1)Milli: No. It's the "deserving of favored treatment" part you're ignoring.
Cory: An elitist favors being treated in a particular way, and they dislike being treated in other ways.
Milli: Everyone prefers to be treated well. That doesn't mean everyone is an elitist.
I am not trying to argue that everyone is elitist.
I am trying to argue that most people convince themselves that they are ‘elite’
Do you agree that most people over-estimate themselves and carry unrealistic images of them selves?
And 2)
Everyone has different notions of what being treated ‘well’ means.
An elitist philosopher isn’t concerned with being treated well, in the same way your average citizen of America likes being treated well.
To treat a pig well, you give it a pen of muck to roll in.
Your average American citizen (like your average women) likes being told lies, they like things sugar coated, they like the truth over-simplified, distorted and turned into untruth.
In the meantime these gluttons of lies believe in the superiority of their own religion, god, family and country and will exploit, misuse, enslave people of other lands, and they feverishly support the bombing of other countries in order to maintain their unwise deluded notions of being elite.
So by saying: “everyone likes being treated wellâ€, your perhaps missing out on the fact that the meaning of ‘well’ varies to a highly significant degree.
Lets retrace our steps old boy…..
Do you favor being treated the way most TV commercials treat you? Or the way most television sitcoms treat you?Cory: it is impossible to not be an elitist as long as you regard a particular person or group of persons as inferior, which you milli just so happen to do. According to the definition of elitism Milli, you are an elitist.
you replied by saying……
Milli: No. It's the "deserving of favored treatment" part you're ignoring.
Then I said back: An elitist favors being treated in a particular way, and they dislike being treated in other ways – just like everyone else.
And finally you replied: Everyone prefers to be treated well. That doesn't mean everyone is an elitist.
It was not my intention to reduce this down to the stupid equation: wanting to be treated politely = being elitist.
I don't know about you milli, but I don't want to be 'treated' the way most people want to treat me.
Here is a quote by you Milli: “Everyone is not equally my favoriteâ€Cory: Those who appear to be superior are favored by the elitist.
Milli: But not everyone plays favorites.
A euphemistic substitution for saying: “I have favoritesâ€.
Do you recognize superior qualities in this message board? Do you treat all message boards the same? Here check out this message board: http://www.chatterhead.net/newage-chat.htmlMilli: Some people may recognize superior qualities, but NOT allow that recognition to affect their treatment of those possessing those superior qualities.
What message board would you prefer to write on? Why?
I'll tell you why milli.
Humans are more concerned with the quality of the interaction they have with others then they are concerned with merely saying what they believe to any old fool.
Humans prefer a particular quality of response from a group, and when they recognize more power in a group or individual, they gravitate toward that power in order to get a more powerful response. Sometimes consciously, sometimes unconsciously.
Just because I don’t favor being around a bum on the street, doesn’t mean I’m an asshole to him. Just because I don’t favor being around my parents (who can’t take their eyes off the television set whenever 'tiger woods' is playing) doesn’t mean I’m an asshole to them. I treat them politely, but I would rather not be around them. And thats because I demand a particular quality of interaction. Just like you Milli.Cory: Thus, those who appear to be inferior are not to be treated as favorites.
Milli: Some people are nice and may treat people decently, even if they recognize inferior traits in those people. Not everyone is an asshole.
And I’m not saying that just because people have preferences it means their elitist. The difficulty you and I are having involves more then merely bridging these two thoughts together (which you seem to be having enough trouble with)Cory: if someone were to walk up to you and start pushing you and calling you names, would you be indifferent? Or do you favor and even out of a sheer demand use force to achieve the treatment you feel you deserve, or you feel is right?
Milli: I would not prefer to be pushed around. That is true. That doesn't make me an elitist.
the two thoughts being:
1) An elitist favors being treated in a particular way, and they dislike being treated in other ways
2) An elitist regards a particular person or group of persons as inferior, while regarding others as superior.
I think what you find really difficult (above and beyond bridging these two facts together) is understanding how the evil tyrant and the good philosopher function in the same way.
The only difference is that one is deluded and the other is not.
But preferring intelligent treatment does.Cory: I think if you are honest with yourself, you will realize that you do favor and even demand certain forms of treatment, and thus hate other forms of treatment.
Mili: Preferring fair treatment doesn't make one an elitist.
What I meant was: most of us think we are of the elite, when really we are not.Cory: We are all elitists.
Milli: No. we're not.
I’ll admit it was sloppy to say: “we are all elitistsâ€. However, my point was simply this: that each person gradually establishes an image of himself as being part of a superior whole, and thus the demand to be treated in a certain way establishes itself along with the belief in ones superiority.
This particular preference of treatment, if one is elite in a good sense or a bad sense, is quite taxing on your average, mediocre citizen (who often has elitist notions of himself).
By treating others the way I want to be treated, I end up with not too many friends.
Cory: Being an elitist, according to the dictionary definition, is about believing people should treat you in a way that you believe you deserve,
Milli: Not necessarily. It depends on if you afford others the same treatement you expect.
Many people I know want me to get drunk with them, get high, return flattery, engage in group sex, go see stupid movies, listen to stupid music, eat junk food, etc, etc.
I want people to initiate philosophical conversations with me, and renouce worldliness.
So again, by treating others the way I want to be treated, I end up with not too many friends – some times I end up being just plain hated.
Unfortunately the truth is not as simple and tidy as you seem to prefer it to be, milli.
You do this Milli. Why else would you post so much on this form?Cory: AND, it’s about favoring and giving favorable treatment to those who appear to be superior.
Milli: But not everyone does this.
Why dont you spend more time at that new age forum I directed you to? The reaon why is because you prefer if not demand a particular quality of interacition, one that suits your intelligence.
People should be treated as THEY want to be treated, not as YOU want to be treated. Therefore, be in the company of those who share at least similar values to you, otherwise, your energies will be drained.
You are not seeing yourself as you really are.milli: I don't believe in good elitism. Thinking one may be proficient in one area, doesn't it make one elitist in the absence of a double standard of treatment.
When you recognize superior qualities in something or someone, it effects your behavior. That’s why you are not wasting your time on a message board dedicated to Bon Jovi, Meatloaf, or some other washed up fool.
I think its more right to say: to have an exceptional skill is to not be normal.Cory: If his demands are not met, he perhaps retreats, perhaps uses force, or perhaps calls on others to use force for him.
Milli: Let's call the "good elitist" a "normal person who may have exceptional skills in some area".
‘Fair’ treatment is a fundamental thing all people demand, but it is the ONLY thing mediocre people demand. Intelligent treatment is what a good elitist demands. Obsequious treatment is what a tyrant demands.Milli: Seeking FAIR treatment is not a double standard, hence, he is not an elitist.
Actually, I wouldn’t call a true philosopher (a good elitist) easy going at all. He is extremely demanding of his fellow man.Cory: The good elitist is much lower maintenance, then the evil elitist, the tyrant.
Milli: You mean: Normal people are more easy going than elitists.
If the philosopher’s fellow man doest like what the philosopher is saying, then the 'fellow man' is going to have to find a new place to play.
Cory: My philosophy is, get to know the person you are in relationship with and allow the relationship to progress to the degree that the other individual is behaving logically. If he doesnt seem to be logical, let him know what is confusing you.
Milli: I want to know why you need to cling to the concept of "good elitism", when we've already established that feeling one may actually be superior is not elitism absent a double standard of treatment.
The reason why I hold the concept of ‘good elitism’ is because I understand that the evil man (the tyrant) and the good man (the philosopher) are functioning in almost the exact same way – really, the only differentiating factor dividing the good man from the evil man, is intelligence. The evil man lacks the intelligence of the good man.
So, in other words, the elitist (good or bad) believes he is superior, and he demands a particular quality of intelligence from others. If he is bad, he demmands his fellow man to be exceptionally stupid. If he is intelligent, he demmands his fellow man to be exceptionally intelligent.
If the man is just plain mediocre, he demmands only fair treatment. Above and beyond that he preaches christian cliches such as: treat those as you want to be treated.
Those two qualities (the notion of superiority, and a quality of demand from others) are present in the true elitist philosopher and the evil tyrant.
The quality of the demand of the evil tyrant is relatively clever, but ultimately unintelligent and evil.
The demand of the true philosopher is absolutely intelligent and thus good.
Yes, those humans are mediocre, meek, hypocritical, contradictory. In short – fools.Cory: All humans "demand special treatmentâ€.
Milli: Some humans, after being properly socialized, only demand the same treatment they would give to others. This is not special treatment, nor are they elitists.
How havent you proven my point then? The elitist philsopher demands that his fellow man be intelligent and honest, other wise he wont bother with him.
Milli: You're threatening to shut down the discussion if I don't agree with you on terms, even though you know exactly what I'm saying.
Cory: Does it make sense to spend your energy dealing with someone who doesn’t seem to be being logical?
Milli: No, it doesn't which is why I've considered ceasing this discussion with you. You're insane.
Now what part of this post is illogical?