More pop culture crap : Star Wars

[DHodges]

Since I ams an American citizen, I went and saw the new Star Wars movie, as required. (I will try to discuss it without giving away any plot points, for those who care about such things.) Star Wars is, of course, the official American mythology.

The most interesting part of the movie, I thought, was when a character said something about good and evil, and a Jedi responds, “Only a Sith Lord deals in absolutes!”

In the Star Wars universe, the Jedi are Good and the Sith are Evil (the dark side of the force). It is as simple as that.

So absolutes – or thinking in absolutes – is thus presented as evil. Good (even Absolute Good, which the Jedi are supposed to be about) can only be expressed through some sort of relativism. Absolutes must be Absolutely Evil. (So the Jedi can be relatively good, but they can’t be Absolutely Good, or they would be an Absolute, and therefore Evil! A fine line for the Jedi to walk.)


Another interesting question revolves around this issue: a certain democratically elected official, it turns out, is Evil. The Jedi are supposed to uphold the values of the Republic, presumably including its elected representative government. Yet the Jedi decide that the proper course of action is to assassinate this particular official.

Now, of course, if you reject Absolutism, and are a Relativist, there are of course possibly circumstances where you can only act morally by rejecting certain moral principles. Democracy, itself, can not be inherently Good

So, what is the correct thing to do? Assassinate the official, since he is Evil? Or support the values of the Republic, even if that includes policies with which you do not agree? If Democracy is what you believe in, should you not believe that the democratic process is capable of correcting its own excesses?

This seems to me like an issue that should actually take some thought, and not be a black-and-white issue that separates Evil from Good. It seems like something people could legitimately have different views on.


The third part that had some interest is the reason why a person turns to the dark side of the Force (evil). This was stated quite explicitly: attachment. He turns evil because he can’t let go of what he desires to protect and preserve.

That is actually a pretty good point, but again it presents a problem for the Jedi: they can only preserve and protect something if they don’t care about it too much. And if you don’t care that much, why do you preserve and protect it? Why go through all that effort and risk, if you have no attachment to it?

The Jedi have to be able to recognize that something can be good, valuable, worth protecting, and yet at some point it will die anyway. That’s just the way it is. The Universe goes on. The Jedi say that they are "selfless", where the Sith are "selfish" (seeking power and control).

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Yes, the movie seems to have some things mixed up. The Sith master is somehow a crooked, warped version of a sage. The Jedi seem to be more like a shallow failing image of the wannabe philosopher (priest) - warrior

Why I prefer the Sith over the Jedi?

- The Sith seem to walk a solitary path (apart from some Eastern-style teacher-student relation), while the Jedi seem to be part of the social system, having a whole community and school system, involved in political intricacies and so on.

- The Sith have in many scenes the upper hand if it comes to knowledge of the universe, knowing the minds of the opponents, seeing into the future, understanding cause and effect, and so on. The Jedi are blind stumbling arrogant bunch compared to the Sith and their blindness is what causes the war to escalate and the republic to become its opposite.

- The Sith, although manipulating in the movie, speak often the truth way more clearly and sharply than the Jedi.

I see Star Wars as another attempt to demonize the search for knowledge ("eternal life") and the deviant anti-social life and teaching of true sages. The Sith are shown as power hungry while it's not explained why they'd want to rule the universe when with their powers they already give them all they could ever need. They are shown as manipulating, worshipping war and violence, loving anger and death. While their fighting skills and insight in the hearts and minds of people would suggest they have great self-control and wisdom beyond the Jedi.

To me the real philosophical truth of the movie is that both Jedi and Sith are perverted. The Jedi represent the perverted sense of what is considered good, and the Sith is a crooked projection of what people fear and reject most: ultimate knowing and true being.

Luke Skywalker is supposed then to be a merge, not realy Sith and not really Jedi? This is poorly portrayed in 'Return of the Jedi' and I doubt if this idea was really meant to be worked out by Lucas.

[WolfsonJakk]

The Star Wars mythology is based on Buddhist mythology with the Jedis being the Buddhist monks. What is added into the mix is "The Force" which is a mystical natural force that permeates all things. Since it is a singular object, an individual can essentailly fall on either "Side" of it, from the human perspective. The Force itself probably doesn't care. But as a plot device, it allows for an antagonist; an anti-monk, to exist and give the story drama.

It is well known that one of Lucas' favorite directors is Kurosawa. Lucas and Spielberg helped secure financing and acted as executive producers for Kurosawa's 1980 Kagemusha, a samurai film. Kurosawa is best known for his samurai films like Seven Samurai, Yojimbo, The Hidden Fortress, Throne of Blood, etc. The Jedi and anti-Jedi with their lightsabers are merely neo-samurai. Some live outwardly by the code of bushido and some don't. The Force itself is the esoteric made "real" for the sake of the audience.

Tharan

*edit*

I forgot to mention that the original Star Wars was losely based on The Hidden Fortress, in which a handful of adventures defy the odds and rescue a princess held captive by a neighboring province in a outpost hidden in the mountains. Edited by: WolfsonJakk at: 6/24/05 2:50

[DHodges]

Interesting. I've seen maybe five of Akiro Kurosawa's films, but I haven't seen The Hidden Fortress. I'll have to check it out some time.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Not many of the millions of starwars lovers know the philosophical background intended by the maker. Apart from that what was named above by Taran there were even more direct known influences that might be interesting to name here.

George Lucas his own admitted 'Yoda' was Joseph Campbell, author of 'The Hero With a Thousand Faces', basicly a work exploring the archetypical myths and its heroes. The idea is that all human stories, history and events have an underlying similar theme, basicly repeating the same configuration in different forms and shapes.

The so-called "Hero's Journey" has always the stages of departure, initiation and return. This is similar to some Buddhist as well as Christian parabels but also most Greek and Hollywood adventures.

Note that in starwars the Skywalker family ('shaman' means skywalker) consists of father and son who are part of the same Hero's quest. Luke is just a rebirth of Anakin, who had no father. The Jedi and Sith are really only side issues to the fate of the one Skywalker.

Campbell quote:Quote:Quote:<hr>Mythology has been interpreted by the modern intellect as a primitive, fumbling effort to explain the world of nature (Frazer); as a product of poetical fantasy from prehistoric times, misunderstood by succeeding ages (Müller); as a repository of allegorical instruction, to shape the individual to his group (Durkheim); as a group dream, symptomatic of archetypal urges within the depths of the human psyche (Jung); as the traditional vehicle of man’s profoundest metaphysical insights (Coomaraswamy); and as God’s Revelation to His children (the Church). Mythology is all of these… . For when scrutinized in terms not of what it is but of how it functions, of how it has served mankind in the past, of how it may serve today, mythology shows itself to be as amenable as life itself to the obsessions and requirements of the individual, the race, the age.<hr>

Is this all a metaphor of the search within, a pure philosophical journey? I believe this might go way beyond and tells in imaginary form the gnostic view on Sophia and consciousness itself. Not that it's meant to be instructive always, how could eg a movie be seen as educative in this aspect when all it does is providing more fantasy and sense overstimulation? But there just doesn't seem another way to tell any good story, then by including the Story of Stories in it somehow even when deluded to something hard to recognize.

[Kevin Solway]

DHodges wrote:

Quote:Quote:<hr>The most interesting part of the movie, I thought, was when a character said something about good and evil, and a Jedi responds, “Only a Sith Lord deals in absolutes!”<hr>

Yes, that stood out for me too.

But, “Only a Sith Lord deals in absolutes" is itself an absolute. So the Jedi themselves must all be Sith Lords, and the Sith won in the end.

[MKFaizi]

As an American, I actually went to a theater and saw the first Star Wars movie in 1976 or thereabouts.

Really stunk. Not about to do it again for whatever stink installment is in theaters now.

Just awful. So sickenly sweet. Cute robots and the Yoda thing and Wookies and all the cute creatures in the cute bar scene.

God sucking cute.

Any more cute and I would have thrown up.

Faizi

[WolfsonJakk]

Martha, that is your way of saying you liked it, right?

[MKFaizi]

My first name is Marsha. Are you talking to me?

No, this does not mean I liked Star Wars. It means I thought it stunk and I still think it stinks.

Faizi

[1TheMaster]

Star Wars can be seen as the contemporary Western religion. It is made of black and white. The vast majority of westerner, spoilt priveliged kids can only identify with the jedi. they are humanistic and want to preserve what they have. The Sith, though superior in thought, are seen as evil. destructive. A few deviant kids will identify with the Sith.

[DHodges]

Quote:Quote:<hr>Just awful. So sickenly sweet. Cute robots and the Yoda thing and Wookies and all the cute creatures in the cute bar scene.

God sucking cute.

Any more cute and I would have thrown up.<hr>

Even that was nothing compared to, what was it, the second or third one, with the Ewoks. Yes, muppets vs. the Empire. Muppets win. Yay!

[birdofhermes]

Quote:Quote:<hr>As an American, I actually went to a theater and saw the first Star Wars movie in 1976 or thereabouts.<hr>I also went to see it when it came out and walked out after about 20 minutes or so. I've never watched any of them.