Some Questions of Trevor

Post questions or suggestions here.
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sschaula
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Post by sschaula »

Kow,

I didn't really want a comment from you. I wanted you to not diss me pointlessly, avoiding any actual discussion. I got what I wanted...
You, the self, are the reality of illusion, the what is right now. Truth/non-duality is what is only when it is manifest. Otherwise, it's just an idea.
You're obviously confusing many things. Truth/nonduality is reality. Nonduality can't be manifest, then cease being nondual when it's nonmanifest. An idea of truth, or nonduality is an idea and it's not truth or nonduality.
- Scott
kowtaaia
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Post by kowtaaia »

sschaula wrote:Kow,

I didn't really want a comment from you. I wanted you to not diss me pointlessly, avoiding any actual discussion. I got what I wanted...
You, the self, are the reality of illusion, the what is right now. Truth/non-duality is what is only when it is manifest. Otherwise, it's just an idea.
You're obviously confusing many things. Truth/nonduality is reality. Nonduality can't be manifest, then cease being nondual when it's nonmanifest. An idea of truth, or nonduality is an idea and it's not truth or nonduality.
No, actually you're talking about something that you have no understanding of. Why you're even commenting on this thread, is a mystery.
sschaula
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Post by sschaula »

Kow,
No, actually you're talking about something that you have no understanding of.
If that is so, prove it.
- Scott
kowtaaia
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Post by kowtaaia »

Wouldn't that leave you unemployed?
sschaula
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Post by sschaula »

True: it's my job to make sense, and your job to be absolutely fucking pointless.
- Scott
kowtaaia
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Post by kowtaaia »

You have to work on your reading comprehension, Scott. From the moment you asked 'Bo' those ridiculous questions, it was obvious that you were in way over your head. Welcome back though. It must have been quite a strain for you to play nice for the last couple of days.
sschaula
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Post by sschaula »

Kow,
You have to work on your reading comprehension, Scott.
Why? What did I miss? POINT IT OUT instead of making blanket statements. This is a discussion board...so discuss something! Don't just state your opinion. Give REASONS for why you have that opinion. If you state a supposed fact, give EVIDENCE!
From the moment you asked 'Bo' those ridiculous questions, it was obvious that you were in way over your head.
Tell me exactly how you think I was in order my head by what I asked. Or is it that you are incapable of doing so, because you don't actually know what you're saying...you're just bickering because you're a little bitch?

:) :) :)

Were you actually able to come up with the answers to the questions? Did you not see that it showed how Bo was in over his head?
Welcome back though. It must have been quite a strain for you to play nice for the last couple of days.
You do annoy the hell out of me, Kow. It is a strain to play nice with you. I'd beat the crap out of you if this were a real life discussion, just because no one should be so annoying.

Someone might say "what would it do, Scott, if you were to beat up Kow? What would it solve? What would be the point?" It would be pointless, it would solve nothing and it would do nothing...but I'd still enjoy it.
- Scott
kowtaaia
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Post by kowtaaia »

sschaula wrote:Kow,
You have to work on your reading comprehension, Scott.
Why? What did I miss? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Read back to what it was a response to, brainiac! Kow isn't your mommy.

The same goes for the rest of your questions. Do your own fucking homework.

As for your threat; you probably couldn't knock a sailor off your sister. Wonderful display of what you are, though.
sschaula
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Post by sschaula »

Read back to what it was a response to, brainiac! Kow isn't your mommy.
Do you see what I'm saying? You don't post any substance.
The same goes for the rest of your questions. Do your own fucking homework.
I have. The questions aren't because I'm trying to figure out the answers, dumbass. I've got them already. They were strategically placed to tear down the delusions that Bo has...and obviously what you have as well.

I guess idiots don't even take the time to listen when something is being spelled out for them, though.
As for your threat; you probably couldn't knock a sailor off your sister. Wonderful display of what you are, though.
Yes, it was quite revealing of what I actually think of you.
- Scott
Pye
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Post by Pye »

.

Iaolus writes:
I have a very active mind myself, highly bound up with my ego. I have figured out that my ego, a very dutiful sentinel, is afraid that if it lets go for any moment, it will die, and will cause me, whom it protects vigilantly, to die.
I tell a strange experience to you, Iaolus, from the deepest year of meditation practice (some time ago) -- a little phenomenon that began rising in the thick of it . . . .

A few times when I was sitting, when it got easier and easier and without effort to silence the internal narrator, which we will call "ego" here -- well, a few times in the greatest depths of this, I began to forget to breathe. In this total silence of being (which is always pure in itself), with my my-ness apparently dissolved and mingled into the silence, I would simply stop breathing, unconsciously.

At the inhale or the exhale, everything was so still that I would become this stillness, too. I never choked, or suddenly gasped to recover - I would just commence a breath that had been easily left off for, in retrospect, a startling amount of time. It almost seemed as though I could have stopped breathing altogether had I not been recalled to myself. I never talked to any buddhists or meditators about this because I originally thought it so very strange. Perhaps this is the back-door reason for the advice to concentrate on the breath [/ironic humour]

I do not share the "ego death" aspect of modern buddhism, in fact, I think such a thing intrinsically impossible, as one's sense of self shall always accompany them as long as they live.

I think it is a kind of ego-perspective that buddhism points to, and that the dramatic "death" descriptions are merely descriptions of shedding and shedding the protective layers of ego that bubble-in a person too closely to themselves, so that they have restricted capacity to see what others see, or even to see the world, or the present itself. Paradoxically, I think it is expansion of one's sense of self that is called for - the taking in of more and more past oneself, which, of course, does not mean one is past oneself at all. It merely means that one's awareness is more outward-turning, for the sake of awareness within.

Ego can only die when the person dies, so in many ways, I find your comments above pointedly accurate. Your sense of self does protect you vigilantly, and it will continue this protection as long as you live, but more importantly, giving you reasons to live in itself.

The dramatic ego-death scenario is a favourite here. I share in the sentiment of it only along the lines mentioned above.


.
kowtaaia
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Post by kowtaaia »

sschaula wrote:
Read back to what it was a response to, brainiac! Kow isn't your mommy.
Do you see what I'm saying? You don't post any substance.
Are you really as thick as you come across? All that you have to do is read what it was response to.
sschaula wrote:
The same goes for the rest of your questions. Do your own fucking homework.
I have. The questions aren't because I'm trying to figure out the answers, dumbass. I've got them already. They were strategically placed to tear down the delusions that Bo has...and obviously what you have as well.

I guess idiots don't even take the time to listen when something is being spelled out for them, though.
No you don't, do you? The only thing that's strategically placed, is your ass where your mouth is supposed to be. She was talking about what the Buddha said. No doubt, if and when she returns, she'll set you straight about your kindergarten type questions.
sschaula wrote:
As for your threat; you probably couldn't knock a sailor off your sister. Wonderful display of what you are, though.
Yes, it was quite revealing of what I actually think of you.
It showed that you're a goon.
sschaula
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Post by sschaula »

Pye,

Good post. What you experienced with the breath is called kevala kumbhaka in the yogic tradition.

Kow,
Are you really as thick as you come across? All that you have to do is read what it was response to.
I did read it. I must be really thick...probably thicker than I come across. I'm so stupid that I actually need people to communicate what they mean, otherwise it'll fly right over my head.

Man, I'm a dumbass for not knowing what you mean half the time when you post your stupid little sentences.
She was talking about what the Buddha said. No doubt, if and when she returns, she'll set you straight about your kindergarten type questions.
I know she was talking about what the Buddha said dumbass. I hope "she" can answer the questions, because they would unravel her stupid notions of Buddhism, and probably yours as well (if you even have any).
It showed that you're a goon.
So? Your posts show that you're a piece of shit...so what?
- Scott
kowtaaia
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Post by kowtaaia »

It's better to be a piece of shit in the eyes of a goon, than a goon in everyones eyes. You made a pathetic showing of yourself in actually threatening someone with physical violence. The closest you'll ever get to genius is the first letter of 'goon'.
kowtaaia
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Post by kowtaaia »

Could someone please start a thread on beating up people or excrement, so Scott has a thread to impart his great knowledge on?
Bo
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Post by Bo »

sschaula wrote:Your writing is particularly full of fetters.
"full of fetters" *laughs* Thanks for trying to accomodate the foreign language.

;)
sschaula
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Post by sschaula »

Did you understand what I meant when I said it was full of fetters, Bo?
- Scott
Bo
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Post by Bo »

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:
Bo wrote:Anyone who has actually worked with koans know that it is an exercise which the intellect is unable to solve.

Working on a koan is a teaching between student and Roshi in any case.
While this is true and not many here would dispute the remark, it seems way off in the context of the discussion. The koan is not supposed to be 'solved' (duh!) but the koan tradition is without doubt a heavy intellectual tool, unusual perhaps but not attempting to shut down anything.
Thanks for your point, D.

You are right it is not to be 'solved' intellectually - but the answer is realised. And it is known in that that koans are not intellectual riddles. This is why there is in effect a 'right' and a 'wrong' to a koan and that is why it is known when one does not know what a koan really is (etc etc). There are pages of questions to affirm a student's 'grasp' of this. Clearly it is not just a punchline, but nor is it just a 'wow' factor that is fed in like a subconscious strand - and again it cannot be something comprehended by the intellect alone.

Best wishes.
Last edited by Bo on Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Steven Coyle

Post by Steven Coyle »

Pye,

Thanks (?) for posting your last post.

A few months back, periodically, while lying down before sleep, I would "forget to breathe" - as my mind was unusually still.

Now I know the cause of the problem.
Pye
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Post by Pye »

.

Scott, thank you for the name of it. I googled it and read a bit and was not aware that this was something that people tried to do. I certainly didn't try to do this; it happened by itself.

Hi Steven. Did you see this as a "problem"? I know you were awake, so it could not be apnea(!)

I did not know that kevala kumbhaka receives such worshipful recommendation in the yogic tradition (curing diseases; wandering the universe, etc.), but it is easy to see this from a whole-cloth sense. We each have only a certain amount of ch'i to expend in a lifetime. We can draw it out or squander it madly. I don't think one necessarily recommends itself over the other -- like Niezstche, I find some individuals who are squandering madly to be as bright amongst us as the quietly wise. So what, if these squanderers leave us sooner -- perhaps they leave more than the little organism trying to draw its life out in slow measure, just for the sake of it.

Frankly, rather then a mystical experience, I found the breath cessation more of an autonomic response to the deep silencing of the personal narrator. In that silence, it was not necessary to supply as much oxygen for the constant internal oration.


.
Bo
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Post by Bo »

sschaula wrote:Did you understand what I meant when I said it was full of fetters, Bo?

Dear Scott - Yes, it shows that you did not yet comprehend what was posted. Your use of the word "fetters" was intended to bait and put you in the ready position to show that you found some 'good logical holes' in what was presented.

But really what was presented was just standard and can be known for each person. That it is not yet known by you (as evidenced by the questions you posed) is fine, and needs no defence. Note the word yet.

Best wishes.
unwise
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Post by unwise »

Pye said:
I tell a strange experience to you, Iaolus, from the deepest year of meditation practice (some time ago) -- a little phenomenon that began rising in the thick of it . . . .

A few times when I was sitting, when it got easier and easier and without effort to silence the internal narrator, which we will call "ego" here -- well, a few times in the greatest depths of this, I began to forget to breathe. In this total silence of being (which is always pure in itself), with my my-ness apparently dissolved and mingled into the silence, I would simply stop breathing, unconsciously.

At the inhale or the exhale, everything was so still that I would become this stillness, too. I never choked, or suddenly gasped to recover - I would just commence a breath that had been easily left off for, in retrospect, a startling amount of time. It almost seemed as though I could have stopped breathing altogether had I not been recalled to myself. I never talked to any buddhists or meditators about this because I originally thought it so very strange. Perhaps this is the back-door reason for the advice to concentrate on the breath [/ironic humour]

I do not share the "ego death" aspect of modern buddhism, in fact, I think such a thing intrinsically impossible, as one's sense of self shall always accompany them as long as they live.

I think it is a kind of ego-perspective that buddhism points to, and that the dramatic "death" descriptions are merely descriptions of shedding and shedding the protective layers of ego that bubble-in a person too closely to themselves, so that they have restricted capacity to see what others see, or even to see the world, or the present itself. Paradoxically, I think it is expansion of one's sense of self that is called for - the taking in of more and more past oneself, which, of course, does not mean one is past oneself at all. It merely means that one's awareness is more outward-turning, for the sake of awareness within.

Ego can only die when the person dies, so in many ways, I find your comments above pointedly accurate. Your sense of self does protect you vigilantly, and it will continue this protection as long as you live, but more importantly, giving you reasons to live in itself.

The dramatic ego-death scenario is a favourite here. I share in the sentiment of it only along the lines mentioned above.

In the midst of the food fight and the Sears gurus we have here authentic experience and the wisdom that is sorted out from knowing for oneself.
sschaula
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Post by sschaula »

Pye,
Scott, thank you for the name of it. I googled it and read a bit and was not aware that this was something that people tried to do. I certainly didn't try to do this; it happened by itself.
In my personal opinion, without calming the mind kevala kumbhaka is impossible. Different physical practices, like the six duties, siddhasana or padmasana, pranayama (holding the breath and slow down the breathing), and focusing on the third eye can bring it about quicker...but without the calmness of mind, as you could guess, the breathlessness is impossible.

The kriya yoga tradition's main goal is to be able to bring about the breathless state at will. They consider a person who can do that "God realized".
I did not know that kevala kumbhaka receives such worshipful recommendation in the yogic tradition (curing diseases; wandering the universe, etc.), but it is easy to see this from a whole-cloth sense. We each have only a certain amount of ch'i to expend in a lifetime.
If a person from the yogic tradition says you can cure diseases and roam the universe by kevala kumbhaka, it's not wise to automatically believe him. It's best to see for yourself if the claims are true.

Many people practice yoga exercises and believe all the claims, yet they haven't come true for them personally. I have many fellow practitioners who claim that yogis can levitate, yet they have never met one and they can't do it.
Frankly, rather then a mystical experience, I found the breath cessation more of an autonomic response to the deep silencing of the personal narrator. In that silence, it was not necessary to supply as much oxygen for the constant internal oration.
I'm glad you don't hold any delusions about it, as many do.
- Scott
sschaula
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Post by sschaula »

Unwise,
In the midst of the food fight and the Sears gurus we have here authentic experience and the wisdom that is sorted out from knowing for oneself.
You're just saying that because Pye said the ego continues on until you die.
- Scott
sschaula
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Post by sschaula »

Bo,
Dear Scott - Yes, it shows that you did not yet comprehend what was posted. Your use of the word "fetters" was intended to bait and put you in the ready position to show that you found some 'good logical holes' in what was presented.
How about instead of pulling a Kow, you actually answer the questions I asked you initially? I think that would sort things out much more clearly and quickly than this bullshit you're giving here.
But really what was presented was just standard and can be known for each person. That it is not yet known by you (as evidenced by the questions you posed) is fine, and needs no defence. Note the word yet.
Why do you and Kow both assume I'm missing the point simply by the questions I posted?
Best wishes.
Fuck yourself.
- Scott
Steven Coyle

Post by Steven Coyle »

Hey Pye,
Pye wrote:Did you see this as a "problem"? I know you were awake, so it could not be apnea(!)
I think I disregarded it because it was a "phenomenon of sleep." Left me with somewhat of a hazy "Eh..."
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