Scroogin'

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DHodges
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Scroogin'

Post by DHodges » Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:00 am

I'm having a serious attack of the Scroogies. For some reason, the whole Christmas thing is seeming especially pointless and bullshit this year.

I'm having trouble with the idea of sending, or giving, presents, even (or maybe especially) to the people who have already sent them to me; even the presents that have been sitting in the closet for several months, ready to go. It seems incredibly presumptuous. It seems like it would be much more of a favor to not send people stuff; they've certainly got enough crap already without me adding to the pile.

Is there anything about Christmas, and exchanging gifts, that isn't bullshit? The only reasons I can come up with for participating in the whole thing are completely egotistical, or completely conformist; that's just what's done. Stroke each other's egos; acknowledge each other's existence.

Well, I don't really give a shit if people think I'm a Scrooge. I guess I am, anyway. The whole Christmas thing reeks.

Really, the only reason I can think of for me to send presents is the idea that my family might think I was depressed (over the whole girlfriend moving out thing), and that would cause them unnecessary concern.

More cookies, more cake, more fudge. More, more, more. Sending presents to Americans - yeah, that's a good idea.

Maybe I should just send some cards... From this site...

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Dan Rowden
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Re: Scroogin'

Post by Dan Rowden » Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:24 am

Well, that site's far too crass to be funny, but regarding your "dilemma": what's more important to you, not wanting to be seen as scroogie and non-conformist or being sane?

Xmas, like Xianity, symbolises all that is wrong with humanity. Why would a remotely sane person want to have anything at all to do with it?


Dan Rowden

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Jason
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Re: Scroogin'

Post by Jason » Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:27 pm

DHodges wrote:
I'm having trouble with the idea of sending, or giving, presents, even (or maybe especially) to the people who have already sent them to me; even the presents that have been sitting in the closet for several months, ready to go.
You could accept the gifts yourself but don't give any back - you gain the gifts, you keep your money and you send a message.
DHodges wrote: It seems incredibly presumptuous.
When many people give a present there is also a veiled threat that they expect you to give them something back in return or else.

As Celia Green puts it: "If you stand up to the human race you lose something called their "goodwill"; if you kowtow to them you gain . . . their permission to continue kowtowing."



DHodges wrote: Really, the only reason I can think of for me to send presents is the idea that my family might think I was depressed (over the whole girlfriend moving out thing), and that would cause them unnecessary concern.
Well obviously the issue is what do you value more: your families concerns or your own values against the BS of Christmas. More generally how far are you willing to let your family shape your life in a way that is contrary to your more philosophical values?

As you would know, stepping too far away from societies unpoken rules and expectations can be dangerous and damaging to the individual. It is not a path that should be chosen lightly.

--

By coincidence I just saw a little interview on the "Art of Regifting" on TV where they talked about the rules of regifting. It's interesting to me that a lot of people are capable of analyzing the underlying rules of the rituals society engages in, but most will not try to challenge or question the value of the rituals. Their analysis is actually done to enable them to follow the rules more closely, and possibly try to find ways around the less enjoyed parts while still appearing to follow the rules.

It reminds of Seinfeld, a lot fo his comedy is about pointing out the stupidity and falseness of social rituals, but rarely is it about challenging them. It is about sharing our stupidity, laughing at our stupidity in following these rituals. I suppose self-interest suggests that following knowingly stupid rituals is in the long run more beneficial than attempting to get rid of the rituals and act more in accordance with reason.

The problem is: I know these rituals are stupid, everyone else knows they are stupid, maybe I could stop this stupidity and instead act more reasonably. But everyone else is going to keep following these rituals, so unless they all agree to change to be more reasonable at the same time that I do, I will ultimately be worse off. So I will keep following these stupid rituals.

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Blair
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Post by Blair » Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:58 pm

Bah Humbug forever.

LooF
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Post by LooF » Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:32 pm

normal people think its nice to feel that others care for you

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DHodges
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Re: Scroogin'

Post by DHodges » Sat Dec 24, 2005 12:16 am

drowden wrote:Xmas, like Xianity, symbolises all that is wrong with humanity. Why would a remotely sane person want to have anything at all to do with it?
Well, yeah, I agree. Maybe it's just my ongoing problem of being too polite. It's just that not sending gifts is rude. (It's made extra-rude by the fact that my parents are Christian ministers.)

I just need to get over that!
Well, that site's far too crass to be funny,
I often enjoy humor that is completely crass and rude. Probably related to the politeness thing.
Jason wrote:As you would know, stepping too far away from societies unpoken rules and expectations can be dangerous and damaging to the individual. It is not a path that should be chosen lightly.
It's far too late fore me to step off that path, it's just a matter of how quickly and willingly I go down it.

I am getting rid of various attachments and relationships. Or, rather, they are falling away from me; they no longer "stick". But I am trying to do that in an orderly fashion, with a minimum of damage.

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DHodges
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Being normal

Post by DHodges » Sat Dec 24, 2005 12:17 am

LooF wrote:normal people think its nice to feel that others care for you
Yes, they do.

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David Quinn
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Post by David Quinn » Sat Dec 24, 2005 8:16 am

Normal people, through their insatiable craving for approval, are rapidly destroying the environment and sending the planet down the gurgler.

The celebration of Christmas = the destruction of earth.

No wonder it is often said around Christmas time: "Remember the Saviour"!

-

avidaloca
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The cost of Christmas

Post by avidaloca » Sat Dec 24, 2005 9:19 am

Normal people, through their insatiable craving for approval, are rapidly destroying the environment and sending the planet down the gurgler.
I just read an article (see end of post) that said more than half of all Christmas presents will get thrown out. And the cost of Christmas is borne mainly by the environment:

CHRISTMAS is damaging the environment, according to a report by the Australian Conservation Foundation.

The report, The Hidden Cost of Christmas, calculated the environmental impact of spending on books, clothes, alcohol, electrical appliances and lollies during the festive season.
Every dollar Australians spend on new clothes as gifts consumes 20 litres of water and requires 3.4sq m of land in the manufacturing process, it says.

Last Christmas, Australians spent $1.5 billion on clothes, which required more than half a million hectares of land to produce, it said.

Water that would fill about 42,000 Olympic-sized swimming pools was used in the production of Christmas drinks last December – most was used to grow barley for beer and grapes for wine.

"If your bank account is straining under the pressure of Christmas shopping, spare a thought for our environment," Don Henry, the foundation's executive director, said.

"It's paying for our Christmas presents with water, land, air and resources. These costs are hidden in the products we buy."
The report says that gifts such as DVD players and coffee makers generated 780,000 tonnes of greenhouse pollution, even before they were unwrapped and used. A third was due to fuel consumption during production.

Even a box of $30 chocolates or lollies this Christmas, would consume 20kg of natural materials and 940 litres of water.

"We can all tread more lightly on the earth this Christmas by eating, drinking and giving gifts in moderation, and by giving gifts with a low environmental cost, such as vouchers for services, tickets to entertainment, memberships to gyms, museums or sports clubs, and donations to charities," Mr Henry said.

You shouldn't have ... really
By Elizabeth Gosch
December 16, 2005


Gee, thanks ... unwanted presents seem to be the norm. AUSTRALIANS are wasting as much as $250 each on Christmas presents their friends and family don't want.

The nation's Christmas budget is expected to reach $14 billion this year with most Australians spending about $500 on presents.
And the Australia Institute has found more than half of those presents will probably end up in the rubbish bin.

A Newspoll survey of 1200 people shows more than 50 per cent of people receive unwanted Christmas presents each year and 21 per cent give presents because they feel they have to.

"The results of the survey confirm widely-held suspicions that many presents go straight from the Christmas tree to the tip," research fellow Emma Rush said.

"Op shops and recycling facilities report sharp increases in donated goods immediately after Christmas."

Australians from richer households are the most likely to receive unwanted Christmas presents. But they also end up giving presents to people they don't want to.
Sixty-eight per cent of people from households with incomes over $70,000 receive unwanted presents, compared with 38 per cent of people from households with incomes less than $30,000.

"As people get richer, they usually spend more on Christmas presents, but it appears they become less discerning about the presents they give and to whom they give them," Ms Rush said.

"This trend is likely to be due to the effects of income on Christmas expenditure. At lower income levels, people have less money to spend on presents and are therefore likely to be more selective when it comes to gift-giving."

Young people are more likely to feel pressure to give gifts than older people - 35 per cent of 18 to 24-year-olds compared with just 13 per cent of people over 50.

Across the country, people in NSW are most likely to give presents because they feel obliged to but South Australians don't succumb to the pressure.

The Australia Institute also found almost three-quarters of Australians would be happy to accept a gift given to a charity on their behalf instead of a present. Men were less comfortable with this idea, with just 63 per cent saying they would be happy to unwrap a charity donation compared with 82 per cent of women.

"Our research indicates that one solution to the problem of wasteful consumption on Christmas presents is to encourage people to make donations instead of giving presents," research fellow Andrew Macintosh said.

"This would reduce waste and help charities to meet real needs, and would do so in a way that doesn't lessen any of the enjoyment of the festive season."

A recent Sensis consumer survey found women buy more Christmas presents than men, with an average of 12 gifts for the girls and 10 for the boys.

MKFaizi

Post by MKFaizi » Sat Dec 24, 2005 10:57 am

Personally, I like to give presents. Unfortunately, I do not have any money. If I did, I would give gifts of cash to lots of people.

For instance, I could send twenty five thousand dollars or so to David Quinn. Another twenty five to Dan Rowden. Some for Jason and Leyla and Shardrol and so on. Even Kevin. Matt Gregory. David Hodges. Some for a few people here in town.

It would not make you rich but wouldn't that extra cash come in handy? Lessen some difficulty here or there?

I would do it just for fun. Maybe I would do it anonymously so that there could be no doubt about strings attached or any obligation.

As for Christmas, it does not bother me much anymore. It used to get on my nerves. Now, I do not see it as any worse than any other time of the year. Things are no suckier in December than they are in June or whatever month. Yes, everyone gets into an idiotic frenzy around Christmas but it has come to remind me of the mating frenzy of salmon or something. Bands of roving hyenas. Dog packs.

But humans are always like that -- just comes to a frenetic head in December -- kind of like a boil.

I am pretty detached from it. Just like I am more and more detached from the whole of worldly society.

Faizi

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Nick
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Re: Scroogin'

Post by Nick » Sat Dec 24, 2005 8:30 pm

I'm feeling especially annoyed by the holiday season this year too. Some of my friends and family sense it and they question me about it. As you might expect, they don't like my explanations.
It reminds of Seinfeld, a lot fo his comedy is about pointing out the stupidity and falseness of social rituals, but rarely is it about challenging them. It is about sharing our stupidity, laughing at our stupidity in following these rituals. I suppose self-interest suggests that following knowingly stupid rituals is in the long run more beneficial than attempting to get rid of the rituals and act more in accordance with reason.
Seems like that is what 90% of comedy on TV is. The TV station Comedy Central has multiple shows that do exactly what you described here. At first I laughed at these shows, but they are becoming more and more annoying. Comedian makes fun of "society/culture", audience laughs and so on. It's really sickening when you think enough about it.

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Leyla Shen
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Post by Leyla Shen » Sat Dec 24, 2005 9:28 pm

Yes, extra cash would definitely come in handy.

Firstly, I'd pay off a math tutoring debt acquired to ensure my kids do as well in this area as they possibly can. Good investment so far.

Of course, I'd have preferred it if they disposed of certain socio-political aspects of their curriculum and focussed on math and English, instead. Still can't forget an assignment my son brought home: modern sexuality with a socio-political rather than philosophical bent. Pop-psychology, ya know? Real personal questions.

He said to me, "I'm not doing it. This is none of their business."

He was absolutely right.

Since when do we grade children on sexual preference and attitudes toward marriage?

Merry Christmas.

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Jason
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Post by Jason » Sun Dec 25, 2005 11:35 pm

MKFaizi wrote:Personally, I like to give presents. Unfortunately, I do not have any money. If I did, I would give gifts of cash to lots of people.

For instance, I could send twenty five thousand dollars or so to David Quinn. Another twenty five to Dan Rowden. Some for Jason and Leyla and Shardrol and so on. Even Kevin. Matt Gregory. David Hodges. Some for a few people here in town.
I'm honored to be on your hypothetical gift list.

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Rhett
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Post by Rhett » Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:41 am

.
Jason wrote:I'm honored to be on your hypothetical gift list.
I'm honoured to not be on it. Marsha is having another bad bout of acceptance.

.

MKFaizi

Post by MKFaizi » Mon Dec 26, 2005 1:56 pm

Ass. I would give you the twenty five thousand, too, if I only had it to give. To everyone else here as well.

Faizi

MKFaizi

Post by MKFaizi » Mon Dec 26, 2005 2:32 pm

My daughter got a bad mark in fifth grade when she was asked to present a report on current events.

Her report was that Bill Clinton had sex with Monica Lewinski. Included original illustrations. She did this completely on her own.

She got a zero because it was deemed inappropriate. I was called for a conference but did not go.

Yet, at the time, the news of the sex scandal was all you heard or read in the news.

I knew then that Rock would never graduate high school. She got a GED.

Faizi

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Post by Sapka » Tue Dec 27, 2005 10:42 am

Her report was that Bill Clinton had sex with Monica Lewinski. Included original illustrations.
Original illustrations of what, dear Faizi? Do you mean illustrations of Clinton having sex with Monica?

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Post by Sapka » Tue Dec 27, 2005 11:14 am

Is there anything about Christmas, and exchanging gifts, that isn't bullshit?
Christmas is a market of feelings, but consider Juanita's words:

When gifts are all forgotten
And the wrapping thrown away
Let's give a heartfelt present
Of true feelings that will stay

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Post by LooF » Tue Dec 27, 2005 6:15 pm

your daughter is too funny

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Post by Leyla Shen » Tue Dec 27, 2005 7:32 pm

Marsha wrote:
Her report was that Bill Clinton had sex with Monica Lewinski. Included original illustrations. She did this completely on her own.


That's fantastic. Imagination and originality -- and in fifth grade, too.

You couldn't have come up with a more current affair if it hit you in the face dick first.

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Post by Kevin Solway » Tue Dec 27, 2005 8:32 pm

MKFaizi wrote:My daughter got a bad mark in fifth grade when she was asked to present a report on current events.

Her report was that Bill Clinton had sex with Monica Lewinski. Included original illustrations. She did this completely on her own.
Perhaps she was asked to do a report on a "current affair", and thought that meant an affair between a man and a woman.

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Post by avidaloca » Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:45 pm

I would give you the twenty five thousand, too, if I only had it to give. To everyone else here as well.
Matt Gregory beat you to the punch on that one - he gave AUD$700 (converted) each to Kevin and David at least once, right Matt?

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Post by Sapka » Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:02 am

Faizi's daughter was completely right. THAT was the number one "current affair" at the time, thanks to thousands of hungry journalists and religious idiots like "independent counsel" Ken Starr. The whole planet talked about the Oval office b*j*s in front of the kids.
Most schools are nests of bigotry and stupidity.
Don't worry Faizi.

MKFaizi

Post by MKFaizi » Sat Dec 31, 2005 12:58 pm

Good for Matt. He did not beat me to the punch. I don't have any punch. Presently, I am completely broke. I said, "IF." I don't. It's the thought that counts -- I reckon that should go on another thread.

Faizi

MKFaizi

Post by MKFaizi » Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:40 pm

Funny, Kevin. I will pass that on to Rock.

She got a big fat zero for that report. It did have illustrations of Monica and Bill but nothing very lewd. A picture of Bill saying, "I did not have sex with THAT woman."

I never thought of it as brilliant or original. She was simply doing a report on the biggest news story of the day. I could not believe they said it was inappropriate. It was all you heard or saw in the news then. It was idiotic. We knew the man was a 'ho when we elected him. Just like we knew George Bush was a war monger when we elected him -- TWICE.

I never thought Bill Clinton was that good until Bush came to office. The 'ho started looking pretty good.

Anyway, Rock is still a hoot at seventeen. Not a thinker. She is a doer. Outspoken. Very tough. Loves the mountains. A redneck woman.

She also inherited the physical beauty of her Pakistani aunts. But not the grace. She inherited my clumsiness.

She is not a scholar but she is individual. I was never a very good mother but I did allow for that. In fact, I insisted on it. My son is also like that. He has his own agenda.

But Rock can still beat him in wrestling. Pretty funny to watch. Buster is the only boy who will still wrestle her -- Ellie Mae Faizi.

Faizi

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