Christmas is once again approaching, which means parents and other adults get to indulge in some intense child abuse. Yes, adults enjoy destroying children’s minds with a lot of lies and gobbledygook as much as they do filling their own minds and lives with the same.
Children enjoy games of make believe, for they have wonderful imaginations which allow them to experience and explore the world in many varied ways. But adults can’t resist using this innocent characteristic against them by introducing sadistic adult fictions into their lives. Father Christmas, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy are just a few that appear in many Western countries, but every culture has their own fictional characters to use to torture children with. The adults that gleefully indulge in this madness can’t help themselves, for they are entirely insane. Children have no defenses against adults that hoodwink and fool them, for they are too young and vulnerable, trusting completely that adults will tell them the truth.
Children realize whilst still quite young that their parents and most other adults have been lying to them all this time. They grow-up anxious and unsure about what is real and what is false, and who they can and cannot trust. This then propels them into other fictions as they make a grab for anything that claims to offer them a comforting certainty. Love and marriage, religions and gods, friends and gossip, family and community, jobs and money – all gross fictions that drive the poison deeper into these young people’s minds – rendering them as insane as the adults who had been entrusted with their futures.
Merry Insanity!
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Sue
Merry Insanity!
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sue hindmarsh
- Posts: 1083
- Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:02 am
- Location: Sous Le Soleil
Re: Merry Insanity!
oh, well, I'm glad I'm not the only one who hates Christmas.
The entire thing seems ridiculous. I mean, the area where I grew up people competed with eachother for the "best" display of gaudy christmas lights and decorations - to the extent that many families had multi thousand dollar light displays.
Fist fights over the latest Tickle-me-elmo craze toy it will be this year.
But this story was related to me by a friend about two weeks ago. A bunch of his friends and he decided to go help out at a holiday dinner for the homeless. Turns out a lot of people like to help out on Christmas, even though they never do for the rest of the year. The new volunteers, many of them, were left sitting without much to do and began grumbling amongst themselves as to how the day was wasted. What a disgusting display of ego. Showing up just to be seen volunteering and allowed to pat yourself on the back, and then complaining about your own boredom instead of being thankful that there are enough people to make the program a success.
-Rory
The entire thing seems ridiculous. I mean, the area where I grew up people competed with eachother for the "best" display of gaudy christmas lights and decorations - to the extent that many families had multi thousand dollar light displays.
Fist fights over the latest Tickle-me-elmo craze toy it will be this year.
But this story was related to me by a friend about two weeks ago. A bunch of his friends and he decided to go help out at a holiday dinner for the homeless. Turns out a lot of people like to help out on Christmas, even though they never do for the rest of the year. The new volunteers, many of them, were left sitting without much to do and began grumbling amongst themselves as to how the day was wasted. What a disgusting display of ego. Showing up just to be seen volunteering and allowed to pat yourself on the back, and then complaining about your own boredom instead of being thankful that there are enough people to make the program a success.
-Rory
It's very easy to grumble about things. I really do question whether this kind of thing comes from a love of truth, or a love of grumbling.
Not many people actually believe in Santa Claus, you know. It's just an image portrayed with this time of year. Not a very threatening delusion. Not nearly as much of a threat to truth and consciousness, as is this kind of a display of ego, where you need to grumble about anything which brings joy to people.
It's so easy to look down on others. It's much harder to look down on ourselves. Maybe that's a good thing to think about this Christmas season (or as some will call it here, Xmas).
Happy Holidays to everyone, even if it's not spent celebrating with family and friends.
Not many people actually believe in Santa Claus, you know. It's just an image portrayed with this time of year. Not a very threatening delusion. Not nearly as much of a threat to truth and consciousness, as is this kind of a display of ego, where you need to grumble about anything which brings joy to people.
It's so easy to look down on others. It's much harder to look down on ourselves. Maybe that's a good thing to think about this Christmas season (or as some will call it here, Xmas).
Happy Holidays to everyone, even if it's not spent celebrating with family and friends.
- Scott
Santa could really almost be a useful delusion.sschaula wrote: Not many people actually believe in Santa Claus, you know. It's just an image portrayed with this time of year. Not a very threatening delusion. Not nearly as much of a threat to truth and consciousness, as is this kind of a display of ego, where you need to grumble about anything which brings joy to people.
I have heard evangelical preachers rail against him because when children learn that he isn't real they may start to doubt other things including God. If it teaches any children that everyone lies to them, including their parents it may serve a beneficial purpose... allow some children to not be as brainwashed as others by society as a whole.
-Rory
You don't have any children do you?Christmas is once again approaching, which means parents and other adults get to indulge in some intense child abuse. Yes, adults enjoy destroying children’s minds with a lot of lies and gobbledygook as much as they do filling their own minds and lives with the same.
Children enjoy games of make believe, for they have wonderful imaginations which allow them to experience and explore the world in many varied ways. But adults can’t resist using this innocent characteristic against them by introducing sadistic adult fictions into their lives. Father Christmas, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy are just a few that appear in many Western countries, but every culture has their own fictional characters to use to torture children with. The adults that gleefully indulge in this madness can’t help themselves, for they are entirely insane. Children have no defenses against adults that hoodwink and fool them, for they are too young and vulnerable, trusting completely that adults will tell them the truth.
Children realize whilst still quite young that their parents and most other adults have been lying to them all this time. They grow-up anxious and unsure about what is real and what is false, and who they can and cannot trust. This then propels them into other fictions as they make a grab for anything that claims to offer them a comforting certainty. Love and marriage, religions and gods, friends and gossip, family and community, jobs and money – all gross fictions that drive the poison deeper into these young people’s minds – rendering them as insane as the adults who had been entrusted with their futures.
Merry Insanity!
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Sue
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Elizabeth Isabelle
- Posts: 3771
- Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:35 am
I find it interesting that Sue brought this up at this time. I posted a Santa thread back in mid-October for the purpose of discussing honesty.sschaula wrote:It's very easy to grumble about things. I really do question whether this kind of thing comes from a love of truth, or a love of grumbling.
I suspect she may be bringing it up now as a way of pouting about not participating in holiday activities. The man she is trying to impress does not approve of the kind of femininity that holiday bluster brings about - so if one may not participate as others do, they can still participate by moaning about it.
I confess to having done my share of moaning about the holidays - I even whined a bit about Thanksgiving a few weeks ago even though it doesn't really bother me that I don't have a family that I can participate in holidays like that with. I even recognize that I must not be the only American that was alone on Thanksgiving, yet I got to have my own little pity party for Thanksgiving. Actually, right now I'm having something of a pity party about Christmas in this paragraph right here - even though it doesn't actually bother me. I was just remembering last Christmas, and recalling with amusement that I got Christmas cards from my accountant and my dentist. Recognizing the absurdity of it is amusing to me now, but there was a time when it did bother me, and moping while going through old family photos was helpful.
Grumbling about it is just another way to celebrate the holiday.
I too am annoyed by christmas, especially because everyone I know wont let me forget that it is almost here, even though I have told them multiple times I couldn't even give two shits about it. It's as if they can't accept it, or it doesn't register in their brains that someone could not celebrate it. It probably has something to do with them all being brainwashed as children by their parents about the "magic" of the christmas. I'd say Sue is right on the money with her analysis.
uh. December seems like a fairly normal time to bring up Santa. I'm completely surrounded by him lately, so him being on Sue's mind isn't really something to comment on.Elizabeth Isabelle wrote: I find it interesting that Sue brought this up at this time. I posted a Santa thread back in mid-October for the purpose of discussing honesty.
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Elizabeth Isabelle
- Posts: 3771
- Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:35 am
It is precisely because he's everywhere now that I find it noteworthy that Sue chooses now to bring him up. Actually, he's everywhere every December, so it isn't like it's an unusual event. If she were truly detached from the whole holiday thing, her mind would have been on some other topic. How many years is it going to take her to process the whole holiday topic?Rory wrote:December seems like a fairly normal time to bring up Santa. I'm completely surrounded by him lately, so him being on Sue's mind isn't really something to comment on.
There are cars everywhere, too - but she did not bring up a topic about cars.
Are you fucking serious? Cars don't brainwash children and decrease their chances of ever leading a life which is firmly grounded in reality. Something which I believe Sue holds with very high regard.Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:There are cars everywhere, too - but she did not bring up a topic about cars.
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Leyla Shen
- Posts: 3851
- Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:12 pm
- Location: Flippen-well AUSTRALIA
No, cars don't brainwash children, etc, but car merchants do, and parental example and peer pressure do. You should see the gas guzzling latest model monster pickup trucks a bunch of my co-workers tootle around town in. What about the insane driving tactics children learn and the need for useless traveling that contribute to stress and accident on a daily basis? Cars are just like Santa; Santa doesn't brainwash; it is the retailers, parents and peers creating the problem. Actually, cars are worse, because they are a year round pathology.Nick Treklis wrote:Are you fucking serious? Cars don't brainwash children and decrease their chances of ever leading a life which is firmly grounded in reality.Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:There are cars everywhere, too - but she did not bring up a topic about cars.
Good Citizen Carl
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Elizabeth Isabelle
- Posts: 3771
- Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:35 am
same sort of thing, but I think this one's funnier and better highlights some philosophical implications of Santa liesLeyla Shen wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsZjaooOty4
A few days ago, the water shortage in Australia was important to Sue (as well it should be). How about the impact of pollution brought about by cars? Doesn't the hole in the ozone layer decrease children's chance of a life at all? One must have a life to have a life firmly grounded in reality. Recognizing the impact of pollution is an example of being firmly grounded in reality.Nick Treklis wrote:Are you fucking serious? Cars don't brainwash children and decrease their chances of ever leading a life which is firmly grounded in reality. Something which I believe Sue holds with very high regard.Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:There are cars everywhere, too - but she did not bring up a topic about cars.
Now that's funny.unwise wrote:Santa does not inherently exist.
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Cory Duchesne
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I do find Christmas to be pretty evil, generally that is. It's a really wasteful and gluttonous time of year
Since I'm working at the phone company, recieving incoming calls for people who want phone service, I make a note of the collective mood people are in at certain times of the year. I find that as the holidays approach people become simultaneously more unhappy, angry, stressed AND yet there are a few who become more good willed and cheerful. I think the former outweighs the later though.
Christmas is a time of year where inequality, tribalism, hope, delusion and sensuality becomes amplified.
What disturbs me is when I hear stories like I heard the other day. Some husband and wife (the wife I work with) thought it was a good idea to make a home video that captured the real life Santa Clause doing his thing on Christmas eve. The next morning on christmas day, they showed their kids the video of what santa did the night before. To make things extra trippy for the kids, they filmed santa making his exit out the chimney by using that special effect where you stop recording for a brief second, and then start re-recording with Santa no longer in the frame. The effect is that Santa snaps his fingers and disappears out of thin air, with his magic. This woman I work with was telling her friends the story of her kids reaction. She said that her kids reaction wasnt really a happy and cheerful reaction, but the look on the kids faces was disturbed, shocked, exasperated - as if the laws of reality had become so violated before their eyes, that their brains didnt know how to react. The mother of course just thought this was so funny and adorable!
Our first 12 years of mental development are so important. And this is what parents are doing to kids minds! Making reality seem magical.
Narcisistic, artifical parents sowing the seeds to extremely artifical and narcisistic children.
Since I'm working at the phone company, recieving incoming calls for people who want phone service, I make a note of the collective mood people are in at certain times of the year. I find that as the holidays approach people become simultaneously more unhappy, angry, stressed AND yet there are a few who become more good willed and cheerful. I think the former outweighs the later though.
Christmas is a time of year where inequality, tribalism, hope, delusion and sensuality becomes amplified.
What disturbs me is when I hear stories like I heard the other day. Some husband and wife (the wife I work with) thought it was a good idea to make a home video that captured the real life Santa Clause doing his thing on Christmas eve. The next morning on christmas day, they showed their kids the video of what santa did the night before. To make things extra trippy for the kids, they filmed santa making his exit out the chimney by using that special effect where you stop recording for a brief second, and then start re-recording with Santa no longer in the frame. The effect is that Santa snaps his fingers and disappears out of thin air, with his magic. This woman I work with was telling her friends the story of her kids reaction. She said that her kids reaction wasnt really a happy and cheerful reaction, but the look on the kids faces was disturbed, shocked, exasperated - as if the laws of reality had become so violated before their eyes, that their brains didnt know how to react. The mother of course just thought this was so funny and adorable!
Our first 12 years of mental development are so important. And this is what parents are doing to kids minds! Making reality seem magical.
Narcisistic, artifical parents sowing the seeds to extremely artifical and narcisistic children.
Does this really ruin a child's mind, in your opinion?What disturbs me is when I hear stories like I heard the other day. Some husband and wife (the wife I work with) thought it was a good idea to make a home video that captured the real life Santa Clause doing his thing on Christmas eve. The next morning on christmas day, they showed their kids the video of what santa did the night before. To make things extra trippy for the kids, they filmed santa making his exit out the chimney by using that special effect where you stop recording for a brief second, and then start re-recording with Santa no longer in the frame. The effect is that Santa snaps his fingers and disappears out of thin air, with his magic. This woman I work with was telling her friends the story of her kids reaction. She said that her kids reaction wasnt really a happy and cheerful reaction, but the look on the kids faces was disturbed, shocked, exasperated - as if the laws of reality had become so violated before their eyes, that their brains didnt know how to react. The mother of course just thought this was so funny and adorable!
Our first 12 years of mental development are so important. And this is what parents are doing to kids minds! Making reality seem magical.
- Scott
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Cory Duchesne
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Scott wrote,
The Santa gimmick is only minor by itself. Lots of presents under the christmas tree will guarantee mediocrity as well.
Parents should be actively and consistently involved in the child's education - treating their children like they are potentially intelligent human beings, rather than generic cookie cutter, cutsey hallmark card images.
The role parents generally play in their childrens up-bringing is the opposite of education.
Maybe this is because education was always such a dreadful bore for the parents, and so the parents want the child to experience as much gratification as possible, before they have to enter the real world.
It might also be because the parents were the opposite of spoiled growing up -- in other words, neglected, abused, and rather poor financially.
So the parents, lacking good character due to a poor quality upbrining, become determined to give their child everything they wish they had as children.
In other words, the parents still have the minds of unhappy children - -they arent mature human beings, but rather they are, inwardly, lost children wanting cartoon like solutions to emotional problems.
The parents are also on a bit of a self-esteem trip - they are trying to be the 'best parents in the community', and so they go the extra lengths at pleasing the children.
You'll notice the most popular parent among a community of children is often the one always giving candy, always gratifying the children and corrupting them.
This is oppressive to the parents who are trying to be responsible. It puts them at odds and almost makes them seem like inhibitors to happiness.
There are parents who are genuinely going to try educating their children honestly, wholesomely and intelligently.
The children of the stupid parents are going to chatter excitedly, happy about something that intelligent parent disdains. The child of the intelligent parent ends up feeling frusterated, confused, alienated, perhaps envious, unable to relate to the stupid children, and so he ends up having an alienated and unhappy childhood.
However, if that is the case, then he has a better chance of living spiritually and whole-heartedly in adult hood.
Whereas, the exteremly gratified, spoiled children, will probably live empty lives as adults, and thus they will repeat the parasitic pattern that they were reared in - -- having kids only to use them as a means to fulfill the shallow, generic gratifications sold by the culture.
If you value going beyond the human condition, then most definitely. Treating children in such a way almost guarantees their mediocrity. When the parents trick the children into believing things that arent true, it makes the world seem inconsistent, amoral and irrational. By the time the children grow up to be teenagers, they are so lacking in a moral barometer, so lacking in intelligence, that they thoughtlessly start doing all sorts of irrational things without really understanding why they are making the choices they are making (drugs, alcohol, crap music, trendy-expenseive clothes).Does this really ruin a child's mind, in your opinion?
The Santa gimmick is only minor by itself. Lots of presents under the christmas tree will guarantee mediocrity as well.
Parents should be actively and consistently involved in the child's education - treating their children like they are potentially intelligent human beings, rather than generic cookie cutter, cutsey hallmark card images.
The role parents generally play in their childrens up-bringing is the opposite of education.
Maybe this is because education was always such a dreadful bore for the parents, and so the parents want the child to experience as much gratification as possible, before they have to enter the real world.
It might also be because the parents were the opposite of spoiled growing up -- in other words, neglected, abused, and rather poor financially.
So the parents, lacking good character due to a poor quality upbrining, become determined to give their child everything they wish they had as children.
In other words, the parents still have the minds of unhappy children - -they arent mature human beings, but rather they are, inwardly, lost children wanting cartoon like solutions to emotional problems.
The parents are also on a bit of a self-esteem trip - they are trying to be the 'best parents in the community', and so they go the extra lengths at pleasing the children.
You'll notice the most popular parent among a community of children is often the one always giving candy, always gratifying the children and corrupting them.
This is oppressive to the parents who are trying to be responsible. It puts them at odds and almost makes them seem like inhibitors to happiness.
There are parents who are genuinely going to try educating their children honestly, wholesomely and intelligently.
The children of the stupid parents are going to chatter excitedly, happy about something that intelligent parent disdains. The child of the intelligent parent ends up feeling frusterated, confused, alienated, perhaps envious, unable to relate to the stupid children, and so he ends up having an alienated and unhappy childhood.
However, if that is the case, then he has a better chance of living spiritually and whole-heartedly in adult hood.
Whereas, the exteremly gratified, spoiled children, will probably live empty lives as adults, and thus they will repeat the parasitic pattern that they were reared in - -- having kids only to use them as a means to fulfill the shallow, generic gratifications sold by the culture.
Last edited by Cory Duchesne on Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Do you honestly believe that cars do more to damage a childs mental and spiritual development, than Christmas and all the other bullshit that goes along with it?Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:A few days ago, the water shortage in Australia was important to Sue (as well it should be). How about the impact of pollution brought about by cars? Doesn't the hole in the ozone layer decrease children's chance of a life at all? One must have a life to have a life firmly grounded in reality. Recognizing the impact of pollution is an example of being firmly grounded in reality.
Cory,
I'm not disagreeing with this. But I'm of the opinion that there are much more pertinent issues that are constantly at hand. I'm not talking about cars.If you value going beyond the human condition, then most definitely. Treating children in such a way almost guarantees their mediocrity.
- Scott
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sue hindmarsh
- Posts: 1083
- Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:02 am
- Location: Sous Le Soleil
Cory wrote:
Your breakdown of parents into two categories: “stupid†and “intelligent†is obviously correct. Parents who are intelligent and thoughtful often understand the needs of their children much better than other less thoughtful parents do, and endeavour to provide them with a stable, caring, and stimulating upbringing. The children from these parents often grow into confident, emotionally stable, intelligent adults. This is relatively good for the community as a whole, and in many ways rewarding for the friends and acquaintances of these individuals. But this sadly doesn’t automatically cause them to become rational human beings.
Being 'intelligent' and 'thoughtful' in the worldly sense is a long way from being 'rational' in the philosophical sense. Whether the adult be stupid, or intelligent – if they crave happiness, they are also fostering irrationality. They spread this irrationality to other adults and children through the things they value. This means that an energetic, kind and thoughtful parent who celebrates Christmas inevitably harms their child’s development towards rationality, because Christmas is so obviously a celebration of lies and deception. They instill in the child the sense that it doesn’t matter how absurd, or false, or crass something may be – if it gives the slightest pleasure, or tinge of happiness – it is perfectly fine to throw oneself mindlessly into it. Not that they intentionally mean harm to their child – it’s just that they themselves aren’t rational enough to see that their hunger for happiness keeps them as mindlessness as the most stupid parent.
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To help foster rationality in a child, a parent obviously needs to be rational. They also need to provide the child with a safe, stable, calm environment to allow the child to develop to their potential. But, of course, there is no guarantee, even with such a good beginning, that a child will develop into a rational being – especially not whilst the world continues to overflow with irrationality.
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Sue
I think your phrase, “parents still have minds of unhappy childrenâ€, beautifully encapsulates the reason why irrationality rules most peoples lives. Parents/adults craving happiness makes them incapable of rational thought. Their minds are so driven by this desire that they are unaware of the effect they have on each other, or on children. No wonder the world is in the state it’s in – children being raised by other older, deeply unhappy children, doesn’t make for a very positive outcome.In other words, the parents still have the minds of unhappy children - -they arent mature human beings, but rather they are, inwardly, lost children wanting cartoon like solutions to emotional problems.
Your breakdown of parents into two categories: “stupid†and “intelligent†is obviously correct. Parents who are intelligent and thoughtful often understand the needs of their children much better than other less thoughtful parents do, and endeavour to provide them with a stable, caring, and stimulating upbringing. The children from these parents often grow into confident, emotionally stable, intelligent adults. This is relatively good for the community as a whole, and in many ways rewarding for the friends and acquaintances of these individuals. But this sadly doesn’t automatically cause them to become rational human beings.
Being 'intelligent' and 'thoughtful' in the worldly sense is a long way from being 'rational' in the philosophical sense. Whether the adult be stupid, or intelligent – if they crave happiness, they are also fostering irrationality. They spread this irrationality to other adults and children through the things they value. This means that an energetic, kind and thoughtful parent who celebrates Christmas inevitably harms their child’s development towards rationality, because Christmas is so obviously a celebration of lies and deception. They instill in the child the sense that it doesn’t matter how absurd, or false, or crass something may be – if it gives the slightest pleasure, or tinge of happiness – it is perfectly fine to throw oneself mindlessly into it. Not that they intentionally mean harm to their child – it’s just that they themselves aren’t rational enough to see that their hunger for happiness keeps them as mindlessness as the most stupid parent.
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To help foster rationality in a child, a parent obviously needs to be rational. They also need to provide the child with a safe, stable, calm environment to allow the child to develop to their potential. But, of course, there is no guarantee, even with such a good beginning, that a child will develop into a rational being – especially not whilst the world continues to overflow with irrationality.
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Sue
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David Quinn
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Carl G wrote:
At root, the core purpose of Christmas and Santa is to bribe children into becoming deeply attached to society's values and routines - bribe them materially with presents, and emotionally with the mysticism of Santa. It is effectively a brainwashing tool for turning people into uncomplaining workers/materialists/consumers/drones.
The routine of Christmas also helps keep adults from getting too restless and giving birth to rebellious thoughts. It comes around once a year with enough frequency to give people an outlet for their frustrations from work, and from their life in general, and refreshes them for another bout of hard-slog in the year ahead. The Santa-concept serves to impress this mind-numbing routine deep into children's brains before they have a chance to be aware of what is going on.
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I think you may be underestimating the power of Santa here. There are strong Christian/mystical connotations to the Santa we present to children. He is depicted as a magical, benevolent being who rewards children materially for their good behaviour. If you add to this the Christmas carols, family gatherings, and generally festive atmosphere, what you end up with is a strong religious myth which excels at absorbing children into the ordinary Christian/materialistic mindset at a young and tender age.Cars are just like Santa; Santa doesn't brainwash; it is the retailers, parents and peers creating the problem.
At root, the core purpose of Christmas and Santa is to bribe children into becoming deeply attached to society's values and routines - bribe them materially with presents, and emotionally with the mysticism of Santa. It is effectively a brainwashing tool for turning people into uncomplaining workers/materialists/consumers/drones.
The routine of Christmas also helps keep adults from getting too restless and giving birth to rebellious thoughts. It comes around once a year with enough frequency to give people an outlet for their frustrations from work, and from their life in general, and refreshes them for another bout of hard-slog in the year ahead. The Santa-concept serves to impress this mind-numbing routine deep into children's brains before they have a chance to be aware of what is going on.
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