Cory: Upon examining the meaning carefully I realized that I never gave sufficient contemplation to an essential part of the definition. And thus I contemplated upon the part of the definition which says: “certain persons, groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiorityâ€
I then realized that, according to the dictionary, it is impossible to not be an elitist as long as you regard a particular person or group of persons as inferior, which you milli just so happen to do. According to the definition of elitism Milli, you are an elitist.
Milli: No. It's the "deserving of favored treatment" part you're ignoring.
An elitist favors being treated in a particular way, and they dislike being treated in other ways. Those who appear to be superior are favored by the elitist.
Thus, those who appear to be inferior are not to be treated as favorites.
Milli, if someone were to walk up to you and start pushing you and calling you names, would you be indifferent? Or do you favor and even out of a sheer demand use force to achieve the treatment you feel you deserve, or you feel is right?
The key word is ‘favor’. Do you have a favored ways of being treated Milli? Of course you do, you elitist.
I think if you are honest with yourself, you will realize that you do favor and even demand certain forms of treatment, and thus hate other forms of treatment.
We are all elitists.
Do you favor a particular sort of person Milli? And do you despise and hurl insults at those who you don’t favor?
Or is everyone equally your favorite?
Being an elitist, according to the dictionary definition, is about believing people should treat you in a way that you believe you deserve, AND, it’s about favoring and giving favorable treatment to those who appear to be superior.
Amusingly, humans behave in an elitist fashion before they begin to walk. They believe they should be treated the way they want, they cry when they don’t get it, and they get excited and happy when they get the treatment they want.
Toddlers also give favored treatment to the things and people that are their favorite, and they neglect, ignore and cry in response to things they don’t favor.
So toddlers are elitists, and they grow up to be adults, some more good, some more evil depending on how much they have been spoiled and traumatized.
Milli: One can be right without being an elitist if they don't demand special treatment, such as an exemption from the rules of logic.
According to the dictionary, being an elitist isn’t about ‘DEMANDING’ special treatment from others, but rather, it’s about believing that one deserves to be treated in a certain way.
For instance, an evil elitist perhaps prefers that he have servants obey his every whim, and his preference for this form of treatment might coagulate into a DEMAND for obsequious behavior. When that demand is not met he may engage in violence to maintain his preferred way of being treated.
So an evil elitist is a Tyrant. Perhaps you and I should take note of this valuable distinction? On the one hand we have a good elitist, a philosopher, and on the other hand we have the evil elitist, the tyrant.
A good elitist demands that people respect him, he demands that people do not physically and verbally abuse him, etc, etc.
If his demands are not met, he perhaps retreats, perhaps uses force, or perhaps calls on others to use force for him.
The good elitist is much lower maintenance, then the evil elitist, the tyrant.
If you break the words elitist and elitism down to the word elite, you will find that the word elite means: “The best or most skilled members of a groupâ€.
Elitism is also about knowing you are among the most skilled members of a group, and it is about favoring the most skilled members of a group. You may or may not be deluded about who is is the best and who is the worst.
The tyrant thinks his way is best for him, otherwise he wouldnt be what he is. And his belief that he is superior is perhaps a delusion and only 'relatively' true, rather than absolutely true.
Cory: now realize that the moment you regard a particular person/group as inferior, you inevitably give favored treatment to the person/group you perceive as superior.
Milli: No. That's exactly wrong. You're ignoring the definition you just highlighted. You can feel correct or superior, but if you do not demand specials rules and treatment, your are not an elitist.
Milli, do you care whether or not a drunk bum off the street walks into your home and starts rooting in your fridge and making sexual advances on you? Are you indifferent about how you are treated?
I think if your honest with yourself you will realize that you are an elitist who prefers, if not demands being treated in a certain way.
Cory: I said I ‘didn’t know’ if I could continue the discussion unless we both were in agreement of what was logical and what wasn’t.
If we can’t agree, then there is no sense discussing any further. Perhaps we will get over this little bump in the road.
Milli: Exactly. You're threatening to shut down the discussion if I don't agree with you on terms, even though you know exactly what I'm saying.
Does it make sense to spend your energy dealing with someone who doesn’t seem to be being logical?
My philosophy is, get to know the person you are in relationship with and allow the relationship to progress to the degree that the other individual is behaving logically. If he doesnt seem to be logical, let him know what is confusing you.
I’m sorry to have sounded like I am threatening you to obey me. I am not trying to do that.
That is my way of provoking you to be as logical and stringent as possible.
I appreciate your persistence, and encourage you to stick it out and see where this goes.
Cory: Do you agree with me that your meaning of elitism is far removed from the global consensus?
Milli: No. I do not. The definition is two part.
Believing one is superior or correct and ALSO DEMANDING SPECIAL TREATMENT.
All humans "demand special treatmentâ€.
An elitist tyrant demands that his slaves obey his whims, sexual, military or otherwise. He uses violence if his demmands are not met.
An elitist philosopher demands that his peers be logical and cautious. An elitist philosopher will not tolerate the incistence of someone who is trying to have sex with him, or trying to get him to take drugs. An elitist philosopher will not tolerate a man who harasses him and makes no sense.
Your average married male citizen demands that strangers do not wander into his home and try screwing his wife.
Etc, etc.
You get the deal.
Milli: My contention that elitism is defined by a feeling one no longer has to explain oneself is an EXAMPLE of special treatment.
Yes, you are talking about an evil elitist, a tyrant who feels he can do whatever he wants without explaining to his peers the logic behind his actions.
You are confusing elitism with tyranny. I think it’s important for us to recognized the two are distinct yet connected.
Milli: A feeling of exemption from the rules of discourse is an EXAMPLE of special treatment.
Yes that is
an example of how an
evil,
unwise elitist might function.
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Milli, I will continue discussion on the grounds that you admit that you demand to be treated in a particular way. You don’t just let people walk all over you, do you?
You demand to be treated like someone who is not an object to be used for others personal gratification, at
your expense.
There are good elitists (philosophers) and there are evil elitists (tyrants).
Cory: You are not exempt from your behavior being accurately identified. If you are demanding that, you are textbook elitist, demanding special treatment.
Yes, like the rest of humanity, and like you, I am elitist.
Cory: Thus, according to the dictionary, and thus according to me - you are an elitist my friend.
Milli: No. Because I am NOT asking for special treatment, something you discovered was part of the definition of elitist.
What if I was to start stalking you? Harrassing you? Breaking into your home?
Would you not demand that I stop?
You demand to be treated in a particular way, just like everyone else.
What parts of this post are illogical?