

The concept of probable worlds was expounded at length by Jane Roberts years ago in the Seth books. And it is an interesting one. But it does not alter the need for self development in this world, in one's present life, where the rubber of consciousness meets the road of existence.

As for death, who knows. Probable worlds doesn't explain it for me. You're saying we are like cosmic multidimensional frogs who hop from world to world, instead of croaking?
Good Citizen Carl

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sschaula
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Post by sschaula » Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:51 pm

Unwise asked Elizabeth a stupid question, to which I will respond:
Do you reject the position of theoretical physicists that there are billions of earths just like this one? With YOU on them? Is this what you think is insane?
Yes. Yes! YES!
- Scott

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DHodges
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Quantum Bullshit

Post by DHodges » Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:04 am

unwise wrote:According to quantum theory, there is an entire universe for every quantum event.
That is one interpretation of QM, among several. The Many Worlds Interpretation should not be talked about as if it is an established fact.

I personally favor the Transactional Interpretation, but I consider it very much an open question, and I expect it to remain an open question for quite a while. The best approach at present seems to be to understand several different interpretations.

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Post by unwise » Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:32 am

Einstein hated quantum mechanics because it was not 'logical.' Yet, many strange and illogical features of QM including 'spooky action' have all be proven correct. QM is a fact. Your cell phone wouldn't work unless QM were true.

Yes, the multiple universe theory is not at this stage considered an absolute fact, but it has been rapidly gaining ground as a solution for decades. It is a favorite with many physicists now and also the guru of this post. Even string theory supposes 11 dimensions.

If you think deeply on multiple universes, it explains many paranormal phenomena such as ghosts, UFOs, aliens, prophecy, deja vu, strange creatures and many many such things.

Knowledge is power. The study of QM frees you from the rigid 'logic' of the old Newtonian world. Modern physicists sound like old gurus. So open your mind. This is my point. If you read books like 'The Dancing Wu Li Masters' or 'The Tao of Physics' or 'The Holographic Mind' you wouldn't be caught in the ruts I see on this forum.

You call what I say 'insane' even though it is a very serious aspect of physics. THAT IS A RUT MY CHILDREN. You've taken ONE aspect of human consciousness called 'logic' and called it 'enlightenment.' That is a laugh.

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Elizabeth Isabelle
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Post by Elizabeth Isabelle » Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:59 am

(emphasis mine)
unwise wrote:EI, Do you reject the position of theoretical physicists that there are billions of earths just like this one? With YOU on them? Is this what you think is insane?

I just take it for granted that people calling themselves 'genius' keep up with science.
Do you know what a theory is?
unwise wrote: THAT IS A RUT MY CHILDREN.
All caps says anger. I detect that you feel offended that we are not taking your recitation of theory as fact. Both of these emotional stated indicate a strong ego.

Calling us your children indicates a big ego.

You have indicated that you have a big, strong ego. That is all.

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sschaula
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Post by sschaula » Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:13 am

An inability to think clearly is a rut, unwise. Claiming guru status is a rut. Calling people that can think - your "children" - is a rut.

It's not that anyone's mind is limited by rational thinking. It's not limited to be sane and know reality. It's not as if insanity frees us.

Rather, getting over yourself frees you...something which you have not done yet no matter what you claim. And to do that takes some exceptionally clear thinking. It takes not caring about UFOs or siddhis or enlightenment. It takes caring only about the truth...something which people here do, and something which you don't do.

At least to me, Quantum Mechanics is laughable. It's not that my mind is in a rut, it's that the theory itself seems to be very stupid. I will check out a book on it in a couple of weeks, when I have winter break from school, and actually learn more about it. But at face value, the ideas of multiple dimensions, multiple universes (ha!), and multiple worlds that are similar to ours is very laughable. It may explain some things, but one has to ask oneself - does it make sense? Can it be possible?

One has to ask oneself that without caring about what the answer will be. That's the hard part.

The reason why, in my opinion, you've missed the mark so many times here is that you always care too much about things going your way. About the answers being what you thought they were...like with enlightenment, UFOs, etc. It just seems to me like ego at full blast, with very little self awareness.

Of course people are going to believe in parallel universes if that's what they want to believe. They will find a way to rationalize it to themselves. The same could be said from the other point of view, for the old physicists...that they want to believe in an easy system, and it skews their view of reality.

So above the battle between old physics and new physics, aspiring-genius and pseudo-mystic...the truth should be sought. Then whatever answer remains will be it. There will still be arguments between everyone who are still trying to believe what they want. Hopefully, for the sake of the truth-interested, those arguments are seen to be the stupid things they are and they'll fall to the wayside...and the scientific way of doing things will remain popular.
- Scott

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Post by unwise » Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:14 am

EI, you started off saying that my ideas were 'insane.' Now that you have been brought up to speed you say that it is only 'a theory.' I've gained ground.
Both of these emotional stated indicate a strong ego.
The reason you say this is because YOU are identified with your ego. A guru uses an ego, but is not attached to it. An ego is necessary to act and to communicate. I can have my ego do anything and act like anything. I use it like you would use a hammer or spoon. When YOU see an expression of ego, you naturally assume this means ATTACHMENT because that is all you know.

I call you 'children' because you think your ideas are mature. They are childish to me - and very arrogant. It is the arrogance that cuts you off. All the scripture says this.

I've said this before and I'll say it again....before I was made enlightened by others I did not claim to know anything. I was open like a sponge. I was NOT ignorant, I had read many books and was bright, but the more I learned, the more questions I had - the more ignorant I saw that I was. I did not have haughty ideas nor did I put people down who might have helped me. This is the big difference between me and you.

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Elizabeth Isabelle
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Post by Elizabeth Isabelle » Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:46 am

Mistaking a theory for a fact is a parting from reality. The further one has parted from reality, the less sane he is.

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Ryan Rudolph
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Post by Ryan Rudolph » Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:10 am

To claim with confidence that you ultimately know what will happen after your own death is a sign of a neurotic insanity, same manifestation as a Christian.

The ultimate faith is keeping your mind in a place where you don’t know or care to know what happens at death.

when you are truly living, what happens after death is irrelevant.

This is the funny thing about guru-types is that they preach about faith this and that that, but all their convictions have been derived through a fear of their own ego death.

And this is why 99.99% of gurus cannot be trusted. And remember there is a 00.01% margin of error in my statistics.

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Post by unwise » Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:22 am

Mistaking a theory for a fact is a parting from reality. The further one has parted from reality, the less sane he is.
There, always the need to reclaim one's status.

What happens when you die is a part of life. What I said was that there IS NO DEATH. How can this be construed to mean that I am worried about it? Why do you post as a dwarf from Lord of the Rings? Do you identify with his size? His verve? Or his axe? In what way are you identified with him?

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Post by beebuddy » Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:28 am

unwise wrote:
Mistaking a theory for a fact is a parting from reality. The further one has parted from reality, the less sane he is.
There, always the need to reclaim one's status.

What happens when you die is a part of life. What I said was that there IS NO DEATH. How can this be construed to mean that I am worried about it? Why do you post as a dwarf from Lord of the Rings? Do you identify with his size? His verve? Or his axe? In what way are you identified with him?
Holy christ man! The absence of death is not the continuation of the personality.

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DHodges
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Post by DHodges » Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:44 am

unwise wrote:Yes, the multiple universe theory is not at this stage considered an absolute fact, but it has been rapidly gaining ground as a solution for decades. It is a favorite with many physicists now and also the guru of this post. Even string theory supposes 11 dimensions.
The eleven(ish) dimensions of string theory has nothing to do with the multiple worlds interpretation of QM.

If you want to argue in favor of multiple worlds, you need to explain why you consider it superior to other interpretations of QM, like the Copenhagen Interpretation, or a transactional interpretation.

I personally don't find "my guru likes it" to be a very convincing argument. "It explains ghosts and UFOs" isn't terribly convincing, either; I wouldn't take that to be an advantage of that interpretation.

The advantage of Many Worlds, as I see it, have to do with symmetry and avoiding the "collapsing wave function" in the Copenhagen Interpretation. However, a transactional interpretation also addresses those issues pretty well, in my opinion.
Modern physicists sound like old gurus. So open your mind. This is my point. If you read books like 'The Dancing Wu Li Masters' or 'The Tao of Physics' or 'The Holographic Mind' you wouldn't be caught in the ruts I see on this forum.
Dancing Wu Li Masters is from 1979. Tao of Physics is from 1975.

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Post by unwise » Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:40 am

Holy christ man! The absence of death is not the continuation of the personality.
Your personality will be with you forever.

DH - Whether you are fond of Copenhagen or Many Worlds, they are both highly problematic from the viewpoint of the logicians and determinists who run this board. If you are at all familial with QM, I don't know what you expect to get here.

The Copenhagen view is simply a cop out. A very very old one. It does not try to say or understand anything. It is simply saying, if we can't measure something, let's forget it.....and let's forget trying to form some philosophical understanding. We can't locate a particle or even wonder what is going on here, so let's forget it. Not very philosophically satisfying.

Schrödinger's cat demonstrates nicely the collapse of the wave function and its consequences. It does, in fact, work very well in the Many Worlds theory. Schrodinger's cat is a simplified version of my original post.

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beebuddy
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Post by beebuddy » Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:38 am

Your personality will be with you forever.
I am "my personality." Therefore the above statement makes no sense.

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Post by David Quinn » Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:42 am

Unwise wrote:
Whether you are fond of Copenhagen or Many Worlds, they are both highly problematic from the viewpoint of the logicians and determinists who run this board.
Only a person with a limited understanding of determinism and logic (and indeed, quantum physics) would find quantum physics problematical. There is nothing in quantum physics which undermines causality or logic in any way. I'm afraid those populist, pseudo-scientific books ("Tao of Physics", "Dancing Wu Li Masters", etc ) have misled you.

What happens when you die is a part of life. What I said was that there IS NO DEATH. How can this be construed to mean that I am worried about it? Why do you post as a dwarf from Lord of the Rings? Do you identify with his size? His verve? Or his axe? In what way are you identified with him?
Look, would you mind slitting your throat now and shuffling off to some other world, and leave us all in peace? You're such a bore.

-

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Post by unwise » Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:11 pm

Look, would you mind slitting your throat now and shuffling off to some other world, and leave us all in peace? You're such a bore.
Go see your doctor about your blood pressure. You're going to bust your gall bladder with bile backed up like that. I have purposely come to 'Worldly Matters' so as not to bother you in your reverie. Why do you always participate in my threads if you find them boring?
There is nothing in quantum physics which undermines causality or logic in any way. I'm afraid those populist, pseudo-scientific books ("Tao of Physics", "Dancing Wu Li Masters", etc ) have misled you.
Then by all means explain how you view the Schroedinger's Cat paradox. Do you understand that the cat is only dead or alive when someone looks in the box? - that both states must be true? What logic would you say this demonstrates? Specifically, how would you notate with logic that the cat is both alive and not alive?

When you tolerate endless posts on Borat, why is this post which (you now see) is about philosophy so troubling to you?

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Post by unwise » Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:18 pm

I am "my personality." Therefore the above statement makes no sense
No enlightened man would make a statement like that. You are most certainly NOT your personality. It is precisely your identification with the personality that is the definition of ignorance and bondage.

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Post by kowtaaia » Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:02 pm

unwise wrote:
I am "my personality." Therefore the above statement makes no sense
No enlightened man would make a statement like that. You are most certainly NOT your personality. It is precisely your identification with the personality that is the definition of ignorance and bondage.

Whose identification with the personality? What is it that identifies?

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