Tales from the Uni Front

Post questions or suggestions here.
Post Reply
Pye
Posts: 1065
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:45 pm

Tales from the Uni Front

Post by Pye » Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:49 am

.

For your edification/amusement/disgust, here is a typical little scenario with which I am currently dealing.

The big uni has drafted a *star* basketball player from another big uni, and I have been contacted today to ask if I am willing to allow said athlete to miss the first week of his Intro to Philo course this summer.

Summer classes, mind you, are 6-week condensations of a 15-week course. Class meets everyday (M-F) at extended hours, and so essentially, I am being asked to allow this fellow to miss 15% of the course right out of the starting gate. Further, I will have to repeat four class lectures to him privately if I want to help him catch up, which is essentially like teaching the whole first week of classes - twice. Once for them; once for him.

This kind of thing happens all the time. Long, long messages from people in the athletic department making long, long pleas of cloying respect to the prof. to make exceptional arrangements for these exceptional student athletes.

Just curious for your response on this worldly matter from any comers re: what you would do/say in a similar position. Smart-asses welcomed :)

.

unwise
Posts: 358
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 3:00 pm

Post by unwise » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:06 am

First of all, why would an athlete want to take a philosophy course. There must be easier courses from the humanities menu.

OK, you have to realize that sports is the bread and butter of the university. It's the program that pays - well, that and government defense contracts to make poison gas and stuff....

But anyway, suck it up. These athletes bring money and name recognition to your school. Helps keep tuition down and your salary up.

Pye
Posts: 1065
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:45 pm

Post by Pye » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:23 am

.

Intro to Philosophy is a required course at this uni for every single flea-bitten student who attends.

I don't make a salary, unwise. I'm an independent adjunct prof. with no ties to any Uni, other than accepting classes from them in which I have an interest to teach. Between three unis, I eke out a living. And I sleep real good at night, too.

Yours is the attitude of the establishment; the administration; the average; the regular guy. You'd do well up there ;)

.

User avatar
sschaula
Posts: 1317
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:16 am
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by sschaula » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:59 am

I didn't know we had any philosophy teachers here on the forum. Good. I hope more come to the forums.

Pye, in my opinion, allow the student to take the week off so long as he meets all of the requirements the other students have to meet.

Or if you feel the need to teach him philosophy, instead of just allowing him to take interest on his own, make him write a paper on a chosen subject...like the fallacies and logical arguments.

You could tell him to put it in his own words, to make sure that he hasn't copied it from somewhere else. That's if you want to be cruel, though. If you want to be nice, just pass the kid.
- Scott

Tharan
Posts: 337
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:14 am
Location: Seattle

Post by Tharan » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:25 am

Yeah, if you really didn't care about him, then just pass him in order to grant yourself the least amount of resistance. If it is principle you stand on, then know that basketball practice combined with study is generally more difficult than the amount of work your "normal" students put into the class. Perhaps that might alleviate the feelings of resentment a bit. But if it really is a function of you simply not wanting to give him the special one-on-one, then raise a stink about "The Matter of Principle" (even though it really not) and hope that your cries falls on a sympathetic ear with some local power.

R. Steven Coyle
Posts: 332
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:33 pm
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Post by R. Steven Coyle » Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:23 pm

http://www.sanatansociety.com/hinduism_ ... _karma.htm

Hey,

Leyla! (and others) - check this out.

MKFaizi

Post by MKFaizi » Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:04 pm

Personally, I believe in the value of condensed college and high school courses.

My son failed Biology. He excelled in the Virginia Standards of Learning in biology but he failed the class -- partly because his teacher was a jackass and partly because he chose to let the fact that she is a jackass cause him to get a failing class in the course.

He is going to summer school and he is doing the class on line in what was supposed to be twelve days. On day four, he is nearly done and he has an A so far. However, he will be done in nine days officially. In actuality, he will sleep through about four days because he will have finished the required work before then.

My son is not a jock. He has no monetary value to his school.

My question is -- if the same information can be imparted and tested in nine days, why is it necessary for a student to endure the bullshit of two semesters for a failing grade due mostly to difference in outlook and temperament between teacher and student?

When I was a kid, I took Senior English in summer school. I hated school generally but this was the best class I ever took -- because it was accelerated and condensed. I learned the subject better because it was fast paced and challenging.

In a regular class, I probably would have spent the excess time sleeping or reading something unrelated.

I definitely do not believe in the pretense of letting jocks slip by on academics. If a jock is pretending to go to college, he should meet some requirements. I think the idea of having the kid write a paper is decent. Put it to him in the same way as an athletic challenge. If he can play out a philosophical idea using a football field or a basketball court, let him do it.

Tiger Wood is greatly admired by David Quinn.

I do think physical/athletic ability can be transferred to art and philosophy, if pushed.

Let him have the week off. Make him justify the privilege.

Faizi[/url]

User avatar
Tomas
Posts: 4328
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:15 am
Location: North Dakota

Post by Tomas » Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:29 pm

Moral of this story? .... Don't mess with the OLD FARTS - age, skill, wisdom, and a little treachery will always overcome youth and arrogance!


Tomas (the tank)
VietNam veteran - 1971

User avatar
Jamesh
Posts: 1526
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:44 pm

Post by Jamesh » Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:17 pm

If the excuses aren't really meaningful, I think I'd indicate extreme reluctance about setting a precedent. Then quickly back off when some other manager outside of the athletic dept asks you to reconsider. Don't be an easy mark. I presume you'd get paid for the one-on-one catch up tuition.

I don't envy your position. This is the sort of dilemma I had a fair bit of emotional trouble with. There is a clear need to act on principle (if the excuses are simply excuses), but to do so would just mean you'd get buried. The pure incapacity to do anything about matters of principle in the modern world really gets my anger pumped up.

Thankfully Australia doesn't have this inane problem of mixing elite sportsmen and academia at Uni, and tying some sort of funding on the ability of the sports dudes.

Intro to Philosophy is a required course at this uni for every single flea-bitten student who attends.

I am surprised about this. Why do you folks have so many crazy evangelists, yet enforce at least some basic philosophy.

User avatar
DHodges
Posts: 1531
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2002 8:20 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Contact:

Re: Tales from the Uni Front

Post by DHodges » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:42 pm

Pye wrote:Just curious for your response on this worldly matter from any comers re: what you would do/say in a similar position. Smart-asses welcomed :)
I've never worked at a university; I'm in the business world. It seems to be that this has nothing to do with philosophy; nobody gives a shit whether that kid knows Plato from his butthole.

Since the reasons for this special treatment are "business" reasons, not educational - they potentially affect the University's bottom line - you are in a good position, and perfectly justified, in charging heavily. It's not something you are required to do, and you should certainly not do it for free.

You should only give this special treatment - especially the private tutoring - if you are paid to make it worth your while. And it's pretty clear he can't pass without the private tutoring, right? It needs to at least be available if he needs it.

Especially if you think there is some principle involved - you should never compromise your principles without adequate compensation. Principles should never come cheap. It sets a very bad precedent, especially for a philosophy department.

As to how much it's worth, how much has the university already invested in this player? I would guess $50,000 or more. (How did they get him from the other school?) If you are, in effect, helping him to perform on the field, you are entitled to a piece of the action.

The worst that could happen would be that they would say you are "not a team player," which is worth its weight in irony.
If the athletic department (or whoever controls the money) is not willing to step up to the plate, as it were, I don't see any reason to give him any special treatment. He can find his own private tutor, and do the work.

... not really sure if I'm being a smart-ass or not...

unwise
Posts: 358
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 3:00 pm

Post by unwise » Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:23 am

I really like Hodges approach. Since everyone has a good reason for doing things (principle), pragmatism trumps principle. Compromise is the key.

Don't be like Kerjewski and become a new Christ.

If this dude is going to cost you extra time - just make a sad case about it and get reimbursed as much as possible. There's your win-win.

Pye
Posts: 1065
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:45 pm

Post by Pye » Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:35 am

.

sschaula writes:
You could tell him to put it in his own words, to make sure that he hasn't copied it from somewhere else. That's if you want to be cruel, though. If you want to be nice, just pass the kid.
Ta for the comments. The homework suggestion is sort of exactly the kind of thing - the kind of busywork and/or information shuffling that I don't really consider education at all. Unfortunately, this is par for most of the course - the shunting of information; the memorization and repetition of same. I have actually had a significant number of anxious students coming to my office hours to confess that none of their other classes ask them to think and that they don't know how to do it, or what-exactly-it-is I am looking for. Most modern American education makes thoughtless little copy-machines out of people.

Tharan:
know that basketball practice combined with study is generally more difficult than the amount of work your "normal" students put into the class.
Yes, I know. The athletic department at the big uni actually dogs these students pretty relentless to perform academically as well.

Both of you mentioned passing him. Havers, we haven't even gotten to that yet! That depends on him and his work. I'm just being asked if I am willing to accept him into the class under these conditions.

MKFaizi:
Let him have the week off. Make him justify the privilege.
Best advice. I happen to like the condensed summer courses, too. They are intense (at least where I'm at) and the steady immersion does very much what you say it does in the learning department.

Jamesh:
Don't be an easy mark.
Thanks, Jamesh. I won't be. But then I'm not hard-ass just for its own sake, either. I want to do the most reasonable thing wherein this student still achieves some high-quality mental movement. This aim is frustrated in situations like these.

Jamesh:
Intro to Philosophy is a required course at this uni for every single flea-bitten student who attends.

I am surprised about this. Why do you folks have so many crazy evangelists, yet enforce at least some basic philosophy.
I'd say this the other way around, that at least this uni enforces some basic philosophy!

DHodges:
nobody gives a shit whether that kid knows Plato from his butthole.
I know how you mean this, but seriously, I give a shit. I really do. I give less a shit that he knows Plato per se, and more of a shit that any one of the philosophic ideas we cover sticks a spoon in hitherto unused areas of his brain and starts stirring it. I do know how fruitless all this is against the generic tide, yet at the same time, this is testament to its real importance.

DHodges:
You should only give this special treatment - especially the private tutoring - if you are paid to make it worth your while. And it's pretty clear he can't pass without the private tutoring, right? It needs to at least be available if he needs it.
Yes, it will be difficult for him to understand the rest of the class without all the foundational stuff that happens in the first week. No, I do not get paid any extra for situations like these, hence all the kid-glove appeals from the athletic department.

DHodges:
As to how much it's worth, how much has the university already invested in this player? I would guess $50,000 or more. (How did they get him from the other school?) If you are, in effect, helping him to perform on the field, you are entitled to a piece of the action.
Wow you are more savvy than myself about these things. I have no idea about the money and deal machinations. I have, however, had a fair few student athletes tell me what our (too-brief) study of the Tao has lent to their athletic performance and concentration, so I'd have to consider that a most satisfactory 'piece of the action.'

DHodges:
... not really sure if I'm being a smart-ass or not...
I think that hat takes care of this :)

I appreciate all your comments and thoughts, everyone. It is really interesting to see how these things look to people who aren't inclined to be glazed-over by the social juggernaut of entropic norms. It is as you say, Jamesh - I have principles and values that on a number of occasions do not lend me an 'easy' life. But I sleep with ease and wake to them with good nature and gusto.

.
[edit:typos]
Last edited by Pye on Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

unwise
Posts: 358
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 3:00 pm

Post by unwise » Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:46 am

Havers, we haven't even gotten to that yet! That depends on him and his work.
If you are at a big university like mine - Ohio State - AND this kid is a true asset to the athletic program as in TV coverage, you WILL INDEED be passing him, my friend. Believe me.

If you really want to stir his brain up a bit, give him a hit of acid if he's not able to attend to your full class. In many cases, that will do more than college can manage.

Pye
Posts: 1065
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:45 pm

Post by Pye » Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:05 pm

.

If you're interested, yon Puerto Rican basketball player's academic-athletic advisors took up my first suggestion and moved him into a Philo Intro section for the summer that has built-in student tutors who can help him catch up.

If he hadn't have been able to adjust his class scheduling (I told them), I would have given him the private lectures.


.

Post Reply