The Importance of Chaos (a manifesto)

unwise · Post by **unwise** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:19 pm

I've started a little site that is basically for my motorcycle buddies. It's called 'The Blue Oprah Cult.' I put a little statement of philosophy up there tonight, and it dawned on me that you folks might enjoy it as well.

http://p075.ezboard.com/fbeautyintechno ... D=19.topic

Elizabeth Isabelle · Post by **Elizabeth Isabelle** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:06 pm

Do you realize that except for the mention of Oprah, you described the philosophy of The Church of Satan?

unwise · Post by **unwise** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:45 pm

Satan, of course, is a make-believe character. The Church of Satan is a joke - a sort of inside joke. Satan is the enemy of the priests, yes, I advocate rebellion against the priests.

If anyone is Satan, it is the ego. The subconscious is not the ego. Watch a child. They do all the things I talk about. All impulse, no ego. They respond in the moment without thought of good and bad and 'who am I.'

Elizabeth Isabelle · Post by **Elizabeth Isabelle** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:04 pm

unwise wrote:If anyone is Satan, it is the ego.

Yes, and that's close enough to what the COS says. You're making presumptions from a Christian perspective about what the COS might be - so you do not recognize that you are preaching their philosophy.

Much of the COS is about party while you're alive, enjoy life, have fun, celebrate yourself (the biggest holiday to a satanist is his own birthday), and do whatever you want as long as you don't get in trouble for it because getting in trouble isn't fun.

Funny you should mention rebellion against the priests, which I did not see in your website. COS ceremonies are pretty much all about making fun of Christian ceremonies - reading Bible passages backwards, annointing people with water from a phallic symbol, that kind of thing.

No, I am not a Satanist, nor have I ever been a Satanist. I did date a few Satanists who wanted me to understand their religion, but the only Satanic ritual I went to was the one when the guy I was dating at the time was being ordained as a Satanic priest. As a side note, one thing I noticed that most Satanists I've met have in common is that they were raised in very Christian homes by abusive Christians.

Anyway, I think you would fit right in with the Satanists. It's not an insult, it's an observation. They're really not such bad people, but mostly because they don't want to get in trouble and they want to do whatever will lead to fun - and they recognize that doing actually bad things leads to not-fun consequences.

Elizabeth Isabelle · Post by **Elizabeth Isabelle** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:09 pm

Here - this explains their philosophy first-hand:
Church of Satan

Tharan · Post by **Tharan** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:17 pm

unwise wrote:Watch a child. They do all the things I talk about. All impulse, no ego. They respond in the moment without thought of good and bad and 'who am I.'

Spoken like the absent father that I suspect you are. You understand nothing. Impulse IS ego.

It is true philosophical concepts such as "good and evil" are developed by SOME adults later in life. Conversely, some children develop it early. These illusions are not that difficult to imagine, especially when some adult starts hammering them into your brain at an early age.

But to think that children somehow function on anything OTHER THAN ego speaks only to your own lack vision beyond the surface; just like nearly everything else you do. In fact, the process of maturation is nothing more than beginning to see what is beyond your own nose.

There is a big world out there, unwise; many contradictory "facts." You ought to glance in its direction from time to time.

unwise · Post by **unwise** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:28 pm

Impulse IS ego.

If you are walking in the woods and suddenly surprised by a bear, you will have an IMPULSE to RUN. This is not ego. No ego is involved.

Spoken like the absent father that I suspect you are

Why do you always say hateful things like that? I am a great father. Fuck you; you are not worth talking to any longer.

Tharan · Post by **Tharan** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:37 pm

unwise wrote:
Impulse IS ego.
If you are walking in the woods and suddenly surprised by a bear, you will have an IMPULSE to RUN. This is not ego. No ego is involved.

Oh really? Then why run? Is there ego involved if you decide to stand firm?

Spoken like the absent father that I suspect you are
Why do you always say hateful things like that? I am a great father. Fuck you; you are not worth talking to any longer.

Haha, success! I knew that line would piss you off the moment I wrote it.

I don't hate you. I actually like you. An enlightened sage shouldn't be concerned with another's perceived hate.

Ryan Rudolph · Post by **Ryan Rudolph** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:27 pm

Unwise youâ€™re entire philosophy can be summarized by a song by Trooper called: Weâ€™re here for a good time not a long time. And I agree that this is the chaotic mindset of most of the population, however most of the population have not faced death, they have not ended the bodies attachments and addictions.

You seem to have pride over tendencies that you cannot stop doing. People who party are controlled by desires; the sage starves his desires through solitude and the complete abandonment of weak people. Wisdom is difficult to live; it requires discipline and a watchfulness in oneâ€™s daily life. Just because life is chaos does not mean that one should enjoy the chaos that everyone else is enjoying.

You're reasoning flaw is the is-ought fallacy. You assume that because most humans are sensual hedonists that it must be acceptable, moral and the okay thing to do. You're like a teenager on the playground deciding whether or not to smoke and the farthest your reasoning takes you is: well everyone's doing it so it must be okay.

Iâ€™m suggesting there is a different type of pleasure that comes through understanding and living the truth. Moreover the conventional morality of a society is almost always wrong with the exception of a few freak societies.

The chaotic conventional morality of American society represents the tendencies and desires that man must go beyond to achieve the superman. You are assuming that it cannot be done and I am suggesting that it can be done and this path is actually the divine destiny of the rational man.

A true sage ends up being a loner because his values are so contrary to human nature that no one one else can relate to him. He is like an alien. In affect the sage doesnt have motorcycle buddies. He's lucky if he has any friends at all, This is one of the reasons Nietzsche probably went insane - due to lack of relationship.

Basically the sage is a couple thousand years ahead of everyone else's psychological maturity.

unwise · Post by **unwise** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:08 pm

Ryan,

When I was a very young man, I was a Mormon Missionary. For a number of years I did not see TV or movies or went to the mall to shop. I did not drink or smoke. Took no drugs. Didn't even drink pop. I did not date girls or think about them. I did not even masturbate. Never did a swear word or a mean word ever pass my lips. I spent all day long, seven days a week meeting with people and talking about God. At night and early morning I meditated on God and read scriptures. I met with and talked to Buddhists, Hindus, Moonies, Baptists, Catholics, Born Again Christians and many many more. I had personally met with more types of people and deeply discussed their views by the time I was 21, then most people will think about in seven lifetimes.

The Mormon Missionaries with me were as I was. They were like angels among monsters. Most of you here, if not all, would not have qualified to be deemed worthy to be a missionary. The 'sages' here would not have qualified because a great deal of work and labor was required as well.

So, it is always interesting for me to receive a lecture from a zealot, as if I was born yesterday.

What I realized much later was that nothing had changed my ego. The ego has a bad smell. It is like a cancer. It doesn't care what sort of life you are living as long as it thinks it makes all the decisions and is a unique and special being.

You all still think you are special and unique beings who are capable of moving the entire universe and all planets by the power of your wisdom and sageocity.

Satan and I laugh at you.

I represent a way out of this hell. This hell can be abandoned at any time no matter what you are doing. It is not you who is doing anything.

Elizabeth Isabelle · Post by **Elizabeth Isabelle** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:28 pm

unwise wrote:You all still think you are special and unique beings who are capable of moving the entire universe and all planets by the power of your wisdom and sageocity.

Satan and I laugh at you.

I represent a way out of this hell.

So you think you are special and unique by being the one who represents a way out of this "hell" of wisdom and sagacity, through "unwise" hedonistic pleasures. Spoken like a true Satanist.

Ryan Rudolph · Post by **Ryan Rudolph** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:54 pm

Unwise wrote:

The Mormon Missionaries with me were as I was. They were like angels among monsters. Most of you here, if not all, would not have qualified to be deemed worthy to be a missionary. The 'sages' here would not have qualified because a great deal of work and labor was required as well.

Many of the thinkers here still practice the discipline you practiced while attending the Mormon missionaries. The only difference is that we have not given up.

Unwise wrote:

What I realized much later was that nothing had changed my ego. The ego has a bad smell. It is like a cancer. It doesn't care what sort of life you are living as long as it thinks it makes all the decisions and is a unique and special being.

The behaviors of the ego are like a cancer, but that doesnâ€™t mean that it is impossible to be free from the egoâ€™s ways.

I think you have just given up in favor of the party life. The life is the sage is too much work for you, youâ€™d rather enjoy worldly pleasures with weak ignorant people.

Unwise wrote:

You all still think you are special and unique beings who are capable of moving the entire universe and all planets by the power of your wisdom and sageocity.

Each entity is unique. I enjoy having truthful conversations with people who are interested in living honest logically straight lives, that is why I come here so when I see someone speaking dishonestly I challenge them, it is a knee jerk response, I donâ€™t care if anybody ever changes and I actually realize how futile it is to try to change the world. I am only one simple man interested in living a life with the lowest amount of suffering possible.

And that is why I dont spread values that cause suffering to other people. Why spread sensual hedonism when one perceives how much damage it does in the world. You are advising people to become drug addicts, and genetically conditioned victims.

We lose our freedom with sensual hedonism. My father doesnâ€™t choose to gamble or smoke or drink alcohol; he is controlled by anxiety and genetically conditioned responses.

Why do you support such a thing Unwise? Surely the chaos is something for humanity to overcome?

unwise · Post by **unwise** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:41 am

So you think you are special and unique by being the one who represents a way out of this "hell" of wisdom and sagacity, through "unwise" hedonistic pleasures. Spoken like a true Satanist.

When I say 'I', it is not the same I as you who are attached to name and form. You think you are your name. The QVC shames you until you post your birth name. Well, that is not the real you at all. The name is not important in the least. I do not use a name because I have no name. I don't want to be known or bothered or published. I don't want to be considered some sort of 'sage.' I don't want someone to think I am wise and pious and come to my website using my birth name. I was not born, so how can I use a name?

You are all so attached to name and form that you do not understand the import of what I am saying. YOU do not decide what you are going to do and what your circumstances are going to be. You should not judge others in how they live their lives. You should not feel superior. All of your attempts to be pious will get you exactly the same thing it gives all the preachers in America - NOTHING.

As I have said a million times - YOU DON'T HAVE TO CHANGE ANYTHING TO BE WHAT YOU ARE. You are already free. You are already me. You are already god. When did you cease being god? Don't you understand that all is god? Who are you to tell god how to live?

Elizabeth Isabelle · Post by **Elizabeth Isabelle** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:10 am

If chaos were a good idea, then why would so many people be drawn to wanting things to be in order?

sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:59 am

When I say 'I', it is not the same I as you who are attached to name and form. You think you are your name. The QVC shames you until you post your birth name. Well, that is not the real you at all. The name is not important in the least. I do not use a name because I have no name. I don't want to be known or bothered or published. I don't want to be considered some sort of 'sage.' I don't want someone to think I am wise and pious and come to my website using my birth name. I was not born, so how can I use a name?

What do you have to sign on your checks? THAT'S your name, buddy.

I guess you can do whatever you want, but when I'm trying to make a spiritual point, I try to keep it real. I prefer honesty....I think most others here do as well, and that's why you're the outcast you are. Because your posts reek of dishonesty.

Here's a self enquiry for you: who is doing the typing?

You are all so attached to name and form that you do not understand the import of what I am saying. YOU do not decide what you are going to do and what your circumstances are going to be. You should not judge others in how they live their lives. You should not feel superior. All of your attempts to be pious will get you exactly the same thing it gives all the preachers in America - NOTHING.

I think everyone here realizes this. At least I do...and I think it's funny you feel the need to say it, because it's so blatantly obvious.

It's like someone pointing to the sky and saying ..."LOOK, it's the sky!"

Duh.

As I have said a million times - YOU DON'T HAVE TO CHANGE ANYTHING TO BE WHAT YOU ARE. You are already free. You are already me. You are already god. When did you cease being god? Don't you understand that all is god? Who are you to tell god how to live?

When I was enlightened, to your degree, I thought the same things. Then I decided I'd stop using the word "God" to describe myself/reality. It's too dishonest. I also thought I should probably stop whining and moaning about what unenlightened people do since we're all free already. I also realized that thinking such things is useless since it's not truly me who is thinking, and it's just a mirage altogether...which disappears upon closer inspection. In fact, all things are mirages which seem to disappear with a sharp enough focus.

Do I understand that all is God? Well since all is God...do I have to? Would it make a difference?