The Hard Line By CP

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Ryan Rudolph
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Post by Ryan Rudolph » Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:28 am

Hatred and elitism are not bad things Milli, you are assuming too much here.

Jesus once said "The man who enters the kingdom of heaven must hate his father, hate his mother, and hate himself."

That's not an exact quote.

I'm not saying that one should tell their own father they hate them, but what I'm saying is that I'm not proud of my father because I see him for what he is.

A confused, cowardly man.

there is no love between us because there is no relationship. when ever I say anything he becomes angry whereas I am calm, logical and sane.

millipodium

Post by millipodium » Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:31 am

cosmic_prostitute wrote:Hatred and elitism are not bad things Milli, you are assuming too much here.

Jesus once said "The man who enters the kingdom of heaven must hate his father, hate his mother, and hate himself."

That's not an exact quote.

I'm not saying that one should tell their own father they hate them, but what I'm saying is that I'm not proud of my father because I see him for what he is.

A confused, cowardly man.

there is no love between us because there is no relationship. when ever I say anything he becomes angry whereas I am calm, logical and sane.
Hate is different than seeing something for what it is. Hate is when you feel people should either die, or have their fates determined by you, simply because they don't agree with your and your narcicisstically induced psychobabble.

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Post by Ryan Rudolph » Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:08 am

Milli wrote:
Hate is when you feel people should either die, or have their fates determined by you, simply because they don't agree with your and your narcicisstically induced psychobabble.
I have never clamied that this is my position, again assumptions based on false projections.

Part of me would like to see humanity to change, the other part doesnt care, I'm indifferent.

Indifference is a good attitude to have because of how futile everything is. An individual is fairly powerless.

UG krishnamurti once said "Sir why are you trying to change mankind? you cannot even change your mother in law"

millipodium

Post by millipodium » Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:14 am

cosmic_prostitute wrote:Milli wrote:
Hate is when you feel people should either die, or have their fates determined by you, simply because they don't agree with your and your narcicisstically induced psychobabble.
I have never clamied that this is my position, again assumptions based on false projections.

Part of me would like to see humanity to change, the other part doesnt care, I'm indifferent.

Indifference is a good attitude to have because of how futile everything is. An individual is fairly powerless.

UG krishnamurti once said "Sir why are you trying to change mankind? you cannot even change your mother in law"
Stick to disinterested and you have no problems with me. When cory patrick gets you into a revolutionary elitist fervor, I start to worry.

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Cory Duchesne
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Post by Cory Duchesne » Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:29 am

An exchange between Milli and Cosmic Prostitute:
Milli: Are you a jew, cp?

Cosmic P: I have european origins genetically, I am a white male.

Milli: But are you a jew?
Milli, why are you concerned with whether or not CP is a jew or not?

millipodium

Post by millipodium » Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:32 am

Cory Patrick wrote:An exchange between Milli and Cosmic Prostitute:
Milli: Are you a jew, cp?

Cosmic P: I have european origins genetically, I am a white male.

Milli: But are you a jew?
Milli, why are you concerned with whether or not CP is a jew or not?
Why are you concerned with my concern about CP's religious affiliation?

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Post by Cory Duchesne » Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:44 am

If you want to know what CP's religious affiliation, then why don't you ask him what his religious affiliation is, rather than asking him what his race is?

And to answer your question:

Why am I concerned with your concern about CP's 'race'....well, lets just say I find individuals suspicious who concern themselves with another individuals race.

If I was debating with someone, and then he suddenly asked
me what race I was, I would find that kind of weird.

And another question to you milli,

Why do you concern your self with other peoples religious affiliations?

millipodium

Post by millipodium » Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:57 am

Cory Patrick wrote:If you want to know what CP's religious affiliation, then why don't you ask him what his religious affiliation is, rather than asking him what his race is?

And to answer your question:

Why am I concerned with your concern about CP's 'race'....well, lets just say I find individuals suspicious who concern themselves with another individuals race.

If I was debating with someone, and then he suddenly asked
me what race I was, I would find that kind of weird.

And another question to you milli,

Why do you concern your self with other peoples religious affiliations?
Oh, so jews are a race not a religion? I never have gotten a straight answer on that one.

Why do you concern yourself with others concerns regarding the relgious affiliation of others?

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Post by Cory Duchesne » Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:15 am

Milli wrote:
Oh, so jews are a race not a religion? I never have gotten a straight answer on that one.
Yes, I can understand how you might have been confused about the word jew and what it signifies. The consensus would tell you that the word jew refers to race, in other words, to genetics.

The main jewish religion is jaudasim, I don't know of any other jewish religions besides that one.

And to answer your most recent question:

Why do I concern myself with your concerns regarding the relgious affiliation of CP?

Well, I knew that you were having a debate with CP, you were disagreeing with him.

You suddenly asked him if he was a jew.

My question to you is, if he said that he was, what bearing would that give you?

millipodium

Post by millipodium » Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:31 am

Cory Patrick wrote:Milli wrote:
Oh, so jews are a race not a religion? I never have gotten a straight answer on that one.
Yes, I can understand how you might have been confused about the word jew and what it signifies. The consensus would tell you that the word jew refers to race, in other words, to genetics.

The main jewish religion is jaudasim, I don't know of any other jewish religions besides that one.

And to answer your most recent question:

Why do I concern myself with your concerns regarding the relgious affiliation of CP?

Well, I knew that you were having a debate with CP, you were disagreeing with him.

You suddenly asked him if he was a jew.

My question to you is, if he said that he was, what bearing would that give you?
Well, jews are the archtypal elitists, so I was just wondering if any of his elitism springdidid from there.

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Post by Cory Duchesne » Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:08 am

Milli wrote:
Well, jews are the archtypal elitists, so I was just wondering if any of his elitism sprung from there.
Do you agree that there is a difference between regarding something, someone or oneself as superior, compared to believing that something, someone, or oneself deserves favored treatment and reverence just because they belong to a certain class or group?

I think you are confusing elitism with the simple and necessary act of acknowledging a superior way of action.

In an earlier post you told me:

Milli: Though I understand perfectly what you're saying Cory, I do not agree, and I pity your stupidity.
In this statement you perfectly illustrate the necessary of making a distinction between a superior way of behaving and an inferior way of behaving.

Milli you are pretty much saying that you understand me perfectly, and you pity my inferiority.

What I’m getting at Milli is this: I don’t think I have said anything to indicate that I believe I belong to a special class of people that deserve favored treatment from others. If that was the case, then I would be being idealistic, and thus in contradiction.

Here is the definition of elitism Milli:

1.The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.
2.The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.
Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.
In this regard, I am not elitist.

Like you, I see somethings, some people, some books and some religions as inferior.

Elitism implies more than simply making the neccesary distinctions between inferrior and superior. So in that regard, I am not elitist.

We’re not so different after all, are we Milli?

millipodium

Post by millipodium » Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:36 am

Cory Patrick wrote:Milli wrote:
Well, jews are the archtypal elitists, so I was just wondering if any of his elitism sprung from there.
Do you agree that there is a difference between regarding something, someone or oneself as superior, compared to believing that something, someone, or oneself deserves favored treatment and reverence just because they belong to a certain class or group?
Yes.

I think you are confusing elitism with the simple and necessary act of acknowledging a superior way of action.
In the particular world though, intellectual elitists typically advocate completely unworkable and/ or cruel and inhumane policy. Such is the case with you and the OTHER cp.

In an earlier post you told me:

Milli: Though I understand perfectly what you're saying Cory, I do not agree, and I pity your stupidity.
In this statement you perfectly illustrate the necessary of making a distinction between a superior way of behaving and an inferior way of behaving.
No. I believe you're stupid and wanted you to know it. You're lost in a world of abstractions and nihilism and that is stupid. While you may consider me rude, you should reposition those thoughts. I want you to consider me honest from now.

Try this mantra "There goes millipodium! Boy, he sure is honest."

Milli you are pretty much saying that you understand me perfectly, and you pity my inferiority.
Yes.
What I’m getting at Milli is this: I don’t think I have said anything to indicate that I believe I belong to a special class of people that deserve favored treatment from others. If that was the case, then I would be being idealistic, and thus in contradiction.
Your various screeds against "idealists" as you call them, indicates otherwise.
Here is the definition of elitism Milli:

1.The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.
2.The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.
Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.
In this regard, I am not elitist.

Like you, I see somethings, some people, some books and some religions as inferior.

Elitism implies more than simply making the neccesary distinctions between inferrior and superior. So in that regard, I am not elitist.

We’re not so different after all, are we Milli?
Yes. we are. I believe you feel entitled to inflict your insanity on the world, that you should be deferred to in matters of "trancendant isness" or whatever your calling your illogic at this moment. You idealize nihilism and destruction.

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Post by Cory Duchesne » Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:13 am

Milli: Though I understand perfectly what you're saying Cory, I do not agree, and I pity your stupidity.


Cory: In this statement you perfectly illustrate the necessity of making a distinction between a superior way of behaving and an inferior way of behaving.

Milli: No. I believe you're stupid and wanted you to know it.
Why did you want me to know that I was stupid? Why did you ‘pity’ my stupidity?
While you may consider me rude, you should reposition those thoughts. I want you to consider me honest from now on.
Why should I suddenly believe you are honest? How come you didn’t bring this up before? Why all of the sudden now?

millipodium

Post by millipodium » Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:19 am

Cory Patrick wrote: Why did you ‘pity’ my stupidity?
It makes your life harder, and that's too bad.


Why should I suddenly believe you are honest? How come you didn’t bring this up before? Why all of the sudden now?
It came up now because you might have mistakenly considered me rude. I wanted you to know that the quality you seem to be seizing upon is honesty. I'm setting you straight.

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Post by Cory Duchesne » Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:21 am


Cory: Why did you ‘pity’ my stupidity?

Milli: It makes your life harder, and that's too bad.
Milli.

Ok, so you believe that life is easier for intelligent people, and harder for stupid people.

Makes sense to me.

So do you believe that, as a rule, people always discover they are stupid, only after they are stupid?

Or do you believe that people conscientiously choose to be stupid?

If the latter, is true, then why would someone consceintiously choose to do what makes life hard for them?

MKFaizi

Post by MKFaizi » Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:17 pm

Universal Whore wrote:
I’m starting to believe that you have an emotional bias towards the Arab population, are you of Arab decent by any chance?
Dear Dumb,

What kind of name do you think Faizi is -- Polish?

I do not have an emotional bias toward the so called Arab population. I do have an emotional bias against ignorance. The only thing you know about Arabs or Islamics is 9/11 and the seventy two virgins bullshit. You are entirely ignorant of Islam yet you have no trouble stating that it is the worst religion in the world. Did you even bother to read Dan's study of the Talmud and other things? I think Islam is just as bad as the other religions but it is not worse.

I will not go into great detail because I do not wish to bore others to tears. I was Muslim for several years when I was married to a Pakistani. His name was Faiz Mohyuddin Faizi. He died sixteen years ago. He was a devout Muslim -- Sunni but with a Sufic leaning. During his illness, he had contact with Sufis in Pakistan who sent him things to help his illness. They did not save him but neither did chemotherapy.

I became Muslim when I married not because I was religious but because I did not care about religion. I did not like Christianity and I did not like Islam any more. I became Muslim because I figured if we were going to have children, it would be better for them to be raised one way and not torn two ways. He died when our daughter was two and my son was two months. It was my intention to raise them as Muslims but, having moved away from the Pakistani community in Baltimore to rural Virginia, I did not keep it up.

I am definitely not any sort of Koranic scholar but I did live in that culture for several years. We were isolated from America even though we lived in America. The only way I heard spoken English was to hear it on radio or television. Faizi and I did converse in English with Urdu/Punjabi inflections but much of my time was either spent alone or among Punjabi speakers.

Faizi endeavored to pray toward Mecca five times a day. He seldom managed to do it that many times. He was doing good if he got it down three times. I mean, you don't just pray. You have to cleanse yourself inside and out first -- ablutions.

One of my best memories is of him praying in the living room with Roxanna jumping all over him -- climbing on his back; pulling his head up from the floor by his hair.

When he was done, I said, "I tried to keep her off of you."

"No, Begum. It is good for her to jump on me and pull my hair. This is how she learns."

Anyway, I will shut up. The point is that, yes, I am experienced in Islam and in Islamic culture. I am not biased toward Islam. I am fed up with ignorance and presumption and unwillingness to look at any possibility of blame OTHER THAN the TERRIBLE ISHMAELITES!!! THE TERRIBLE BEAST MAN!!

I have no hatred toward Jews. I simply cannot understand why it is perfectly all right for Israel to pummel Lebanon -- a country with a large population of Christians as well as Shi'ites and Sunnis. With the present situation, sympathy toward the Lebanese and antipathy toward Israel and the US will be on the increase.

I did not admonish you to lose the Hezbollah pic because I am sympathetic to Hezbollah. I am merely sick of the dude's face. Also, I feel that you are too ignorant to have earned the moral right to lampoon anything.

Faizi

millipodium

Post by millipodium » Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:47 pm

Cory Patrick wrote:

Cory: Why did you ‘pity’ my stupidity?

Milli: It makes your life harder, and that's too bad.
Milli.

Ok, so you believe that life is easier for intelligent people, and harder for stupid people.

Makes sense to me.
Sometimes, but not always.

So do you believe that, as a rule, people always discover they are stupid, only after they are stupid?
Sometimes they have a precognitive experience that they will become stupid.

Sometimes people just don't know they are stupid.

Some people are smart, but allow emotional dissatisfaction to pervert the direction of their personal evolution, nihilists, for example.
Or do you believe that people conscientiously choose to be stupid?

If the latter, is true, then why would someone consceintiously choose to do what makes life hard for them?
Because they're stupid.

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Post by Cory Duchesne » Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:22 am

Milli wrote:
Sometimes they have a precognitive experience that they will become stupid.
What event is trigging this precognitive experience?
Sometimes people just don't know they are stupid.
Would you call this involuntary stupidity then? Being stupid is not something they are consciously choosing, yet it is something they involuntarily are. No?
Some people are smart, but allow emotional dissatisfaction to pervert the direction of their personal evolution, nihilists, for example.
When a smart person allows his emotional dissatisfaction to pervert his ability to be smart, is he conscious that his emotions are gradually turning him into a stupid nihilist?

Or does he only a) go through his life thinking he is smart (when really he has become stupid) and sometimes b) realizes he has become stupid only after he has become stupid?
Cory: then why would someone consceintiously choose to do what makes life hard for them?


Milli: Because they're stupid.
Can you give me an example of the sort of human who deliberately does that which he clearly knows will make his life more of a struggle than it already is?
Last edited by Cory Duchesne on Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Cory Duchesne » Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:29 am

Milli, I'm going to bring the conversation we were having over in the hezbolah/israli thread, over to here. This thread probably wont be used for anything much at this point, the other one has too much traffic.

As I posted on the other thread:


Milli wrote:
I'd say less conflict is a favorable by-product of knowing stuff. Yes. People with no conflict within themselves are probably psychopathic in some way.
What is it that motivates people to know-stuff?

Personally, I would say it is both fear of injury and sympathy.

Would you agree that the act of learning and being less selfish is driven by fear and sympathy?

millipodium

Post by millipodium » Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:05 am

Cory Patrick wrote:Milli, I'm going to bring the conversation we were having over in the hezbolah/israli thread, over to here. This thread probably wont be used for anything much at this point, the other one has too much traffic.

As I posted on the other thread:


Milli wrote:
I'd say less conflict is a favorable by-product of knowing stuff. Yes. People with no conflict within themselves are probably psychopathic in some way.
What is it that motivates people to know-stuff?
To avoid problems which they determine may arise from ignorance. Or based on the advice or coercion from acquaintances, caretakers, and authority figures.

Personally, I would say it is both fear of injury and sympathy.

Would you agree that the act of learning and being less selfish is driven by fear and sympathy?
I'd say it's an intention to use the intellect for self preservation.

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Post by Ryan Rudolph » Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:16 am

Faizi wrote:
What kind of name do you think Faizi is -- Polish?
Since you have a long history as a muslim, I’ll retrain from the muslim jokes, my new pic mocks the British...

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Post by Tharan » Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:15 am

I am about 30% English, which obviously means I am also about 30% offended by your new pic.

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Post by Cory Duchesne » Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:46 am

Cory: What is it that motivates people to know-stuff?

Milli: To avoid problems which they determine may arise from ignorance. Or based on the advice or coercion from acquaintances, caretakers, and authority figures.
Why do people want to avoid problems? Do you agree that its because they fear injury?
Cory: Would you agree that the act of learning and being less selfish is driven by fear and sympathy?


Milli: I'd say it's an intention to use the intellect for self preservation.
What is it that drives a person to use his intellect for preserving his self?

Do you agree that it is 'fear of injury'?


Milli, you haven’t replied to my other questions I posted yesterday. Just in case you missed them, here they are again.


Milli wrote:

Sometimes they have a precognitive experience that they will become stupid.

What event is trigging this precognitive experience?

Milli: Sometimes people just don't know they are stupid.

Would you call this involuntary stupidity then? Being stupid is not something one is consciously choosing, yet it is something that one involuntarily is. No?

Milli: Some people are smart, but allow emotional dissatisfaction to pervert the direction of their personal evolution, nihilists, for example.

When a smart person allows his emotional dissatisfaction to pervert his ability to be smart, is he conscious that his emotions are gradually turning him into a stupid nihilist?

Or does he only:

(a) go through his life thinking he is smart (when really he has become stupid),

plus sometimes

(b) realizing he has become stupid, but only after he has become stupid?

Cory: then why would someone consceintiously choose to do what makes life hard for them?


Milli: Because they're stupid.
Can you give me an example of the sort of human who deliberately does that which he clearly knows will make his life more of a struggle than it already is?
Last edited by Cory Duchesne on Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

millipodium

Post by millipodium » Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:58 am

You're hilarious, corey.

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Post by Cory Duchesne » Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:09 am

Milli wrote,
You're hilarious, corey.
Do you think I am intentionally trying to be hilarious?

Or is me being an object of comedy, unintentional, involuntary?

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