MKFaizi wrote:Well, naturally, I turned her off. I have that charm and I am sincerely sorry for that -- I have respect for Shardrol -- but I have no choice but to write truth as I know it. Yes, it sucks. Yes, of course, I am a bitch. I am stupid. I don't know anything.
Your 'truth' is your subjectivity - nothing more. I am presenting my subjectivity too, but at least I don't delude myself that it's truth. We can exchange subjectivities forever to no purpose. That's why the discussion seemed futile.
I have trouble with those who could lead me to spiritual enlightenment. I have a problem being led. I don't like a ring through my nose.
I have a problem with the way you persist in your beliefs about things of which you have no experience, & are impervious to even grasping the concept of another view. That's why the discussion seemed futile.
Shardrol cautioned me to examine my own glass house. I do not even have glass as a barrier. I am open -- wide open -- out there with the wind. Like a pigeon.
Yes we know all about your life but your mind is as closed as any I've ever encountered. That's why the discussion seemed futile.
A pigeon is a pretty easy target. I have no problem taking hits. I have taken tons of 'em here. Stupid enough to come back for more.
I've been here a long time & I'd say you've given
way more than you've received.
We were having a pretty serious discussion about the reality of depression.
No we weren't. You were pontificating about depression & trampling any different view, as is your wont. Because when you believe something, it is 'true' in your world. That's why the discussion seemed futile.
I know a fair amount about depression. It is not something someone tried to put on me twenty years ago. It is something that I had to learn that I could not just toss off -- kind of like a cancerous intestinal polyp cannot just be tossed off.
You make a lot of (wrong) assumptions about me from the fact that I said 20 years ago I was diagnosed with depression. But it would take so much time to correct you & you would never believe I could know as much as you anyway, because your knowledge is 'true'. That's why the discussion seemed futile.
I am sorry that Shardrol skipped out on that discussion. I think it became too serious for her and too close to home.
Think what you like. The last time I was on this forum I decided I was not going to get into anymore discussions with you because of your bullying style, your self-righteous conviction that all your opinions are 'truth' & the way you seem unable to grasp, even conceptually, another way of seeing things. That's why the discussion seemed futile. I should have left it at that.
I see nothing wrong with clinging to Buddhism if it will save your life.
Buddhism actually had nothing to do with dealing with my depression of 20 years ago. It was before I became a Buddhist. But you always think you know. That's why the discussion seemed futile.
But I do think that, eventually, you will have to face the man in the mirror.
And because you know everything, you know that that day has not yet come for me. That's why the discussion seemed futile.
I do think that Zoloft and other medications mask deepening depression. I also think the following of gurus and spritual teachers mask it. I think that following teachers and gurus might mask deep seated depression even more than medication.
It's certainly possible. But I didn't become a Buddhist till after I had been through the process of recovering from depression, so it's irrelevant.
But just so you have something you can sling arrows at in your next post, I'll mention that what helped my depression was 5 1/2 years of intensive (3 times a week) psychotherapy. So take aim at a different target next time. Tell me how if just
blathering about it for 5 years ("My god, 5 years, you must be a longwinded bitch!
I could never talk for 5 years", etc etc) could change it it couldn't have been
real depression, not the big hairy kind that you & David Hodges have [he must have the real thing too because he takes medication]. I was probably just in a
snit or a
bad mood or something cause no one asked me to the prom, right?
At least, I am not religious. I have no savior, no teacher. I have no faith in psychology. Little faith in medicine.
That's why I wrote my post about how 20 years ago I was too proud to take medication. I thought you could relate to that kind of thinking. I didn't realize that the way I wrote it didn't make it clear that I no longer think that way but when David Hodges asked me about it, I clarified it. I did appreciate his approach more than your chest-beating ("Oh yeah? Well
I think blah blah blah blah,
I know blah blah blah blah,
I would never blah blah blah blah, at least
I blah blah blah blah" etc etc]. He seemed interested in understanding why I thought the way I did rather than making sure I knew I was wrong.
I have no problem admitting that if I did not take Zoloft, I might be dead. Not something I like but it is the truth.
I would say the same thing, I reckon, if I was Christian or Buddhist; if I had teachers that sustained me.
Get off this soapbox already - it's the wrong one. You should be condescending to me because of
psychotherapy, not Buddhism. It wasn't my
teacher who dragged my pathetic dependent self into the light, it was my
therapist.
If you understood what I said in my post to David Hodges you'd know that I don't think the way I did 20 years ago anymore. I don't look down on people who take medications like Zoloft. I agree that a chemical approach to depression is the best thing for a lot of people & I don't sneer at them because of it. I was just explaining in my original post how I used to feel differently & attempting to point out the irony of you continually taking pot-shots at people who call someone their teacher while doing something (taking Zoloft) that other dogmatic egomaniacs might view the same way, i.e. as a crutch. But you couldn't understand that because it involved seeing a point of view other than your own - even just for a second. That's why the discussion seemed futile.
The fallacy of religion; of teachers; of gurus; is that one cannot admit one's dependence. One deludes himself that he is better than someone who might have to take medication for depression.
Here's that reading comprehension thing again. Yup, 20 years ago I thought I was better than people who took medication. I would also have thought I was better than people who had a guru, but that wasn't part of my world at the time. Here's the point that has eluded you: I was demonstrating how someone could view
your choices in the same contemptuous way you view mine, & using my past self as an example of that. The glass house was the fact of your making use of one 'crutch' while sneering at another.
For some reason you could not understand my point, & probably still don't. That's why the discussion seemed futile.
Kind of like Tom Cruise and Scientology.
Yes, exactly. We have liftoff. Allah hoo!
The only problem is I don't think that way anymore.
End of futile discussion.
.
