Dan,
Here it is. There may be grammatical errors because I did it in Microsoft Word.
I hear this so often it becomes tiresome after a while. Of course there's a path: it's called the path of the renunciation of delusion. It's the only path there is.
Like I said before, there is only a path people imagine and put themselves on. There’s no actual path.
The path necessarily begins with egotistical motives. Given that this is necessary and unavoidable, it means nothing to be critical of the fact. If one remains on the path then the ego is undermined naturally. If this does not happen, one is not on the path at all - or making no actual headway.
I’ve never seen or heard of a person with an undermined ego. In theory, I agree with you that thinking truthfully undermines the ego naturally.
Sure, but this is actually a remedial insight. And as it's being expressed here, a very incomplete one. There is no objective meaning to life, no meaning inherent in reality. However, there is meaning to life inasmuch as meaning is an artifact of consciousness and we therefore bring meaning to life. For some reason we tend to not accept subjective meaning as legitimate or real. It's usually because of a lingering attachment to objectivity as reality. A common delusion.
I agree with you. I thought it went without saying that we bring our own meaning to the meaninglessness.
Philosophy is not about striving for meaning outside of one's self. It's about striving for the truth of things, which includes the nature of meaning.
I know that.
Honestly, is that even supposed to mean something? For one thing, what has the philosophical path got to do with jumping through hoops or other people in any way? Other people's ideas can be stimulating, but at bottom it's all about our minds and our consciousness and thinking. Philosophy is an explicitly personal enterprise.
While that’s true, that’s not how people treat it often. It’s not how I treated it sometimes. At times it was about being challenged by DQ or you. While at the time I thought it was solely about myself, it wasn’t.
It should go without saying that when you say someone is unconscious (or some other demeaning thing) they’ll try to prove you wrong. That’s probably the reason why there are so many women here.
So until a person can stand on their own two feet, emotionally, their philosophy isn’t a personal enterprise but one of trying to fit in.
People will naturally challenge your wisdom if you speak dross.
Like I said, it’s laughable. Is it wise conduct to challenge the “dross†claims of every moron out there?
The core of what? And if you are not perfectly logical what makes you think you have attained everything?
Being perfectly logical, to the core (meaning completely) isn’t an attainment because it doesn’t exist, in my opinion.
So what? It's not actually an argument for anything. What percentage of the human population have you known? What do you know of the nature of consciousness or reality that shows you that this perfection is in principle impossible? Just one time I'd like to see such an argument because all this bald faced assertion stuff is tedious at best.
It’s what I know of human nature which makes me believe perfect enlightenment is impossible.
That's not an argument, it's a sentiment, and obviously one designed for the purpose of self-convincing.
I’ve admitted before that my belief is illogical.
I agree, that statement is just stupid. If certain delusions can be overcome it is a perfectly valid hypothesis that all delusions can be overcome. To argue otherwise you'd have to make a case for those that by definition cannot. Put up or shut up, as they say.
A hypothesis can be shown to be false. I obviously can’t show it to be false…but I can make a guess. That’s what we all have to do. The idea of perfect enlightenment becomes a leap of faith kind of thing.
Assuming that we can overcome all delusions just because we’ve overcome a couple is just as foolish as thinking we can’t.
Are you saying you want or need to be led? What on earth has the supposed flaws of other people got to do with your own personal path and attainments? You're speaking like a child whose papa let him down at some point.
It has nothing to do with me and everything about anyone who comes to this forum in search of understanding.
This shows you know nothing at all, and certainly nothing about psychology. And you have the temerity to speak of the delusions of grandeur of others.
Obviously any of us can speak of whatever we choose to. It may show to you that I know nothing about psychology, but it may not show that to someone else. And what is the truth of the matter, regardless of what people see of me?
People who are "perfectly fine" don't engage in philosophy at all. They most assuredly don't go looking for insight from others. And besides, deluded people are anything but perfectly fine.
1) I disagree. 2) I agree. 3) I agree.
This isn't even remotely close to the truth, but it's a sentiment that would likely win you votes in an election. People reason expediently and conveniently. Their reason is driven by motives far other than the valuing of reason or truth or sanity. It means nothing that people think rationality at times. Do you know the difference bewteen utilising reason and being a rational person?
I agree. My only point was that they possess the capacity.
I'm sorry, but this is indicative, again, of your complete lack of comprehension of how purpose and meaning and value manifest in the world. It also contains bucket loads of hypocrisy, but you don't see that, do you? When peaceful people try to change warlike people because of their differing values and purpose are they doing something wrong?
Do you think it’s hypocritical because I’m condemning you? The difference is that you claim to value wisdom, whereas a normal person doesn’t claim anything.
If a warlike person were to try and tell a warlike person to take up peacefulness, that would be hypocritical and someone should tell that person to take a bit of their own advice.
That isn't necessary (besides, you don't even believe in it).
I may not believe in it but I know what it is. Now about why it is necessary…
It is enough to understand reality. Purpose and value flows naturally from that and such things might involve attempting to wake people up.
Your purpose and value may have flowed naturally from an understanding of reality, but those things are still subject to delusion, and they may very well lead people down the wrong path.
It's not the wise people who actually change others, it's the others who change themselves. No-one can actually change who you are if you don't let it happen. This is truer with regard to philosophical thinking than anything else.
In the movie Collateral, a body falls on top of a taxi cab and bleeds all over the windshield. A man walks down into the alley where the cab was parked, and the taxi driver asks him “Did you kill this man?†The man replies, “No, the bullets and the fall killed him.â€
In other words…yeah right.
