Where is the "Hezbollah & Israel" thread...
- Leyla Shen
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- Location: Flippen-well AUSTRALIA
Where is the "Hezbollah & Israel" thread...
...moderators?
- Diebert van Rhijn
- Posts: 6469
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- Ryan Rudolph
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- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:32 am
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I'll tell ya who destroyed my post, it was that damn hezabollah, the time has come to unite Genius Forum! Who's with me here?!
Silence...
Guys? Hey Guys?
Seriously though it couldnt have been Hazabollah, no one in that organization has the intelligence to hack a messageboard...
They can't even get their hands on precision guilded missiles, I mean come on, if you're gonna be an irrational warmonger, you might as well go all the way...
That would be like declaring yourself a sage, but still getting drunk on the weekends with your old high school buds.. Hey! kinda like Unwise!
So let that be a lesson to all the kids on home, if your gonna be evil go all the way with your evilness, and if your gonna be a sage go all the way with your sageness...
because it would be quite tragic to be remembered as a shoddy terrorist or a shoddy sage...
CP stands up tall widening his shoulders and sticking out his chest...
Silence...
Guys? Hey Guys?
Seriously though it couldnt have been Hazabollah, no one in that organization has the intelligence to hack a messageboard...
They can't even get their hands on precision guilded missiles, I mean come on, if you're gonna be an irrational warmonger, you might as well go all the way...
That would be like declaring yourself a sage, but still getting drunk on the weekends with your old high school buds.. Hey! kinda like Unwise!
So let that be a lesson to all the kids on home, if your gonna be evil go all the way with your evilness, and if your gonna be a sage go all the way with your sageness...
because it would be quite tragic to be remembered as a shoddy terrorist or a shoddy sage...
CP stands up tall widening his shoulders and sticking out his chest...
CP,
"From the ARABS: We have hacked onto your website because your government kills innocent lebanese people."
Then it went onto shoutouts to other hackers, like "THX to Ninja2b, Blkbrd, Sadim90..." Something like that.
Funny stuff.
This is funny, because just a few days ago they hacked another website I go to and typed some stupid message...something like:Seriously though it couldnt have been Hazabollah, no one in that organization has the intelligence to hack a messageboard...
"From the ARABS: We have hacked onto your website because your government kills innocent lebanese people."
Then it went onto shoutouts to other hackers, like "THX to Ninja2b, Blkbrd, Sadim90..." Something like that.
Funny stuff.
- Scott
- Ryan Rudolph
- Posts: 2490
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- Location: British Columbia, Canada
In the same way the lebanese must rebuild Beruit, I must rebuild this post. Here are some quotes from the Hezabollah leader and the Iranian president:
It is an interesting character study into the mind of the islamic fundamentalist:
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Hassan Nasrallah Quotes: Leader of Hezabollah Organization.
Would you allow a people to come from somewhere else and occupy a part of the United States, and set up an independent state, and, after 50 years, you would not be able to stay on this land?
What is illegal cannot be legal just because it has been 50 years. Occupation remains occupation, even if it's for hundreds of years.
We have no presence in Iraq, but certainly if the American troops come and attack Lebanon, without question, we will fight them.
We did not start a fight with America, and we don't want a war with America. If someone launches an attack, though, we will respond. We will not take rejection or humiliation. We do not want to fight.
We believe that it is our right to possess any weapon we choose to defend our country. It is our right to have weapons.
The Americans are surely mistaken if they think they can make peace without finding a real and fair solution to the Palestinian issue.
In man - in the history of mankind, this has happened many times, and occupation leaders hang on to the land that they're occupying. People fight to liberate their land. But in the end, the people's will is what achieves victory.
I am against any reconciliation with Israel.
However, there is no legal and legitimate state called Israel.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Iranian President: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad quotes:
“Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury,â€
“Iran is ready to transfer nuclear know-how to the
Islamic countries due to their need.â€
“We believe that atomic energy is a blessing given by God,â€
“As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map,â€
It is an interesting character study into the mind of the islamic fundamentalist:
-------------------------------------------------------------
Hassan Nasrallah Quotes: Leader of Hezabollah Organization.
Would you allow a people to come from somewhere else and occupy a part of the United States, and set up an independent state, and, after 50 years, you would not be able to stay on this land?
What is illegal cannot be legal just because it has been 50 years. Occupation remains occupation, even if it's for hundreds of years.
We have no presence in Iraq, but certainly if the American troops come and attack Lebanon, without question, we will fight them.
We did not start a fight with America, and we don't want a war with America. If someone launches an attack, though, we will respond. We will not take rejection or humiliation. We do not want to fight.
We believe that it is our right to possess any weapon we choose to defend our country. It is our right to have weapons.
The Americans are surely mistaken if they think they can make peace without finding a real and fair solution to the Palestinian issue.
In man - in the history of mankind, this has happened many times, and occupation leaders hang on to the land that they're occupying. People fight to liberate their land. But in the end, the people's will is what achieves victory.
I am against any reconciliation with Israel.
However, there is no legal and legitimate state called Israel.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Iranian President: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad quotes:
“Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury,â€
“Iran is ready to transfer nuclear know-how to the
Islamic countries due to their need.â€
“We believe that atomic energy is a blessing given by God,â€
“As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map,â€
- Dan Rowden
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- Contact:
The site's MySQL database recently crashed as some of you may have noticed. In fixing it Kevin may have been forced to get rid of that thread. Or, he may have done something else with it; I'm not sure, but I did notice some weird anomalies. He's gone away for a couple of days but I'll ask him about it when he returns.
Dan Rowden
Dan Rowden
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MKFaizi
Yes, I did notice the annoying crashes. I wrote to Dan and asked about what happened to the thread. It was pretty interesting. Too bad it disappeared.
I think it does nothing to try to revive it from the beginning. The shit is unfolding so quickly every day that it is pretty hard to keep up. No one even knows what is happening in Iraq or even cares.
I loathe the civilian casualties -- especially on the Lebanese side -- most of the casualites. I am disgusted with the way Israel is granted carte blanche by the US.
Fuck Israel. The modern world needs to be having some serious discussion with Syria and Iran. You give respect, you get respect.
The real bottom line is getting Bush out of the White House. Dude has no concept of diplomacy or the meaning of diplomacy. It is not all flowers and candy.
Where is Richard Nixon when we finally need him?
Nixon was a domestic flop but he could charm -- well, no, that is too generous -- he could pull off some unexpected foreign policy crap. Looks real good about now.
Israel needs to back off. I am tired of the soap opera of the little prince defending himself. Israel is a US transplant. A modern, technologically advanced US transplant.
I am pretty sick of the drama.
Faizi
I think it does nothing to try to revive it from the beginning. The shit is unfolding so quickly every day that it is pretty hard to keep up. No one even knows what is happening in Iraq or even cares.
I loathe the civilian casualties -- especially on the Lebanese side -- most of the casualites. I am disgusted with the way Israel is granted carte blanche by the US.
Fuck Israel. The modern world needs to be having some serious discussion with Syria and Iran. You give respect, you get respect.
The real bottom line is getting Bush out of the White House. Dude has no concept of diplomacy or the meaning of diplomacy. It is not all flowers and candy.
Where is Richard Nixon when we finally need him?
Nixon was a domestic flop but he could charm -- well, no, that is too generous -- he could pull off some unexpected foreign policy crap. Looks real good about now.
Israel needs to back off. I am tired of the soap opera of the little prince defending himself. Israel is a US transplant. A modern, technologically advanced US transplant.
I am pretty sick of the drama.
Faizi
- Dan Rowden
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Did you use my new email address? I posted it in the "Genius News has a new home" thread. If you used my old Bigpond address I won't have recieved it.MKFaizi wrote:Yes, I did notice the annoying crashes. I wrote to Dan and asked about what happened to the thread. It was pretty interesting. Too bad it disappeared.
Dan
Fuck Israel. The modern world needs to be having some serious discussion with Syria and Iran. You give respect, you get respect.
I very much doubt it. Why don't you face it - the islam religion will never be allowed respect in its current form by people who are capable of thinking past their immeidate emotions - nor should it.
pity about the tread going - I hadn't checked back in here for a few days. Wondering what may have been said.
I very much doubt it. Why don't you face it - the islam religion will never be allowed respect in its current form by people who are capable of thinking past their immeidate emotions - nor should it.
pity about the tread going - I hadn't checked back in here for a few days. Wondering what may have been said.
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MKFaizi
Jamesh wrote:
Your Christian stinking American God Blessed Better THAN ANYONE kind of makes me want to throw up.
Faizi
Kind of like Christianity, Arnold Layne.the islam religion will never be allowed respect in its current form by people who are capable of thinking past their immeidate emotions - nor should it.
Your Christian stinking American God Blessed Better THAN ANYONE kind of makes me want to throw up.
Faizi
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MKFaizi
Dan,
Well, I thought that I used the new one. I was aware of the change. I just looked in my sent box and I did send it to your new address.
No big deal but I did wonder what happened to the thread.
Faizi
Did you use my new email address? I posted it in the "Genius News has a new home" thread. If you used my old Bigpond address I won't have recieved it.
Well, I thought that I used the new one. I was aware of the change. I just looked in my sent box and I did send it to your new address.
No big deal but I did wonder what happened to the thread.
Faizi
- Leyla Shen
- Posts: 3851
- Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:12 pm
- Location: Flippen-well AUSTRALIA
Wot?T’mas: Your mind is our only design.
Really? I’ll repost this weekend, then.Some things are best left ... unsaid.
I reckon James did it. I’d accuse the prostitute but I don’t think he has it in him -- he’s a Jew. I can smell it. On second thought, I wouldn’t put anything past a Jew -- they have a tendency to fuck their way to the “top.â€Diebert: It's way more romantic to suspect a hacker though.
Thank you. It will be good if he has a back up copy, or something.Dan: He's gone away for a couple of days but I'll ask him about it when he returns.
[laughs] Mm-hm. Don’t fret. If Kevin can’t resurrect it, I’ll start something anew.James: pity about the tread going - I hadn't checked back in here for a few days.
.
- Dan Rowden
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Well, there's so much new happening that a new approach to the issue might be warranted anyway. Israel is even bombing UN facilities. Great work, guys.....I mean, I know wanting to get rid of Hizbollah is a legitimate aim, but fair dinkum......roads, ariports, ports, a lighthouse? What's up with that?
- Ryan Rudolph
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Shen wrote:
Or perhaps that was me...
Either way I'm still better than you, and if I'm not I'll fuck my way to the top until I am, I'll even fuck you if it comes down to it although it would need to be incredibly extreme measures before I'd resort to such a thing.
And if you must know I do not care if the arabs destroy the jews or vice versa, I personally believe that the Israel should be dismantled and the people should flee to the west and allow the arabs to reclaim the territory.
Diebert is right, it is an artifical state. A big mistake by the west to begin with. Israel as a state is simply the result of a global guilt felt after world war II by the world.
Well, well, well, look who comes out with her guns a blazing. Little Miss Shen. You've probably forgotten this little one, but the last time our paths met you ran away like a cowardly little girl with your tail between your legs....I’d accuse the prostitute but I don’t think he has it in him -- he’s a Jew. I can smell it. On second thought, I wouldn’t put anything past a Jew -- they have a tendency to fuck their way to the “top.â€
Or perhaps that was me...
Either way I'm still better than you, and if I'm not I'll fuck my way to the top until I am, I'll even fuck you if it comes down to it although it would need to be incredibly extreme measures before I'd resort to such a thing.
And if you must know I do not care if the arabs destroy the jews or vice versa, I personally believe that the Israel should be dismantled and the people should flee to the west and allow the arabs to reclaim the territory.
Diebert is right, it is an artifical state. A big mistake by the west to begin with. Israel as a state is simply the result of a global guilt felt after world war II by the world.
Last edited by Ryan Rudolph on Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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MKFaizi
I am starting to wonder about that legitimacy. Hezbollah has been fixed on the southern borders of Lebanon for some time. Considering Israel's aggression, small wonder that a so called terrorist group was required for defense.I mean, I know wanting to get rid of Hizbollah is a legitimate aim, but fair dinkum......roads
I say that with full realization that many -- most -- Lebonese do not have love for Hezbollah. Given the hideousness of Israel's attacks on civilian targets, the tide may be changing.
I have long heard it said that Israel must be aggressive because of its position. Considering the US military support given to Israel and the fact that the US has supported Israel from its inception; also the fact that modern Israel was formed by persons with advanced education garnered from western countries.
I find it to be suspicious that the same right wingers are promoting Israel that -- in the same breath -- despise the so called Jewish owned left wing media. I don't get that -- nigga in the woodpile, I reckon.
The attack today on UN observers was a very arrogant act.
I have long thought that Israel should be transferred to Nebraska or some other rural western US state. The Iranian president said the same thing some time back for which he is considered to be a madman. Dude is probably nuts -- me, too, for that matter -- but I do kind of think -- given US support for nearly sixty years -- might be better to put Israel in the mainland. Might do in Tennessee -- near Dollywood.
I am serious and I do not mean to make light of things. I think it is a fine thing for Jews to have a homeland. But does it have to be next door to Syria and a stone's throw from Iran?
Of course, if you put Israel in Nebraska, I reckon the Mormans might attack. Actually, the Israelis might attack the Mormans.
All right. Got it. Let's put Israel in Utah. Divide Utah into Israel and Utah. Let the Mormans and the Jews duke it out. Obviously, the US would continue to support Israel.
Whatever. I do think that Israel is so arrogant that it attacked and killed UN observers.
Pretty bad. You do have to wonder who is terrorist and who is terrorist.
Imagine if an Arabic group had killed UN observers. TERRORISTS!
But Israelis did it. So, it is open to debate. Had Hezbollah killed the observers -- I can hear it -- Third World barbarians; fundamentalists; Al Qaeda; TERRORISTS; Ishmael -- the ape boy -- Muslims from Hell.
The double standard of racism and religious prejudice and westen ignorance is astounding. Pretty sickening hypocrisy. Judeao-Christian pomposity and I have seen it from certain enlightened sages here -- astonishing ignorance.
The world is the world and you can detach yourself to kingdom come but you are still in it.
I do not like Islam as it is practiced -- don't like seeing females waling around in chadors and burqas. But the pretense of Christianity and Buddhism is just as bad.
A Christian is a Muslim in reverse. A Buddhist in the West is a cop out -- a Christian who can't stand the heat.
I do not like what I am seeing in Lebanon. Last thing I could want is an attack on the US but I can kind of see it coming and it won't have a thing to do with Al Qaeda. Could be France.
I do not think that a new government will solve everything but I do think that things will have to improve under a new president in 2008. Won't be no more Bushes. Had our fill of Bushes.
God knows, the world needs a cooling down period. I do not think it will be Hillary Clinton.
I simply cannot believe this Israeli crap. I listen to right wing radio. Pure hate. They want to kill every Muslim possible -- no matter where or how. The "Mohammeds." The virgin killers.
Hard for me to reconcile that. They used to hate Jews.
Faizi
[/quote]
- Dan Rowden
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Israel might legitimately feel somewhat insecure regardign Hizbollah (despit thre being litte aggression this group since about 1983) due to the increasing support from Syriia and Iran. And, as we know, historically Israel has tended to respond in rather extreme ways to the perception of threat.MKFaizi wrote:I am starting to wonder about that legitimacy. Hezbollah has been fixed on the southern borders of Lebanon for some time. Considering Israel's aggression, small wonder that a so called terrorist group was required for defense.I mean, I know wanting to get rid of Hizbollah is a legitimate aim, but fair dinkum......roads
That's quite likely, or alternatively they will blame Hizbollah for causing this. Hard to say which. However, it's fairly obvious that the reason that a group such as the "Palestinians" have regard for an organisation such as Hamas is that they need the idea that at least someone is seeking to protect them and push their agenda for fair treatment, something that they have not experienced since Isreal was formally created.I say that with full realization that many -- most -- Lebonese do not have love for Hezbollah. Given the hideousness of Israel's attacks on civilian targets, the tide may be changing.
I hear that all the time too, but it's obviously bullshit. Israel's actual existence is not in question or under threat from anyone; never has been. Couldn't be.I have long heard it said that Israel must be aggressive because of its position.
Yes, this is something that a lot of people don't even know - that much if not most of the current population of Isreal are in a sense foreigners. This is just another cause for angst amongst the badly treated Arabs of the region. It wasn't "local" Jews who pushed for a Jewish State, it was the European Jews who had begun to enter the region from back in the 1880s. Jews had lived beside Arabs and Xians in relative peace for a long time prior to that.Considering the US military support given to Israel and the fact that the US has supported Israel from its inception; also the fact that modern Israel was formed by persons with advanced education garnered from western countries.
Thre are some people who theorise that the US support for Israel is really only a strategic measure and that Israel's usefulness in that regard will end when the US gains its own strategic control of the mid-east. The theories make a certain amount of sense.I find it to be suspicious that the same right wingers are promoting Israel that -- in the same breath -- despise the so called Jewish owned left wing media. I don't get that -- nigga in the woodpile, I reckon.
It seems clear that Israel does not want the UN to have a role in any peace-keeping activity after this is over. I guess they might be a bit peeved at the UN forcing them over the years to have to willfully ignore more than 60 resolutions against them.The attack today on UN observers was a very arrogant act.
Well, that'll never happen unless there's a big o'l wall in Nebraska they can wail at.. At least Arabs can face east wherever they are.I have long thought that Israel should be transferred to Nebraska or some other rural western US state.
Jews have a historical right to be where they are. But in hindsight it might have been smart for the UN to have taken up Brazil's offer to create a Jewish State in their territory. Would have avoided a lot of trouble if they had.The Iranian president said the same thing some time back for which he is considered to be a madman. Dude is probably nuts -- me, too, for that matter -- but I do kind of think -- given US support for nearly sixty years -- might be better to put Israel in the mainland. Might do in Tennessee -- near Dollywood.
Since that's where Jerusalem is I guess the answer is probably "yes". But it's not the proximity of Jews to Arabs that is or has ever been the problem. The problem is that when the state of Israel was created, a minority people (with only around 7% land ownership and an increasing population of "foreign" Jews) was given 55% of the carved up territory (displacing more than 3 million Arabs) and has been actively trying to expand ever since. That kind of thing tends to piss people off, especially when Muslim and Christian refugees are not being allowed to return to their homes in the current Jewish state and Israeli peace negotiators refuse to even discuss the possibility of applying this UN guaranteed right.I am serious and I do not mean to make light of things. I think it is a fine thing for Jews to have a homeland. But does it have to be next door to Syria and a stone's throw from Iran?
It is arguable that many of these attacks have the motive of destroying the ability of people in Jordan to relate what is actually happening there to the world. It's also possible that the IDF is just stupid and inept.Whatever. I do think that Israel is so arrogant that it attacked and killed UN observers.
Only Arabs are terrorists. Only Arabs are fanatics and fundamentalists. Jews are all freedom loving democratic liberals. Don't you get that by now? Geez, Ma, get an edumacation will ya..?Imagine if an Arabic group had killed UN observers. TERRORISTS!
Funny, I find it kind of sexy. Leaves a hell of a lot to the imagination and imagination is arguably the best part of sexuality.I do not like Islam as it is practiced -- don't like seeing females waling around in chadors and burqas.
I would like to see France attack the US with BMDs (Bagels of Mass Destruction) or DUFLs (Depleted Uranium French Loafs).I do not like what I am seeing in Lebanon. Last thing I could want is an attack on the US but I can kind of see it coming and it won't have a thing to do with Al Qaeda. Could be France.
The problem is that Repubs and Demos have a tendency to behave in eerily similar ways when it comes to foreign policy matters. But I agree anything would be better than the current neo-con arsehole agenda. Anything to get Condosleeza off the world stage, frankly...I do not think that a new government will solve everything but I do think that things will have to improve under a new president in 2008. Won't be no more Bushes. Had our fill of Bushes.
No, she's a a bit of a moral zealot herself, even if of a lefty persuasion. Beware anyone who speaks in terms of legislating morality.God knows, the world needs a cooling down period. I do not think it will be Hillary Clinton.
Pro-Zionism is very fashinable in the US these days, especially amongist certain Xian groups. But it's really all to do with their stupid "end-time" beliefs anyway. It's not any kind of educated, thoughtful support for the nation of Israel.I simply cannot believe this Israeli crap. I listen to right wing radio. Pure hate. They want to kill every Muslim possible -- no matter where or how. The "Mohammeds." The virgin killers. Hard for me to reconcile that. They used to hate Jews.
And it's funny to me that when people deride certain Arabs for claiming that Israel should not exist they fail to understand that it's not, of itself, an entirely illegitimate stance. They are actually perfectly entitled to that opinion (when you consider how Israel was in fact created). It's just that they are not entitled to unilaterally take violent action to achieve their ends. That sort of the thing is the sole right and province of the US. I mean, who do these Arabs think they are? Yankees?
Dan Rowden
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MKFaizi
Israel will always be the favored ally in the region. Simply because they are not Muslim and are not considered as big a threat as any other country in the region.drowden wrote:
Thre are some people who theorise that the US support for Israel is really only a strategic measure and that Israel's usefulness in that regard will end when the US gains its own strategic control of the mid-east. The theories make a certain amount of sense.
Well, if they had just kept the first one, there wouldn't be 59 more...It seems clear that Israel does not want the UN to have a role in any peace-keeping activity after this is over. I guess they might be a bit peeved at the UN forcing them over the years to have to willfully ignore more than 60 resolutions against them.
UN is fairly worthless anyway. Unfortunate but true.
It is not as simple as that though. Muslims like their historic places too, and it just so happens that Jerusalem is the third most holy city within Islam. The argument goes both ways.Well, that'll never happen unless there's a big o'l wall in Nebraska they can wail at.. At least Arabs can face east wherever they are.
No, they really have no more right to be where they are than some Native American would have to come claim my house. If we tried to set everything back to how it was in history we would have a lot of problems. Besides, fact is that most Israelis aren't even middle-eastern Jews; they're white.Jews have a historical right to be where they are. But in hindsight it might have been smart for the UN to have taken up Brazil's offer to create a Jewish State in their territory. Would have avoided a lot of trouble if they had.
The only two legitimate arguments I've heard for creating a Jewish homeland is the never-again-the-holocaust argument and then 'wtf are we gonna do with all these people the nazis kicked out of their homes?' argument. The fact that Jews were offered a homeland with unargued borders and no conflict shows that zionism is truly just another version of imperialism.
You know, it is very very rare that I am willing to attribute stupidity to a national government. I think most of them know what they're doing and are smart... which leaves malice.It is arguable that many of these attacks have the motive of destroying the ability of people in Jordan to relate what is actually happening there to the world. It's also possible that the IDF is just stupid and inept.
you laugh, but I've seen the argument...Only Arabs are terrorists. Only Arabs are fanatics and fundamentalists. Jews are all freedom loving democratic liberals. Don't you get that by now? Geez, Ma, get an edumacation will ya..?
I've actually heard people say that before but it still strikes me as funny. I mean, so the opposite of the point!Funny, I find it kind of sexy. Leaves a hell of a lot to the imagination and imagination is arguably the best part of sexuality.I do not like Islam as it is practiced -- don't like seeing females waling around in chadors and burqas.
Given her husband this is kind of funny.No, she's a a bit of a moral zealot herself, even if of a lefty persuasion. Beware anyone who speaks in terms of legislating morality.
Yeah... everyone knows only us yanks and our buddies the israelis are allowed to pull shit like that...I mean, who do these Arabs think they are? Yankees?
This really worrys me, too.I simply cannot believe this Israeli crap. I listen to right wing radio. Pure hate. They want to kill every Muslim possible -- no matter where or how. The "Mohammeds." The virgin killers. Hard for me to reconcile that. They used to hate Jews.
-Rory
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MKFaizi
I simply cannot believe this Israeli crap. I listen to right wing radio. Pure hate. They want to kill every Muslim possible -- no matter where or how. The "Mohammeds." The virgin killers. Hard for me to reconcile that. They used to hate Jews.
Good post, well taken, Rory.This really worrys me, too.
Your worry is appreciated by me. Mike Savage has a large audience.
I am absolutely certain that the Israelis do not hate Muslims in the way that Savage promotes hatred of them. As Dan pointed out, before the influx of foreigners in the region and the formation o
Kf Israel, Jews and Arabs lived pretty peacefully -- like Hindus and Muslims in India -- more cultural and religious differences between Muslim and Hindu than Arab/Muslim and Jew.
On the Savage show this evening, he was speaking of how England has allowed the "vermin" of Pakistan to take over their country. Well, some of them cockroaches are family to me.
I have always said that Pakis spread like cockroaches over the planet. There is reason to refer to London as Londonabad. I lived with Pakistanis. Most were typical immigrants -- idealizing the Old Country but not willing to go back there to live.
When my husband left Pakistan, he lived in Germany for a while. He considered Germany to be a paradise of cleanliness. Wonderfully spotless. Then, he decided to come to America.
When he embarked in New York City, he thought, "Allah! I am back in Pakistan."
No offense to NYC. I love the town. But that is how he saw it when he first got there.
All the Paks I knew worked and paid taxes. Once they became citizens, they tended to be on the Republican side of things -- real pro America crap. Many Paks got into motel management and came to own lower rung motels. Many of them who started like that now own higher class motels. Many Paks in the US became gas station owners -- still a Pak/Bangladesh thing even here in southwest Virginia. They are an enterprising people willing to work from the ground up. I knew one man in Maryland who owned a couple of gas stations and lived in the suburbs supporting a family of ten or so. All of his kids went to college.
It takes a couple of generations for people to assimilate to a new culture. It is painful and I think the second generation suffers the most. It is hard for a girl brought up in the states with old country parents and she wants be be a cheerleader. She wants to date. She wants to go to the prom. The teenage boy does not want to go to Mosque. He wants to ride his dirtbike. He is sick and tired of the dudes in shelwar kameez drinking chai and yammering in Punjabi; and he sees no point in praying five frickin times a day and all the cleansing rituals that go with that. He loves blonde haired girls more than anything.
Well, I digress and I apologize.
Islam and Judeaism have much in common. You don't eat pork and you eat only Kosher, for instance. Both religions respect Jesus as a prophet but neither of them believe in him as son of God.
I have followed the war in Iraq since before it started and I could comprehend that. I have always thought it sucked and was based on lies but I could comprehend it. Even the right wing nut, Savage, was saying this evening that we are losing the war and that far more Iraqis have died since the overthrow of Saddam than who were massacred by Saddam.
No shit. In a two month period, three thousand Iraqis have been killed.
I fully realize that Saddam was a cruel and extremely nasty man. His slaying of Kurds and his massacre of Shi'ites. But look at what he was suppressing. Don't make it right but you can see the reason behind it, however senseless such reason might seem to more civilized persons.
But, then, maybe not.
Faizi
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MKFaizi
Dan,
Having said that, I must say that I have no hatred of Israelis and it is just fine and dandy with me personally if they stay in the middle east -- exactly where they are. Just does not seem to be working out all that great over the past sixty years.
I have lived in threatening neighborhoods many times in my life. I learned to cope with that. Some people can't. Some people can understand and accept differences and some people can't.
And that goes both ways. I do not give a flying fuck about race or skin color. Utterly stupid. Don't care a hang whether someone is white or Paki or Jewish or African or whatever else. But some people do -- including Jews and Paks and Africans. Just can't get past that cultural, racial barrier that I cannot see as a barrier.
Speaking with an older coworker today, she said, "It is fine for whites and blacks to be friends but I cannot see interracial marriage."
I understand where she is coming from. She is old school but I hate to break it to her -- there is not that much difference between white and black any more. In this rural country, there is a lot of mixture. Near everybody got a nigga or a cracka in the woodpile.
I mean, get over it.
However, I realize many people can't get over it and I reckon that includes the transplanted Israel and the currently ousted Palestinians. Just this ancient stinking tribal thing. Stinking religious archetype. It is goddam old and getting older by the minute.
Why does the modern world put up with the crap when it threatens the planet?
It does kind of make me wonder what would happen if the world simply ignored it? I know that is not going to happen but it is worth a good IF. I am imagining a news blackout. What if CNN took up dog stories and videos of flowers rather than focusing on this crap? Put on some cooking shows. Ball games. Interview Madonna or, even better, Britney Spears.
I have not listened to CNN in days -- since this crap started. Not because I do not want to be informed. I am informed. But it is the same old crap.
I am not a media blamer but it might be interesting to see what would happen if the whole thing was ignored. Kind of like putting a kid in time out. Works for some kids. Never worked for mine. They set their bedrooms on fire when I put them in time out. Terrorists. It was the Paki blood.
So much for that idea.
Unfortunately, I have to stop for now.
Faizi
If Israel was a legitimate country, it could legitimately feel insecure. But it is not wholly legitimate. It is a country of transplants from Europe and the US, backed by the US. There are currently American citizens fighting in the Israeli army.Israel might legitimately feel somewhat insecure regardign Hizbollah (despit thre being litte aggression this group since about 1983) due to the increasing support from Syriia and Iran. And, as we know, historically Israel has tended to respond in rather extreme ways to the perception of threat.
Having said that, I must say that I have no hatred of Israelis and it is just fine and dandy with me personally if they stay in the middle east -- exactly where they are. Just does not seem to be working out all that great over the past sixty years.
I have lived in threatening neighborhoods many times in my life. I learned to cope with that. Some people can't. Some people can understand and accept differences and some people can't.
And that goes both ways. I do not give a flying fuck about race or skin color. Utterly stupid. Don't care a hang whether someone is white or Paki or Jewish or African or whatever else. But some people do -- including Jews and Paks and Africans. Just can't get past that cultural, racial barrier that I cannot see as a barrier.
Speaking with an older coworker today, she said, "It is fine for whites and blacks to be friends but I cannot see interracial marriage."
I understand where she is coming from. She is old school but I hate to break it to her -- there is not that much difference between white and black any more. In this rural country, there is a lot of mixture. Near everybody got a nigga or a cracka in the woodpile.
I mean, get over it.
However, I realize many people can't get over it and I reckon that includes the transplanted Israel and the currently ousted Palestinians. Just this ancient stinking tribal thing. Stinking religious archetype. It is goddam old and getting older by the minute.
Why does the modern world put up with the crap when it threatens the planet?
It does kind of make me wonder what would happen if the world simply ignored it? I know that is not going to happen but it is worth a good IF. I am imagining a news blackout. What if CNN took up dog stories and videos of flowers rather than focusing on this crap? Put on some cooking shows. Ball games. Interview Madonna or, even better, Britney Spears.
I have not listened to CNN in days -- since this crap started. Not because I do not want to be informed. I am informed. But it is the same old crap.
I am not a media blamer but it might be interesting to see what would happen if the whole thing was ignored. Kind of like putting a kid in time out. Works for some kids. Never worked for mine. They set their bedrooms on fire when I put them in time out. Terrorists. It was the Paki blood.
So much for that idea.
I say that with full realization that many -- most -- Lebanese do not have love for Hezbollah. Given the hideousness of Israel's attacks on civilian targets, the tide may be changing.
I do not think they will blame Hezbollah. I think they will blame the US and Israel. You are very correct in saying that Palestineans will have regard for anything that is sympathetic to their need for validation and protection. I think this is part of the reason Hezbollah has been positioned for a long time in southern Lebanon.That's quite likely, or alternatively they will blame Hizbollah for causing this. Hard to say which. However, it's fairly obvious that the reason that a group such as the "Palestinians" have regard for an organisation such as Hamas is that they need the idea that at least someone is seeking to protect them and push their agenda for fair treatment, something that they have not experienced since Isreal was formally created.
No, because it has long existed. It is the formal consolidation of a transplanted and illegitimate government that is in question and is resented and hated. My father is pretty ignorant and even he sees that problem. He remembers well when the US backed the formation of Israel.Israel's actual existence is not in question or under threat from anyone; never has been. Couldn't be.
Considering the US military support given to Israel and the fact that the US has supported Israel from its inception; also the fact that modern Israel was formed by persons with advanced education garnered from western countries.
Hard to believe people are that ignorant. I am hardly a history buff but I know that much. Yet, I am sure that you are right about that. Everything is all the evil fault of the Ishmaelites.Yes, this is something that a lot of people don't even know - that much if not most of the current population of Isreal are in a sense foreigners. This is just another cause for angst amongst the badly treated Arabs of the region. It wasn't "local" Jews who pushed for a Jewish State, it was the European Jews who had begun to enter the region from back in the 1880s. Jews had lived beside Arabs and Xians in relative peace for a long time prior to that.
Does make sense. But I think it is now outdated. The US, though clearly still oil dependent is finally beginning to take some steps toward alternatives. Once that is done, I doubt that the US will have any interest in the Middle East. I realize that this will take some time to develop but I do think we are headed in that direction. This oil thing has to stop.Some people assume that the US support for Israel is really only a strategic measure and that Israel's usefulness in that regard will end when the US gains its own strategic control of the mid-east. The theories make a certain amount of sense.
Unfortunately, I have to stop for now.
Faizi
You officially win for best quote of the evening! This former New Yorker is laughing quite loudly. I've not been to Pakistan, but if that is anything like India that's even funnier. :)When he embarked in New York City, he thought, "Allah! I am back in Pakistan."
What are we going to do? Play world police? We've seen how that has worked out in Iraq. The US can't afford another military intervention right now and I don't think anyone else can either.Why does the modern world put up with the crap when it threatens the planet?
You know, the Israelis and future-Israelis I've known (future israeli is an American kid who said he was moving to Israel as soon as he turned 18 and was allowed to) have gotten on quite well with the Palestinians I've known. We used to have a group of us - we were the Model UN members for my university only really it was just an excuse to leave school and get the university to pay for a hotel room (dont tell on me!) Anyway we had myself, a palestinian girl and an Israeli guy. A few times we would bug out of the official meetings and discuss politics and religion and it was a lot of fun and no one fought at all.I am absolutely certain that the Israelis do not hate Muslims in the way that Savage promotes hatred of them. As Dan pointed out, before the influx of foreigners in the region and the formation o
Kf Israel, Jews and Arabs lived pretty peacefully -- like Hindus and Muslims in India -- more cultural and religious differences between Muslim and Hindu than Arab/Muslim and Jew.
I know this ignores the fact that the worst of them aren't talking to me because they're still in Israel/Palestine unwilling to leave, but it surprised all of us who were involved.
It should be pointed out, too, that the Muslims and Hindus did not always live peacefully in India. They had to create Pakistan out of the northern chunk of India and allow those Muslims in southern india who wanted to move to do so before they had relative peace.
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MKFaizi
Dan wrote:
My objection to the chador and the burqa is that, often, a woman does not have a choice. Granted, many women given a choice would still go out in a burqa. Can be very ingrained -- they would feel that they were naked unless they were wearing this tent thing with eye holes.
What bothers me most about the wearing of chador and burqa is that it generally means a woman has no freedom. They often are not allowed to drive cars. In Pakistan back in the eighties, many women were driving cars. I am not sure about that now. In Saudi Arabia, a woman is not allowed to drive a car.
We considered moving to Saudi Arabia and I was not well satisfied with the idea of not being allowed to drive a car.
Females are not allowed to go outside without a male relative to accompany them. Women are kept behind the four walls.
Ultimately, I don't give a damn whether a woman CHOOSES to wear the chador. I do care about education of females as well as males. I think that repressing half the population of a country makes that country backward.
I realize that in the west women have gone hog wild and things are often not fair for men or women are favored. Eventually, that will be worked out. Women cannot become masculine if they are repressed. The only way to conqer the feminine is to let the feminine out of the bag. Deal with it and encourage masculinity. As long as you bound the feminine, you will always have the feminine.
Maybe, that is the idea. Abuse or suppression of woman is love of the feminine.
In India, some time ago, a widow was required to climb into the funeral pyre of her dead husband. I would kind of resent that.
I am female and I greatly enjoy living alone. I greatly enjoy owning my own home. I greatly enjoy driving. I greatly enjoy being able to walk outside my house. I enjoy the freedom to think and to act. There is no authority over me more than there is authority over any man. I have the same rights as a man -- more rights in some cases -- though that crap would never work for me -- I don't have this womanly appeal.
I think all human beings should be encouraged in individuality and autonomy.
Toward that end, a bikini can be as offensive as a chador. I certainly do not object to any woman wearing a bikini -- young women love the chance to show off their figures. But when you really look at what they are doing, they are enslaving themselves.
I realize that there are a lot of variables to that conjecture. I also realize that females are not going to stop trying to look beautiful. A woman's ego is entirely wrapped up in the idea of beauty.
I let my daughter out of my car this evening and I watched her walk down the street. Compared to myself, she is tall -- about five seven. Her long black hair hung to her waist. She was wearing jeans and a snug t-shirt. Covered from head to toe.
But no mistaking the form. She walks like a man. She is muscular from breaking down walls and floors. Very healthy.
There is no way I can imagine her not going outside without her brother or uncle. Her brother is six feet tall and muscularly wirey.
But Rock can still beat him up.
I think a woman should have absolute freedom to develop as a human being as a man. Such development cannot be achieved if she is kept as property and treated as a child; if she cannot venture beyond the wall; if she is not allowed to have a driver's license; if she must always be escorted by a man.
To me, the burqa and chador are symbolic of repression of the masculine.
Faizi
I concede your point and I have always said that a well turned out shelwar kameez can be very sexy. Also, there are times when I would dearly love to go out in a burqa -- times when I don't feel like brushing my hair or times when I have been mowing and have grass and sweat all over me; other times when I plain do not feel like saying hello to anyone.Funny, I find it kind of sexy. Leaves a hell of a lot to the imagination and imagination is arguably the best part of sexuality.
My objection to the chador and the burqa is that, often, a woman does not have a choice. Granted, many women given a choice would still go out in a burqa. Can be very ingrained -- they would feel that they were naked unless they were wearing this tent thing with eye holes.
What bothers me most about the wearing of chador and burqa is that it generally means a woman has no freedom. They often are not allowed to drive cars. In Pakistan back in the eighties, many women were driving cars. I am not sure about that now. In Saudi Arabia, a woman is not allowed to drive a car.
We considered moving to Saudi Arabia and I was not well satisfied with the idea of not being allowed to drive a car.
Females are not allowed to go outside without a male relative to accompany them. Women are kept behind the four walls.
Ultimately, I don't give a damn whether a woman CHOOSES to wear the chador. I do care about education of females as well as males. I think that repressing half the population of a country makes that country backward.
I realize that in the west women have gone hog wild and things are often not fair for men or women are favored. Eventually, that will be worked out. Women cannot become masculine if they are repressed. The only way to conqer the feminine is to let the feminine out of the bag. Deal with it and encourage masculinity. As long as you bound the feminine, you will always have the feminine.
Maybe, that is the idea. Abuse or suppression of woman is love of the feminine.
In India, some time ago, a widow was required to climb into the funeral pyre of her dead husband. I would kind of resent that.
I am female and I greatly enjoy living alone. I greatly enjoy owning my own home. I greatly enjoy driving. I greatly enjoy being able to walk outside my house. I enjoy the freedom to think and to act. There is no authority over me more than there is authority over any man. I have the same rights as a man -- more rights in some cases -- though that crap would never work for me -- I don't have this womanly appeal.
I think all human beings should be encouraged in individuality and autonomy.
Toward that end, a bikini can be as offensive as a chador. I certainly do not object to any woman wearing a bikini -- young women love the chance to show off their figures. But when you really look at what they are doing, they are enslaving themselves.
I realize that there are a lot of variables to that conjecture. I also realize that females are not going to stop trying to look beautiful. A woman's ego is entirely wrapped up in the idea of beauty.
I let my daughter out of my car this evening and I watched her walk down the street. Compared to myself, she is tall -- about five seven. Her long black hair hung to her waist. She was wearing jeans and a snug t-shirt. Covered from head to toe.
But no mistaking the form. She walks like a man. She is muscular from breaking down walls and floors. Very healthy.
There is no way I can imagine her not going outside without her brother or uncle. Her brother is six feet tall and muscularly wirey.
But Rock can still beat him up.
I think a woman should have absolute freedom to develop as a human being as a man. Such development cannot be achieved if she is kept as property and treated as a child; if she cannot venture beyond the wall; if she is not allowed to have a driver's license; if she must always be escorted by a man.
To me, the burqa and chador are symbolic of repression of the masculine.
Faizi
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MKFaizi
Rory wrote:
I said, "Well, you are Jew-like. Why is that a problem? Do you fight if they call you Paki?"
"Yes."
"So, you just like to fight, then. If they call you Paki, you fight. They call you Jew, you fight. Screw fighting. You have a beautiful complexion and you are less likely to get melanoma. Get over the racial thing. Tell the crackers they need to wear white sheets to avoid sunburn. Damn."
He is interested in a girl named Sue Wu. Cute as a button. She came around to see him in the spring but he had another girlfriend then. Then, she went to Taiwan for the summer. They call her Swoo.
They call him Fozzy. He wants them to become Swozzy. Should be an interesting cultural pairing, high school style -- three months worth. He gets tired of girls because they want to talk on the phone too much.
I do think that cultural integration breeds cultural understanding eventually.
Before independence and after, there are many recorded instances of Muslims co-existing with Hindus. During the struggle to establish Pakistan, there were conflicts. There was violence.
My husband's parents walked from Indian Punjab to Pakistani Punjab after the separation. Many people left homes in India to take up home in abandoned houses due to the great migration. And the opposite is true -- leaving intact homes in Pakistan to walk to India. Greatest migration in the twentieth century.
My husband was born in Pakistani Punjab in 1951. Most of his siblings were born in India before the separation.
Personally, I am rather sorry for that. I would like to see a united India -- including Kashmir and Bangladesh as well as Pakistan. Pakistan is rooted in India. Culturally, Pakistan is connected to India more so than to Iran or Afghanistan. Afghanistan is more connected to India than to Iran.
It's a Bollywood thing.
Faizi
Ironically, due to Buster's Paki skin, the insult most often hurled at him is, "JEW!" He has had some fights over some kids calling him a Jew.I know this ignores the fact that the worst of them aren't talking to me beI because they're still in Israel/Palestine unwilling to leave, but it surprised all of us who were involved.
I said, "Well, you are Jew-like. Why is that a problem? Do you fight if they call you Paki?"
"Yes."
"So, you just like to fight, then. If they call you Paki, you fight. They call you Jew, you fight. Screw fighting. You have a beautiful complexion and you are less likely to get melanoma. Get over the racial thing. Tell the crackers they need to wear white sheets to avoid sunburn. Damn."
He is interested in a girl named Sue Wu. Cute as a button. She came around to see him in the spring but he had another girlfriend then. Then, she went to Taiwan for the summer. They call her Swoo.
They call him Fozzy. He wants them to become Swozzy. Should be an interesting cultural pairing, high school style -- three months worth. He gets tired of girls because they want to talk on the phone too much.
I do think that cultural integration breeds cultural understanding eventually.
I am acutely aware of the British separation of Pakistan from India. In the beginning, Pakistan was not just the northern part of India. It was also Bangladesh. There was East Pakistan and West Pakistan until the war for independent Bangladesh in the seventies.It should be pointed out, too, that the Muslims and Hindus did not always live peacefully in India. They had to create Pakistan out of the northern chunk of India and allow those Muslims in southern india who wanted to move to do so before they had relative peace.
Before independence and after, there are many recorded instances of Muslims co-existing with Hindus. During the struggle to establish Pakistan, there were conflicts. There was violence.
My husband's parents walked from Indian Punjab to Pakistani Punjab after the separation. Many people left homes in India to take up home in abandoned houses due to the great migration. And the opposite is true -- leaving intact homes in Pakistan to walk to India. Greatest migration in the twentieth century.
My husband was born in Pakistani Punjab in 1951. Most of his siblings were born in India before the separation.
Personally, I am rather sorry for that. I would like to see a united India -- including Kashmir and Bangladesh as well as Pakistan. Pakistan is rooted in India. Culturally, Pakistan is connected to India more so than to Iran or Afghanistan. Afghanistan is more connected to India than to Iran.
It's a Bollywood thing.
Faizi

