Why women like abuse

[Ryan Rudolph]

Leyla wrote:

Ryan, for one, is besotted by it.

okay I’ll admit, I have learned from experience that one can study wisdom and mediate in a corner for eons, but it doesn’t change the loss of power man feels in the presence of a flirtatious attractive woman.

Solitude is the only solution for these rare gems. My mind is clear and free when I’m alone, but in the presence of an flirty sexually attractive women (like at university), suddenly the intense carnal appetite kicks in, there is an indescripable feeling of incompleteness, euphoria, intense love, she has the power to totally bewitch, book learning doesn’t change the biological instincts, they function as they always have. They function as they have for the last 50 00 years of evolutionary history. Perhaps man will be free from that response, but not today I’m afraid.

And the feelings persist for days, it takes days for her power to wear off. My being is totally clouded by her. She is there all day, during the night, and in the morning (in my mind)

Now this is an automatic biological response that cannot be prevented unless one stays in solitude and avoids these bewitching little fairies altogether.

I still cannot get over the intensity of her positivity when she speaks and how drastically it affects me every time. Subjectively I listen like a sucker, and the whole process starts.

This is further evidence that she is a metaphor for the absolute truth, for infinity.

There is the addictive thrill of losing control, and having her touch the mind. It is very similar to mystical experiences I’ve had in mediation where the infinite has touched the mind…

However when an angelic overly sexy women is the cause, the mind is clouded, not touched by clarity. A complete opposite dynamic.

Hey Diebert, another one of God’s jokes.

However, most women do not cause such a response, but the odd angelic beauty queen sends my mind for a loop every now and then...

[sue hindmarsh]

Ryan wrote:

I have a theory that internet pornography actually benefits mankind. This is true because men no longer need to live with women in order to satisfy their desires, and this has a cascade of positive effects for the entire society. It promotes solitude, the frequency of accident pregnancies decrease, individuals can develop unique fetishes that make it difficult for women to easily arouse men, this is positive because men have more control over when they ejaculate. The list goes on and on.

Over 70% of the internet is dedicated to porn. It’s in magazines and on billboards, adorned on clothing and plastered on the sides of buses. Pornographic images are all around us. Yet, as seen in the rising number of internet dating and singles groups, it doesn’t seem to quell most people’s desire to couple. It’s true that many people are leaving marriage and children to later on in their lives, but up until that time they aren’t living a celibate existence - far from it – they are either cohabiting with their lovers, or going from partner to partner, looking for “the one”.

And all this porn surrounding us also doesn’t seem to have even put a dent in most peoples daily ‘preening and prepping’ - they continue to go to work; shave their faces or legs and underarms; wear perfumes, deodorants or aftershave lotions; dress to impress; and make plans for their future – all in an effort to keep their loved one, or to attract that “someone special”.

This all boils down to the fact that pornography is really just an off-shoot of what’s already occupying most people’s minds - coupling.

Porn can titillate those who are secure in a couple, and haunt those who are not. Either way, it is there to give people a not so gentle shove to couple-up.

-
Sue

[BMcGilly07]

Hi Ryan,

I know the exact experience you describe above. Whilst solitude is important for overall growth, solitude alone will not bypass this reaction to a beautiful, flirtatious pixie. Indeed, coming out of solitude without having practiced willful, dispassionate detachment and analysis of woman will leave you off at the same point when last you encountered woman. Woman, the bodily form which we feel physically compelled towards, is best approached as a caused phenomenon, whose existence depends on things internally, and things externally.

To the composite entity of woman, there is an ancient meditation practice where the 32 components of the body are sequentially brought to mind. A few of these are: teeth, skin, hair, body hair, mucus, excrement, organs... etc. If you can greet every person as a composite of these repulsive elements, you can break the spell. To the dependent entity of woman, think to the feminine psychological aspect of mind. Needy, selfish, incomplete, etc... If you can see a woman you pass in the street as a hairy, toothy bag of pus that is is dependent upon other's for her existence, you will see what it is the ego pridefully preens, and pines after. This is what she seeks to preserve, and bodily- we are no different, until we are able to assume the body of the infinite.

It may be more fruitful for you to think on these not while in solitude, but while you make your daily rounds in the world abroad.

[sue hindmarsh]

Another way for budding philosophers to look at females they encounter is as their very own children.

Also, you can see them as potential Buddhas.

You wouldn't flirt, want to have sex, or want to couple-up with your own child. Neither would you want to obstruct another persons potential to become wise.

-
Sue

[Ryan Rudolph]

Sue wrote:

And all this porn surrounding us also doesn’t seem to have even put a dent in most peoples daily ‘preening and prepping’ - they continue to go to work; shave their faces or legs and underarms; wear perfumes, deodorants or aftershave lotions; dress to impress; and make plans for their future – all in an effort to keep their loved one, or to attract that “someone special”.

The motivations for shaving and wearing deodorant isn’t always related to attracting a female. I shave my face for the same reason I cut my toe nails and finger nails. It is cleaner and safer. Eating is more difficult with facial hair, it’s dirtier. I wear deodorant because I do not enjoy smelling bad and neither do people I am in relationship with, it is a matter of consideration.

Bryan wrote:

think to the feminine psychological aspect of mind. Needy, selfish, incomplete, etc... If you can see a woman you pass in the street as a hairy, toothy bag of pus that is is dependent upon other's for her existence, you will see what it is the ego pridefully preens, and pines after. This is what she seeks to preserve, and bodily- we are no different, until we are able to assume the body of the infinite.

Sue wrote:

You wouldn't flirt, want to have sex, or want to couple-up with your own child. Neither would you want to obstruct another persons potential to become wise.

Thanks, those are good tips when one wants to avoid and prevent these experiences, however I am still experimenting with women. Testing myself and noting certain psychological responses.

[Trevor Salyzyn]

Ryan,

Thanks, those are good tips when one wants to avoid and prevent these experiences, however I am still experimenting with women. Testing myself and noting certain psychological responses.

That's the same degree of wisdom that makes an otherwise intelligent person experiment with drugs, or that convinces an otherwise bright young child to experiment with the element on a stove. Honestly, that attitude will not teach you very much -- except to avoid what you are experimenting with.

Unless, of course, you intend to make women (or drugs, or really hot things) an important part of your life.

[Ryan Rudolph]

Trevor,

As I stated before, the euphoric intoxication caused by certain women is quite similar to mystical experiences I’ve experienced in mediation, and I’ve recently learnt that ‘woman’ is metaphorically written into the fabric of the universe as a symbol for the ‘infinite’.

So I disagree, one can learn through playing. Playing isn’t a problem if there is clarity, but one must be extremely careful. Sometimes a chemist will attempt tricky experiments, but the insights that can be gained as a result are worth it...

[Trevor Salyzyn]

Ryan,

I’ve recently learnt that ‘woman’ is metaphorically written into the fabric of the universe as a symbol for the ‘infinite’.

Sounds like you are projecting your own mind into the universe. Replace "the universe" with "my mind", and you'll have said something that makes perfect sense.

Sometimes a chemist will attempt tricky experiments, but the insights that can be gained as a result are worth it...

Like Albert Hoffman using LSD on himself?

[Ryan Rudolph]

Trevor wrote:

Sounds like you are projecting your own mind into the universe. Replace "the universe" with "my mind", and you'll have said something that makes perfect sense.

Ah Trevor, I understand what you’re saying, but in my opinion, once one has found the liberated state and there are no longer any suffering, then subjective enjoyment can be derived through a wide range of experiments, as long as one is careful.

Trevor wrote:

Like Albert Hoffman using LSD on himself?

LSD is not necessary, but I can understand someone’s desire to experiment with it in the beginning of his or her search for truth.

Experimenting with how women affect ones mind psychologically is similar, but its a more advanced experiment than LSD, there is much more one can learn from women's affect on the male psyche than the affects of LSD.

Eventually there will come a time when I have no desire to experiment with overly aesthetic and super-emotionally positive women, but for now, there are still a few more experiments I want to try.

If one is a scientist of the internal, one should investigate a variety of possible encounters, especially ones that have cosmic significane like the phenomenon of the overly positive angelic female.

[Cory Duchesne]

If one is a scientist of the internal, one should investigate a variety of possible encounters, especially ones that have cosmic significane like the phenomenon of the overly positive angelic female.

Why don't you explain why you attribute greater significance to some encounters by categorizing them as 'cosmic' while regulating others to not-as-cosmic, or non-cosmic.

It sounds like you're saying: "woman who I find attractive have superior significance".

[Ryan Rudolph]

Cory wrote:

Why don't you explain why you attribute greater significance to some encounters by categorizing them as 'cosmic' while regulating others to not-as-cosmic, or non-cosmic.

It sounds like you're saying: "woman who I find attractive have superior significance".

Significance is defined as pertaining to females I feel metaphorically represent the infinite, which is a purely subjective thing.

However, there are some universal standards such as angelic beauty, charisma, and the degree by which she can overcome this psyche with overwhelming positivity. That is how I was measuring significance.

In other words: How well she fulfils the metaphoric role of the infinite.

most women dont have the personality to affect my psychology, but the odd one is a diamond in the ruff in terms of the psychological bliss she is capable of transferring, and just by talking about nothing.

for it to work, I block out the words, and deal strictly with the feeling.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

...the psychological bliss she is capable of transferring, and just by talking about nothing.

for it to work, I block out the words, and deal strictly with the feeling.

So you are not attracted to her at all, just her body. People are not their bodies, they are their thoughts. Thoughts are substantially communicated by words. By blocking out her words, you are blocking out "her" and dealing only with the physical realm. You earlier likened her to the Infinite, but the Infinite is far more than the physical realm, and it is not all angelic beauty. How do you expect to connect to the Infinite through her while blocking out her words?

[Ryan Rudolph]

Elizabeth wrote:

How do you expect to connect to the Infinite through her while blocking out her words?

I’m not actually touching the same timeless bliss that one can touch in mediation (that experience has only happens a few times for myself – so don't confuse this with an actual experience of the timeless bliss)

However, what I am saying is that certain overly positive, (unintelligent) angelic females are a metaphor for that state and if a male listens to the subjective feeling that they are speaking from, it has the capability to overwhelm the male mind in the same way the infinite can in the depths of mediation.

When I say block out her words, I simply mean strictly deal with the feeling she is speaking from and not her actual conversation ...

I know, It’s cheating Elizabeth, the entire experiment is based on using women for an intense subjective reward, so you caught me, go ahead get a mob together and hang me from the nearest tree…

But It is not a sexual thing, (I've used women purely for sex before, but not this time I swear) it is a subjective thing, she makes you feel eurphoric, overly joyous, and immortal – I cant put it into words properly, but you get the idea…

***Note: I'm refering to something entirely different than what I initially began discussing with Leyla at the beginning of this page - My first comment was on the negative power of the sexual female and what she does to the male mind***

this last comment is based on the bliss that angelic females are capable of transferring to an open, submissive male mind.

I bet guys like Crowley knew about this metaphor, he probably abused it himself. Overall, it's not all that useful, and I'll probably give it up fairly soon...or not.. (to be continued)...

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

Easy now, I'm not here to lynch you. Actually I was on your side until I read that part about blocking out her words. I was still back on that concept we were discussing earlier about enjoyable experiences having a worthwhile place between intelligent, aware people. I thought perhaps you'd found some bright classmate that had attracted you on multiple appropriate levels. I see now that this isn't the case, but let's just analyze this.

Perhaps all that will come of our analysis will be that I will better understand how the male mind perceives the infinite and/or such females as you describe.

what I am saying is that certain overly positive, (unintelligent) angelic females are a metaphor for that state and if a male listens to the subjective feeling that they are speaking from, it has the capability to overwhelm the male mind in the same way the infinite can in the depths of mediation.

So what you are looking to experience is a state of being overwhelmed, and because both females of this type and the Infinite have overwhelmed you, you think there is a correlation?

this last comment is based on the bliss that angelic females are capable of transferring to an open, submissive male mind.

What's with this angelic stuff? You know better on that score. And you don't see the difference between submitting to a human female and to the Infinite? Mutually enjoying some pleasures is one thing, but submitting to a human - and worse than that, submitting to someone you consider unintelligent... Explain to me how a male even can submit to something he considers less than he is.

edit - okay, the last paragraph may look like a lynching - but understand that it is just a reflection of my thinking that this looks rather illogical.

[Tharan]

Tharan wrote:

Elizabeth, the earlier post in which you descibed your family was a good read. Well written. I liked your description of your mom as essentially the QRS female with a feminine veneer.

What feminine veneer??? "Veneer" is the feminine. Ryan, for one, is besotted by it.

Actually, a person's perception of themselves can encompass more than just the veneer. A hunter ruthlessly pursuing its prey is usually what is needed when seeking enlightenment, for example. That same hunter-type can come in many packages and seek many different prey. It can be a full personality, not only a veneer.

Like a man on welfare, why not? It is there for you, it is illogical not to use it, espcially when your heart is not into slaving at something else for maybe a little more money. I have always had a similar conception about certain females, especially ones that are attractive and know how to use it. Add inteligence to that mix and men begin to have dreams of burkhas. The women have enormous social power simply because men's emotions kick into a kind of gnawing hunger state that clouds rational judgement. Advantage: inteligent, attractive woman. But as long as it is the case, there is no logical reason not to use that advantage. That same man probably would, if he could.

Logical except for the one small factor: it has nothing to do with wisdom and everything to do with immediacty and pragmatic materialism.

Fantastic. Forget actual wisdom. Let's just revel--no, celebrate!--mindlessly fulfilling this unconscious "power" that reduces men to salivating morons and makes them chase their salvation in genes and testosterone because its materialistically pragmatic.

Talk about hell realms.

Fair dinkum. You can't be serious, Tharan? Surely this is not the "wisdom" you teach your daughter?

Was I talking about enlightenment? Was I "reveling" in unconsciousness? I was only describing a personality type in the context of Elizabeth's post, which had nothing whatsoever to do with enlightenment.

Leyla would you like me to bleed for you? Shalll I slice open my wrists? Would you like my head to roll on the ground? Should I spend many years in jail in solitary pentinence until I can qualify to beg your forgiveness for disagreeing some months ago? What, my queen, can I do to win back your approval?

[Ryan Rudolph]

Elizabeth wrote:

So what you are looking to experience is a state of being overwhelmed, and because both females of this type and the Infinite have overwhelmed you, you think there is a correlation?

Yes, I believe there is a correlation, both experiences feel quite similar.

Elizabeth wrote:

And you don't see the difference between submitting to a human female and to the Infinite?

There is a big difference, the first one is cheating and quite manipulative – (oops), although it is quite harmless to the female involved.

Elizabeth wrotoe:

submitting to someone you consider unintelligent... Explain to me how a male even can submit to something he considers less than he is.

Submit is a harsh word, its more like allowing her subjectivity to affect him.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Ryan,

I’ve recently learnt that ‘woman’ is metaphorically written into the fabric of the universe as a symbol for the ‘infinite’.

Sounds like you are projecting your own mind into the universe. Replace "the universe" with "my mind", and you'll have said something that makes perfect sense.

The universe will never be able to be something else than a projection of mind. But knowledge of the mind and its language ('the language of angels') compensate for the subjective elements and make universal understanding possible. Still a human understanding but it goes beyond just the odd mind or idios kosmos.

Many traditions underscore what Ryan wrote: from Lila, Maya, Avidya to Sophia and the Goddess.

The feminine as ignorance is the almost revealing veil before the face of the universe. Woe to the man that falls in love with the veil instead of parting her.

[Cory Duchesne]

The universe will never be able to be something else than a projection of mind. But knowledge of the mind and its language ('the language of angels') compensate for the subjective elements and make universal understanding possible.

Diebert riddler. Help me understand what you mean.

For instance, I see you have created a dichotomy between 'the language of angels' and 'the subjective elements'.

The subjective elements you seem to be denigrating.

Whereas you are apparently idealizing ‘knowledge of the mind’.

Do you consider knowledge of the mind to be synonymous with 'the language of the angels'? Or is that another significant dichotomy?

[reedsch]

I also learned that an awful lot of people become unreasonable and irrational when they are in love.

I'm guilty as charged. Love is the drug for me.

Someone once said the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference. If I didn't love her there would be no way for her to get under my skin and torture me so. And I want to see her sparks go flying too, heat means that there is lava in the subterranean chamber. And she rips me up sometimes; I don't care if she inflicts superficial damage, for men scars are something to be proud of.

I had an earlier exerience where a woman I was competing for was effectively claimed physically by another guy, he beat her rather severely. It is speaking in language that is clearly understood: YOU'RE MINE. In and of itself force is certainly not sufficient to sustain a relationship of any kind (so eventually he lost), but it is a tool which has useful applications. Western men have been brainwashed into a totally hands-off approach, but I think this has been to the detriment of both parties in some ways because this a primal language developed over millions of years (watch cats mate if you don't think so).

[DHodges]

I'm guilty as charged. Love is the drug for me.

Do you see that as a bad thing? Or are you okay with it?

[reedsch]

Do you see that as a bad thing? Or are you okay with it?

There is no better buzz. Nor a more painful crash.

Check out "The Heart's Code"
Link
simply as an introduction to the possibility that both intelligence and emotion are DISTRIBUTED and not ISOLATED IN THE BRAIN.

For example, in Chinese Qi Gong (which forms the basis of accupuncture), each organ has its own energy flow and positive and negative emotions. It makes us more of a confederation of cooperative organs, as opposed to the Western model which pretty much sees us as a brain and the rest is support. In Qi Gong, there really is a "gut feeling". And the heart makes decisions. Interesting enough, in traditional accupuncture there are no energy meridians for the brain.

[DHodges]

Solitude is the only solution for these rare gems. My mind is clear and free when I’m alone, but in the presence of an flirty sexually attractive women (like at university), suddenly the intense carnal appetite kicks in, there is an indescripable feeling of incompleteness, euphoria, intense love, she has the power to totally bewitch, book learning doesn’t change the biological instincts, they function as they always have.

Given that you are at university, I take it you are probably in your twenties, and the females in question are, as well. This is the peak of the mating instinct.

When you get older, your hormones get less demanding, and the women get less attractive. So this, too, will pass.

Just be aware of it and don't let it control you.

[Nick]

I believe it is best for me to avoid women as much as possible until my libido chills out a bit. I'm 22 years old but will I live to see 30 as a celibate man? God help me I'm in love with a woman that doesn't exist!

Dhodges or anyone else who is old enough to answer this question: How old were you when you could sense your sexual urges begin to subside?

[Leyla Shen]

Tharan: Elizabeth, the earlier post in which you descibed your family was a good read. Well written. I liked your description of your mom as essentially the QRS female with a feminine veneer.

L: What feminine veneer??? "Veneer" is the feminine. Ryan, for one, is besotted by it.

T: Actually, a person's perception of themselves can encompass more than just the veneer. A hunter ruthlessly pursuing its prey is usually what is needed when seeking enlightenment, for example. That same hunter-type can come in many packages and seek many different prey. It can be a full personality, not only a veneer.

The “QSR female” is feminine, always, by definition. She personifies the unconscious. That, and how, she does this in the minds of men is their point.

The best hunter is active not passive, aggressive not submissive. He respects his prey. Whether the prey be an animal or truth therefore, he does not wittingly or unwittingly exploit or mistreat it but uses it strictly and fairly for its purpose.

It seems to me that Elizabeth, for some reason, has left out equal examination of her father at the same time as her mother in this man-woman/hunter-prey dynamic. When the hunter sets out to catch Woman in the form of female, is it any wonder he bites and gets bitten, controls and loses control over her as well as himself?

Oh, how noble and self-sacrificing is the hunter who instinctively plays into the trap as the hunt, so easily feigning death and becoming prey in order to become predator.

Was I talking about enlightenment? Was I "reveling" in unconsciousness? I was only describing a personality type in the context of Elizabeth's post, which had nothing whatsoever to do with enlightenment.

How dare you!

Leyla would you like me to bleed for you? Shalll I slice open my wrists? Would you like my head to roll on the ground? Should I spend many years in jail in solitary pentinence until I can qualify to beg your forgiveness for disagreeing some months ago? What, my queen, can I do to win back your approval?

Well, I’m not sure why you’re wanting my forgiveness. If you do, what exactly am I supposed to be forgiving you for--being American, loving Jews, supporting violence against the Palestinians, all of the foregoing?

If it’s simply me you want to please, at this point a cup of tea and a full-body massage would be great.

Alternatively, you could stop doing my head in by holding on to our disagreements and melding them into one big generality so that I may forgive you -- and AU$50k would be good, too.

[Dan, I don’t suppose you can fix this thread so I don’t have scroll horizontally…?]

.

[Blair]

The following clip seems pertinent to this thread.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MFoyp71xw3w

Which of the two is being 'abused', the more?