Australia

[DHodges]

I'm planning a trip to Australia, tentatively for around October of this year. I intend to visit the Sydney / Melbourne area.

Since there seem to be a bunch of people here from Australia, I thought I'd ask for advice. Is October a good time of year to visit? Are there places I should definitely visit, or avoid? Is there any reason to go to Perth, or that whole side of the continent? Is two weeks long enough to get a good feel for it?

I am seriously considering moving to Australia (most likely near Sydney), and visiting is a first step to make sure I won't hate it there, before setting wheels in motion.

[Kevin Solway]

Is October a good time of year to visit?

As good as any.

Are there places I should definitely visit, or avoid?

It depends what you want to see. Nowhere in Australia is overly dangerous (except perhaps for a few of the Western suburbs of Sydney). Thankfully, drive-by shootings are not common. Cities are pretty much the same in all developed countries.

If you plan on living in an urban area, then you may not be interested in seeing the outback.

The South is temperate in climate, the North is more tropical.

Is there any reason to go to Perth, or that whole side of the continent?

Not particularly.

Is two weeks long enough to get a good feel for it?

I'd say so, since Australia isn't all that different to the US. It's culturally halfway between the UK and the US.

[Pye]

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DHodges, I have been to Australia twice, once for three weeks; once for a month, I have a friend there, this was back when the american dollar gave me things there that I could not afford in America, like a private sea hut, a rental car, and money for cooking my own food, it was about 4 and 5 years ago.

I'm no good to ask for city advice. I stayed in NSW on the eastern seaboard both times, available by foot and car a long line of national forests, sea coast. Other than landing in Canberra and supply buying there, I did not visit one city, or city-like attraction. I only saw Sydney twice, from the air. I was for the landscape and my friend there, as far away from people-things, the better. The miles and miles of near-empty week-day beaches, the rocky coves, the string of beaches only a deep woods drive would get you back to, each with different composites and structures and moods, each day every day that's what we did, with food back packs and dusk returns to hut and evening fire.

I loved entirely the sense of space and that all the aesthetics of nature are not hogged by private owners, like so much american seacoast is. I loved the rich sense of space and privacy, the day long excursions of the sea, even the long long fields of view, driving the stretches of repetitive landscape so that the subtleties can't help but emerge, driving the coastal mountains, the ridges. I was also way into spotting birds and wildlife in all the bushwalking, sea-setting. For a brief while I mind-tinkered with a life there, casually looked into a couple of uni's. But what I really would have wanted there was the same kind of time I was already spending. If I could do that, I could do it anywhere.

October would be temperate and springy I would guess, depending. I was there in both transitional seasons, spring and fall.

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[Leyla Shen]

Well, Melbourne’s summer doesn’t really get going until January. So, you’d be arriving in spring -- which is rather nice. The sun in Melbourne is a lot harsher than in the other states, I reckon. My friend from England--who regularly holidays in Europe and loves to bake in the sun--was completely unprepared for ours. But, you get used to it after a while.

Two weeks is definitely not enough.

I think you should head up to Cairns, Daintree and Cape Tribulation (Queensland)--up where all the tropical things are: crocs, big, hairy spiders and rainforests.

Queensland

When in Melbourne, you must travel The Great Ocean Road and check out all the towns and forests and things along it.

The Great Ocean Road, Victoria

Check the items under “highlights” -- especially the Otways.

And there’s much beyond the 12 Apostles, too:

Beyond the 12 Apostles (Great Ocean Road)

Bloody fantastic.

I also think you should take a train across the red country.

The Red Country by Train

Sydney’s too ostentatious for me -- though I’m sure they’ve got some great places outside of the city. Weather’s generally more stable than Melbourne’s. Kinda erratic, here--four seasons in one day, at times (slightly exagerrated).

You’ll love it.

[Kevin Solway]

All of the links you posted must have become defunct in the few minutes since you posted them.

[Leyla Shen]

Hm...

I think it might be because I used different browsers for the site searches and posting on the forum. Testing...

Queensland

OK. That's working on my end, now.

The Great Ocean Road

The Red Country by Train (This site's much better in Windows Explorer, which provides a slide show of some excellent shots at the top of the page.)

PS: Let me know if the links don't work (though I think they should)--I'll post the addresses just in case.

http://www.queenslandholidays.com.au
http://www.queenslandholidays.com.au/tr ... /towns.cfm
http://www.gsr.com.au
http://www.greatoceanrd.org.au

[Jason]

This website might be good for info on things in the city of Melbourne, it's been advertised ad nauseam on tv down here: http://www.thatsmelbourne.com.au

[R. Steven Coyle]

Recently, I've also been thinking of spending some time in Australia, a couple years for exposure. Does anyone know, off the top of their head, what requirements need to be fulfilled to obtain a work visa?

[DHodges]

Thanks to everyone for your comments and thoughts.

If you plan on living in an urban area, then you may not be interested in seeing the outback.

Actually, I am very interested in seeing it. I would need to live in or near a large city (probably Sydney) in order to work. But certainly exploring the rest of the country, when I am able, is a major draw.

[Leyla Shen]

Oh, and, of course, Arnhem Land, which you'll need a permit for. My nephew belongs to one of the Aboriginal clans up there. You'll need a permit for it but you will be able to see and live like the Aborigines--right off the land and nothing else.

http://www.travelnt.com/regions/kakadu/ ... m?247SEO=N

This site will give you real estate info:

http://www.reinsw.com.au/rei/reihome.nsf

[Jamesh]

You could read Bill Bryson. An easy entertaining read.

http://www.randomhouse.com/features/bil ... 0767903868

I live in Sydney, but haven't travelled enough to know what other countries are like (only 3 months in Europe and 1 month in NZ, 3 days in NY). I haven't even travelled much in Australia.

I imagine Sydney would provide slightly more IT opportunites than Melbourne. Where to reside in Sydney would be dependant on your income and how much you hate train travel. If you can afford a suburb close a beach then stay there. The northern suburbs are more traditionally Australian and the eastern suburbs cosmopolitan. The western suburbs are a version of suburban LA, I'd imagine.

Due to the distances involved, you won't see that much of country Oz in 2 weeks - it really limits your opportunities. Maybe try hitch hiking and busing from Sydney to Brisbane/Gold Coast for a week then flying to Cairns to see the Barrier Reef for the second week.

Apparently Melbournites are more a european cafe set and Sydney I guess is a yankie cafe set, thus Melbournians are supposed to be nicer - well if you like sport that is!

If you have any specific questions about Sydney then just ask here or email me at jimhaz@bigpond.com

[DHodges]

You could read Bill Bryson. An easy entertaining read.

Yes, I've already read that.

I live in Sydney, but haven't travelled enough to know what other countries are like (only 3 months in Europe and 1 month in NZ, 3 days in NY). I haven't even travelled much in Australia.

Maybe you could tell me what music is like in Sydney. Are there a lot of clubs with live music? Is there great variety? If I wanted to go out and see jazz, hard rock, industrial, whatever, would I likely find it?

If I travel around Sydney, what is the surrounding country like? Desert? Farmland? Mountains?

Apparently Melbournites are more a european cafe set and Sydney I guess is a yankie cafe set, thus Melbournians are supposed to be nicer - well if you like sport that is!

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that - but no, I'm not into sports. I do intend to watch a cricket match at some point, just because I have trouble believing it's as incredibly boring as it sounds. I thought baseball had that covered pretty well.

[avidaloca]

I grew up with cricket in Australia so don't find it boring, but the most boring sporting event I ever saw was a baseball match at Wrigley field in Chicago.

I'd go from the Whitsundays to Cairns, but I'm biased being a scuba diver. I'd also go to Fraser Island, and Kangaroo Island. Adelaide is boring (I'm from there) but Brisbane and south-east Queensland has a lot going for it with the beaches and the hinterland both north and south, a lot of which I've enjoyed over the last 15 years here.

I've been to the Outback - Alice Springs and a week just south of Ayers Rock/Uluru. It is incredibly dry. I wouldn't recommend it but it is interesting.

Many of the places that had little commerciality 15 years ago like Byron Bay and Maleny are now overrun with it. So it's like you didn't leave home, unfortunately.

For some strange reason I tend to like Sydney people but not Melbournians. But then no-one in Adelaide likes anything to do with Melbourne - major rivalry. Also my grandfather lived in Sydney till he was 40 (born there in 1904) - must be in the genes.

[Jamesh]

Quote:
Maybe you could tell me what music is like in Sydney. Are there a lot of clubs with live music? Is there great variety? If I wanted to go out and see jazz, hard rock, industrial, whatever, would I likely find it?

To be honest I don’t know. Sydney used to have a great pub rock scene when I was younger and as a city of 4 or 5 million all the varieties of music will be available to see live – but there will be limited venues.

We have had two problems in this regard – firstly poker machines have decimated the need for pub venues to offer live music and secondly the Australian idol type corporate stuff has meant that more money goes to crap artists with ego’s rather than true musicians, so the pubs don't sponsor as many bands.

I doubt you will find the range and perhaps quality available in Philadelphia, particularly in terms of jazz – but it is really hard for me to say as I don’t actually go out anymore. The Basement is the place for jazz in Sydney.

If I travel around Sydney, what is the surrounding country like? Desert? Farmland? Mountains?

Within 300 miles of Sydney there is no desert and few mountains. In terms of mountains we do have the Blue Mountains which is OK for a 1 or 2 day trip – but they do not compare to NZ or Europe. There are some really nice natural bushland areas that have lots of trees close to Sydney, but otherwise it is coastal shores, which of course have their own quality. Being Oz, in NSW I simply would not bother with anything that is more than 100kms inland. Nothing much to see.

Apparently Melbournites are more a european cafe set and Sydney I guess is a yankie cafe set, thus Melbournians are supposed to be nicer - well if you like sport that is!

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that - but no, I'm not into sports.

It was a dig. I’m indicating that even though Oz is much like the US these days, that there is still a mild dislike of the majority of Americans. Other than the idol set, Americans are not really thought of as being cool and interesting, but someone we can have a dig at. We are less gung-ho and self-confident, so there is a mild cultural conflict – your countries effect on the world makes us feel inferior (subconsciuosly) so we react defensively. Like all other countries we resent your countries power and arrogance, without acknowledging that we also are arrogant. In Sydney we are a kind of financial hub so we get a lot of US execs that come in, and thus is an element of distrust and disgust associated with that – you know “yeh you fucking yanks know everything, but are hopeless at making the right decisions - you just want to rip profits out of us by using us”.

I’ve seen your pic with the gtar and I’d expect you will encounter some mild cultural racism of the dismissive sort. Probably the equivalent of the sort of treatment a French person would receive in the US. Yanks are a bit egocentric for the average Australian, thought as we become more business orientated we also are becoming the same.

The above does not take into account the fact that you are philosophically superior to most Americans that may arrive here, and thus are less likely to be loud and self-centred.

I do intend to watch a cricket match at some point, just because I have trouble believing it's as incredibly boring as it sounds. I thought baseball had that covered pretty well.

In October I doubt there will be any cricket matches of note. It is the very start of the domestic session and there are no international matches in October –so the crowd won’t get the atmosphere going.

Even though what I've said above is negative - I've personalised my response to a fair degree - you will still enjoy Australia. I guess I'm trying to say that you shouldn't really take the number of Oz thinkers on this forum as being representative of mainstream OZ, if that is why you are thinking of emigrating.

You still are likely to find that you could easily live here. For a start we don't really have a dominant evangelical mindset.
Nonetheless, I am getting the impression that our conservative government is fucking our country up and taking our real soul away by making us mere pawns in the profit game. In this regard we may be 10 years behind the US.

[DHodges]

To be honest I don’t know. Sydney used to have a great pub rock scene when I was younger and as a city of 4 or 5 million all the varieties of music will be available to see live – but there will be limited venues.

My interest is really in having other musicians to play with, more than going out. About the only time I go out is to play. I can look into that online.

It was a dig. I’m indicating that even though Oz is much like the US these days, that there is still a mild dislike of the majority of Americans.

I don't think that would bother me, since I also have a mild dislike of most Americans - enough to move out of the damn country.

In Sydney we are a kind of financial hub so we get a lot of US execs that come in, and thus is an element of distrust and disgust associated with that –

Well, yeah, I work in the financial industry, which is why I'm thinking Sydney. I'll need to look into what's required from the work end, probably need some certification. Obviously I wouldn't come in with the intent of telling people how to run their country.

Even though what I've said above is negative - I've personalised my response to a fair degree - you will still enjoy Australia.

Actually, it's more my disgust for America at this point. Australia seems like it has a lot going for it as an alternative - a reasonable climate, a government that is at least not too aggressive in foreign policy, and I speak English - err, enough to be understood, anyway, although I suppose I would have a heavy accent from an Australian perspective. If I think about it, I can do an accent suitable for Brooklyn or Dallas, but the difference would probably be lost on yer avg. Aussie.

A second choice is Mexico. I've been there a few times. I could live their cheap, but I probably would not be able to work - the only work for me in Mexico would be in Mexico City, which I'd rather avoid. So I could live in Mexico, but I'd have to be fully retired.

I guess I'm trying to say that you shouldn't really take the number of Oz thinkers on this forum as being representative of mainstream OZ, if that is why you are thinking of emigrating.

No, it's pretty clear that this forum is not the mainstream anywhere.

[avidaloca]

Jamesh wrote:

I’m indicating that even though Oz is much like the US these days

Having lived in both countries I'd say this is false. It's commonly bandied about by Aussies who've never lived there.

As Kevin said, we are somewhere between the US and UK culturally, but about a %10-15 swing away from the UK if that. The US is just so different to us, and you'd expect that. They had more than twice the number of years as us to develop as a former English colony, but far more European diversity in the US than here. Before 1950 there were few non-Anglos in Australia, but there have been every European culture in the USA for 500 years - 10 times as long.

More importantly, the seeds that found a nation are what it grows from. We are barely removed from the UK, and historically composed mainly of its stock. The US is many times removed from the UK and composed of a much wider stock. There's never been a Prime Minister Van Buren or General Eisenhower in Australia - both from non-UK cultures.

Over time the US, Australian and UK cultures will evolve uniquer identities, as do any seperate groups. The UK will very gradually merge with Continental Northern Europe. Australia will take a stand more distant from its current protectors, forging it's own identity. It's only because of our geographical isolation that we can maintain a cultural identity that has no place in South-East Asia. As that region grows, we will converge with them and vice versa.

As for the US, it could go more inward, losing even more connection with the "rest of the world". It just seems like the redneck element there is too great. It's the nature of the bulk of the population, and it's always been there. We're only seeing it clearly now because the current administration lacks anything that can be identified as class. Previous US government simply shrouded their self-centredness better.

[Jamesh]

My interest is really in having other musicians to play with, more than going out. About the only time I go out is to play. I can look into that online.

There are enough. When you get to Sydney look out for free mags such as Drum media, which list music happenings.

I hope you do come to Australia, as Avidaloca said we are in fact different, and I think you might like how we do differ from the US. I have probably exaggerated how Australians think of yanks - I was kind of thinking of what you might encounter in the suburbs.