Unusual site
- Dan Rowden
- Posts: 5739
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 8:03 pm
- Contact:
Unusual site
Found this rather strange site:
Actual Freedom
Going through the rather large "glossary" page makes for mildly interesting reading.
Dan Rowden
Actual Freedom
Going through the rather large "glossary" page makes for mildly interesting reading.
Dan Rowden
For me it is more than mildly interesting. It actually seems to encompass much of the way I view things. Just a quick glance tells me that they are more advanced than you blokes with your delusions of granduer.
From the site:
"delusions of grandeur –– an exaggerated estimation of one’s own status or personality; megalomania. Oxford Dictionary
The Altered State of Consciousness commonly known as Enlightenment is a classic delusion of grandeur for how exaggerated an estimation of one’s own personality can there be than to consider oneself to be God or at One with God. In a monotheist society such an extreme delusion would be regarded as a severe case of mental illness, but in the current New Dark Age with the fashion for Eastern Spiritual belief this delusion of grandeur is coveted and regarded in the highest esteem. Sustained by passionate belief to the point of conviction, the Glamour, Glory and Glitz of not only becoming God, but having others worship you as a God, is a mightily seductive lure for the merely mortal ‘self’.
The greatest delusion of grandeur is the transition from ‘self’ to ‘Self’, from mundane mortality to Divine Immortality.
From the site:
"delusions of grandeur –– an exaggerated estimation of one’s own status or personality; megalomania. Oxford Dictionary
The Altered State of Consciousness commonly known as Enlightenment is a classic delusion of grandeur for how exaggerated an estimation of one’s own personality can there be than to consider oneself to be God or at One with God. In a monotheist society such an extreme delusion would be regarded as a severe case of mental illness, but in the current New Dark Age with the fashion for Eastern Spiritual belief this delusion of grandeur is coveted and regarded in the highest esteem. Sustained by passionate belief to the point of conviction, the Glamour, Glory and Glitz of not only becoming God, but having others worship you as a God, is a mightily seductive lure for the merely mortal ‘self’.
The greatest delusion of grandeur is the transition from ‘self’ to ‘Self’, from mundane mortality to Divine Immortality.
- David Quinn
- Posts: 5708
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 6:56 am
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
Richard from that site used to write to Genius Forum a few years ago, preaching the same message.
It seems he still likes to boast that he is beyond enlightenment, that he has refuted the wisdom of past spiritual teachers and all the rest of it. Yet when you actually look at what he does preach, it is essentially identical to the teachings of the past sages. So he hasn't really rejected enlightenment at all; he's only rejected certain deluded conceptions of enlightenment - e.g. the deluded notion that enligtenment is an altered state of consciousness.
It all smacks of desperation to me. A desperation to stand out from the crowd, to be be noticed. He is very similar to UG Krishnamurti in that regard. Like UG, he pretends to be different, when he isn't really.
-
It seems he still likes to boast that he is beyond enlightenment, that he has refuted the wisdom of past spiritual teachers and all the rest of it. Yet when you actually look at what he does preach, it is essentially identical to the teachings of the past sages. So he hasn't really rejected enlightenment at all; he's only rejected certain deluded conceptions of enlightenment - e.g. the deluded notion that enligtenment is an altered state of consciousness.
It all smacks of desperation to me. A desperation to stand out from the crowd, to be be noticed. He is very similar to UG Krishnamurti in that regard. Like UG, he pretends to be different, when he isn't really.
-
- David Quinn
- Posts: 5708
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 6:56 am
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
Actually, Richard's understanding of things is quite shallow. For example, here is his comment on a passage by Huang Po:
He seems to have no idea what Huang Po is refering to here. His response is superficial and completely misses the point. All he does is assert his own belief ("which is the human brain in action in the human skull") into the proceedings without any context, and for no good reason. He thinks, "Well, Huang Po used the word 'mind', therefore it's time to drag out my own allergic reaction to that word."
Yes, I remember now that he used to constantly rail against the word 'mind' and thought that anyone who employed it in their speech was automatically deluded on the spot. He had, and still has, the naive view that people who use the word "mind", for whatever purpose, were deluded spiritualists by default, and that the word should rejected from the language altogether.
Yes, I remember now - he was a real idiot.
-
[Edited for spelling - DQ]
HUANG PO: All Buddhas and all ordinary beings are nothing but the one mind. This mind is beginningless and endless, unborn and indestructible. It has no colour or shape, neither exists nor doesn’t exist, isn’t old or new, long or short, large or small, since it transcends all measures, limits, names, and comparisons. (...) This pure mind, which is the source of all things, shines forever with the radiance of its own perfection. (...) Above, below, and all around you, all things spontaneously exist, because there is nowhere outside the Buddha mind’.
RICHARD: : ‘(...) all experiencing is awareness of what is happening whilst it is happening; the mind, *which is the human brain in action in the human skull*, has this amazing capacity to be, not only aware, but aware of being aware at the same time (a simultaneity which is truly wondrous in itself).
And it is where this awareness of being aware is unmediated (apperceptive awareness) that this universe knows itself’.
In other words, when this flesh and blood body dies this mind also ceases to operate.
He seems to have no idea what Huang Po is refering to here. His response is superficial and completely misses the point. All he does is assert his own belief ("which is the human brain in action in the human skull") into the proceedings without any context, and for no good reason. He thinks, "Well, Huang Po used the word 'mind', therefore it's time to drag out my own allergic reaction to that word."
Yes, I remember now that he used to constantly rail against the word 'mind' and thought that anyone who employed it in their speech was automatically deluded on the spot. He had, and still has, the naive view that people who use the word "mind", for whatever purpose, were deluded spiritualists by default, and that the word should rejected from the language altogether.
Yes, I remember now - he was a real idiot.
-
[Edited for spelling - DQ]
Last edited by David Quinn on Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
He does hit on some of the same points as Huang Po.
Just not with the same flow.
Gee, aren't I nifty?
--
He inserts what he inserts, not for superficial meandering, but for the reader dissatisfied with esoteric, pre-conceived wish-wash. His word choice, and style, aren't superb; but I suppose that's what results when you attempt to take on the likes of Huang Po.
Just not with the same flow.
Gee, aren't I nifty?
--
He inserts what he inserts, not for superficial meandering, but for the reader dissatisfied with esoteric, pre-conceived wish-wash. His word choice, and style, aren't superb; but I suppose that's what results when you attempt to take on the likes of Huang Po.
Re: Unusual site
What I found interesting about that site is the goal, stated many times throughout: to become "happy and harmless". Is that the highest goal for mankind? To be sitting on the couch, watching TV, on Valium, with a big dopey grin? I guess there's no problem so large that it can't be solved with a lobotomy.drowden wrote:Actual Freedom
Then there's this view of enlightenment:
- Clearly at odds with the view of enlightenment as perfect clarity and sanity, perfect rationality, ridding one's self of delusions.The Enlightened Ones become kings of the psychic world, their powers derived from the surrender and unquestioning devotion of their disciples. In actuality, enlightenment is a massive delusion wherein one is convinced one is God or ‘at one’ with God.
...
those who have deliberately inflicted this psychic aberration or Altered State of Consciousness on themselves will be clearly seen as narcissistic megalomaniacs.
You got to watch out who writes what. A lot of those words written on the site Dan gave aren't written by Richard himself, but rather by his affiliates who are followers and aren't "actually free" the way Richard is.
For Richard's site, check out:
http://actualfreedom.com.au/richard/default.htm
That is his site and every word is his.
Ha Ha... and there is some correspondence between him and the Genius Forum people back many years ago. I think David Quinn is respondent No. 4. That you, David?
http://actualfreedom.com.au/richard/lis ... /index.htm
For Richard's site, check out:
http://actualfreedom.com.au/richard/default.htm
That is his site and every word is his.
Ha Ha... and there is some correspondence between him and the Genius Forum people back many years ago. I think David Quinn is respondent No. 4. That you, David?
http://actualfreedom.com.au/richard/lis ... /index.htm
- David Quinn
- Posts: 5708
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 6:56 am
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
Yes, I'm No. 4.
(Couldn't he at least have retained my name? I feel like I'm a Prisoner on a mysterious island somewhere.)
It is a painful conversation, but it does show that Richard is living in a dreamworld. The lack of flexibility in his thought-processes, his inability to adapt to different meanings of words and to understand context, his propensity to engage in semantic nit-picking and hide behind wordy sophistry, and above all, his overbearing dullness, all point to a lack of life in his mind.
I also like the way he became increasingly flustered as the conversation wore on, not a good sign for someone who is supposed to be beyond all feelings and emotions.
Are you buddies with this fellow, Ras?
-
(Couldn't he at least have retained my name? I feel like I'm a Prisoner on a mysterious island somewhere.)
It is a painful conversation, but it does show that Richard is living in a dreamworld. The lack of flexibility in his thought-processes, his inability to adapt to different meanings of words and to understand context, his propensity to engage in semantic nit-picking and hide behind wordy sophistry, and above all, his overbearing dullness, all point to a lack of life in his mind.
I also like the way he became increasingly flustered as the conversation wore on, not a good sign for someone who is supposed to be beyond all feelings and emotions.
Are you buddies with this fellow, Ras?
-
- David Quinn
- Posts: 5708
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 6:56 am
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
His wife, apparently, just happens to be perfect and without ego as well:
Now that's what I call luck!
Anyway, there's not much point going on with this. I think there is some genuine mental illness there.
-
That's a happy coincidence. Even though no one before in all of human history is supposed to have attained this state of perfection which is beyond spirituality and enlightenment - not even Lao Tzu, Hakuin, Diogenes and Buddha - it just so happens that Richard was able to meet a woman in his local area who's reached it.RESPONDENT [No.6]: You don’t make it clear whether ‘my companion’ refers to the Infinity of Nature (God) or an individual human being. I will assume you mean the latter. In that case I will ask you whether your ‘companion’ has exactly the same philosophical realisation and ambition as yourself? And would they mind if you were equally ‘intimate’ with lots of other people at the same time?
RICHARD: My companion could not possibly be ‘the Infinity of Nature (God)’, as any God or Goddess is clearly nothing but a psychic projection of the ‘self’. I experience – and therefore acknowledge – the only infinity that there is: the infinity of this physical universe that is what we are all tangibly made up of. This flesh and blood body is the same corporeal stuff, simply in a different formulation, as the stuff of the stars and planets – some people mistakenly think that the universe is only out in space – it is as much this body and this room as anything else or anywhere but here. We are not constructed of some material from ‘outside’ of the universe by some unknowable god and put ‘in here’ for some inscrutable purpose. We are, literally, this infinite universe ... and there is no outside to infinity.
RESPONDENT: Agreed.
RICHARD: So yes, you assume correctly. My companion is a living, breathing, human being.
RESPONDENT: I always thought a ‘companion’ was someone who keeps you company in old age when you have lost all dignity and are on your last legs, and comforts you that you’re not a waste of space when all reason says you are.
RICHARD: As my companion and I are legally married I could have written ‘my wife’ ... only to be accused of being chauvinistic or patriarchal or possessive or old-fashioned or whatever. She refers to me as ‘my partner’ ... is that any better? I hereby submit a list of appellations for your consideration and approval ... please advise me as to which you find appropriate: My wife, My spouse, My partner, My colleague, My friend, My associate, My mate, My chum, My buddy, My pal, My supporter, My collaborator, My coadjutor, My peer, My acquaintance, My amigo, My playmate, My familiar, My compeer, My confidant, My crony, My accomplice, My comrade, My ally, My cohort, My confrere, My consort, My counterpart, My sidekick, My bosom buddy, My intimate, My helpmeet, My compatriot, My confederate, My concubine, My mistress, My courtesan, My paramour, My accessory, My woman, My inamorata, My girl friend, My chick, My old lady ... or if we want to degenerate entirely and go ocker: The ball and chain, The trouble and strife, The cheese and kisses, The old dear, The old chook ... and so on.
Personally, I prefer ‘my companion’.
*
RICHARD: And, yes, she has exactly the same realisation and ambition, which is the primary reason that we are living together.
RESPONDENT: My word! Then she is either a very exceptional woman or you are a common fraud.
Now that's what I call luck!
Anyway, there's not much point going on with this. I think there is some genuine mental illness there.
-
David:
As far as he can tell, he is the only one so far who is free from the human condition. His ex-wife even explains what her situation was at the time (just a few paragraphs below the quote you gave).
His ex-wife:
Richard:
http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/richard ... firene.htm
Nah, I have had some talks with him on his mailing list a few times though. He's a nice fellow. I have done extensive reading of his site so I know a lot about him.Are you buddies with this fellow, Ras?
No, she was never actually free the way Richard is.And, yes, she has exactly the same realisation and ambition, which is the primary reason that we are living together.
As far as he can tell, he is the only one so far who is free from the human condition. His ex-wife even explains what her situation was at the time (just a few paragraphs below the quote you gave).
His ex-wife:
She later broke up with him a few years ago and her attitude toward "actual freedom" changed completely.My way can best be described as a state wherein I have freed myself from the Human Constitution. It is not to be confused with actual freedom, which only my partner can speak knowledgeably of, where one is freed from the Human Condition – there is no self at all. In my freedom my daily state of being is comparable to the quality of the peak experience. A peak experience, which all people have had at some stage in their life, is that moment wherein literally everything – including oneself – is seen as being already complete and perfect as-it-is. I encountered my first of many such experiences when I was twenty three years old and was then quite mystified, for what was most outstanding was the absolute equality that pervaded everything. Although an utter purity and clarity prevailed, there was a total lack of any Religious Authority whatsoever. This had nothing to do with anything I had ever learned to be true! Instantly I knew without a shadow of a doubt: this is my destiny. Even though I did not know how to yet, I knew that I was going to manifest this state of being in my everyday life, as it was distinctly meant to be achieved here-on-earth. It would be attained by being me as-this-body and would be possible many years before I would die. Although the whole experience lasted for only as long as it took me to pass through an intersection by bicycle, one thing was made magnificently clear: I was standing in the way of my own freedom and my entire purview on life was invalid. Both I and my current understanding had to be eliminated for this destiny to be lived.
Richard:
Here is his ex-wife bashing Richard and his ideas:Yet my previous companion, as detailed in ‘Richard’s Journal’, did ‘really make a go of it’ for five years (for the first six years she was living with an enlightened being) and it was not until she fell under the influence of love that she could no longer stay on the wide and wondrous path to an actual freedom from the human condition ... which is one of the reasons why I warn of the only danger on the way (that one may inadvertently enter into an enlightened state of being instead).
I kid you not.
http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/richard ... firene.htm
- Dan Rowden
- Posts: 5739
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 8:03 pm
- Contact:
I actually don't remember Richard from either Genius Forum or Genius-l. I agree with David however that he is, in a lot of cases, attacking straw men. His characterisation of Enlightenment is extremely poor. I've subscribed to the Actual Freedom mailing list. Hopefully I'll last longer there than on Judi Rhodes'.
Judi is one of the current posters to Richard's list, btw.
It's a small world.
[Ah, just sifted through the old Genius-l archives. He was a subscriber before I started posting.
Dan Rowden
Judi is one of the current posters to Richard's list, btw.
It's a small world.
[Ah, just sifted through the old Genius-l archives. He was a subscriber before I started posting.
Dan Rowden
- David Quinn
- Posts: 5708
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 6:56 am
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
His ex-wife seems a lot more sane. For example, she writes:
It also sounds ... emotional.
-
Blimey! And James reckons we suffer from delusions of grandeur!IRENE to Vineeto: Perhaps you could ask yourselves: Do I actually enjoy another person’s company as I had believed? Do I actually live peace if I find myself getting a kick out of the one-up-man ship I find myself engaged in since stepping onto this ‘wide and wondrous path of peace and harmony’. This was exactly the reason why I saw through Richard’s ‘peaceful’ living; it was (and is) expressed in glee for winning yet another argument, especially the one-up-man-ship he is so proud of having eliminated.
RICHARD: It was this paragraph that prompted me to write this response to your E-Mail to Vineeto and Peter ... I just found it irresistible. Firstly:
I am not ‘proud of having eliminated’ any one-up-man-ship at all, for I have not needed to do so ... my life is so infinitely superior to anyone else’s that I have met or read about.
It also sounds ... emotional.
I don't see Richard as being free at all. Rather, I see someone who suppresses his emotions with an iron will and whose rigid intellect violently blocks out ideas he doesn't understand or like. This can certainly create an illusion of being free, but that is all it is - an illusion. It is a freedom which arises when one forces oneself into a high level of unconsciousness.Ras: No, she was never actually free the way Richard is.
-
- David Quinn
- Posts: 5708
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 6:56 am
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
DQ:
That is interesting that you wrote that. Maybe this explains it:The lack of flexibility in his thought-processes, his inability to adapt to different meanings of words and to understand context, his propensity to engage in semantic nit-picking and hide behind wordy sophistry, and above all, his overbearing dullness, all point to a lack of life in his mind.
RICHARD: ... There is no psyche extant in this flesh and blood body (no ‘being’ whatsoever)
- David Quinn
- Posts: 5708
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 6:56 am
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
That isn't relevant, Ras. I agree with Richard that there is no "being" within the body. Nevertheless, there is thought, and Richard is mistaken in thinking that his freedom is anything other than a result of his becoming more suppressive and unconscious.
There is nothing wrong with using the word "mind". It is a useful word, even though there is no 'being' within the body, just as "weather" is a useful word, even though there is no 'being' within the atmosphere. To react to the very use of these words in such a kneejerk manner is insane.
-
[Edited for grammer - DQ]
There is nothing wrong with using the word "mind". It is a useful word, even though there is no 'being' within the body, just as "weather" is a useful word, even though there is no 'being' within the atmosphere. To react to the very use of these words in such a kneejerk manner is insane.
-
[Edited for grammer - DQ]
Last edited by David Quinn on Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Since I’ve read a bit more than when I first posted, I can see he is a bit delusional. I jsut tend to get excited about finding that someone else feels the same way about certain things as me – it gives me hope that I will find bits and prices of wisdom that I hadn’t thought of or come across before. The quality of some of his responses to your questions in that correspondence at times was not very good – he seemed to a bit too impatient and dismissive.
Basically, I really don’t believe one can be rid of ALL the instinctual self, which is the emotional self. It just does not compute that one could do this and still function. So I have to presume that he is kidding himself. Still I am certain I will find value elsewhere on his site.
... my life is so infinitely superior to anyone else’s that I have met or read about.
Blimey! And James reckons we suffer from delusions of grandeur!
As far as I am concerned you have said similar things before, though not to the same degree of arrogance as him – the difference is that you do not state you’re above everyone else that your read about (though you kind of do in that I’m sure you could find serious faults in all those geniuses in which a lot of history is available).
IRENE to Vineeto: Perhaps you could ask yourselves: Do I actually enjoy another person’s company as I had believed? Do I actually live peace if I find myself getting a kick out of the one-up-man ship I find myself engaged in since stepping onto this ‘wide and wondrous path of peace and harmony’. This was exactly the reason why I saw through Richard’s ‘peaceful’ living; it was (and is) expressed in glee for winning yet another argument, especially the one-up-man-ship he is so proud of having eliminated.
I have also seen this in you guys, although it is mostly pretty subtle. I can’t imagine you guys expressing glee at winning an argument, but I can see you being emotionally satisfied when someone agrees with something you have put some effort into communicating and dissatisfied when your efforts don’t work out.
The other stuff this women said above where she talks about her satori didn't read right to me. I think it was a partial reinvention of the past, false memories.
Basically, I really don’t believe one can be rid of ALL the instinctual self, which is the emotional self. It just does not compute that one could do this and still function. So I have to presume that he is kidding himself. Still I am certain I will find value elsewhere on his site.
... my life is so infinitely superior to anyone else’s that I have met or read about.
Blimey! And James reckons we suffer from delusions of grandeur!
As far as I am concerned you have said similar things before, though not to the same degree of arrogance as him – the difference is that you do not state you’re above everyone else that your read about (though you kind of do in that I’m sure you could find serious faults in all those geniuses in which a lot of history is available).
IRENE to Vineeto: Perhaps you could ask yourselves: Do I actually enjoy another person’s company as I had believed? Do I actually live peace if I find myself getting a kick out of the one-up-man ship I find myself engaged in since stepping onto this ‘wide and wondrous path of peace and harmony’. This was exactly the reason why I saw through Richard’s ‘peaceful’ living; it was (and is) expressed in glee for winning yet another argument, especially the one-up-man-ship he is so proud of having eliminated.
I have also seen this in you guys, although it is mostly pretty subtle. I can’t imagine you guys expressing glee at winning an argument, but I can see you being emotionally satisfied when someone agrees with something you have put some effort into communicating and dissatisfied when your efforts don’t work out.
The other stuff this women said above where she talks about her satori didn't read right to me. I think it was a partial reinvention of the past, false memories.
- Dan Rowden
- Posts: 5739
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 8:03 pm
- Contact:
Dan wrote: I've subscribed to the Actual Freedom mailing list. Hopefully I'll last longer there than on Judi Rhodes'.
David Quinn: Did you get booted off Judi's list? I couldn't see any of your posts on the Topica site.
I got unsubbed from Judi's list, yes. Hers was hosted by Yahoo Groups; Richard's is at Topica.
Dan Rowden
- David Quinn
- Posts: 5708
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 6:56 am
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
- Kevin Solway
- Posts: 2766
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 8:43 am
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
To me it sounds a lot like brow-beating.Ras866 wrote:Here is his ex-wife bashing Richard and his ideas: http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/richard ... firene.htm
There seems to be little concern for actually communicating something that will improve the minds of the readers, but rather it seems to be merely refuting objections as they arise - a bit like patching up a ship's hull for leaks. The main concern seems to be that his image and reputation is not tarnished.
