Kelly Jones wrote:
Look at the images of the penis stuffed into a vagina: and see how closely related it is to images where it's stuffing the mouth. The penis is an entity imagined to choke a "I-can-tear-down-anyone-with-a-mere-snotty-look" female, to prevent her from having any threatening come-back; or something that can spit out a bodiless slime, to indicate that female isn't even worth one's effort to form hateful words.
First of all: I LOVE PORN. I look at porn all the time. I masturbate over it all the time. I like all different types and categories of porn. So I might have something worthwhile to say on this subject.
Reading subtext into some things is just silly, and a case of severe projection. I had this English teacher in High School, and when the class would watch a video of a book we had read, she would pause the video every two minutes to point out a phallic symbol. When it wasn't phallic symbols it was some other arcane symbolic hogwash. If a character moved his little finger she would say that was symbolic of the US military industrial complex and its integral part in the quasi-fascist capitalist oligopoly. Sometimes I think things really don't need some maze of complex interpretations, they are pretty much what they appear to be on the surface.
Male monkeys get excited by videos of female monkey porn. The interest in female genitals and putting a penis in them is very very old. Now obviously there can be complex psychological reactions to sex and porn in humans, but I don't think you can write off the power of pure biological sexual desire, especially in males, and the simplicity in it. I have a penis and I really desire and like the idea of inserting it into a vagina. I like looking at vaginas and tits and arse and curves and pretty female faces. During their teens and twenties at least, many men would probably, in an ideal situation, like to have sex with a different beautiful woman or three, every day. I find it fascinating and maybe terrifying that such a force is able to be contained by civilisation.
Addressing your point about symbolic silencing of women: not all porn is about this domination of females in some sort of female-is-victim anti-porn-feminist type of way. Many guys like having sex, and watching porn involving sweet girls who we want to see receive pleasure and tenderness, and who we feel attracted to because they are not perceived to be threats who we must dominate into mute submission with our penises. There
is plenty of domination themed porn and sex out there for sure, but I don't think your statement is accurate for much of porn. There are so many variations in porn that have nothing to do with a penis entering a vagina too. Lesbians, dildos, masturbation, straight nude ect etc. I think men seek out all these types of porn with similar feelings of sexual desire.
Kelly Jones wrote:Also see that sex is a penis vs female story. There's no male identity in sex, he's not really there, and doesn't want to be there. It's far too undignified. If he is involved, porn immediately turns into an art form, such as homosexuality, with some deeper meaning and personality. Then he will show his face.
Way off base on that. I think the reason males are kept out of the picture in general is very simple - heterosexual men look at porn to see females. We don't want to see some guys face, or his hairy arse. We want to see sexy females. A lot of porn is just a type of virtual sex simulator. When we masturbate while looking at porn, we imagine we are having sex with the girl. If there is another guy there it just interferes with that.
Also, I don't think it's anything about the guys in the video thinking it's undignified at all. Have you watched any of the porn videos? A lot of these guys probably feel like great big studs being on video fucking. It's a notch on their belt, it's a dream job. It not unusual to seem them looking into the camera with smiles on their faces giving thumbs up and stuff. It is the audience that demands removal of the male from the picture.
Which also would explain why gay porn shows male faces: it's just a turn on for gays to see guys faces. Have you seen gay porn? Why do you think it is more artistic? I haven't seen much, cos it hasn't done anything for me yet, but all the stuff I've seen is almost exactly the same straightforward banging as any heterosexual male oriented porn. If you don't see meaning or personality in heterosexual porn, I doubt you'd see it in homosexual male porn.
Kelly Jones wrote:
Sexual desire is psychological violence through and through.
I know you are probably using a rare definition of psychological violence here, but I'm having a hard time seeing psychological violence in enjoyable consentual sex. But then you might see psychological violence in happiness too. Marsha has said some things in the past about the differences between how men and women see sex, and how she got over seeing sex and love as being very linked. I wonder if you might be viewing this subject, Kelly, from a more stereotypically female perspective where sex is more romantic/psychological and less physical/biological than the stereotypical males view.