I love honesty

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avidaloca
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Post by avidaloca » Mon Mar 06, 2006 5:09 pm

I'll never forget living in the mountains at Kevin's place a few years ago. Compared to the city, you just don't feel dirty. I went from daily showering to once a week because when the air is that pure you just don't take in the muck like you do in carbon-monoxide land.

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Matt Gregory
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Post by Matt Gregory » Mon Mar 06, 2006 5:41 pm

I shower almost every day. I never thought about it being linked to the area I live in, though. Maybe I wouldn't shower so much if I didn't live in such a shitty area, smoggy air and garbage laying all over the place and everything. I need to move. I needed to move about five years ago. I want to move to Norway, I think. I'm lazy, though, so I'll probably just sit here until I croak from smog disease or something.

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DHodges
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Your ass is huge

Post by DHodges » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:31 pm

Creative Fossil wrote: Oh and of course there was the usual, a friend asked me 'does my bum look big in this?' and I replied 'yes it does'. She didn't speak to me for three days and was never quite fully recovered.
The correct response is, "It's not the pants. Your ass is huge!"

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DHodges
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Pollution

Post by DHodges » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:32 pm

avidaloca wrote: I went from daily showering to once a week because when the air is that pure you just don't take in the muck like you do in carbon-monoxide land.
When I lived in Manhattan, my skin was constantly breaking out. When I moved, it completely cleared up.

propellerbeanie
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Post by propellerbeanie » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:55 pm

DavidQuinn000 wrote:propellerbeanie wrote:

So you've been a bitch to other women in the past - what of it? It doesn't change the fact that your views are so bland and generic that they invariably induce sleep in all who read them.


The problem with me is that no matter how biche I get it always makes me more of a bastard. The correct word for what I have been is: asshole. All men are assholes, and during my trip through assholeland I have learned to appreciate women as equals, so now I see that all my life as an asshole was a waste of their time and of my own, and was, in fact, a waste of a large portion of my life.
But, If my views are generic, and bland; you should be able to make short work of them. Perhaps what is somnambulant truth is truth to the alert. There are plenty of smart kids out there who know to little, and too many t-rex men like myself who know too much and think too little. Provide your own excitment if that is your concern.
Why are you on this forum? You're evidently not interested in any of the values that this forum expresses. All you seem to be doing is wasting everyone's time.
I think it was that A is not A thread. I thought: these guys could use some basics. If I am wasting your time then take me to class. What values does this forum express? It represents no certain value in my estimation, and rather expresses a meaness of education and reasoning abilities. Am I being too unfriendly.

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DHodges
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Honestly?

Post by DHodges » Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:02 am

propellerbeanie wrote:What values does this forum express?
It's at the top of the fucking page, fer chrissakes.
Am I being too unfriendly.
No, you are being too ignorant and egotistical. You think you already have all the answers. You don't have good questions yet. The unfriendliness comes from being called on it, which is unusual. It is painful to your ego.

In order to pursue truth and honesty, you have to confront your own lies. In order to pursue perfection, you have to examine your own imperfections and flaws. In order to pursue wisdom, you must confront your own foolishness.

Everything about it is painful to the ego.

propellerbeanie
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Re: Honestly?

Post by propellerbeanie » Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:05 am

DHodges wrote:
propellerbeanie wrote:What values does this forum express?
It's at the top of the fucking page, fer chrissakes.
Am I being too unfriendly.
No, you are being too ignorant and egotistical. You think you already have all the answers. You don't have good questions yet. The unfriendliness comes from being called on it, which is unusual. It is painful to your ego.

In order to pursue truth and honesty, you have to confront your own lies. In order to pursue perfection, you have to examine your own imperfections and flaws. In order to pursue wisdom, you must confront your own foolishness.



Everything about it is painful to the ego.
Paaaalease. Masculinity? Truth? Honesty? Perfection?, Courage?
A bunch of boys playing like men isn't a philosophy forum, it is a war. Only God is perfect, but you examples of masculinity and logic make me feel perfect. Which does hurt, because everytime I try to confront my own foolishness I trip over yours.
Now tell me. What is so impossible about filing away this suggestion till you grow up, that you actually live your lives honestly, with courage, to love and live like your lives depend upon it; that you should say and mean that the whole man dares to love without fear of pain, and looks to step beyond the the devaluation of women as a form of devaluation of human kind. What does it take to make you see that the exalted position of father and husband is fully as masculine, and demanding of the courage of honesty, and of the strength only honesty gives when compared with that demanded of a philosopher. It takes strength and wisdom to reach for a piece eternity, and love -to cradle it your arms like your own. Where can you find the honor to make a commitment to love and to stand by it? True courage is not the sum of declarations that life is nothing, but the recognition that life is everything, and then the willingness to risk that life to keep that life.

Please be aware. I am not egotistical, but superegotistical.
I have more answers than questions, see how that works? Ask the right questions and read the right books and you will have some answers as well.

propellerbeanie
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Re: Your ass is huge

Post by propellerbeanie » Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:20 am

DHodges wrote:
Creative Fossil wrote: Oh and of course there was the usual, a friend asked me 'does my bum look big in this?' and I replied 'yes it does'. She didn't speak to me for three days and was never quite fully recovered.
The correct response is, "It's not the pants. Your ass is huge!"
If a girl asks: do these pants make me look fat, you say, No! do they make me look stupid?

If a girl asks: do these pants make me look ugly, or stupid, or low rent; would you take it as a serious question seriously? Look for the question behind the question, and answer that as it pleases you.

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DHodges
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Honestly, Love?

Post by DHodges » Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:12 am

propellerbeanie wrote:What does it take to make you see that the exalted position of father and husband is fully as masculine, and demanding of the courage of honesty, and of the strength only honesty gives when compared with that demanded of a philosopher.
Well, so far you seem to have been repeating that you think love is the greatest thing ever, being a father and husband etc., and isn't reproduction grand.

But you have just been asserting it. You haven't given any argument as to why you think it is so. So, it seems to just be your opinion, a statement of what you happen to value, your particular taste.

You seem to want to say that it is objectively the best thing, not just in your opinion - but I don't recall anything you've said that would support that. Have I misunderstood you?

propellerbeanie
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Re: Honestly, Love?

Post by propellerbeanie » Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:54 am

DHodges wrote:
propellerbeanie wrote:What does it take to make you see that the exalted position of father and husband is fully as masculine, and demanding of the courage of honesty, and of the strength only honesty gives when compared with that demanded of a philosopher.
Well, so far you seem to have been repeating that you think love is the greatest thing ever, being a father and husband etc., and isn't reproduction grand.

But you have just been asserting it. You haven't given any argument as to why you think it is so. So, it seems to just be your opinion, a statement of what you happen to value, your particular taste.

You seem to want to say that it is objectively the best thing, not just in your opinion - but I don't recall anything you've said that would support that. Have I misunderstood you?
I think it is so, love marriage baby carriage is the best thing because it a celebration of the cycle of life. Life is continuous, and if it is not it is nothing. If my life ends with me, and if I have shared this wonder with no one then did I live, and was I ever? Some seeds get eaten, and some get spent for nothing; but the seed that gets planted and bears fruit has the name Hope. I dance around this tree of hope the way a pagan dances around a fire. We live in the eyes of the young, and their laughter is our own. The life we have is a gift, perhaps from God, but certainly from those who raised us. For those with children and with the courage to demand them of life, life is eternal.
Yet, without children, to be without love as well is torture. Can we say we see it if it is not shared or say we know without knowing together? A life without love is no life at all. Love is a prayer, and a life without prayer is no where. Objectively, love is the object of life, to share and lose oneself in the common identity of love. Can't beat it.

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David Quinn
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Post by David Quinn » Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:05 am

propellerbeanie wrote:
All men are assholes, and during my trip through assholeland I have learned to appreciate women as equals, so now I see that all my life as an asshole was a waste of their time and of my own, and was, in fact, a waste of a large portion of my life.

If all men are assholes, and if women are the equal of men, does this mean that all women are assholes too?

But, If my views are generic, and bland; you should be able to make short work of them.
"All men are assholes" - this is a generic statement straight out of the feminist textbook. It is a bland and meaningless statement whose only function is to ingratiate yourself with women and to open their legs.

I think it is so, love marriage baby carriage is the best thing because it a celebration of the cycle of life.
No, what you are celebrating is your own ego and its emotional indulgences.

A true celebration of life entails opening up one's mind to the Ultimate Truth and becoming intimately familiar with it.

Yet, without children, to be without love as well is torture.

Heroin-addicts say much the same thing about the prospect of being without heroin.

To treat another adult as though he or she were a souce of heroin-like pleasure is bad enough, but to treat children in this manner is criminal. It is tantamount to child-abuse.

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Leyla Shen
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Post by Leyla Shen » Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:56 pm

propellerbeanie wrote:
I hate to have to simplify it because it cannot get much simple-er. When you love someone a turkey under their shirt doesn't make them look fat. The shirt might be too small but nothing is going to make them look fat. If you love some one it is because you can see their soul, which, if beautiful enough to love, stays beautiful. Bless you my child!
You call that simplification? Wow.

Fat n. 1 : animal tissue consisting chiefly of cells distended with greasy or oily matter 2 a : oily or greasy matter making up the bulk of adipose tissue and often abundant in seeds b : any of numerous compounds of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen that are glycerides of fatty acids, are the chief constituents of plant and animal fat, are a major class of energy-rich food, and are soluble in organic solvents but not in water c : a solid or semisolid fat as distinguished from an oil. 3 a : spec. (in human women) an imaginary excess of bodily fat unseen by those in love and caused by wearing clothing that is too small (how they make this distinction of "too small" then, God only knows) eg, t-shirts and jeans. Ladies, grab your size 8 jeans and coat hangers -- fat is in! b : archaic big-boned.

Beingof1
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Post by Beingof1 » Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:16 pm

DHodges:
In order to pursue truth and honesty, you have to confront your own lies. In order to pursue perfection, you have to examine your own imperfections and flaws. In order to pursue wisdom, you must confront your own foolishness.

Everything about it is painful to the ego.
Thank you sir, may I have another.
Truth is often painful to the ego and it screams as if mortally wounded. That means the person is making progress - funny eh?

The usual response is comparisons.
The correct response is, "It's not the pants. Your ass is huge!"
LOL LOL LOL

Jason:
I find expressions of really core authenticity to be thrilling, liberating and hopeful.
me 2 - anything else and I spend time alone, I would rather be alone than drawn into others loneliness.
If survival means having to wear a facade, I don't think I want to survive. I feel suffocated by facades.
"You are not far from the Kingdom"
-- Yeshua
Honesty is freedom. Honesty might get you killed, but that may be the cost of this freedom. There is less danger in lying and submission, but there is also less passion and life to be had. Too scared of the dangers of living authentically, I submit.
There is hope yet. Truth wants to break out.
I think I enjoyed reading these posts by you more than anything I have read in awhile.

Leyla Shen:
Deep beneath them in every manchild is the potential for something much greater.
This thread is powerful indeed.

propellerbeanie
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Post by propellerbeanie » Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:33 pm

Jason wrote:
propellerbeanie wrote: You should know...
bullshit is the lubricant that keeps the earth spinning on its poles. In regard to honesty I have one firm rule: Shit not thy self. Which is not to say I lie to others. To do so would be pointless and self defeating.
Are you saying that lying to others is pointless and self-defeating? If you are, I think you are lying.
I have a unitary view of my society, my humanity, and my family. If I try to break up my view of society to justify some action or lie that injures some part of my society I cannot. The expression: What goes around etc. covers this, because it is in these units that all lies and injustice play themselves out.

[
quote]You go to a doctor to get well, and not to play guessing games. Most people are like doctors in helping to medicate a situation, any situation; so to lie to those who might help, is pointless. Sometimes people are not asking for an honest answer to the question asked; but to an honest answer to a question not asked. If a girl you love asks if some clothes make her look fat, she is asking if you love her, because love always makes beautiful and never makes fat. It may seem a little self defeating to ask questions without a view to an honest answer to that particular question, but honesty is the desire.
"If you really love me, you will help me to continue denying the truth about myself, and continue to hide what you truly think."
All that glitters, and beauty is skin deap. Women change their shape and appearance all the time. Clothes that fit them one month won't fit them the next, and the month after will fit them again. My wife is in great shape, and an act of congress wouldn't make her look fat. But if the question were: does this dress make me look republican? I would answer the question as I see it. Which might be: Do you love me? Or May be: are these clothes too tight on me? So, it is not about denial. If you love someone you rather object to essentially perjorative terms like ugly, or fat being tied to them. And, for a variety of reasons, perhaps most significantly a male dominated society, Women are over conscious of their appearance, of their beauty, and youth. If you are spending ten minutes a day with a girl based upon her looks it is a microcopic example of a wasted life. The beauty of the unintelligent quickly fades, while the beauty of the intelligent grows.
Women know that men lie about love all the time, but to love is to see beauty in your love, and when the truth has more value than love to the lover -then truth, abstract, cold, and brutal is that ones true love. That man should invest in a good bed and plenty of blankets because he will forever sleep alone. And if you think some clothes don't fit your love then say that you don't like them.
If someone loves their partner partly because of their lies, they are loving a false image of that person, they are loving a persona. For me real intimacy has always come from sharing the honest truth about myself, but be too honest and it can also (always, sometimes?) kill love. Can love survive when two people see the bare naked truth of each other? Or must we lie to others to preserve their love for us, and us for them?
Women hate men for their lies. And not much better is cruelty pretending to honesty.
It strikes me as sad and spirit-sapping and inauthentic to love a persona, yet that seems to be the norm. It's like living in a minefield. You can't express your real spontaneous honest self. You have to think out each move, carefully weigh up the risks, and then cautiously take a step, hoping not to step on a mine. Even in a minefield, it's easy for some to fool themselves that they are happy, just by being perky. I know, I'm one of them.

It might be painful and risky, but I still think truth will set me free. Personas and lies feel like shackles to me.
[/quote]

That is what I am trying to tell you. That you do not love a persona (mask), rather you love the person within the persona. And, If you want and need a love relationship, which is no mean feat, you pledge your love through good and bad, and then, and after the love and the relationship are the prize, but there will be times when the whole of everything will be riding on your honor, and on your pledge. The question for me as a man is not whether there is a fit object for my love, but do I have the courage and the honor to allow my love, and the strength to maintain it through all of life's tragedies and pains?

propellerbeanie
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Post by propellerbeanie » Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:11 am

DavidQuinn000 wrote:propellerbeanie wrote:
All men are assholes, and during my trip through assholeland I have learned to appreciate women as equals, so now I see that all my life as an asshole was a waste of their time and of my own, and was, in fact, a waste of a large portion of my life.

If all men are assholes, and if women are the equal of men, does this mean that all women are assholes too?
Women are no better than men and little different. Men are Assholes in relation to Women, and sometimes, in relation to other men. But men can change, which for young men only adds to the problem. For example, something you may find useful: If you are looking for a love relationship, and meeting single girls, always ask them if they have brothers. If they do not then you will not be happy with them because what a girl gets with the example of her father alone is a man with that quality for the most part sublimated or eliminated. But if she has brothers she has no illusions about what men roughly her own age are, which is assholes. Her guard will be high, and her expectations low.



But, If my views are generic, and bland; you should be able to make short work of them.
"All men are assholes" - this is a generic statement straight out of the feminist textbook. It is a bland and meaningless statement whose only function is to ingratiate yourself with women and to open their legs.


The only woman I love, or can love does not read this. I am more interested in opening the minds of men than the legs of women. Nor do I expect that young men and women will not make the mistakes I made with gusto. I had a real advantage in parents who love each other which allowed me to see, in fact, how very necessary two parents are to the full developement of the person, and gave me the basic ballast against the waves of depravity to allow me to seek and form an essentially successful relationship. So I offer some words of enlightenment, that only the somewhat enlightened can accept.

I think it is so, love marriage baby carriage is the best thing because it a celebration of the cycle of life.
No, what you are celebrating is your own ego and its emotional indulgences.

A true celebration of life entails opening up one's mind to the Ultimate Truth and becoming intimately familiar with it.
The ego is a consolation prize for a failed existence. The ego is the sterility of kant and Nietzsche and Spinoza and how many other philosophers who could not manage relationships. Love is eccentric. Love dissolves the shell of ego, and lets the soul fly, unencumbered by the armor of ego.

Yet, without children, to be without love as well is torture.

Heroin-addicts say much the same thing about the prospect of being without heroin.

To treat another adult as though he or she were a souce of heroin-like pleasure is bad enough, but to treat children in this manner is criminal. It is tantamount to child-abuse.


Making babies is only child abuse to the person who hates life. Sex without love is an addiction. Sex with love is forgiving and forgetting, re-unite-ing, meditating, and medicating, and sharing. I know sex as an addiction, and heroin; and the relationship between those and true love is only casual.

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