The Hard Line By CP

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Cory Duchesne
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Post by Cory Duchesne » Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:14 pm

Milli: No. It's the "deserving of favored treatment" part you're ignoring.
Cory: An elitist favors being treated in a particular way, and they dislike being treated in other ways.

Milli: Everyone prefers to be treated well. That doesn't mean everyone is an elitist.
1)

I am not trying to argue that everyone is elitist.

I am trying to argue that most people convince themselves that they are ‘elite’

Do you agree that most people over-estimate themselves and carry unrealistic images of them selves?

And 2)

Everyone has different notions of what being treated ‘well’ means.

An elitist philosopher isn’t concerned with being treated well, in the same way your average citizen of America likes being treated well.

To treat a pig well, you give it a pen of muck to roll in.

Your average American citizen (like your average women) likes being told lies, they like things sugar coated, they like the truth over-simplified, distorted and turned into untruth.

In the meantime these gluttons of lies believe in the superiority of their own religion, god, family and country and will exploit, misuse, enslave people of other lands, and they feverishly support the bombing of other countries in order to maintain their unwise deluded notions of being elite.

So by saying: “everyone likes being treated well”, your perhaps missing out on the fact that the meaning of ‘well’ varies to a highly significant degree.

Lets retrace our steps old boy…..
Cory: it is impossible to not be an elitist as long as you regard a particular person or group of persons as inferior, which you milli just so happen to do. According to the definition of elitism Milli, you are an elitist.

you replied by saying……

Milli: No. It's the "deserving of favored treatment" part you're ignoring.

Then I said back: An elitist favors being treated in a particular way, and they dislike being treated in other ways – just like everyone else.

And finally you replied: Everyone prefers to be treated well. That doesn't mean everyone is an elitist.
Do you favor being treated the way most TV commercials treat you? Or the way most television sitcoms treat you?

It was not my intention to reduce this down to the stupid equation: wanting to be treated politely = being elitist.

I don't know about you milli, but I don't want to be 'treated' the way most people want to treat me.

Cory: Those who appear to be superior are favored by the elitist.

Milli: But not everyone plays favorites.
Here is a quote by you Milli: “Everyone is not equally my favorite”

A euphemistic substitution for saying: “I have favorites”.
Milli: Some people may recognize superior qualities, but NOT allow that recognition to affect their treatment of those possessing those superior qualities.
Do you recognize superior qualities in this message board? Do you treat all message boards the same? Here check out this message board: http://www.chatterhead.net/newage-chat.html

What message board would you prefer to write on? Why?

I'll tell you why milli.

Humans are more concerned with the quality of the interaction they have with others then they are concerned with merely saying what they believe to any old fool.

Humans prefer a particular quality of response from a group, and when they recognize more power in a group or individual, they gravitate toward that power in order to get a more powerful response. Sometimes consciously, sometimes unconsciously.
Cory: Thus, those who appear to be inferior are not to be treated as favorites.

Milli: Some people are nice and may treat people decently, even if they recognize inferior traits in those people. Not everyone is an asshole.
Just because I don’t favor being around a bum on the street, doesn’t mean I’m an asshole to him. Just because I don’t favor being around my parents (who can’t take their eyes off the television set whenever 'tiger woods' is playing) doesn’t mean I’m an asshole to them. I treat them politely, but I would rather not be around them. And thats because I demand a particular quality of interaction. Just like you Milli.
Cory: if someone were to walk up to you and start pushing you and calling you names, would you be indifferent? Or do you favor and even out of a sheer demand use force to achieve the treatment you feel you deserve, or you feel is right?

Milli: I would not prefer to be pushed around. That is true. That doesn't make me an elitist.
And I’m not saying that just because people have preferences it means their elitist. The difficulty you and I are having involves more then merely bridging these two thoughts together (which you seem to be having enough trouble with)

the two thoughts being:

1) An elitist favors being treated in a particular way, and they dislike being treated in other ways


2) An elitist regards a particular person or group of persons as inferior, while regarding others as superior.


I think what you find really difficult (above and beyond bridging these two facts together) is understanding how the evil tyrant and the good philosopher function in the same way.

The only difference is that one is deluded and the other is not.
Cory: I think if you are honest with yourself, you will realize that you do favor and even demand certain forms of treatment, and thus hate other forms of treatment.

Mili: Preferring fair treatment doesn't make one an elitist.
But preferring intelligent treatment does.
Cory: We are all elitists.

Milli: No. we're not.
What I meant was: most of us think we are of the elite, when really we are not.

I’ll admit it was sloppy to say: “we are all elitists”. However, my point was simply this: that each person gradually establishes an image of himself as being part of a superior whole, and thus the demand to be treated in a certain way establishes itself along with the belief in ones superiority.

This particular preference of treatment, if one is elite in a good sense or a bad sense, is quite taxing on your average, mediocre citizen (who often has elitist notions of himself).

Cory: Being an elitist, according to the dictionary definition, is about believing people should treat you in a way that you believe you deserve,

Milli: Not necessarily. It depends on if you afford others the same treatement you expect.
By treating others the way I want to be treated, I end up with not too many friends.

Many people I know want me to get drunk with them, get high, return flattery, engage in group sex, go see stupid movies, listen to stupid music, eat junk food, etc, etc.

I want people to initiate philosophical conversations with me, and renouce worldliness.

So again, by treating others the way I want to be treated, I end up with not too many friends – some times I end up being just plain hated.

Unfortunately the truth is not as simple and tidy as you seem to prefer it to be, milli.
Cory: AND, it’s about favoring and giving favorable treatment to those who appear to be superior.

Milli: But not everyone does this.
You do this Milli. Why else would you post so much on this form?

Why dont you spend more time at that new age forum I directed you to? The reaon why is because you prefer if not demand a particular quality of interacition, one that suits your intelligence.

People should be treated as THEY want to be treated, not as YOU want to be treated. Therefore, be in the company of those who share at least similar values to you, otherwise, your energies will be drained.
milli: I don't believe in good elitism. Thinking one may be proficient in one area, doesn't it make one elitist in the absence of a double standard of treatment.
You are not seeing yourself as you really are.

When you recognize superior qualities in something or someone, it effects your behavior. That’s why you are not wasting your time on a message board dedicated to Bon Jovi, Meatloaf, or some other washed up fool.
Cory: If his demands are not met, he perhaps retreats, perhaps uses force, or perhaps calls on others to use force for him.

Milli: Let's call the "good elitist" a "normal person who may have exceptional skills in some area".
I think its more right to say: to have an exceptional skill is to not be normal.
Milli: Seeking FAIR treatment is not a double standard, hence, he is not an elitist.
‘Fair’ treatment is a fundamental thing all people demand, but it is the ONLY thing mediocre people demand. Intelligent treatment is what a good elitist demands. Obsequious treatment is what a tyrant demands.
Cory: The good elitist is much lower maintenance, then the evil elitist, the tyrant.

Milli: You mean: Normal people are more easy going than elitists.
Actually, I wouldn’t call a true philosopher (a good elitist) easy going at all. He is extremely demanding of his fellow man.

If the philosopher’s fellow man doest like what the philosopher is saying, then the 'fellow man' is going to have to find a new place to play.
Cory: My philosophy is, get to know the person you are in relationship with and allow the relationship to progress to the degree that the other individual is behaving logically. If he doesnt seem to be logical, let him know what is confusing you.

Milli: I want to know why you need to cling to the concept of "good elitism", when we've already established that feeling one may actually be superior is not elitism absent a double standard of treatment.


The reason why I hold the concept of ‘good elitism’ is because I understand that the evil man (the tyrant) and the good man (the philosopher) are functioning in almost the exact same way – really, the only differentiating factor dividing the good man from the evil man, is intelligence. The evil man lacks the intelligence of the good man.

So, in other words, the elitist (good or bad) believes he is superior, and he demands a particular quality of intelligence from others. If he is bad, he demmands his fellow man to be exceptionally stupid. If he is intelligent, he demmands his fellow man to be exceptionally intelligent.

If the man is just plain mediocre, he demmands only fair treatment. Above and beyond that he preaches christian cliches such as: treat those as you want to be treated.

Those two qualities (the notion of superiority, and a quality of demand from others) are present in the true elitist philosopher and the evil tyrant.

The quality of the demand of the evil tyrant is relatively clever, but ultimately unintelligent and evil.

The demand of the true philosopher is absolutely intelligent and thus good.
Cory: All humans "demand special treatment”.

Milli: Some humans, after being properly socialized, only demand the same treatment they would give to others. This is not special treatment, nor are they elitists.
Yes, those humans are mediocre, meek, hypocritical, contradictory. In short – fools.


Milli: You're threatening to shut down the discussion if I don't agree with you on terms, even though you know exactly what I'm saying.

Cory: Does it make sense to spend your energy dealing with someone who doesn’t seem to be being logical?

Milli: No, it doesn't which is why I've considered ceasing this discussion with you. You're insane.
How havent you proven my point then? The elitist philsopher demands that his fellow man be intelligent and honest, other wise he wont bother with him.


Now what part of this post is illogical?

millipodium

Post by millipodium » Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:41 pm

you say you're not saying we're all elitists, but then you constantly return to that idea. Involuntarily or not, I don't know or care. You're simply a mess in the head.

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Post by Cory Duchesne » Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:50 am

Milli: you say you're not saying we're all elitists, but then you constantly return to that idea. Involuntarily or not, I don't know or care. You're simply a mess in the head
I'm basically saying that all humans are driven by fear and an insatiable desire for more power, more superiority. Gaining superiority implies a favored way of being treated.

Each individual expresses this force that they are involuntarily driven by according to his or her capacity/intelligence.

Ones capacity and intelligence is involuntary

Therefore you have intelliegent elitists (elitists who are actualy elite) and you you have deluded people who think they are elitist. You can be an elitist and not be truly elite. The inferior mans elitism is highly relative and is only valid in a very specific context - a contex which is easily undermined by those who are more intelligent.

millipodium

Post by millipodium » Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:21 am

Cory Patrick wrote:
Milli: you say you're not saying we're all elitists, but then you constantly return to that idea. Involuntarily or not, I don't know or care. You're simply a mess in the head
I'm basically saying that all humans are driven by fear and an insatiable desire for more power, more superiority. Gaining superiority implies a favored way of being treated.

Each individual expresses this force that they are involuntarily driven by according to his or her capacity/intelligence.

Ones capacity and intelligence is involuntary

Therefore you have intelliegent elitists (elitists who are actualy elite) and you you have deluded people who think they are elitist. You can be an elitist and not be truly elite. The inferior mans elitism is highly relative and is only valid in a very specific context - a contex which is easily undermined by those who are more intelligent.
You've completely twisted the definition though you claim to have consulted the dictionary. A double standard of treatment is the thing that defines elitism. And I assert a double standard of treatment is wrong EVEN IF someone IS ACTUALLY SUPERIOR, hence, there is no "good elitism". You're completely off.

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Post by Cory Duchesne » Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:27 am

What do you mean by double standard of treatment?

Refer to my latest postings on your 'my cult' thread if you want to here my latest thoughts on this 'double standard of treatment'.

Lets try to finish this up over at your 'my cult' thread.

What i'm saying is a hard a line to follow. But I think you have the smarts to do it milli

millipodium

Post by millipodium » Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:40 am

Cory Patrick wrote:What do you mean by double standard of treatment?

Refer to my latest postings on your 'my cult' thread if you want to here my latest thoughts on this 'double standard of treatment'.

Lets try to finish this up over at your 'my cult' thread.

What i'm saying is a hard a line to follow. But I think you have the smarts to do it milli
This is from dictionary.com
The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resource.
favored treatment is the key. a double standard of treatment is favored treatment.

I refuted you soundly on the other thread as well. Stop being an intentionally dense black hole of idiocy.

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Post by Cory Duchesne » Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:53 am

I refuted you as well. A much harder act to follow i'm sure

millipodium

Post by millipodium » Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:31 am

Cory Patrick wrote:I refuted you as well. A much harder act to follow i'm sure
You're a funny homunculus.

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Post by Cory Duchesne » Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:51 am

Yeah, a homunculous who just so happens to be your real biological father.

yeah, boy....

Your mama was a hard one to shake that night!

I tried to win the heart of a many girls in the bar, worked at it right until closing time - but being a homunculous I failed to woo the ladies of my fancy.

But your mama milli! Boy she was a wreck that night...whew....No one wanted anything to do with the ol' floozy.

Well, given I had no other options, and consider'n how hard she was dry-humpin up against me while we were dancing to the bars closing song - lynard skynard's free-bird - - well, I reckon I felt bad.

So I gave it to her in the back aly's - had her up against the dumpster.

Ya, thats right, i'm the motherfucker who named you sue.

Later homunculous junior.

millipodium

Post by millipodium » Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:59 am

Cory Patrick wrote:Yeah, a homunculous who just so happens to be your real biological father.

yeah, boy....

Your mama was a hard one to shake that night!

I tried to win the heart of a many girls in the bar, worked at it right until closing time - but being a homunculous I failed to woo the ladies of my fancy.

But your mama milli! Boy she was a wreck that night...whew....No one wanted anything to do with the ol' floozy.

Well, given I had no other options, and consider'n how hard she was dry-humpin up against me while we were dancing to the bars closing song - lynard skynard's free-bird - - well, I reckon I felt bad.

So I gave it to her in the back aly's - had her up against the dumpster.

Ya, thats right, i'm the motherfucker who named you sue.

Later homunculous junior.
Could you give me "classy" lessons?

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Post by Cher » Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:14 am

millipodium wrote:
Cory Patrick wrote:I refuted you as well. A much harder act to follow i'm sure
You're a funny homunculus.
What's a 'homunculus'? Is that like a carbuncle?

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Post by Cory Duchesne » Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:58 pm

No, a homonculus is someone who isnt a fully formed human. Like a sperm.

Millipodium should have been dribbling down his mothers leg.

Instead he's on the genius forum, struggling to find the ovum of enlightenment via peddling trendy insults, impressive only to the 13 year olds he smokes oregeno with in his moms basement.

millipodium

Post by millipodium » Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:10 pm

Cory Patrick wrote:No, a homonculus is someone who isnt a fully formed human. Like a sperm.

Millipodium should have been dribbling down his mothers leg.

Instead he's on the genius forum, struggling to find the ovum of enlightenment via peddling trendy insults, impressive only to the 13 year olds he smokes oregeno with in his moms basement.
Your points are so abosolutely proven wrong that fun and exciting insults are all I have to entertain myself.

Your brain is a mass of illogic.

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