possible egotisical motives for being here

[Ryan Rudolph]

What are some possible egostisical motives for being here?

1. To single out someone who is struggling, and viciously insult them as a means to make yourself feel superior?

2. To identity with someone who you think is wise, and form an image of them as a means to derive security and orientation.

3. To endlessly compare other thinkers as a means to give yourself the illusion that you are free/wise/smart?

4. Is your motive to join power hierarchies with other entities to give the illusion of worth, strength, and orientation?

[Diebert van Rhijn]

I'm not aware of any strong motive to be here, in terms of something to gain. My mind looks to stimulate itself in the right direction and sometimes this board helps, which makes it rather unique. I skip a lot of postings too. Most of them these days actually so maybe I missed a particular battle you suffered.

Everyday I spend in here, I grow weaker and weaker.

If you'd be your own worst enemy, that would be called progress.

all this bickering....throw feces at each other.... arguing

Are you on the same board as I am? Before I came here I was active for six years on a whole range of boards and really, the Genius Forum is no match for the backstabbing, ridiculing, deceit, posturing, teaming up, threats, innuendo and hypocriticism you will find 'out there'. This is quite a meek board overall, maybe even to the point of boring. Even trolls are allowed to stay if they don't take up too much bandwidth. The most ridiculous entries are met with mild interest or just silence. I never saw such thing happening elsewhere.

Now many of the topics can seem very uncomfortable to our unconscious self because they could shake the foundation of a person. I can only advice you to rethink your post and the question why you're experiencing this board so negatively. Or maybe you never engaged in the bulletin board life before? Can you deal with opposition and judgement of others?

[avidaloca]

the Genius Forum is no match for the backstabbing, ridiculing, deceit, posturing, teaming up, threats, innuendo and hypocriticism you will find 'out there'.

It's amazing how little of that goes on here. I'd be out of here pretty quick if it was the modus operandi like on so many other boards, so that's probably why I'm still here. I don't like people who make instant judgements about others, and while that does happen here, it's not done in as heavy a way as at other boards.

There is a lot of personal defence mechanisms here that kind of get boring to me. I'd like to see more opening up to other kinds of truth than just the one ad infinitum repeated mantra. Truth is supposed to be the multifarious audial, visual, mental, tactile thing that our hero Huang Po speaks of, so there should be more acceptance of truths in areas outside of just the pure philosophical sense.

The other thing is that if someone believes they understand truth, they shouldn't feel a need to attack others ad hominem or belittle their ideas - that speaks of insecurity and need for control. When that becomes an automatic response to a dissenting view, I switch off, because I know it is a closed mind I'm talking to.

[David Quinn]

If the records can be believed, Huang Po talked about nothing else other than the Void and how to awaken to it - which is similar to this board.

If you find this boring, Martin, then it can only be because you don't really have a connection to Truth, you don't really love it, you don't have any real awareness of it, you don't find any delight in it.

You're a leaf-dweller, at heart. The root and truck don't really interest you.

That's perfectly fine, of course. It's your choice. But I don't see why you should criticize an entire board on the basis that you are bored with philosophy. If you're bored, go somewhere else. Stick to your current affairs boards. I don't care. But don't tell a philosophical board that it should change its very nature and start engaging in unphilosophical matters.

Imagine people saying to Jesus, "Look Jesus, you keep on talking about the glories of Heaven and the need to devote our lives to God. This is all very well, but don't you get tired of saying this same stuff over and over? I certainly get tired of hearing it! Don't you want to talk about other things? What about political situation in Israel? Or the criminal trial of James the robber? Or the inequities of the Roman tax system? There are hundreds of things we could be talking about. But no, with you, it's always God this and God that. God, God, God, God, God!"

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[sschaula]

If it is already predetermined who will find truth, then all this bickering is a waste of time and energy.

Your waste of time and energy has been predetermined. If you choose to leave and save your energy for better things like............(crickets chirping)...........well, that'll have been predetermined too. Your choices are predetermined no matter how real they seem to you.

I should be using this time to be in mediation: less experience is more. Experience causes thoughts.

It's near impossible to make yourself stop thinking forever, and what's the point? What do you seek by not thinking?

Everyday I spend in here, I grow weaker and weaker.

If you hate this place, then stop coming here. If it interests you, then keep coming here and find out what's so interesting. If it scares you, then choose to either continue visiting or else never visit again.

I can relate to you though. I used to feel like this forum made me a bad person. I thought about it, and realized what a bad person is and that I'm actually a pretty good person. I think visiting this forum has made me a better person.

Thinking has made me better.

By watching us all throw feces at each other, this only causes an endless flow of redundant thoughts that take us space, where clarity could be.

There used to be a lot more of this in my opinion. The forum does seem like a crazy place. The name itself, Genius Forum, is unapologetic. I used to be nervous that someone would see the title and laugh at me, "What do you think you're some genius, Scott?" The topics here are like challenges, and you are like a young boy who is supposed to conquer every challenge. It's tough looking up at such a high peak, with such a vertical cliff's edge. People here act like careless monsters, tromping around yelling, saying seemingly blasphemous things. People here all seem retarded, saying one thing and turning around saying something else altogether...it's very confusing.

A while ago, the people here would definitely throw feces at eachother. I got a lot of feces thrown in my face and I definitely threw a lot. The place stank, yet it was FUN and interesting. I was learning about new things, and facing a serious challenge - to become worthy. To see what the great ones in the past had seen and to rise above the drab reality that everyone knew. I read stories about how great Jesus was, in my church. I read stories of the Buddha's enlightenment, how he could magically make things happen. These people were the source for everyone else. People flocked to them. I guess I wanted popularity. To be important, and to do something worthwhile with my life. So I stayed here, throwing feces in the faces of new members and getting talked down to because I wasn't worth the very feces I was throwing.

Like the others have said, this place is calm now. Very calm. I suppose this is the way the board is supposed to be. More topics in the main forum focus on philosophical discussions, which I don't even care about anymore. I don't think most of the topics there contain truth. I believe we get closer to the truth in the Brothel...although not there yet, but it's more interesting here.

Anyway, if it bothers you then it's good you can admit it. You're better than some zen student, trying to ignore the master's stick.

This messageboard is a drug, and the absolute truth is the cure.

Basically, yep. I don't think someone who comes to this board with interest can quit it til the process is done. You probably HAVE to find truth.

I need to negate experience, and be alone. Because like Beingof1 says, we have little time in this world to find truth, and you will only find it in the depths of solitude, not arguing in a messageboard.

If you need to find truth yet, then how do you know how or where you'll find it? Eh, anyway...you can find truth both in solitude as well as through argument on this messageboard.

And you'll definitely need your thinking for it. Sitting in a state of stupor will NOT get you to the truth.

[avidaloca]

A while ago I went to a Zen meditation night and it was very interesting. The whole point was to quiet your mind, sitting in the correct posture facing a wall for three hours with a couple of short breaks where you had to be composed anyway to go through a tea ceremony. It was the hardest thing I'd ever had to do - harder than being in the army, though not quite as hard as translating Weininger.

Anyway, after it was over I was just glad to have survived because it gets pretty boring when you don't seem to be doing anything. But then for the next two weeks, life was great. Totally unbelievable. Like I'd flushed out a cancer and could live again. The connectedness of anything was apparent and there was no boredom anywhere in any moment, things were in perspective and nothing taken too seriously.

So ironically, the very thing that appeared to be the most boring, caused the most interesting state of mind.

[sschaula]

Avidaloca, that seems misleading to me.

[avidaloca]

Why?

[MKFaizi]

I don't think most of the topics there (Genius Forum) contain truth. I believe we get closer to the truth in the Brothel...although not there yet, but it's more interesting here.

I thought the entirity of your post was interesting and honest.

I am not taking sides or trying to be popular in so saying. As for feces flinging, I have never engaged in such crap in my life.

I agree with you that The Brothel section of this forum has always gotten closer to truth than the more politically correct posts allowed on Genius. I agree with you that it is not there yet. Also, the Brothel being the Brothel, there is discussion of Indo/Pak music and other incidental topics.

I rather think the hodgepodge works. In a discussion of "Porn" on the Brothel, there is good and truthful discussion that goes well beyond porn.

I have long said that the purpose of truth could be better served if the two segments of this forum were merged. The threads are separate enough that, if you do not want to discuss Indo/Pak music or politics, you don't have to do so.

Any discussion can turn into a discussion of philosophy/truth, no matter its title or initial subject.

Faizi

[David Quinn]

If that is the case, what would it matter if the two forums were united or not?

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[Kelly Jones]

My vote is to make one single forum, dedicated to discussing the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.

There would be no choice at all then. One would have to engage honestly, instead of pretending one was interested in truth but constantly lying, or interpreting "truth" in all kinds of devious ways, which is the same thing.

It would also make a contrast to the other philosophy forums. They have many pages of different philosophy forums, for maths, religion, and so on, and as a result, are full of transient, devious minds.

An aside: I've been using some Linux forums lately, and noticed hardly any female members, and a lot of fairly logical (though not in philosophy) problem-solving. The point is, these are bright people, non-Windows users, and quite a few of your downloadable files are in the Windows .chm format, David. If a Linux or other OS system doesn't have a dual-boot environment or a Windows emulator, they can't open them.


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[Kelly Jones]

Further to files downloadable in Linux/Unix etc:

I was making some PDF versions of these .chm files, since Adobe Acrobat is a common Linux application.
It was a master document, to contain internal master documents (to download as one, or put on a CDROM). The pages were designed to be easily read on the computer, with no scrolling, and internal navigational bookmarks. I was also trying to keep the conceptual points or sub-chapters to one screen page, to help read the works as a sequence logically (if that was how they were written).

It's a big job though, and I got distracted.


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[Leyla Shen]

My vote is to make one single forum, dedicated to discussing the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.

There would be no choice at all then. One would have to engage honestly, instead of pretending one was interested in truth but constantly lying, or interpreting "truth" in all kinds of devious ways, which is the same thing.

It would also make a contrast to the other philosophy forums. They have many pages of different philosophy forums, for maths, religion, and so on, and as a result, are full of transient, devious minds.

An aside: I've been using some Linux forums lately, and noticed hardly any female members, and a lot of fairly logical (though not in philosophy) problem-solving. The point is, these are bright people, non-Windows users, and quite a few of your downloadable files are in the Windows .chm format, David. If a Linux or other OS system doesn't have a dual-boot environment or a Windows emulator, they can't open them.


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An interesting aside. As I recall it, there have been several "fairly logical (though not in philosophy) problem-solving...bright" kind of people come through here, Kelly. Where are they now, I wonder? Back out there solving problems, I suppose.

The point is, however: this is, apparently, intended to be a public forum. How can you have a public forum and not let the world in?

I'm quite satisfied with the current set-up, myself. But I do think this post of yours belongs up there in "Genius Proper."

[Leyla Shen]

David Quinn wrote:

Imagine people saying to Jesus, "Look Jesus, you keep on talking about the glories of Heaven and the need to devote our lives to God. This is all very well, but don't you get tired of saying this same stuff over and over? I certainly get tired of hearing it! Don't you want to talk about other things? What about political situation in Israel? Or the criminal trial of James the robber? Or the inequities of the Roman tax system? There are hundreds of things we could be talking about. But no, with you, it's always God this and God that. God, God, God, God, God!"

Imagine??? Isn't that just about the entire subject matter of the New Testament?

Jesus had a great deal to say about politics! Remember the Pharisees?

[sschaula]

I'm quite satisfied with the current set-up, myself.

Me too.

[sschaula]

Avidaloca,

Cosmic prostitute, or someone else, could come to think you mean that sitting in a stupor is the way to enlightenment.

[Leyla Shen]

David wrote:

If you find this boring, Martin, then it can only be because you don't really have a connection to Truth, you don't really love it, you don't have any real awareness of it, you don't find any delight in it.

If an individual does not have a connection to truth it is because that connection is entirely usurped by delusion, naturally.

When someone admits boredom, one option is to attempt to excite them into interest. Boredom carries with it the same characteristics of apathy, just less intense and much easier to deal with. So, if one can be seen to be generally bored, a little tickle of excitement will not bear much in the way of results in the name of truth -- if such results are what you are looking for. Course, you might just be wanting to get rid of them for the benefit of others who are a little more excited. But, you see, the bored individual is just a likely to stay where he is regardless -- what would be the point of changing anything?

The difficulty with truth, of course, is bridging an intellectual understanding (which could be considered no-understanding from a certain perspective) of it with one’s own mind. A bored individual, then, who manages to gain such an understanding of truth will necessarily be bored with it. To excite this understanding into realisation it would be necessary to locate and address that which the individual finds exciting himself. To uncover and direct that individual’s passion one must locate the subject/s or area/s where the passion of the individual has become concentrated in one form or another (even if it is just a big ball of subjugation). It can be hard to find, since boredom is a particular balance propped up between a general drive toward aggression and the general state of emotional contentment. But, I have seen such things squeeze out here and there every now and then.

Particular subjects or areas can then be examined in light of absolute truths such as A=A. To implicitly support A=not-A by not understanding this is just as much a denial of truth as is being bored, in my view. Of course, life is bound to get more exciting with this approach (at least for a little while) as we can see with Kelly’s current discussion on the Porn thread.

The way I see it, this is the difference (by degree) between ascetics and the fully-fledged sage of Truth.

Tough call, I reckon.

[Blair]

What is 'boredom' exactly? I can't say I ever experienced it, except in very fleeting moments of malaise and confusion.

Define it. QRS?

[MKFaizi]

If that is the case, what would it matter if the two forums were united or not?

Less separation.

Of course, you could do as Kelly suggests and have one forum that discriminates much more strictly in favor of "wisdom." However, I think that if you cut off from the "world" that much, the forum will turn onto itself and you may end of with no discussion at all. Such a segregated forum would prohibit any possibility of fresh perspectives.

Such a forum would definitely count me out because I will not be a member of a club that would have me as a member.

You could have a forum that would allow only yourself and Sue and Dan and Kevin and Kelly. Brahmin Genius. Can't imagine anything more boring -- philosophy becoming a thing unto itself. A Yellow Submarine philosophy discussion forum.

Ultimately, it does not matter to me that the two forums remain separate. It has been that way for years. Why change it?

Sometimes, the haughty pretentiousness of one over the other -- while dumping garbage down -- is something I find mildly annoying.

Could be my problem.

I had a confrontation today with a purely fascist motherfucker chauvinist
pig slave driver down on the farm with the country folk supremacist honky hippie ass communistic capitalist slime bucket shit glistening Rush Lumbaugh gushing marijuana for brains pissant. Had the fucking nerve to
tell me that I need to have a more positive attitude.

I had a large stick in my hands at the time.

I said, "I hate to break the news to ya, but this attitude is positive.
If it gets anymore positive, God help ya."

Sorry for venting but I am what I am. I work for a so called living
and that is insult enough. I will not have my intelligence insulted by a pompous honky ass son of a bitch with a goddamned master's degree stamped on his white hairy ass. I am not his nigger. I am nobody's nigger. You talk about my attitude, bitch, and you've crossed the line.

Don't fuckin insult my intelligence with that attitude crap, blondie. Unless you want some attitude.

I came damn close to fuckin that honky white pimp ass up. In middle middle age, I no longer lose my temper. I just get mean. Real mean.

Fire me, bitch.

Give me a chance to plead insanity. Push my ass and I'll fuck you up
with sexual harrassment charges. I hate to stoop that low but fuck with me and I will.

Attitude, hell. Don't pull that psycho crap on me, bitch. Nothing pisses
me off more.

I came real close to putting his fuckin blonde white ass
ponytail in the goddamn centerfuge.

Faizi

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[MKFaizi]

An aside: I've been using some Linux forums lately, and noticed hardly any female members, and a lot of fairly logical (though not in philosophy) problem-solving. The point is, these are bright people, non-Windows users, and quite a few of your downloadable files are in the Windows .chm format, David. If a Linux or other OS system doesn't have a dual-boot environment or a Windows emulator, they can't open them.

Hardly any female members. Impressive. Kind of like this forum except they do not discuss philosophy. But they have bright people.

Not like Genius.

Sounds like a very pristine environment. That is what is wanted here, I reckon. A pristine, pure problem solving environment. Bright people -- not necessarily original or individual or even thinking people.

Just sterile.

I think philosophy involves some dirt. Too sterile an environment invites infection. The more prim, the more vulgar. The more pretentiously pure, the more vice.

Faizi

[Kelly Jones]

As I recall it, there have been several "fairly logical (though not in philosophy) problem-solving...bright" kind of people come through here, Kelly. Where are they now, I wonder? Back out there solving problems, I suppose.

You can't make men out of eunuchs.

The point is, however: this is, apparently, intended to be a public forum. How can you have a public forum and not let the world in?

It's not the point. If one's values are recognised as valid, then they get perpetuated. That destroys worldly values. End of story.

I'm quite satisfied with the current set-up, myself. But I do think this post of yours belongs up there in "Genius Proper."

You are pushing my values out of your mind.


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[Kelly Jones]

Jesus had a great deal to say about politics! Remember the Pharisees?

Jesus *was* a politician. He was telling people how they ought to behave.


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I don't mind if there are two fori or one, as long as there aren't too many.

I'd like to see single-mindedness of purpose, that's all.



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[edit: Addition:]



Marsha,

The Linux fora (many, many different kinds) are anything but sterile. They're actually pretty weedy, slavish, highly emotional (help me! error! error!), and Linux-worshipping.



I noticed your outpouring of hatred against "the spirit of mediocre judgment" above.

I.e "I will not have my intelligence insulted by a pompous honky ass son of a bitch with a goddamned master's degree stamped on his white hairy ass. I am not his nigger. I am nobody's nigger. You talk about my attitude, bitch, and you've crossed the line." (etc.)

I can see why you wanted to attack his body, and destroy him. It's simply wanting to put that spirit out of existence. But your anger over the core idea is destroying your own ability to reason.

This is what my post in the "Porn" thread is about, and the other one with "Stop thinking out of your stomach", and "hit the target you're aiming for".

Otherwise, you're only perpetuating mediocrity, albeit in a slightly more grown-up fashion (righteous arrogance is better than tribalism, but still way down on the list).

Attitude, hell. Don't pull that psycho crap on me, bitch. Nothing pisses me off more.

So as long as you find this powerful hatred attractive, you won't like making it "filthy" with the crap of analysis.

(I'm assuming you were talking to people like myself, even though the anecdote was about the "white guy").



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[Kelly Jones]

I just had an experience much like the one you had with the "white nigger something-or-other". I wasn't standing with a stick in my hand, but writing to a forum.

My heart was beating quite strongly. The subconscious thought is "I am in warfare, and my life is being threatened."

"My life" means, as it did for you, "I am what I am". In a very fundamental way, the subtlest argument that was implying A=not-A was really about my mind judging my existence (Reality) NOT TO BE.

Irrationally, thoughts respond by gearing up to fight, instead of detecting this subconscious lie!

It is very deep down in the mind's thought processes: A=A is that far down, it is *essential*. It is the symbol of consciousness itself. No wonder there is so much anger that arises in *arguing* : it is the ego expressing its warfare.

But you know the most interesting part, was that I only realised this *after* I decided to take on the battle. It was when I was in recovery, that I wondered what had caused me to be so afraid. I had enough relief and "safety" to want to think about it.

So, one has to will to fight first, and then one will understand, having let the slaughter *to illogical thinking* occur.

Weininger wrote something like "Every truthful thought is a recovery."

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[David Quinn]

What about universities and schools, Marsha? Do you believe there should be a complete absence of rules and have anarchy reign? What do you think the result would be if discipline broke down, the atmosphere of learning dissipated and the kids could do whatever they please?

No one here wants a sterile environment. Having the main forum slightly more "pure" is simply the attempt to hold back the irrational elements of the world a little bit, to give people some space to breathe. I consider your reaction to this to be a touch over-dramatic, to say the least.

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[Leyla Shen]

Kelly wrote:

Jesus *was* a politician. He was telling people how they ought to behave.

Yet, he is held up here only as a wise man -- and his politics are never touched.

Why?

Allow me to re-quote David's comment and mine, thus inspired, in full:

David wrote:

Imagine people saying to Jesus, "Look Jesus, you keep on talking about the glories of Heaven and the need to devote our lives to God. This is all very well, but don't you get tired of saying this same stuff over and over? I certainly get tired of hearing it! Don't you want to talk about other things? What about political situation in Israel? Or the criminal trial of James the robber? Or the inequities of the Roman tax system? There are hundreds of things we could be talking about. But no, with you, it's always God this and God that. God, God, God, God, God!"

I responded:

Imagine??? Isn't that just about the entire subject matter of the New Testament?

Jesus had a great deal to say about politics! Remember the Pharisees?

I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make with your above statement, Kelly.