I love honesty

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hsandman
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I love honesty

Post by hsandman » Sun Feb 05, 2006 6:42 pm

Maybe because i encounter it so rarely.
The raw and dirty,brutal truth of human thoughts please me.
Soft and unguarded, exposed to the elements like a naked body.. it's repulsive and beautiful at the same time. Honesty is beautiful don't you think? There is something really satisfying when someone "just admits the truth" like dog exposing jugular as a sign of complete submission and trust, the inherit danger in such act is trilling, its like watching a tightrope walker or daredevil perform makes me feel somehow closer to human race, instead of a this theatrical facade that the nature imposes on "life" and humans we call "survival". well enjoy

http://grouphug.us/

Why they think that number label insted of meaningfull letter arangement label gives them more anonymity is beyond me.. well no, not realy :P
I fought wqith my girlfreind of five months last night. For the past three months she has claimed that she is in love with me. I have made it clear that, while I adore her,respect her and enjoy the time we spend together, I don't have the same depth of feeling for her. How is it then, that I felt my honor was insulted last when she bitterly accused me of only caring about sex? Her concern was valid. Her anxiety, real. When she reduced my affection for her to a venemous cliche and told me to leave, I was outraged.
So I walked over to her and slapped her, hard.
I've never hit a woman before.
I apologized for it immediately.
But honestly, it felt wonderful to exact simple and immediate revenge.
Lying about about my remorse, that's what made me feel sick
I've spent most of my life trying to make myself strong, physically and emotionally. Maybe it's because I'm under 5 ft and people just assume I'm sweet. I'm now at the level where i can beat up most guys (I'm a female and weigh under 50kgs...) and have basically turned off my feelings and converted them into sarcasm instead.
Now you tell me I'm intimidating! Now! Well you know what, I'm happy with who I am and I'm not going to become some submissive housewife for anyone, not even you.
Where are the evolved men?!
It's just a ride.

propellerbeanie
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Post by propellerbeanie » Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:18 am

If you love honesty make friends with a mirror. They always tell the truth in a left handed sort of way. Don't look at me. I only tell the truth when it will hurt someones feeling and not help them one little bit. Forgive my honesty; for if weapons and fists did not lead so often to a charge of assault or murder it would be of no value to me. The truth comes in many disguises, but honesty always comes dressed in boxers or briefs, like an ass.

Creative Fossil
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Post by Creative Fossil » Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:20 am

Judging by the quotes you have posted and the immediate reply, I can only assume you judge an honest repsonse as an 'unkind' one, and anything nice is bullshit/insincerity etc etc.

Some people are genuinely nice and when they say something nice it is every bit as honest as when u hear something nasty.

Myself, having known a lot of 'nasty people' always found them to have underlying insecuritites and really they actually were not so nasty after all, merely hiding and using their nastiness as a mask.

Just because something presents as wicked does not make it more honest, can just as easily be yet another lie. People lie to themsleves all the time.

Creative Fossil
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Post by Creative Fossil » Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:25 am

With regard to the man hitting the woman in the first quote, I actually would deduce both reponses to be honest.

When we respond to the call of 'adrenalin' of course it feels good.
The immediate (without hesitation) apology demonstrates this was not a lie, he realised that in civilised culture this action was wrong, but while feeling this his adrenalin was still permitting him the release of tension allowing him to enjoy his phsical act.

There were two contradictory feelings and the man in question opted to recognise the 'physical' rather than emotional response to what he did as being the truth.

None the less, one feeling was adrenalin driven and the other emtionally driven, but both equally valid.

Creative Fossil
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Post by Creative Fossil » Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:31 am

With regard to the second quote, short people often have 'chips on their shoulder' and feel the need to make up for what they lack in height with either strength or vloume! I can relate to this need.

We do not however define our strength by brutalising others verbally or phsyically and anyone who thinks this is true has lost the battle. True strength comes from dignity, discipline and self control, not charging around saying 'I am hard'.

Feeling the need to say 'I am hard' is actually denying the truth, the truth that you have a weakness and that others may see this weakness if you let your guard slip, so you have to keep it up.

There is no honesty in that quote.

propellerbeanie
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Post by propellerbeanie » Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:55 am

Creative Fossil wrote:Judging by the quotes you have posted and the immediate reply, I can only assume you judge an honest repsonse as an 'unkind' one, and anything nice is bullshit/insincerity etc etc.

Some people are genuinely nice and when they say something nice it is every bit as honest as when u hear something nasty.

Myself, having known a lot of 'nasty people' always found them to have underlying insecuritites and really they actually were not so nasty after all, merely hiding and using their nastiness as a mask.

Just because something presents as wicked does not make it more honest, can just as easily be yet another lie. People lie to themsleves all the time.
A turd is tuff to catch, but worse to bat. The truth is hard to catch too, so if you want honesty shoot for balanced, fair, and even kind. Honesty honestly is over chromed and under engineered. Look at someone like general Stillwell in WW2 China. The guy was hard driving, brutal, bitter and honest. It gained him nothing, and probobly worked against him and those he was working to help. And it was unnecessary. You don't have to sugar coat shit to feed it to folks. Package it correctly, and if you charge outragously for it, it will be desireable out of dearness. What I am saying, or trying to say, is that honesty implies a knowledge of truth few possess, and one should be certain it is required or desired before it is offered. Naturally, I often break my own rules.

Creative Fossil
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Post by Creative Fossil » Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:20 pm

This is VERY tue

Myself, I have found honesty does not pay! In certain parts of the country I live in I have rec'd a very poor reception for being honest, the culture there is indeed to sugar coat and deny what is real.

Once in a work situation (and this is so ridiculous it defy's all sense- (to me at least)

Many moons ago a boss of mine (Doctor) asked me where a file was, I advised him that I had put it onon his desk and so that is where it would be. He told me it was not on his desk and I repeated myself, that this is where Ihad put it. After work I was called to a disciplinary meeting, where he told me that in future, it would be 'polite' if I was to say to him when asked the same question, 'I am not sure where it is, I will go and look for you....ah here it is........blah blah' . This amplified for me many problems I have had by simply stating the truth (as I see it) I do not use 20 words when 3 will do, and this not desirable apparantly. Oh and of course there was the usual, a friend asked me 'does my bum look big in this?' and I replied 'yes it does'. She didn't speak to me for three days and was never quite fully recovered.

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Jason
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Post by Jason » Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:37 pm

Creative Fossil wrote:This is VERY tue

Myself, I have found honesty does not pay!
That depends on what you consider payment to be. I can see beneficial things in both the situations you described.

Creative Fossil
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Post by Creative Fossil » Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:57 pm

Jason wrote:
Creative Fossil wrote:This is VERY tue

Myself, I have found honesty does not pay!
That depends on what you consider payment to be. I can see beneficial things in both the situations you described.
Again you are demonstrating a great ability to completely miss the point, it did not pay for me in either scenario, first scenario because I was disciplined, you consider this positive? Apparantly you have never had a job.
The second scenario, being ignored by someone I shared the same living space with is not pleasant, positve benefits? zero.

If you are going to make a comment at least follow it up. What do you see as payment in those scenarios?

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Jason
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Post by Jason » Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:32 pm

Creative Fossil wrote:
Jason wrote:
Creative Fossil wrote:This is VERY tue

Myself, I have found honesty does not pay!
That depends on what you consider payment to be. I can see beneficial things in both the situations you described.
Again you are demonstrating a great ability to completely miss the point, it did not pay for me in either scenario, first scenario because I was disciplined, you consider this positive? Apparantly you have never had a job.
The second scenario, being ignored by someone I shared the same living space with is not pleasant, positve benefits? zero.

If you are going to make a comment at least follow it up. What do you see as payment in those scenarios?
The payments were......

1. Honesty showed you your boss was an arsehole, who would treat you like his servant. It also showed you that you were a pussy who was more worried about avoiding being disciplined than acting in a way befitting a rational thinking human being.

2. Honesty showed that your friend severely lacked self-esteem about her butt-size, which you may have been able to help her out with, but instead it seems you probably chose to shrink away from the opportunity and wrap her up in cotton wool. It also showed she lacked the ability to share honest opinions, which could interfere with any worthwhile friendship in my opinion.

Creative Fossil
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Post by Creative Fossil » Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:39 pm

Jason my advice to you is to join a forum for the intellectuially challenged as posting here demosntrates your stupidity and you cannot benefit from that knowledge, as you will just wind yourself get in a teenage strop (if you've reached 13 yet and thats debateable) and start hurling names and abuse. Leave grown ups to the intelligent stuff, oh and goodbye, if you are the only poster in this forum, I'm off to find some real intelligence hopefully grown ups too.

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Jason
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Post by Jason » Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:47 pm

His job done, Jason rides off into the hazy distance. A legend that will not be forgotten any time soon. Whenever or wherever a prick appears, he will be there, to ensure that non-prickiness reigns once again across the genius forums.
Last edited by Jason on Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Creative Fossil
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Post by Creative Fossil » Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:49 pm

Jason wrote:His job done, Jason rides off into the hazy distance. A legend that will not be forgotten any time soon. Anytime a prick appears, he will be there, to ensure that non-prickiness reigns once again across the genius forums.
You are the only prick, which is why this forum is so empty, no one wants to talk to pricks, enjoy the silence ass hole, oh and do try to act a little bit mature, I'm now guessing 11yrs old?

propellerbeanie
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Post by propellerbeanie » Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:13 pm

Creative Fossil wrote:
Jason wrote:His job done, Jason rides off into the hazy distance. A legend that will not be forgotten any time soon. Anytime a prick appears, he will be there, to ensure that non-prickiness reigns once again across the genius forums.
You are the only prick, which is why this forum is so empty, no one wants to talk to pricks, enjoy the silence ass hole, oh and do try to act a little bit mature, I'm now guessing 11yrs old?
You should know...

bullshit is the lubricant that keeps the earth spinning on its poles. In regard to honesty I have one firm rule: Shit not thy self. Which is not to say I lie to others. To do so would be pointless and self defeating. You go to a doctor to get well, and not to play guessing games. Most people are like doctors in helping to medicate a situation, any situation; so to lie to those who might help, is pointless. Sometimes people are not asking for an honest answer to the question asked; but to an honest answer to a question not asked.
If a girl you love asks if some clothes make her look fat, she is asking if you love her, because love always makes beautiful and never makes fat. It may seem a little self defeating to ask questions without a view to an honest answer to that particular question, but honesty is the desire. Women know that men lie about love all the time, but to love is to see beauty in your love, and when the truth has more value than love to the lover -then truth, abstract, cold, and brutal is that ones true love. That man should invest in a good bed and plenty of blankets because he will forever sleep alone. And if you think some clothes don't fit your love then say that you don't like them.

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Leyla Shen
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Post by Leyla Shen » Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:16 am

Father Beanie (Hail Mary, Mother of Grace):

Thanks for the sermon, but I must now confess:

I love my children.

I have no desire to sleep with them. Therefore, I don’t care how big their butts are and, strangely enough, they do not ever seem to have thought I would.

When my son requests a piercing, and my response is: when you can come up with an argument that benefits your mind, I will say yes. Until then, my answer is no, and that will hold at least until you are self-sufficient enough to get one yourself without having to ask me;

When my daughter asks if she looks nice in an outfit and I ask her to give some thought to why those whom she mirrors dress that way;

Have I taught them love?

I do not fear that the day will come when their rooms are empty and my house completely barren of pattering feet, the echo of broken voice boxes, a laundry full of clothes and a purse full of more bills than money. To me, these things are the superficial things of life. Deep beneath them in every manchild is the potential for something much greater.

Is there something wrong with me?

I think, if a girl asks you whether her arse is fat, she is not asking if you love her -- it is quite obvious to me that such a person does not know who she is, if she is any one indeed. She is asking what love is and what it has to do with her arse. Of course, she doesn’t know this anymore than you do, apparently. That is why you usually have to end up dealing with such questions and issues for quite some time in one form of “personal” insecurity or another.

You are not required to tell the truthful man who his bedfellow is. Surely, he himself knows it better than anyone. Nor, then, are you qualified to judge the quality of it, save only from the perspective of one whose bedfellow is a woman.

If you found truth cold, hard and brutal, then you do not know love, or truth, either. Yes, the cold, hard, brutal truth about the size of a woman’s arse…

What a funny thing to admit that truth and relationships cannot coexist in the bedroom, and yet to choose a woman’s company there instead, til death do you part. Is this love? Is this where the size of her arse and your conscience doesn’t matter?

Be honest. She’s weak. And you can’t bear the thought of making her strong for the sake of your own weakness. You need her and she needs you .

But, I -- I still think I need Truth more than any man in my bed.

Oh, Father Beanie, have I been possessed by the devil?

propellerbeanie
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Post by propellerbeanie » Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:19 am

I hate to have to simplify it because it cannot get much simple-er. When you love someone a turkey under their shirt doesn't make them look fat. The shirt might be too small but nothing is going to make them look fat. If you love some one it is because you can see their soul, which, if beautiful enough to love, stays beautiful. Bless you my child!

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David Quinn
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Post by David Quinn » Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:59 am

You really are a very tedious individual, propellerbeanie. I don't think I've come across an individual as tedious as you - at least not for a couple of weeks. I can't even get through to the end of your posts, they are so tedious. Whenever I try to read a sentence of yours, I immediately start falling asleep. Either that or I start retching and vomiting with the sheer tedium of it all.

Oprah Winfrey would love you, I'm sure, because you are so conventional and tedious. And I'm sure those whom you "love", and who "love" you back, are just as tedious as you are. And should anyone of them ever start to become interesting by having a thought, you would instantly leap over to him or her and nip it in the bud. And you would then drone on endlessly in the most tedious manner, spewing your tedious, predictable, conventional, womanish views on love. In this way, all future possibility of thought arising in the minds of your loved ones vanishes and you can go back to sleeping soundly at night.

This is the violent nature of your love. With every loving movement you make, thought is murdered, the path to enlightenment is annihilated, and future sages are killed. And you don't even know you are doing it.

Perhaps this is the true meaning of the phrase: "Love is blind" ....?

-

propellerbeanie
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Post by propellerbeanie » Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:50 pm

Sorry sweetheart, but your post makes your head look fat. Now do you like honesty?

Like the DI said: this is what I'm going to tell you. And then I'll tell you what I am going to tell you, and then I will tell you what I just told you.
And if that were real communication, there would be feed back. And I can't count on anyone I talk to being smart enough to understand what I am saying before I tickle a key, except you.

I am afraid you are wrong about my opinions being womanish. They are not. I have lived long enough to regret being an asshole in regard to women, and to see women as human beings abused by assholes, which is the price they pay to reproduce themselves. Sorry about the honesty. Sorry about dumming it down, too. its hard on me as well. Some times the truth is simple, and people out of their own complexity will not accept it as such.

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David Quinn
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Post by David Quinn » Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:38 pm

propellerbeanie wrote:
I am afraid you are wrong about my opinions being womanish. They are not. I have lived long enough to regret being an asshole in regard to women, and to see women as human beings abused by assholes, which is the price they pay to reproduce themselves.

So you've been a bitch to other women in the past - what of it? It doesn't change the fact that your views are so bland and generic that they invariably induce sleep in all who read them.

Why are you on this forum? You're evidently not interested in any of the values that this forum expresses. All you seem to be doing is wasting everyone's time.

-

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Jason
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Post by Jason » Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:03 pm

propellerbeanie wrote: You should know...

bullshit is the lubricant that keeps the earth spinning on its poles. In regard to honesty I have one firm rule: Shit not thy self. Which is not to say I lie to others. To do so would be pointless and self defeating.
Are you saying that lying to others is pointless and self-defeating? If you are, I think you are lying.
You go to a doctor to get well, and not to play guessing games. Most people are like doctors in helping to medicate a situation, any situation; so to lie to those who might help, is pointless. Sometimes people are not asking for an honest answer to the question asked; but to an honest answer to a question not asked. If a girl you love asks if some clothes make her look fat, she is asking if you love her, because love always makes beautiful and never makes fat. It may seem a little self defeating to ask questions without a view to an honest answer to that particular question, but honesty is the desire.
"If you really love me, you will help me to continue denying the truth about myself, and continue to hide what you truly think."
Women know that men lie about love all the time, but to love is to see beauty in your love, and when the truth has more value than love to the lover -then truth, abstract, cold, and brutal is that ones true love. That man should invest in a good bed and plenty of blankets because he will forever sleep alone. And if you think some clothes don't fit your love then say that you don't like them.
If someone loves their partner partly because of their lies, they are loving a false image of that person, they are loving a persona. For me real intimacy has always come from sharing the honest truth about myself, but be too honest and it can also (always, sometimes?) kill love. Can love survive when two people see the bare naked truth of each other? Or must we lie to others to preserve their love for us, and us for them?

It strikes me as sad and spirit-sapping and inauthentic to love a persona, yet that seems to be the norm. It's like living in a minefield. You can't express your real spontaneous honest self. You have to think out each move, carefully weigh up the risks, and then cautiously take a step, hoping not to step on a mine. Even in a minefield, it's easy for some to fool themselves that they are happy, just by being perky. I know, I'm one of them.

It might be painful and risky, but I still think truth will set me free. Personas and lies feel like shackles to me.

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Jason
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Post by Jason » Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:51 pm

hsandman wrote:Maybe because i encounter it so rarely.
The raw and dirty,brutal truth of human thoughts please me.
Soft and unguarded, exposed to the elements like a naked body.. it's repulsive and beautiful at the same time. Honesty is beautiful don't you think? There is something really satisfying when someone "just admits the truth" like dog exposing jugular as a sign of complete submission and trust, the inherit danger in such act is trilling, its like watching a tightrope walker or daredevil perform makes me feel somehow closer to human race, instead of a this theatrical facade that the nature imposes on "life" and humans we call "survival".
I find expressions of really core authenticity to be thrilling, liberating and hopeful. There are things that I have done that I consider to have been really authentic, and they broke all the rules and expectations, and I sometimes payed dearly for them. But damnit, it was thrilling and liberating and I knew deep in the core of my being that they were the right thing to do. Too bad I didn't have the balls to continue my authenticity indefinitely, I always shrunk back into my persona, my mask.

If survival means having to wear a facade, I don't think I want to survive. I feel suffocated by facades.

You compare brutal honesty to submission and exposing the jugular. I think it is the exact opposite. Submission is to cower and force yourself to hide who you really are, to lie, to wear a mask. I think it is lying that is submission.

Honesty is freedom. Honesty might get you killed, but that may be the cost of this freedom. There is less danger in lying and submission, but there is also less passion and life to be had. Too scared of the dangers of living authentically, I submit.

Choose honesty you choose danger, excitement and the possibility of true fulfillment. Maybe just being totally honest is fulfillment in itself, even if you don't achieve your ultimate desires. Choose lying you choose mundanity, mind-numbing repetition of expectations and the impossibility of true fulfillment.

I've got a challenge for myself and anyone: skip for joy down the street. Can I do it, or must I submit to my embarassment, unable to break out of the straightjacket of expectations of normality? Must I remain a drone, even down to the level of walking around "normally"? Funny, it seems I'm under such all-consuming conformity that I almost march around the streets like a soldier.

There is hope yet. Truth wants to break out.

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Kevin Solway
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Post by Kevin Solway » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:14 am

Jason wrote:Funny, it seems I'm under such all-consuming conformity that I almost march around the streets like a soldier.
Sometimes I run around the place - if I have energy to burn or would like to get somewhere quickly. If you are dressed in normal clothes, and obviously aren't a jogger, it gets you a few strange looks.

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Kevin Solway
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Washing

Post by Kevin Solway » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:22 am

An interesting thing in a similar vein:

A chap rang up a science talkback radio program here in Australia and said how he only showered once a week. He never got skin infections of any kind. He said that most people, working in sedentary jobs, didn't need to shower more than once a week, and even if you worked in a physicallly active job, twice would be plenty.

Imagine how much water, energy, and time that would save, he said.

The incredibly lame response of the program host was to say "Yes, but you might get infections", and "Other people would be likely to complain about the smell, unless they were showering as infrequently as yourself", and "I like to wash off the dead skin cells at night so they don't get onto my bedsheets".

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Jason
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Post by Jason » Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:48 pm

Where did this idea of skin infections come from? I wouldn't be surprised if it is just an urban myth/old wives tale, that can easily live on just because so few people stop showering for any period of time. I probably average one shower per week and I don't get skin infections.

Here is an interesting essay on the issue(on one of my favourite websites):
"Washing... and brainwashing"
http://deoxy.org/ct/washing.htm
If you like that you might wanna check this too:
http://deoxy.org/ct/index.htm

MKFaizi

Post by MKFaizi » Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:52 pm

Generally, people are obsessed with the idea of germs. Germs exist -- God knows I see billions of them every day in my work.

Beyond childhood, obsessive preoccupation with bacteria causes illnesses. We are so obsessed with antibacterial this and that, that we make ourselves susceptible to bacterial or viral illness.

Some degree of dirt is beneficial. Too pristine an environment makes us subject to allergies and bacteria and viruses.

Faizi

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