Compete Detachment from All Family

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Jason
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Re: Compete Detachment from All Family

Post by Jason » Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:32 pm

MKFaizi wrote:I made that final break today. I finally realized that I do not belong with them. We have common early experiences but nothing else. This was my last Christmas. No more Thanksgivings. No more birthdays. I'm done.

My kids no longer need me and I do not need them.

I am on my own.

Thank God.

Faizi

I realize this is the brothel and so it doesn't have to be about the heights of philosophical thought, but I wonder why you write this type of stuff Marsha? Are you just gossiping? Do you have some emotional need to share this? Do you want support or analysis from other list members? Is there some sort of insight, influence or interest you think we'll find in this?
Last edited by Jason on Thu Dec 29, 2005 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LooF
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Post by LooF » Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:28 pm

mkfaizi, do you always try to convince yourself of something you don't believe?

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Post by avidaloca » Thu Dec 29, 2005 8:41 pm

personally i don't really mind Marsha as long as it doesn't drag on too much on a single idea. But it doesn't, 99% of the time.

I also read a bit more into it than the incidentals. It is the attitude that is interesting and a stimulating part of this dialogue.

The fact that the language is compressed and cut-back shows a need to put forth ideas and not simply ramblings.

In any case, I welcome the discussion on the merits of this and other posts.

MKFaizi

Post by MKFaizi » Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:51 am

Bitch,

No, it was a big thing for me. I am not here whimpering and seeking support nor do I think I have gotten any support -- whatever that is.

I answered the questions asked of me.

Could be this is a tender subject for you because you still live with your parents.

Loco is right. It is not about the incidentals. It is about the natural shedding of attachments. It is also about recognition of the ugliness.

I did see my son tonight. But it is different -- better. I enjoyed listening to him playing his guitar. Not like a mom. More like someone who can appreciate musicianship.

What is the nature of your attachments, Jason?

Faizi

MKFaizi

Post by MKFaizi » Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:16 pm

I have witnessed patients having extreme bipolar episodes. Pretty scary.

Then, there is Bipolar II. This a fairly new diagnosis and fashionable.

My nephew chose to have this diagnosis rather than merely depressed. He read about it on the internet and went to his psychiatrist and told him that he thought he must be bipolar. The psychiatrist said, "Okay."

I was diagnosed as bipolar II a couple of years back. But I have come to believe it is a bogus diagnosis. I don't have mood swings like a truly bipolar person, thank God.

I have depression. Not circumstantial depression. More like the clinical kind. I am usually all right. I cut way down on the Zoloft when I can. I recently increased taking it again so that I would not kill our new receptionist. I gave her a tongue lashing today but, had I not increased the med, I would have jerked her out of her chair and thrown her on the floor and put my foot on her chest. Not kidding.

I am still attached to people being treated like human beings, whether or not they are in fact human. Rubs my idealism the wrong way when I see people in need being abused.

I might get fired for that tongue lashing. But I really don't give a shit.

People cannot choose to be bipolar I but they can choose bipolar II.

Faizi

MKFaizi

Post by MKFaizi » Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:24 pm

Your perception of my comments is your perception, and in your case you sell them short
Well, your comments were on the level of Mickey Rooney or Mr. Rogers or Barney.

I loved Mr. Rogers. I began to love Barney after my kids started to abuse him.

But damned if I want Barney or Mr. Rogers giving me philosophical advice.

It's a beautiful goddamned day in the motherfucking 'hood, asshole.

Faizi

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Post by avidaloca » Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:03 pm

People cannot choose to be bipolar I but they can choose bipolar II.
Reminds me of when someone told me that (non-clinical) depression is self-indulgence.

MKFaizi

Post by MKFaizi » Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:24 pm

Sometimes, circumstantial depression is self indulgence but not often. It is usually related to death or divorce or loss of job.

The difference between Bipolar I and II is that I is really nuts. Very painful and out of control. A truly manic episode is painful to watch.

Bipolar II is depression. Clinical depression -- not necessarily precipitated by death or divorce or any other circumstance. No painful mood swings.

A bipolar I person goes many days without sleep. He becomes a blathering idiot. One woman pierced herself all over her body in a matter of minutes.

I do not believe in Bipolar II more than I believe in fibromyalgia.

Both are bullshit diagnoses. Fibromyalgia is medically unrecognized Systemic Lupus or MS.

Bipolar II is depression made trendy.

Faizi

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Jason
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Post by Jason » Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:02 pm

MKFaizi wrote:Bitch,
I'm not trying to offend or insult you, I'm trying to ask questions which might give you some insight on yourself. Maybe it won't, maybe I'm wrong, maybe my questions are stupid, but I'm not trying to talk down to you or tell you I know more about you than you do yourself.
MKFaizi wrote: No, it was a big thing for me. I am not here whimpering and seeking support nor do I think I have gotten any support -- whatever that is.

I answered the questions asked of me.
Your first post, which was the the one I quoted and was questioning, was the initial post on this thread - you wrote it without anyone prompting you with a question. You knew that people would read it, and you knew that people were likely to respond. What did you hope to occur by posting it?
MKFaizi wrote: Could be this is a tender subject for you because you still live with your parents.
It could be I suppose, but I honestly cannot perceive or feel any reaction in myself to this subject which would suggest that is the case. So either this subject is not effecting me in that way, or I am so completely ignorant/deluded/defensive and out of touch with that part of myself that I don't know that it exists. That's not to say I don't have some very real and strong issues surrounding the subject of still living with my parents, just that I don't perceive them being ignited by this particular subject.
MKFaizi wrote: What is the nature of your attachments, Jason?
Faizi
In general? Or specifically the attachments that cause me to continue living with my parents?

In general the nature of my attachments is probably the same as anyone elses I suppose. My attachments are created from biology, desire, fear, habit. A desire for comfort, a need for hope, a fear of being alone, a fear of dying or not existing, a desire for order, a fear of pain, a desire for pleasure, a fear of loss, a desire for greatness.

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Post by avidaloca » Sat Dec 31, 2005 10:50 am

Marsha

Talk about US isolationism, even ABC News doesn't know the difference between Australia and Austria.


Aussies Pull Art Depicting Queen, Leaders

Embarrassed Australians Pull Art Project Depicting Queen, Blair, Bush Engaged in a Sexual Act
By GEORGE JAHN
The Associated Press

VIENNA, Austria - Her Majesty would not have been amused. Neither would President Bush or his French counterpart, Jacques Chirac, over a Vienna-wide art project depicting them naked and engaged in a sexual act with British Queen Elizabeth II.

The work of "euroPART," an independent artists' group, the scenes being displayed on electronic billboards across the Austrian capital were also embarrassing for the government just days before the country assumes the European Union's rotating presidency Sunday.

Austrian media reported that the offending images were yanked Wednesday just a day after they started flashing at motorists on personal orders of Chancellor Wolfgang Schuessel. A woman answering the telephone at the chancellor's public information department who refused to identify herself said she could not confirm the report.

Leading opposition party figures suggested Schuessel was at least indirectly responsible, saying the group had received about $1.2 million in government subsidies.

Schuessel spokeswoman Heidi Glueck was quoted by the Austria Press Agency as saying the chancellor had been "unaware" of the subject matter being displayed.


Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Copyright © 2005 ABC News Internet Ventures

MKFaizi

Post by MKFaizi » Sun Jan 01, 2006 11:13 am

I'm not trying to offend or insult you, I'm trying to ask questions which might give you some insight on yourself. Maybe it won't, maybe I'm wrong, maybe my questions are stupid, but I'm not trying to talk down to you or tell you I know more about you than you do yourself.
God, you are such a drama queen. I never thought that you were trying to insult me or offend me. Neither did I think that you would think that I was trying to insult or offend you.

I mean, damn. Sensitive, aren't we? My son or daughter would think nothing of me addressing either of them as Bitch.
Your first post, which was the the one I quoted and was questioning, was the initial post on this thread - you wrote it without anyone prompting you with a question. You knew that people would read it, and you knew that people were likely to respond. What did you hope to occur by posting it?
I was interested in a discussion of the falling away of attachments. Now, I feel like I am on trial. "What did you hope and when did you hope it?"

I am not very good at defending myself. I need a lawyer.

Recently, Dave Hodges posted here about his girlfriend leaving. I took that as a post about the shedding of attachment. I did not take it as Dave Hodges looking for support from the forum. That idea was never broached on Dave's thread. So I wonder why it is broached here.

Jason, I was attempting to discuss the how and why attachments are shed. I thought it might be a somewhat interesting topic. That's what I get for thinking, I reckon. Dave Hodges can post a thread about his girlfriend leaving but, when Marsha Faizi posts a thread about the shedding of attachment, it's got to be because I am seeking support from the forum.

What a load of shit and I am absolutely disgusted by it. What a double standard. It is all right for one with a penis to post about the shedding of attachment but, when one without a penis does the same, it is because "she" is seeking support.

How womanish. How shamelessly, obsequiously, flowy, lacey, pinkishly womanly of you. What a shameless cunt you are.

I thought better of you.
It could be I suppose, but I honestly cannot perceive or feel any reaction in myself to this subject which would suggest that is the case. So either this subject is not effecting me in that way, or I am so completely ignorant/deluded/defensive and out of touch with that part of myself that I don't know that it exists. That's not to say I don't have some very real and strong issues surrounding the subject of still living with my parents, just that I don't perceive them being ignited by this particular subject.
Naturally, you can't perceive or feel the very thing that I pointed out. Scares hell out of you. What would you do without your parents? You live very comfortably. You do not have to pay for electricity or heat or telephone service. You do not have to cook. You have a nice bed. You are very well off. Nice suburban neighborhood. Internet access.

The very last thing that you could want to discuss is the letting go of family ties. That would point out the need for your independence -- something that you still do not want to face.

Better to be a drama queen cunt and imply that I came here seeking emotional support from the forum. Easy target since I am female.

There was nothing emotional in my post. I saw the falling away and wrote about it.
In general the nature of my attachments is probably the same as anyone elses I suppose. My attachments are created from biology, desire, fear, habit. A desire for comfort, a need for hope, a fear of being alone, a fear of dying or not existing, a desire for order, a fear of pain, a desire for pleasure, a fear of loss, a desire for greatness.
I yet desire to breathe and live -- most of the time. I am not attached to hope -- that's a fallacy. I do not fear loss. My idea of comfort is relatively minimal -- I do like electricity and running water. I have no desire for pleasure. I have little fear of pain -- because physical pain is inevitable. I have no fear of being alone. I welcome that -- part of the gist of my original post. I have no desire for greatness. No fear of death or not existing.

Who is seeking support -- you or me?

Faizi

MKFaizi

Post by MKFaizi » Sun Jan 01, 2006 11:17 am

Loco,

Well, they meant "Aussies" like Austrians -- not Australians.

Why are you telling me this? I am not responsible for American ignorance.

Are you responsible for Australian ignorance?

Faizi

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Post by avidaloca » Sun Jan 01, 2006 1:48 pm

I guess you didn't read the line:

Embarrassed Australians Pull Art Project Depicting Queen, Blair, Bush Engaged in a Sexual Act

I mentioned this as a follow-up to what you were saying about America isolating itself further under Bush.

I don't think you are an ignorant American. That type of American often has had little to do with other countries and peoples, which is not the case with you.

I don't have much to do with ignorant Australian people because they bore me. I ignore them.

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Jason
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Post by Jason » Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:16 am

Marsha, I actually wrote a very long reply to your last post. Then I deleted it. I realized that it is not worth my while to answer. It will just give you more fuel. In these matters you seem beyond self reflection, so I am wasting my breath. You will just continue to attack instead of examine. Despite myself, my ego won't let me end without debunking two things. I do pay for all my living expenses, including, but not only, food, electricty, gas and rent. And that you think that I am targetting you because you are a female is so way off that it makes you look paranoid and hysterical. I give up, I will not try again. Fire away.
Last edited by Jason on Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by avidaloca » Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:30 am

I guess that's why they say "don't add fuel to a fire".

I would say every female thinks they are being targeted for being female when in fact the guy targeting them is not thinking that. He's thinking "get over this or that" and she's thinking "that's me, I'm a woman". Therefore, she perceives it as targeting based on gender, while he sees it as targeting based on character.

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Attachments and kids

Post by DHodges » Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:54 pm

MKFaizi wrote:I am not very good at defending myself. I need a lawyer.
There is no need to defend anything.
Recently, Dave Hodges posted here about his girlfriend leaving. I took that as a post about the shedding of attachment. I did not take it as Dave Hodges looking for support from the forum. That idea was never broached on Dave's thread. So I wonder why it is broached here.
That's what I thought reading your posts on this - that it was similar. As you say, I was not looking for support, but this forum is about the only place where I could talk about it without the reaction being along the lines of "What a shame! Are you dating again yet?"

One big difference for me is not having the kids around. The world is different with kids around. With the kids around, everything is on a basic level - how do the kids see this, how can I explain that, what effect is this having on their development.

I imagine that would be a larger effect for a mother.
The separation is just a rather natural and expected thing.
That's what I'm finding. It wasn't about deliberately setting out to get rid of attachments; it was about an attachment no longer having a place to stick on my end, and so falling off.

For myself, I know I am still attached to music. I still enjoy it, and I still spend a lot of time on it. It's a large part of what I do and who I am. I can see that at some future time, that too will fall away. But there's no need to rush it. It will happen when it happens.

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